UConn/ACC

[Huskybite]

Well, these two standards can't both be right, since they are so wildly divergent.

The strength of an institution is unfortunately measured in two distinct ways, which can muddy the conversation. Undergraduate admissions which USN&WR base their "analyses" on are focused on GPA, SAT data as well as bullshit self-congratulatory reputation profile. AAU pertains to graduate research/grant monies which usually reflects the strength of the graduate programs. The latter is a far superior measure of the overall strength of the institution. As the cliche implies, no one ever asks their doctor where they went to college, because by the time you're in graduate school, you're all equal and it's the graduate program(s) that will define you.

 

[chitown76]

UConn will have a home I think its in the big . I look at the total body of work not just athletics but academics as well. I'm a big fan but all I want is for UConn to have a home and not be pushed out. If it's in the big that would be awesome but if its in the ACC then I would say congratulations and good luck a basketball tournament would not be the same without UConn involved and UConn has earned the right to be in the power 5 its a crime they are not in yet. There is only two directions that the big can move in they did not set up shop in NYC for just Rutgers. UConn seals up the northeast for either the big or acc hopefully the big

 

[btstimpy]

Geez. Not a terribly thrilling endorsement from the Syracuse person interviewed either.

Strange, I would have expected a ringing endorsement from a Syracuse blogger. Those guys have a hard on for Rutgers that a cat couldn't scratch.[/QUOTE]
Why would Syracuse fans be concerned about Rutgers? Maybe they are. I would think they would view UConn as more of a rival due to basketball.

 

[chitown76]

The next round of expansion will bring UConn into the power 5

 

[ArizonaKnight]

Strange, I would have expected a ringing endorsement from a Syracuse blogger. Those guys have a hard on for Rutgers that a cat couldn't scratch.

Why would Syracuse fans be concerned about Rutgers? Maybe they are. I would think they would view UConn as more of a rival due to basketball.[/QUOTE]

(I have no intent on starting any pissing match with Cuse here)

They were used to beating Rutgers for decades until recently when we became competitive and won 7 of the last 10 meetings. They claim to not care about Rutgers yet they needed to create a single dedicated Rutgers thread on their board because at any given time there were always several Rutgers related threads on the first page. That thread has remained on the first page despite not being pinned and has over 1,100 responses.

In the interest of fairness, we don't like Syracuse either.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

There is a museum with display cases on the side of the Nebraska Cornhusker Stadium that has that trophy in it. The front door to get in there is right on the road that runs by the Stadium. You'll need to sneak into it and break the glass on that case to steal that trophy if you want to count it for Joe Paterno. Tom Osborne thinks it belongs to him at the moment.

Both Penn State and Nebraska finished that season 13-0. Penn State led the polls through the first couple of weeks of the season. Then a couple of reporters accused Penn State of running up the score. In the Indiana game, Paterno called off the dogs early and the Hoosiers scored a couple of late TDs making the game seem closer than it was. The next week, Nebraska was #1. Osborne learned Paterno's lesson never risking his ranking due to score differential.

I think it was after that season that someone asked Paterno about Nebraska's "championship." Joe said he was thinking of hanging a banner in Happy Valley declaring Penn State champion. After all, he noted, it was only somebody's opinion and his opinion was as valid as theirs.

Wasn't it the 2006 season that Michigan and Ohio State battled for the opportunity to play in the "championship" game or whatever it was called? Season ended with Ohio State #1 and Michigan #2 in whatever that mish-mash of polls and computer rankings was that determined who was raked where. Then the SEC held a title game while the Big Ten sat home idle. When Florida won, Urban Meyer, Florida, and the entire SEC lobbied the pollsters that Michigan didn't deserve a spot in the "title game" because Ohio State had already beaten them (of course they had no problem a few years later when Alabama and LSU played a second time). Pollsters pushed idle Michigan down. Yes, I know Florida won. Makes what the BCS was doing even more ludicrous.

In other words, the entire notion that polls determine a champion is a fraud unworthy of the concept of champion. Why even play the games? Just set a schedule and let the pollsters vote on who wins the games. Anyway, I polled myself and Joe Paterno about who won the 1994 championship and it was Penn State. Nebraska won a vote, not a championship.

 

[btstimpy]

Both Penn State and Nebraska finished that season 13-0. Penn State led the polls through the first couple of weeks of the season. Then a couple of reporters accused Penn State of running up the score. In the Indiana game, Paterno called off the dogs early and the Hoosiers scored a couple of late TDs making the game seem closer than it was. The next week, Nebraska was #1. Osborne learned Paterno's lesson never risking his ranking due to score differential.

