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UConn/ACC

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NickyNewark said:
I love reading you're posts. These ACC guys have a arrogant way of telling us they want us in the ACC BUT somehow they don't see UConn, a large state flagbearing state school in the B1G!?! What? I heard the same BS about RU UNTIL they were there then they'll say well only because Cuse and Pitt were off the board...WHAT PSU was gonna let Pitt in? Cuse knew they were never gonna get into the B1G so(facesaving) fled before it became a reality when the B1G made their move on RU/Md and if not for BC/Cuse you guys would have been Md's replacement.We RU fans figured it was a "done deal"UConn to ACC"...ahh politics and jealousy...a heady potion!! I'm living for the day it becomes the new reality(UConn is B1G) to see their arrogant ACC faces!!
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Ask Penn State fans how they were treated during those first years they were playing Big Ten teams

Ask the midwestern fans how they feel about playing the basketball tournaments in the Eastern cities

Ask them how they feel about Maryland and Rutgers in "their" conference

Or are you going to say that those are figments of my imagination.

If you think we ACC'ers are arrogant, they really believe that the Big Ten should only remain centered in the Midwest, even though they've been losing football players to the South for decades. Yes, they aren't really losing population but their growth rates have been miniscule compared to other regions. You may want to check the US Census data if you think I'm not telling the truth. Even worse is there are less and less football players growing up in that region because of 1) concentration on other sports 2) parents becoming too jittery about letting their kids play football.

The funny thing is that these fans still expect a high quality football league. Where the hell are you going to find players from? How can you have a football program without football players? Even Einstein can't figure that one out!

That's the real reason why Delany and the presidents brought you in. NJ still has decent high school programs. But they've been mined over and over again by programs not only in the East but by programs down the coast as well.

The Big Ten should just accept reality that they won't be a great conference in football in the future and concentrate on becoming the best in other sports like basketball, hockey, women's sports, etc.. But the ACC is already working hard to remain competitive in those sports as well (except for hockey, since we don't sponsor it). That's why UConn is a better fit for the ACC than the Big Ten. They've proven that they can compete with the resources they've been given. I doubt we'd see expansion for the next ten years but if we then have to expand again I would prefer UConn as the first candidate.

Yes, be grateful that somebody brought you into the P5 but don't stand there and act like you're great shakes. It's the state of NJ much more than the school in it. It's up to your program to make the most of the new opportunity. Let us worry about Pitt and Syracuse. You have to worry about Ohio State and Iowa fans thinking you don't belong.
 
upstater said:
As for USNews, we've gone into this before quite a few times, and they base most of their rankings on a reputational questionnaire filled out by university presidents. Florida State's pres. completed one and its available on the internet. He has Ivy League schools in the 3rd tier with his former place of work top ranked. It's a joke. This is why you have AAU schools ranked 150 and schools with meager resources like Clemson ranked 5o-70. no one in their right minds would agree with a ranking like that. Just for kicks, look at Reed College's ranking. This school is acknowledged universally as one of the top 10-15 liberal arts schools in the entire country. They have them way way down. It's a joke.

And by the way, here's another ridiculous metric that you probably tout: APR. You're probably one of these people that think the APR has something to do with graduation from a university.
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I don't know if USNWR rankings are worth the TP they are printed on, but they do seem to be a popular ranking standard, just as the AAU is. Because the ACC does well regarding with respect to the USNWR rankings, it is no surprise they tout it on their website. Of course, the Big Ten does well regarding AAU, so they are able to emphasize that. The question is, which is more relevant when it comes to undergraduate student-athletes? The answer is neither. When I was at Maryland, they rejected on of the top high school recruits because of poor academics. However, Georgetown accepted him. I think he graduated, and he did quite well in the NBA as it turned out. Further, we all have heard reports where many of UNC student-athletes were accepted that who couldn't pass eighth grade standards. How could UNC's USNWR or other rankings possibly be relevant if this is true?
 
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upstater said:
USC, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. All these schools went through it. Florida St. recovered quickly. But the other schools on the list, like Oklahoma and USC and Alabama aren't slouches.
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Exactly, you're proving my point. Alabama and Oklahoma were down for shorter periods than the recent Michigan/Nebraska drought. Yes, USC's pre-Carroll drought is similar to the recent Michigan/Nebraska drought (and, boy, did they hire some bad coaches in that time), but their recruiting grounds (like Alabama and Oklahoma) are much stronger than Michigan's or Nebraska's.

