Twelfth Team to the Big East | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Twelfth Team to the Big East

Gonzaga is too far, too reliant on Few's success, post-Few would have to think recruiting takes a dive findings kids willing to travel that far consistently for less proven coach. It would be fun for as long as Few is there but could see a significant nose dive thereafter. If you can guarantee Gonzaga is a perennial top 25 team in perpetuity then fine. But if you're adding a Butler or Marquette on the west coast long term that floats between top 50 to top 100, it ain't worth it.

Notre Dame literally cannot join the Big East based on agreement with ACC (or at least would require a lot of money to get out of said agreement) and makes no sense to them from $ standpoint

Temple adds nothing (big alumni base, but small fan base / poor fan engagement, Philly market already covered, doesn't move the needle nationally).

A-10 schools add nothing. I don't want UConn to have to travel to St. Louis or Dayton or Richmond, Virginia. Midwest and Mid-Atlantic are already covered from recruiting standpoint and the markets are small and fan bases are nice but nothing extraordinary that moves the needle.

Buffalo doesn't move the needle much. The high school basketball in the area is decent, but no one is getting excited to play Buffalo. So while it may be nice to tap a new market for recruiting I don't think they have the fanbase willing to engage with their program consistently. The arena only holds 6-7k which is really small. Any other school in conference like Nova with an arena that small plays in a large city based arena for bigger games, which Buffalo does not use currently. They could start playing games where Buffalo Sabres play hockey when necessary, but again I question fan engagement to be worthy of inclusion.

Unless Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt, and Notre Dame would like to be relevant in the sport of basketball again, no matter the cost, there are 0 good options.
 
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Fishy said:
I came here to tell you that it’s incredibly stupid to invite Gonzaga given how reliant they are on Mark Few for their success.

But then someone suggested UMass and I lost my train of thought.

The Boneyard is like 25 years old and that was one of the top 25 dumbest things I have ever read here. It should be sold as an NFT.
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UConn was incredibly reliant on Jim Calhoun but he created a huge national brand through all his success where they were set up for the future. Gonzaga doesn't have the hardware but they are always top 5 and always in the mix late in the tournament. Few will be there for a lot longer and they are set up for success when he retires, a move to the Big East makes being successful after Few much easier. From strictly a basketball perspective it's a no-brainer.
 
nomar said:
I'm the 10th person in this thread to say this, but that's just so many long trips for Gonzaga. Don't see it.

It's like putting a pro team (NBA, NFL) in Europe. Sounds cool but logistically it's too difficult.
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No doubt it would be a long trip but definitely not the same thing.

In the pros, the closest team to Europe would be ~6 flight hours and a 4+ hour time change, with most of the league being 8+ hours flight and 6+ hours time difference.

Gonzaga would have a 4.5 hour flight to its furthest opponent and half of the league only ~3 hours. How different is that than their current trips to southern CA for their WCC conference games?

Also, the travel burden would be 100% on Gonzaga. If they are up for it, then why not? Sure we have to go to Spokane once per year, but that’s no different than Nova flying out to UCLA for a non conference game or us going out to the PK80 or PK85 next season…

Hawaii is D1 in basketball and football and is a 4.5 hour flight from their closest conference member and much further to some others. If they can make it work, so can Gonzaga.

With WiFi and inflight entertainment (often live TV) 4.5 hours is really no big deal, especially on a charter.
 
McLovin said:
No doubt it would be a long trip but definitely not the same thing.

In the pros, the closest team to Europe would be ~6 flight hours and a 4+ hour time change, with most of the league being 8+ hours flight and 6+ hours time difference.

Gonzaga would have a 4.5 hour flight to its furthest opponent and half of the league only ~3 hours. How different is that than their current trips to southern CA for their WCC conference games?

Also, the travel burden would be 100% on Gonzaga. If they are up for it, then why not? Sure we have to go to Spokane once per year, but that’s no different than Nova flying out to UCLA for a non conference game or us going out to the PK80 or PK85 next season…

Hawaii is D1 in basketball and football and is a 4.5 hour flight from their closest conference member and much further to some others. If they can make it work, so can Gonzaga.

With WiFi and inflight entertainment (often live TV) 4.5 hours is really no big deal, especially on a charter.
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You forgot to mention studying.
 
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McLovin said:
No doubt it would be a long trip but definitely not the same thing.

In the pros, the closest team to Europe would be ~6 flight hours and a 4+ hour time change, with most of the league being 8+ hours flight and 6+ hours time difference.