I think it was after that season that someone asked Paterno about Nebraska's "championship." Joe said he was thinking of hanging a banner in Happy Valley declaring Penn State champion. After all, he noted, it was only somebody's opinion and his opinion was as valid as theirs.

Wasn't it the 2006 season that Michigan and Ohio State battled for the opportunity to play in the "championship" game or whatever it was called? Season ended with Ohio State #1 and Michigan #2 in whatever that mish-mash of polls and computer rankings was that determined who was raked where. Then the SEC held a title game while the Big Ten sat home idle. When Florida won, Urban Meyer, Florida, and the entire SEC lobbied the pollsters that Michigan didn't deserve a spot in the "title game" because Ohio State had already beaten them (of course they had no problem a few years later when Alabama and LSU played a second time). Pollsters pushed idle Michigan down. Yes, I know Florida won. Makes what the BCS was doing even more ludicrous.

In other words, the entire notion that polls determine a champion is a fraud unworthy of the concept of champion. Why even play the games? Just set a schedule and let the pollsters vote on who wins the games. Anyway, I polled myself and Joe Paterno about who won the 1994 championship and it was Penn State.

I hear you and am glad we now have a playoff. I hope it gets increased to have 8 participants as soon as possible. Then we'll have the dispute over the bubble teams just like in basketball, but the champion won't be in dispute.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I hear you and am glad we now have a playoff. I hope it gets increased to have 8 participants as soon as possible. Then we'll have the dispute over the bubble teams just like in basketball, but the champion won't be in dispute.

Couldn't agree more, stimpy. As long as they (eventually) invite enough teams that one of the bubble teams never so much as sniffs a title game, let alone wins one, I can live with whatever griping teams that weren't going to win anyway produce.

 

[upstater]

I hear you and am glad we now have a playoff. I hope it gets increased to have 8 participants as soon as possible. Then we'll have the dispute over the bubble teams just like in basketball, but the champion won't be in dispute.

The 1994 championship is undisputed in the AP/UPI. It's also undisputed in other polls, like the NYT which has PSU in front.

In the AP Poll, Penn State actually dropped to #2 after a 63-14 rout of Ohio State.

 

[UConnJim]

Neither Nebraska nor Penn State has won a football national championship as a member of the B1G. They both won them before being part of the B1G, but having that conference bring them both down to mediocrity due to scheduling and declining recruiting territory has and will prevent it. You could say the same about Miami and the ACC, but coaching and sanctions have been more of Miami's problem than conference. They have a better shot of returning to power due to their access to recruiting territory.

I agree with most of this. In the B1G, I think Ohio St and Penn St have the best chances of consistently competing for a football championship. Why? They have fertile natural recruiting territories, really good coaches, as well as great fan support. When Penn St is back to form, and they will be under Franklin and with sanctions rolling off, all this talk of the B1G being a weak conference will subside. There is no real decline of the B1G as only Ohio St and Michigan were ever national powers in the modern era (pre-Penn St and Nebraska).

I think it will be hard, even with great fan support, for Nebraska and Michigan to be consistent contenders. Nebraska's past football history is almost impossible to replicate. They really never had natural advantages like proximity to recruits or an attractive location, which makes what Nebraska did in the past so extraordinary. Michigan has to grab recruits from outside of Michigan which puts them at a disadvantage. With the right coach, they can be consistently good, but I think they will have a hard time competing for football championships. Still, Nebraska and Michigan are two upper echelon football programs.

In the ACC, I really only see Florida St being a consistent contender. I's skeptical that Miami can get back to their glory days, although the fertile recruiting around Miami makes it a possibility. I just think that Miami will not return to the "good old days" and run an undisciplined program, especially under Donna Shalala. The main driver for Miami going to the ACC was to take the pressure off the football team having to win.

 

[billybud]

I think that Miami can come back (they won 9 games last year). They have some athletes and can recruit strong talent, but have not yet put together the complete components necessary for a strong run...a great QB, a good O line, and a strong defense.

 

[btstimpy]

I agree with most of this. In the B1G, I think Ohio St and Penn St have the best chances of consistently competing for a football championship. Why? They have fertile natural recruiting territories, really good coaches, as well as great fan support. When Penn St is back to form, and they will be under Franklin and with sanctions rolling off, all this talk of the B1G being a weak conference will subside. There is no real decline of the B1G as only Ohio St and Michigan were ever national powers in the modern era (pre-Penn St and Nebraska).