Further, regarding "coaching":
Who rebuilt Alabama most recently? A coach two stops removed from Michigan State, who never attained that success at Michigan State.
Who rebuilt Oklahoma most recently? A coach with deep Ohio roots who began his coaching at Iowa.

Yes, Bill O'Brien did a fine job reassembling Penn State; did you read some of his parting comments?

Bret Bielema had a done a fine job at Wisconsin (succeeding the closest thing Wisconsin has to "legend"), but never achieved ultimate success there, and left because Wisconsin wouldn't pay his coaches at the level of the SEC.

I am impressed with Mark Dantonio at Michigan State. It will be interesting to see their future/his future. And, by "going to the dark side", Ohio State will continue winning many games on the gridiron after bringing local boy back home after his stint within the Evil Empire. Whether that translates into national championships remains to be seen.

The B1G has had great coaches, but they are not always able to keep them nor attract "the best" replacements.
 
clmssun said:
Exactly, you're proving my point. Alabama and Oklahoma were down for shorter periods than the recent Michigan/Nebraska drought. Yes, USC's pre-Carroll drought is similar to the recent Michigan/Nebraska drought (and, boy, did they hire some bad coaches in that time), but their recruiting grounds (like Alabama and Oklahoma) are much stronger than Michigan's or Nebraska's.

Further, regarding "coaching":
Who rebuilt Alabama most recently? A coach two stops removed from Michigan State, who never attained that success at Michigan State.
Who rebuilt Oklahoma most recently? A coach with deep Ohio roots who began his coaching at Iowa.

Yes, Bill O'Brien did a fine job reassembling Penn State; did you read some of his parting comments?

Bret Bielema had a done a fine job at Wisconsin (succeeding the closest thing Wisconsin has to "legend"), but never achieved ultimate success there, and left because Wisconsin wouldn't pay his coaches at the level of the SEC.

I am impressed with Mark Dantonio at Michigan State. It will be interesting to see their future/his future. And, by "going to the dark side", Ohio State will continue winning many games on the gridiron after bringing local boy back home after his stint within the Evil Empire. Whether that translates into national championships remains to be seen.

The B1G has had great coaches, but they are not always able to keep them nor attract "the best" replacements.
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1992 to 2009 is a very long period for Alabama football. In fact, Alabama won just one championship over that 30 year period.

USC was as bad. Oklahoma went 15 seasons between championships. They are on another 13 year streak right now, so one championship in 28 years. This compares with PSU whose last championship caliber team was in 1994. They've gone 19 years. Paterno ran it into the ground.

By the way, there is nothing really wrong with James Franklin's recruiting. Have a look.

Ohio State too has looked really decent after Cooper left.
 
Pat125 said:
I don't know if USNWR rankings are worth the TP they are printed on, but they do seem to be a popular ranking standard, just as the AAU is.
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Well, these two standards can't both be right, since they are so wildly divergent.
 
upstater said:
1992 to 2009 is a very long period for Alabama football. In fact, Alabama won just one championship over that 30 year period.
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Be careful treading in those waters; the B1G looks atrocious through those lenses.

upstater said:
USC was as bad.
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For the second time, I agree with you about USC.

upstater said:
Oklahoma went 15 seasons between championships. They are on another 13 year streak right now, so one championship in 28 years.
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Oklahoma still won a BCS bowl last year, had a conference co-championship the year before. But, yes, there is a significant faction of Sooners that is not happy.

upstater said:
This compares with PSU whose last championship caliber team was in 1994. They've gone 19 years. Paterno ran it into the ground.
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There are many perspectives I could argue, but I agree with your statement.

upstater said:
By the way, there is nothing really wrong with James Franklin's recruiting. Have a look.
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Franklin is an incredible recruiter, no argument there. It will interesting to watch his Penn State team develop.

upstater said:
Ohio State too has looked really decent after Cooper left.
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Yes, Ohio State (unlike the rest of the B1G) plays much of the "SEC" game, and hiring coaches like Tressell and Meyer pays dividends.
 
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upstater said:
Well, these two standards can't both be right, since they are so wildly divergent.
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They are definitely divergent, but it is possible they both may be "right." They measure different things, and apply different weights to the same things they do measure.
 
clmssun said:
I seem to recall Florida State going through the "age/ineffectiveness of legendary coach" more recently than did Michigan or Nebraska. (Carr and Osborne both retired immediately after 1997 shared championship, yes? Apologies if I am mistaken.)

