UConn academics puts 2013 tourney out of reach | Page 2 | The Boneyard

UConn academics puts 2013 tourney out of reach

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suzyq said:
So if I understand you correctlysince the NCAA is trying to institute a new set of standards which might force UConn to miss the 2013 tournament you will stop being a fan? How do unreasonable NCAA actions cause you to cease being a fan of your team?
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Uhhh fine w/e. I was just frustrated at the time. It was an emotional post. Chill... After a couple of blunts and a 40 I realize I won't abandon my fellow Uconn brethren. This is truly disappointing however. HUSKY 4 LIFE.

I have faith that justice will be served and no repercussions will take place and we will complete the 3-peat in 2013. However if we are banned at least we know we will go down as the greatest team ever to not win it all.
 
Anyone who doesn't think the NCAA is salivating at the thought of making an example out of us is just plain naive.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Anyone who doesn't think the NCAA is salivating at the thought of making an example out of us is just plain naive.
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Maybe so, but it is less likely the legal system will think in those terms.
 
who gives a crap, i didnt realize we played the 2012 season already. The NCAA is so full of shit and contradicts itself.
 
Might be one of the few that likes the APR rule. Obviously sucks for us, but I think we've really let things slide in the last few years.
 
UConn will be alright. They would sue the NCAA and would win easily. There is a zero percent chance that the NCAA's retroactive rule would stand a chance in court. UConn would threaten to sue the NCAA, and the NCAA would drop the ban before the paperwork got to the courthouse because they know they have no chance in that case.

The earliest thing the NCAA could possibly do is say that if you fail to meet a limit for the 2011-2012 season, that you can't play in the tournament for the 2012-2013 season. You just can't use some old stat as your basis for punishment.

The fact that UConn already got punished for those older years just makes UConn's case even stronger, as if it weren't bulletproof already.
 
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Is it just me or has the whole basketball program had a giant target painted on it as of late? Everyone who isn't a UConn fan absolutely loathes us for some reason, which is unfortunate because we not only have a skilled and entertaining team on the court, but some genuinely fun guys off the court with great personalities.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Anyone who doesn't think the NCAA is salivating at the thought of making an example out of us is just plain naive.
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I don't know. The NCAA had a chance to make an example out of the Auburn and Ohio State football teams and ended up just giving OSU a slap on the wrist.

Maybe there is something to the theory that the NCAA is not happy UConn found a way around the scholarship limit. If they wanted to make UConn sweat a bit, then mission accomplished.

In the end, though, unless guys screw up academically, UConn will apply for and receive a waiver for the 12-13 tournament.
 
What a roller-coaster it's been the past few days. First the NCAA Pres misspoke saying that the committee would vote to implement the tournament ban starting as early as the upcoming postseason. Then he offered up some serious spin saying it was a misunderstanding. Then the report came out that the NCAA was in fact not implementing it this season, that they would implement in stages, and UConn seemed safe with the proposed plan as they being to show improvement.

Now it seems there's an unreachable number for 2013. If this is not clarified soon, stating that UConn would be fine if they continue to show improvement, the Huskies will risk losing recruits. Note that even if there are some law suits to try to prevent that, the damage might already have been done.

It just seems we are getting punished over and over again. I hope this gets cleared up soon. I hope UConn dominates the field this year and wins it all again to counter all this bad news.

I just don't understand why they need to take these measures. Isn't the ship reductions enough of a motivation? In addition to an institution bringing the NCAA to court, I could see the players and their families doing likewise, especially if this the current players collectively are putting up big APR numbers and are being penalized for something that others who aren't even here, with consequences that weren't even in place when they decided to attend UConn.

With the season on the doorstep and so much to hope for, this APR crap is sucking the life out of our Mojo.
 
StoweD210 said:
I don't know. The NCAA had a chance to make an example out of the Auburn and Ohio State football teams and ended up just giving OSU a slap on the wrist.

Maybe there is something to the theory that the NCAA is not happy UConn found a way around the scholarship limit. If they wanted to make UConn sweat a bit, then mission accomplished.

In the end, though, unless guys screw up academically, UConn will apply for and receive a waiver for the 12-13 tournament.
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That would be a crime if that was the case. It wasn't like UConn planned for AD to decide at the last minute to come to UConn. And I would hope that people would realize that AD is the home-state hero that wanted to attend his state's university. There was no intent to circumvent the penalties.
 
uconNYC said:
Might be one of the few that likes the APR rule. Obviously sucks for us, but I think we've really let things slide in the last few years.
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What do you like about it?
Do you like UConn's attempt to comply with it? Here is one aspect of that:

* In order to make significant progress toward graduation, continuing student-athletes will be required to enroll in a minimum of nine credit hours during summer school.