I think it will be hard, even with great fan support, for Nebraska and Michigan to be consistent contenders. Nebraska's past football history is almost impossible to replicate. They really never had natural advantages like proximity to recruits or an attractive location, which makes what Nebraska did in the past so extraordinary. Michigan has to grab recruits from outside of Michigan which puts them at a disadvantage. With the right coach, they can be consistently good, but I think they will have a hard time competing for football championships. Still, Nebraska and Michigan are two upper echelon football programs.

In the ACC, I really only see Florida St being a consistent contender. I's skeptical that Miami can get back to their glory days, although the fertile recruiting around Miami makes it a possibility. I just think that Miami will not return to the "good old days" and run an undisciplined program, especially under Donna Shalala. The main driver for Miami going to the ACC was to take the pressure off the football team having to win.

I agree that Ohio State and Penn State have the best access to recruiting in the Big Ten and can stay at the top (i.e Ohio State) and return to the top (i.e. Penn State). Michigan and Nebraska are big brands based on past success, and they can compete nationally for talent, but their access to it locally will really wane over time. They can still do it, but it will become increasingly difficult. I wouldn't want to be in the Big Ten West. Recruiting will be a bear for those coaches.

Miami will have access to talent, but they have work to do with facilities. The facilities at Florida State and Florida have moved well ahead of what Miami can show the top kids. They have to recruit on reputation and with coaches and proximity in south florida. Louisville with Charlie Strong has been stealing a lot of their kids using the sanctions thing against Miami. I think Miami can recover somewhat from that now that the sanctions have been determined. Louisville and Miami will have an instant rivalry for a few years due to all the kids knowing each other on both teams from high school. The new Louisville coach might have to recruit a different territory going forward.

 

[upstater]

I agree that Ohio State and Penn State have the best access to recruiting in the Big Ten and can stay at the top (i.e Ohio State) and return to the top (i.e. Penn State). Michigan and Nebraska are big brands based on past success, and they can compete nationally for talent, but their access to it locally will really wane over time. They can still do it, but it will become increasingly difficult. I wouldn't want to be in the Big Ten West. Recruiting will be a bear for those coaches.

Miami will have access to talent, but they have work to do with facilities. The facilities at Florida State and Florida have moved well ahead of what Miami can show the top kids. They have to recruit on reputation and with coaches and proximity in south florida. Louisville with Charlie Strong has been stealing a lot of their kids using the sanctions thing against Miami. I think Miami can recover somewhat from that now that the sanctions have been determined. Louisville and Miami will have an instant rivalry for a few years due to all the kids knowing each other on both teams from high school. The new Louisville coach might have to recruit a different territory going forward.

Michigan is a huge school with lots of resources, and unlike Penn State, Michigan recruits nationally. And it has never hurt them. Bad coaching hurts them, but not recruiting. Their average class in the last decade is somewhere around #10. They finished #6, #7, #10, #13, #16 going back 5 years. I can't think of any recruiting dynamic that has changed so much in the last 10 years.

 

[btstimpy]

Michigan is a huge school with lots of resources, and unlike Penn State, Michigan recruits nationally. And it has never hurt them. Bad coaching hurts them, but not recruiting. Their average class in the last decade is somewhere around #10. They finished #6, #7, #10, #13, #16 going back 5 years. I can't think of any recruiting dynamic that has changed so much in the last 10 years.

Yes. Michigan and Notre Dame recruit nationally. They have to. There just isn't enough talent locally like there is for Ohio State and Penn State. Nebraska will have to recruit nationally too, and they have lost a bit by not having any presence in front of Texas kids anymore.

 

[ArizonaKnight]

Yes. Michigan and Notre Dame recruit nationally. They have to. There just isn't enough talent locally like there is for Ohio State and Penn State. Nebraska will have to recruit nationally too, and they have lost a bit by not having any presence in front of Texas kids anymore.

I am no Michigan apologist but we should all have their recruiting issues. This year they have 8 commits so far, throw out the kicker and 6 of the remaining 7 players are 4-star recruits.

 

[Ldandy]

The 1994 championship is undisputed in the AP/UPI. It's also undisputed in other polls, like the NYT which has PSU in front.

In the AP Poll, Penn State actually dropped to #2 after a 63-14 rout of Ohio State.