Where did Florida State finish last year?

Michigan? Nebraska?

BTStimpy is spot on, IMHO.
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Bobby Bowden retired in 2009. They replaced him with a guy who is apparently decent. Even then Jimbo had people calling for his head not long ago. It's much like Jim Calhoun to Kevin Ollie. Sometimes you don't get that lucky. Sometimes you struggle to find the right guy. We've seen it at USC, Florida, Notre Dame...it happens all the time. Sometimes you hire a guy who takes you backwards, as UConn knows all too well (and Michigan). It is complete nonsense to say that Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska and Penn State can no longer compete for titles.
 
ACC fans sure are getting as many miles as possible out of FSU's success last year. Forget the fact that the ACC had THE WORST BCS record of any conference during it's existance - something like 3-13 - but the ACC(FSU really) won it all last year. Wait a second...I think WVU just scored on Clemson again.
 
clmssun said:
I seem to recall Florida State going through the "age/ineffectiveness of legendary coach" more recently than did Michigan or Nebraska. (Carr and Osborne both retired immediately after 1997 shared championship, yes? Apologies if I am mistaken.)

Where did Florida State finish last year?

Michigan? Nebraska?

BTStimpy is spot on, IMHO.
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Carr retired after the 2007 season. Rumor has it he wanted to retire in '06, but the AD at the time, Bill Martin talked him into coming back the next year. Carr came back for a couple of four year starters last year (Jake Long, Chad Henne, and Mike Hart), and he basically gave up on recruiting after the 2004 season.

Michigan was in the national title hunt in 2006 when #1 Ohio State hosted #2 Michigan. Bo Schembechler died a couple days before the game and they almost won it for him as it was right down to the last few minutes.
 
whaler11 said:
Everyone is a winner except UConn and Cincinnati. There is no angst for anyone else who isn't out of their minds.

You are a fan of the defending national champion and you have nothing better to worry about than Maryland. Like I said bizarre.
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I think there's some angst left for ACCers. They're the lamb sandwiched between two seemingly sated wolves. But if/when the SEC's and/or B1G's hunger returns, bricks are going to get pooped because the ACC's turn in the barrel is next.
 
Dooley said:
Yup. We are a defending national champion in the other revenue sport but for some absurd reason, we are stuck in the American resorting to shaking a cup of change on street corners for any kind of money we can get. Again, absurd. Off of the very top of my head, if I was a fan of Wake, BC, Cuse, Pitt, NC State, Duke, Maryland, UNC (can now add them to this list given their academic fraud scandals), UVA, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Iowa, Iowa State, Colorado, Utah, TCU, Oklahoma State, Rutgers, Louisville, Arkansas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Arizona, Arizona State, Washington, Washington State, Cal, or Oregon State, I would just be happy to be grandfathered or accepted into a P5 conference.

I mean no disrespect to any visiting fans of any of those schools. All I'm saying is that UCONN fans could give a very compelling side-by-side comparison with most/all of them if there was ever a "P5 Draft" conducted from scratch. Be thankful that your Presidents and ADs past and present were able to position your school inside the P5. Trust us, from the outside looking in, it ' sucks to see some of these schools in a p5 conference when we know full well that UCONN can compete and make money on par with all of them if all things were level. Forgive UCONN fans for not wanting to read about B1G or ACC championships from the 50s and 60s as a determining factor for what conference is the superior. All UCONN fans want to read about is the how/where/why/what/WHEN we are going to a P5 conference like the schools that I listed above enjoy.
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I've too have imagined what round UConn would be taken if the P5 were to start over from scratch. Given current conference footprints (and reasonable expansion) and 5 schools per round, what universities would get selected ahead of us? Might be worth a thread of its own sometime. Perhaps a poll.
 
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RegisteredUconn said:
I think there's some angst left for ACCers. They're the lamb sandwiched between two seemingly sated wolves. But if/when the SEC's and/or B1G's hunger returns, bricks are going to get pooped because the ACC's turn in the barrel is next.
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For like the one tenth of one percent who follow this stuff like this.