Seems to me UConn is already figuring out how to game it. That a faculty committee recommended this is highly surprising. That's 9 courses at least taken during the summer, over a quarter of them.
 
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upstater said:
What do you like about it?
Do you like UConn's attempt to comply with it? Here is one aspect of that:

* In order to make significant progress toward graduation, continuing student-athletes will be required to enroll in a minimum of nine credit hours during summer school.

Seems to me UConn is already figuring out how to game it. That a faculty committee recommended this is highly surprising. That's 9 courses at least taken during the summer, over a quarter of them.
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Not sure why you think this is gaming the system. With all the travelling these kids do during the season, they probably get a lot more out of a class that they can attend daily during the summer than one during the season where they do a chunk of their "classwork" on the road with a tutor. As long as they're taking the minimum number of credits during the season to stay eligible, I don't see loading up on summer classes as unusual at all.
 
Summer classes, as everyone knows, are a simply money-making scheme by the university. They draw non-matriculated students, and they don't pay out financial aid (typically during the fall and spring semesters, 30% of tuition money is recirculated as financial aid) which means the margins are much higher. Beyond that, the costs of faculty are lowered as even full-time faculty who elect to teach (which is rare) are compensated at a low amount ($3k per class). In other words, the reason for summer classes is $$$.

Beyond that, the time constraint means simply that students are not doing as much work. If a class requires 15 hours of outside work per 17 weeks over a semester, there is simply not enough time in a week to fit that kind of work in. 250 hours per class. 250 hours divided by 4 weeks = 62 hours a week per class. Impossible. This means they are less educational.

Cont'd
 
And, most importantly, core courses toward the major are rarely offered in summer. If I were a student-athlete who really really cared about my education, I would balk at being forced to take fully 1/4 of my classes during the summer. Basically, you'd have to take all of your electives in the summers, AND those electives would be in intro courses only.

Anyone can argue that this is probably not a major change in the lives of most top student athletes, but you can't say at all that it isn't a diminishment in education. it is. This is what I've been saying. APR, because it rewards semester-by-semester standing as much as it rewards graduation, will lead to LOWERED standards for education. Who to blame? UConn or the NCAA for forcing 3 summer classes on all athletes?

Cont'd
 
Many years ago, on U. Miami's campus, I was told by people higher up in administration that the football players only take intersession courses in summer and in early January, which enables them not to enroll for the Fall semester. So now these standards are being imported everywhere into the NCAA.

I noted that UConn's football team this week came out very flat for a game against Pittsburgh. It probably should not be lost on anyone that students are in the midst of a two-week mid-term exam period, and the game was on a Wednesday night.

Really, who is the NCAA fooling with these APR standards?
 
DogMania said:
That would be a crime if that was the case. It wasn't like UConn planned for AD to decide at the last minute to come to UConn. And I would hope that people would realize that AD is the home-state hero that wanted to attend his state's university. There was no intent to circumvent the penalties.
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I don't know if that's true Stu. I'm sure there was some back slapping going on in the basketball offices when they managed to land Drummond even with the sanctions in place. However that's not the point, the NCAA shouldn't be in the revenge business, let's leave that to Inogo Montoya.
 
toke said:
This would be the biggest disgrace ever. Not sure if I could stay a Uconn fan if this happens.
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What? Why? Take your anger out on the pinheads at the NCAA instead.
 
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rman726 said:
UConn will be alright. They would sue the NCAA and would win easily. There is a zero percent chance that the NCAA's retroactive rule would stand a chance in court. UConn would threaten to sue the NCAA, and the NCAA would drop the ban before the paperwork got to the courthouse because they know they have no chance in that case.

The earliest thing the NCAA could possibly do is say that if you fail to meet a limit for the 2011-2012 season, that you can't play in the tournament for the 2012-2013 season. You just can't use some old stat as your basis for punishment.

The fact that UConn already got punished for those older years just makes UConn's case even stronger, as if it weren't bulletproof already.
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Actually, you are wrong. If the NCAA were the government, and these were criminal penalties, then they couldn't do this. However, the NCAA is a voluntary association, and UConn agreed to abide by their rules. UConn can leave the NCAA if it likes. Concepts like Due Process and Ex Post Facto laws do not apply to a private association enforcing its rules.