The sad part about 94 was that the country was robbed of a potentially epic game, all because of how screwed up conference politics were. In my completely biased opinion I still believe that PSU would have blown the doors off the Huskers that year. Unfortunately we'll never know, but should anyone on that team want to claim a championship for 94 there is no reason they shouldn't IMO. It's a shame the Midwestern + Pittsburgh Medias could not see past their own petty jealousy, as we would have had a great shot to at least split the polls.

 

[NickyNewark]

That Penn State fan seems thrilled. Geez. Not a terribly thrilling endorsement from the Syracuse person interviewed either.

What did you expect from an jealous SU fan? You should know as a member in good standing there for many years now! Fact is if offered Cuse would JUMP at a B1G offer....just a routine sour grape post....you could find MANY contrarian views if you werent so biased and arrogant stimpycuse!!

 

[NickyNewark]

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...g-ten-football-basketball-penn-state-syracuse

hmmm you seem obsessed with the one team without ACC interest...funny how a team so irrelevant gets so much interest by you guys that work as a team in the weakest of the so called P5 or really 4 and espins baby.From guys who claim to be so erudite what did you expect from a "fluff" piece? I think PSU pushed to include RU but that wouldnt fit you're agenda I guess!?!

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Do me a favor. List all the schools that you believe would "JUMP at a B1G offer" and, chances are, I or somebody can argue against it. I know UConn would take any offer to a P5 conference, so that's a given. To start with...

Syracuse

Basketball rivalries with UNC, Duke, UVA, BC, Pitt, Louisville. Football games in Atlanta, Miami, Raleigh, Blacksburg, South Bend, Louisville, Tallahassee. Plus ACC/B1G Challenge and renewed games vs Georgetown

vs.

Football with name programs like Michigan and 6 or 7 programs located in relatively scarce local recruiting grounds. Good competitive basketball but struggle in the NCAA.


Advantage

Recruiting up and down the East and Southeast in football and basketball tilts it in the ACC's favor.

 

[pj]

Are you kidding, Syracuse would sell upstate New York for an extra $5 million per year.

 

[upstater]

Do me a favor. List all the schools that you believe would "JUMP at a B1G offer" and, chances are, I or somebody can argue against it. I know UConn would take any offer to a P5 conference, so that's a given. To start with...

Syracuse

Basketball rivalries with UNC, Duke, UVA, BC, Pitt, Louisville. Football games in Atlanta, Miami, Raleigh, Blacksburg, South Bend, Louisville, Tallahassee. Plus ACC/B1G Challenge and renewed games vs Georgetown

vs.

Football with name programs like Michigan and 6 or 7 programs located in relatively scarce local recruiting grounds. Good competitive basketball but struggle in the NCAA.


Advantage

Recruiting up and down the East and Southeast in football and basketball tilts it in the ACC's favor.

$$$ is in the B1G's favor. Recruiting is not a big factor since UConn will get the best of its football recruits locally (i.e. New England, New York) either way, then look for gems in places like Georgia, Florida, Maryland, just like it's doing right now.

As for basketball, the addition of UConn sends either league over the top in that sport. UConn makes the B1G the best. Better than the ACC. And if some some absurd reason the B1G added Kansas too, it's game over for the ACC.

Top tier:
UConn v. Duke
Kansas v. North Carolina
Michigan St. v. Louisville

Second tier:
Indiana v. Syracuse
Michigan v. NC State
Ohio State v. Virginia
Maryland v. Pittsburgh

Third tier:
Wisconsin v. Notre Dame
Illinois v. Wake Forest
Minnesota v. Georgia Tech
Purdue v. Florida St.
Iowa v. Miami, Fla.
Nebraska v. Clemson
Penn State v. Boston College
Rutgers v. Virginia Tech
Northwestern v.

The first 3 are a PUSH.
The 2nd and 3rd tier are dominated by the B1G.

 

[ArizonaKnight]

vs.

Football with name programs like Michigan and 6 or 7 programs located in relatively scarce local recruiting grounds. Good competitive basketball but struggle in the NCAA.

I'm sure Syracuse is happy but let's be a little honest in our comparisons. A B1G Eastern Football division containing Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State and Michigan blows away any combo the ACC could cobble together even if you pretend that ND is a real member. It's not close.

 

[btstimpy]

What did you expect from an jealous SU fan? You should know as a member in good standing there for many years now! Fact is if offered Cuse would JUMP at a B1G offer....just a routine sour grape post....you could find MANY contrarian views if you werent so biased and arrogant stimpycuse!!