I still think the death to the ACC talk is just message board hive mind stuff.
 
billybud said:
Beating Florida was a very good win for the Cards. Florida that year had beaten an 11 win South Carolina, a 11 win Texas A&M, a 12 win FSU and a 10 win LSU.....beating ten win or better teams from a good league is a sign of strength.

UConn has had some good wins.

They just did not catch P5 eyes re football. The last ten seasons, against the the current P5 conferences (ACC, SEC, Big 12, Big 10, Pac 12), UConn has beaten one P5 team with a winning record (South Carolina-7 wins).
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Do you even think beyond yesterday afternoon when considering realignment? Those were (hopefully) 50 year decisions being made. "What have you done for me lately?" thinking is completely inappropriate under such circumstances.
 
CoastAtlantic said:
Ask Penn State fans how they were treated during those first years they were playing Big Ten teams

Ask the midwestern fans how they feel about playing the basketball tournaments in the Eastern cities

Ask them how they feel about Maryland and Rutgers in "their" conference

Or are you going to say that those are figments of my imagination.

If you think we ACC'ers are arrogant, they really believe that the Big Ten should only remain centered in the Midwest, even though they've been losing football players to the South for decades. Yes, they aren't really losing population but their growth rates have been miniscule compared to other regions. You may want to check the US Census data if you think I'm not telling the truth. Even worse is there are less and less football players growing up in that region because of 1) concentration on other sports 2) parents becoming too jittery about letting their kids play football.

The funny thing is that these fans still expect a high quality football league. Where the hell are you going to find players from? How can you have a football program without football players? Even Einstein can't figure that one out!

That's the real reason why Delany and the presidents brought you in. NJ still has decent high school programs. But they've been mined over and over again by programs not only in the East but by programs down the coast as well.

The Big Ten should just accept reality that they won't be a great conference in football in the future and concentrate on becoming the best in other sports like basketball, hockey, women's sports, etc.. But the ACC is already working hard to remain competitive in those sports as well (except for hockey, since we don't sponsor it). That's why UConn is a better fit for the ACC than the Big Ten. They've proven that they can compete with the resources they've been given. I doubt we'd see expansion for the next ten years but if we then have to expand again I would prefer UConn as the first candidate.

Yes, be grateful that somebody brought you into the P5 but don't stand there and act like you're great shakes. It's the state of NJ much more than the school in it. It's up to your program to make the most of the new opportunity. Let us worry about Pitt and Syracuse. You have to worry about Ohio State and Iowa fans thinking you don't belong.
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Wow.and too think you were the one ACC fan that had a "shred" of decency!?! Join BB and stimpy as deluded, jealous apologetic ACC fans....how would you know why anyone adds anyone?? Join the rest of us fans dissapointed in losing regionality in college sports! How's you're ACCN going if you're so popular? You sound like you work for the spin....if RU was so irrelevant I doubt you ACCers would give a sheet..lol with you're status as the Carolina/Va conference and 2nd tier everywhere else!! The Eastern Sports Conference will be up before anyone but those touting(Espin) you but not supporting a network for you is up!! SEC/ESpin has nothing to gain overpaying you anymore than they already do.How many times do you think you can drink from that well clown? Man how stupid you southerners must think us yankee's that you think you can convert or divide us!?!
 
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billybud said:
Oh...FSU fans are always worried, Whaler.

Worried about being marginalized while playing in the very shadow of the SEC...with Alabama and Georgia very near on the border and with as many Gator tags in Tallahassee as FSU tags. The Borg is always there. And their games are compelling to watch. Living this close to the Borg, it is like living in eastern Ukraine....

Worried that Miami will not once again become an opponent that will put the annual match on a national stage as it did in the 90's.

Worried that Virginia, Wake, Syracuse, et al won't provide match ups that folks care to watch.

Worried that the Coastal Division may put up a non competitive division champ. That division race should be wide open this year with no dominant team.

What we don't particularly worry about is basketball. We are resigned to our place in the basketball world and have no hopes for much better.
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As W. C. Fields once said, "At long last an honest man, want to return some money." Even on his worst day, W.C. wasn't as snarky as your last sentence, though.
 
RegisteredUconn said:
Do you even think beyond yesterday afternoon when considering realignment? Those were (hopefully) 50 year decisions being made. "What have you done for me lately?" thinking is completely inappropriate under such circumstances.
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Excellent response...some of these guys from the ACC are actually justifing Swoffys visionless moves as "wise" lol....while denigrating the B1G for actually making wise moves! WTF?
 