That said, I think something will be done to avoid this outcome.
 
suzyq said:
I don't know if that's true Stu. I'm sure there was some back slapping going on in the basketball offices when they managed to land Drummond even with the sanctions in place. However that's not the point, the NCAA shouldn't be in the revenge business, let's leave that to Inogo Montoya.
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I wasn't implying that the staff didn't enjoy the fact that they did find a way to get around the penalties and have 11 scholarship level players. My point was they wouldn't have done this for any other recruit. In fact, if AD had made his decision before Daniels did, I'm sure they would have told Deandre that they no longer had a ship for him.
 
Ricky1Moore said:
They can't do this retroactively... Uconn will not be banned from the NCAA Tournament, everyone relax. Can the season just start already...
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agree. writers can write whatever they want, no matter how flawed. doesn't make it true.
 
I don't know guys...if this is in fact the stance....

"For access to postseason competition in 2012-13 and 2013-14, teams must achieve a 900 multiyear APR or a 930 average over the most recent two years to be eligible," he said in an email to the AP. "For 2012-13, those years would be 2009-10 and 2010-11. For 2013-14, those years would be 2010-11 and 2011-12."
Condition 1: teams must achieve a 900 multiyear APR
APR for 2009-10: 826
APR for 2010-11: 975
Condition 2: 930 average over the most recent two years
APR Average: 900.5

What gets me is that the 930 seems off base.

A team that has a 900 in 2009-10 and 2010-11 (which has a 900 average) is fine. I could hope we could lobby to start the average at 900 and steadily increase it to 930.
 
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Just another thought. Can players from 2009-10 have a chance to finish up and change the 826 score?
 
suzyq said:
I don't have a penis...
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Judging by your 'likes', the board appears well pleased that you are not endowed in any capacity. I'm guessing transgenders would not fair well on the Boneyard.
 
You think this is bad- wait till the season starts. Haters are gonna hate and they are going to be out in force if we have a good team this year. I am greatful our board moved- it will cut back on trolls this year that can not find the site.
Time for us to put our collective heads down and enjoy this season. We will wind up somewhere- the APR thing will most likely work out as well in the end- neither will happen before the season begins or possibly ends.

I find the speculation on this board to be right in line with what the talking heads have been doing to us for years- putting us in the worst light possible so they have something to write about. Well I'm ready to let the pieces fall in place over time and I am cursing this lull before the season and the brand new sandwich served up by the NCAA we once again have to choke down. Fortunately I am full from the last 5 years of sandwiches and have no room left for any of this doomsday speculation.

WE ARE DOOMED!
 
Scot-e said:
You think this is bad- wait till the season starts. Haters are gonna hate and they are going to be out in force if we have a good team this year.
I find the speculation on this board to be right in line with what the talking heads have been doing to us for years- putting us in the worst light possible so they have something to write about.
WE ARE DOOMED!
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UConn should be all right when all the dust settles including being in the post seasons the next two seasons if they continue to improve the APR and win games.

UConn is the new Duke and like it or not people love to bandwagon with winners and love to watch them fall.

Continued...
 
The thing we'll all have to endure this season is the constant telecasting during UConn games that UConn MAY not be in the 2013 postseason tournament. And this will continue until an official statement specifically states UConn has demonstrated enough progress to warrant a waiver. I doubt this statement will be forthcoming, but I do expect the reporting of APR's to be changed, and when that does most reasonable commentators like Jay Bilas and Andy Katz will be on top of the progress UConn is making and report that UConn is likely to get into the 2013 tournament.

As far as recruiting goes, I think UConn will be fine. As intlzncster pointed out this trouble is just fodder for JC. And I'll add one more thing to go along with your DOOOMMED! Scot-e.

The world can throw at JC and the bb program. But the Universe will give him the final laugh once again in the form of another NC or two.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Actually, you are wrong. If the NCAA were the government, and these were criminal penalties, then they couldn't do this. However, the NCAA is a voluntary association, and UConn agreed to abide by their rules. UConn can leave the NCAA if it likes. Concepts like Due Process and Ex Post Facto laws do not apply to a private association enforcing its rules.

That said, I think something will be done to avoid this outcome.
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Basically, just think of the NCAA as a government authorized monopoly. There are no other real options for schools to switch to. Not to mention how much the NCAA gains in many other ways from the government's support. Therefore, the government has as much say as they want in the business. Similar to how Congress has been butting itself in the MLB and NFL's business for years. And those two leagues don't have public institution teams (ie government owned assets).
 