Syracuse may have JUMPED at a B1G offer two to three years ago, but I don't believe that they would now. There was once a concern about being a northern school in a southern league, but now that they have played all throughout the ACC footprint, they have bought into the ACC pretty strong. Daryl Gross is all over this ACC thing. He's also about playing in big media markets like Boston, New York, DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Miami. He sounds a lot like Jack Swarbrick of Notre Dame when he talks about it. The ACC provides it.

 

[itgoeslike]

When it comes to basketball, UConn is the tipping point for either conference. The real difference (aside from the obvious gap in TV revenue) is football. UConn knows how well Virginia, NC State, North Carolina, Syracuse, PITT, and Louisville football draws. However, after witnessing the energy of Michigan playing at the Rent, it is easy to see how a steady diet of Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Nebraska would be a catalyst for generating interest in football. Interest in ACC football (aside from a rare appearance by ND or FSU) would only generate an incremental bump by comparison.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

$ is in the B1G's favor. Recruiting is not a big factor since UConn will get the best of its football recruits locally (i.e. New England, New York) either way, then look for gems in places like Georgia, Florida, Maryland, just like it's doing right now.

As for basketball, the addition of UConn sends either league over the top in that sport. UConn makes the B1G the best. Better than the ACC. And if some some absurd reason the B1G added Kansas too, it's game over for the ACC.

Top tier:
UConn v. Duke
Kansas v. North Carolina
Michigan St. v. Louisville

Second tier:
Indiana v. Syracuse
Michigan v. NC State
Ohio State v. Virginia
Maryland v. Pittsburgh

Third tier:
Wisconsin v. Notre Dame
Illinois v. Wake Forest
Minnesota v. Georgia Tech
Purdue v. Florida St.
Iowa v. Miami, Fla.
Nebraska v. Clemson
Penn State v. Boston College
Rutgers v. Virginia Tech
Northwestern v.

The first 3 are a PUSH.
The 2nd and 3rd tier are dominated by the B1G.

This is just an educated guess but in the case of the BXII disintegrating the B1G might well take Kansas but the Midwest schools may push for Mizzou to placate fans who were irate about the conference taking some East schools. The SEC would then replace Mizzou with West Virginia. That would be good news for UConn since WVU would be the main threat for the ACC's #16 spot.

 

[billybud]

A map of the 2014 ACC Rosters vs Hometowns of recruits.

1...not much recruiting to the west of Georgia.....east coast all of the way.

2...the Baltimore-New Jersey corridor is well represented

 

[billybud]

The Big Ten map of 2014 Rosters/Hometowns of Recruits

 

[RegisteredUconn]

$ is in the B1G's favor. Recruiting is not a big factor since UConn will get the best of its football recruits locally (i.e. New England, New York) either way, then look for gems in places like Georgia, Florida, Maryland, just like it's doing right now.

As for basketball, the addition of UConn sends either league over the top in that sport. UConn makes the B1G the best. Better than the ACC. And if some some absurd reason the B1G added Kansas too, it's game over for the ACC.

Top tier:
UConn v. Duke
Kansas v. North Carolina
Michigan St. v. Louisville

Second tier:
Indiana v. Syracuse
Michigan v. NC State
Ohio State v. Virginia
Maryland v. Pittsburgh

Third tier:
Wisconsin v. Notre Dame
Illinois v. Wake Forest
Minnesota v. Georgia Tech
Purdue v. Florida St.
Iowa v. Miami, Fla.
Nebraska v. Clemson
Penn State v. Boston College
Rutgers v. Virginia Tech
Northwestern v.

The first 3 are a PUSH.
The 2nd and 3rd tier are dominated by the B1G.

How did Wisconsin make it into the 3rd tier?

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Syracuse may have JUMPED at a B1G offer two to three years ago, but I don't believe that they would now. There was once a concern about being a northern school in a southern league, but now that they have played all throughout the ACC footprint, they have bought into the ACC pretty strong. Daryl Gross is all over this ACC thing. He's also about playing in big media markets like Boston, New York, DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Miami. He sounds a lot like Jack Swarbrick of Notre Dame when he talks about it. The ACC provides it.

I don't think Syracuse would jump either. I think that, like Miami, they may have developed a "fear of success." They know how much effort is involved in competing at the NCAA's highest levels and they're worried they no longer have the resources and the will. They were shopping for a sugar daddy and Swoffie unzipped.

 

[billybud]

I think that map puts Wis/Minnesota together (on the border)...

1...Minnesota has 56 from Minnesota/Wis on their roster

2...Wisconsin has 53 from Wis/Minnesota on their roster