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NickyNewark said:
Zorro vs Rob Roy MacGregor's claymore?.another epic? I guess you'd also remember Tugboat Annie+ Broderick Crawfords Highway Patrol? lol...great yrs with few channel's but memorable TV shows.
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You left out "My Name Is Inigo Montoya...".
 
btstimpy said:
Only the 10 best men's and 10 best women's sports are counted in the scoring. That limits the schools that have 30+ sports from counting them all. But it is true in the case of Stanford that with 36 sports, you'll have a better chance of having 20 that are really good than someone who only has 20 total. But that doesn't seem to slow down Texas. They have only 20 total and finish in the top 10 often.

The schools that really have trouble are the ones that only have 16 sports total. They really have to be very good in all of them to do well. And they also probably aren't P5 material. Schools that have 28 sports and rank poorly probably aren't either for different reasons.
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But didn't you say the school picks the sports it wants counted? Sponsor the 20-25 sports people care about then sponsor some that are lightly contested. Pick those lightly contested sports and viola! Instant Directors' Cup cred.
 
There are 20-25 college sports people care about? Seems to be 2 nationally and then some locales have a 3rd, 4th and maybe 5th.
 
btstimpy said:
I just go 1990-1999 is 10 years, 2000-2009 is 10 years, 2010-2014 is 5 years. When I add them I get 25. Do you get something different?
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The time periods in question don't begin on Jan 1 and end on Dec 31. If you take the length of time between first week of April (when the champion is decided) of 1989 and first week of April 2014 it is 25 years. In your defense, in the span of the 25 years between April 1989 and April 2014, 26 champions were crowned which makes my selection of the 1989 champ unresponsive to your point. It's the old "How many fence posts do you need to construct a fence 100 yards long if you place a post every 10 yards?" question.
 
btstimpy said:
Neither Nebraska nor Penn State has won a football national championship as a member of the B1G. They both won them before being part of the B1G, but having that conference bring them both down to mediocrity due to scheduling and declining recruiting territory has and will prevent it. You could say the same about Miami and the ACC, but coaching and sanctions have been more of Miami's problem than conference. They have a better shot of returning to power due to their access to recruiting territory.
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I count the time Penn State won the title in 1994 and was a member of the Big Ten.
 
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The ACC will keep existing, as it will keep replacing teams with teams from the American. In about 5 years from now, the new SEC Network will be maxed out on in-state revenues from its current footprint and it will want to have a larger footprint to increase revenue more. This is exactly what happened in the B1G with BTN. Likewise, after BTN has become more established in its new territory on the East Coast - or Atlantic Coast if you prefer - the B1G will want to expand again to increase revenue with BTN.

The conferences with successful TV networks will be driving the bus of conference realignment from here on out. You have to be blind not to see that.
 
NickyNewark said:
Wow.and too think you were the one ACC fan that had a "shred" of decency!?! Join BB and stimpy as deluded, jealous apologetic ACC fans....how would you know why anyone adds anyone?? Join the rest of us fans dissapointed in losing regionality in college sports! How's you're ACCN going if you're so popular? You sound like you work for the spin....if RU was so irrelevant I doubt you ACCers would give a sheet..lol with you're status as the Carolina/Va conference and 2nd tier everywhere else!! The Eastern Sports Conference will be up before anyone but those touting(Espin) you but not supporting a network for you is up!! SEC/ESpin has nothing to gain overpaying you anymore than they already do.How many times do you think you can drink from that well clown? Man how stupid you southerners must think us yankee's that you think you can convert or divide us!?!
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http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...g-ten-football-basketball-penn-state-syracuse
 
Geez. Not a terribly thrilling endorsement from the Syracuse person interviewed either.[/QUOTE]

Strange, I would have expected a ringing endorsement from a Syracuse blogger. Those guys have a hard on for Rutgers that a cat couldn't scratch.
 
RegisteredUconn said:
I count the time Penn State won the title in 1994 and was a member of the Big Ten.
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There is a museum with display cases on the side of the Nebraska Cornhusker Stadium that has that trophy in it. The front door to get in there is right on the road that runs by the Stadium. You'll need to sneak into it and break the glass on that case to steal that trophy if you want to count it for Joe Paterno. Tom Osborne thinks it belongs to him at the moment.
 
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