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Just out of curiosity, did Price, Adrien, and Austrie graduate? I swear I read AJ did, but I don't know about the other two.
 
blackbird said:
Just out of curiosity, did Price, Adrien, and Austrie graduate? I swear I read AJ did, but I don't know about the other two.
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AJP and Craig did. Not sure about Jeff. I want to say that he did based on recollection, but I've got nothing substantial on that one.
 
champs99and04 said:
The haters are really going to lick this story up. I guess it just gives JC one more reason to win another title this year.
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Exactly. You know, you'd think people would know not to piss him off by now.
 
intlzncster said:
AJP and Craig did. Not sure about Jeff. I want to say that he did based on recollection, but I've got nothing substantial on that one.
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I'm almost positive Adrien did NOT graduate. If I recall correctly he left school a few days after the Final Four to start prepping for the NBA draft.
 
upstater said:
Many years ago, on U. Miami's campus, I was told by people higher up in administration that the football players only take intersession courses in summer and in early January, which enables them not to enroll for the Fall semester. So now these standards are being imported everywhere into the NCAA.

I noted that UConn's football team this week came out very flat for a game against Pittsburgh. It probably should not be lost on anyone that students are in the midst of a two-week mid-term exam period, and the game was on a Wednesday night.

Really, who is the NCAA fooling with these APR standards?
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What do you know about Kentucky's situation? They have a lot of 1-and-dones, and don't take hits that people like Gavin Edwards cost us (in his 8th semester. leaves for pro tryouts). Do they simply not enroll for the Spring semester? How else can they do it?
 
uconnfan68 said:
What do you know about Kentucky's situation? They have a lot of 1-and-dones, and don't take hits that people like Gavin Edwards cost us (in his 8th semester. leaves for pro tryouts). Do they simply not enroll for the Spring semester? How else can they do it?
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While not UK, Kansas had an interesting one last year with Josh Selby. He didn't even show up 2nd semester. They claimed he was doing correspondence courses (from Las Vegas!!!) while getting ready for the draft. He never got along well with the coach/program, so I doubt he actually did the work out of the goodness of his heart.

No worries for them though.
 
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intlzncster said:
While not UK, Kansas had an interesting one last year with Josh Selby. He didn't even show up 2nd semester. They claimed he was doing correspondence courses (from Las Vegas!!!) while getting ready for the draft. He never got along well with the coach/program, so I doubt he actually did the work out of the goodness of his heart.

No worries for them though.
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That's why this whole thing regarding UConn is a farce. UConn is the poster child to give the NCAA an appearance it is really doing something. It isn't doing anything if it isn't overseeing the universities to determine the accuracy of their reporting. So the timing of the announcement of the new rules by the NCAA was to make sure a program with notoriety was giving the NCAA the desired publicity. It sucks for UConn that they just happened to be in the post office when the NCAA went postal.

But UConn will survive this. The problem with the reporters who are targeting UConn is that they are missing the real story, the things people are providing in these forums. Which is probably why JC was so irritable with the reporter in that interview, and which is why I suspect JH has a role in all this.
 
uconnfan68 said:
What do you know about Kentucky's situation? They have a lot of 1-and-dones, and don't take hits that people like Gavin Edwards cost us (in his 8th semester. leaves for pro tryouts). Do they simply not enroll for the Spring semester? How else can they do it?
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If they get a summer semester under their belt, maybe an intersession between Fall and Spring, they might not have to enroll for the spring. If the school allows it.

UConn making 3 courses mandatory in the summer is a move toward this kind of setup.
 
I could be wrong but I thought that in order to be eligible you had to be enrolled in three classes (at a minimum) at the start of any semester that you were competing as a student athlete. Granted, once February hits you can drop all courses (and as your career would be over before any requirements to make up these classes kicked in) so showing up for more than the first two or three classes may not be necessary for any one and dones (and had been common in many places) but they had to be enrolled when the semester began.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I could be wrong but I thought that in order to be eligible you had to be enrolled in three classes (at a minimum) at the start of any semester that you were competing as a student athlete. Granted, once February hits you can drop all courses (and as your career would be over before any requirements to make up these classes kicked in) so showing up for more than the first two or three classes may not be necessary for any one and dones (and had been common in many places) but they had to be enrolled when the semester began.
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And what of intersession courses? Emeka had only one course in the Spring? I think you have to maintain status with a university, you have to be enrolled, BUT, does the winter intersession count as enrollment Spring enrollment? The Miami people told me this is how they did it.
 
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