Gonzaga would have a 4.5 hour flight to its furthest opponent and half of the league only ~3 hours. How different is that than their current trips to southern CA for their WCC conference games?

Also, the travel burden would be 100% on Gonzaga. If they are up for it, then why not? Sure we have to go to Spokane once per year, but that’s no different than Nova flying out to UCLA for a non conference game or us going out to the PK80 or PK85 next season…

Hawaii is D1 in basketball and football and is a 4.5 hour flight from their closest conference member and much further to some others. If they can make it work, so can Gonzaga.

With WiFi and inflight entertainment (often live TV) 4.5 hours is really no big deal, especially on a charter.
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I didn't say it was the same thing. I was merely citing another example where, IMO, the upside is up against some serious logistical issues.

I agree it's on Gonzaga, not the rest of the BE. I just don't see them thinking it's worth it. Their travel schedule would be much worse. You can't compare the worst part of their current schedule to what would be the easiest part of their schedule in the Big East and say it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind being wrong about Gonzaga's POV.
 
I don’t get the obsession with Gonzaga. When Few is gone, they’re done. Just like how the AAC rashly added Wichita State, we would regret elevating that program and all the travel costs that come with. Matter of fact, the travel is probably the biggest reason Gonzaga will never join; who wants, in regional sports like college athletics, their closest conference mate to be 1500 miles away
 
dvegas said:
Said it in another post. Buffalo aka UB, academically light years ahead of UMass and every MAC school except Miami. Crazy as it sounds, another large state school with good academics in the Big East, they would be a much better addition than UMass, and an annual football opponent? Plus might piss off Suckacuse
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We have to remember we are in the company of a bunch of small private basketball-centric Catholics and frankly we should still be thanking our stars they took us in; and that’s with our long, long, illustrious history in the conference and with those teams. Idk how well Buffalo fits in with the crowd.
 
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metsfan2323 said:
I love it when people call an idea dumb without explaining why or offering a better suggestion.

Your prefer some of the other ideas offered in this thread? How come you didn't call out Canisius or Memphis?

Only UMASS gets under your skin, perhaps because they are a rival.
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They were a rival for 20 minutes in the 90's when Camby was paid to go there. They are irrelevant in all aspects as a rival.
 
Waquoit said:
Few was the 2nd guy at Gonzaga not the first. He wasn't the HC when we played in the 99 Dance.
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Yeah the question is whether they can be the Boise State of college basketball, where they keep winning despite coaching changes. Not easy to do.

Then again, Few is "only" 58 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

I think it's a good risk to assume Gonzaga will be relevant for the foreseeable future. The trajectory is upwards.
 
My first choice would be Syracuse but its not going to happen.
BC would be my second choice (see above)
Zags, not going to happen. Too much travel for them and their conference affiliation is no longer a hindrance.
Definite no on UMass Or Rhody. But if it happens I'd pick UMass
I think the best choice would be Dayton. Catholic school. Would be able to develop a rivalry with Xavier an hour away and Butler two hours away. They have a bball tradition and a dedicated alumni base. Very similar to Marquette in both those categories. Marquette lite in a way. I know it's not a school in the east but it's not in Fort Worth either.
 
nomar said:
Yeah the question is whether they can be the Boise State of college basketball, where they keep winning despite coaching changes. Not easy to do.

Then again, Few is "only" 58 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

I think it's a good risk to assume Gonzaga will be relevant for the foreseeable future. The trajectory is upwards.
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They are not going anywhere. They are a juggernaut and will be for a long time
 
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Expanding to twelve members would (almost definitely) mean two six team divisions. As Connecticut, PC, St John's, SHU, Villanova and Georgetown as one division appears to be a no brainer while keeping Butler, Xavier, Marquette, DePaul and even the outlier Creighton together in a division makes the most sense, if a twelfth member were to be added it would be a school somewhere west of Pennsylvania.

I don't know if travel could ever make sense with Gonzaga added to the Ohio to Nebraska division but at the moment they would be the only potential candidate with a sufficient profile. Any other school that could help us would have to give up some money to leave their current conference (unless someone believes a school like St Louis or Dayton would improve the conference as a whole).
 
QDOG5 said:
My first choice would be Syracuse but its not going to happen.
BC would be my second choice (see above)
Zags, not going to happen. Too much travel for them and their conference affiliation is no longer a hindrance.
Definite no on UMass Or Rhody. But if it happens I'd pick UMass
I think the best choice would be Dayton. Catholic school. Would be able to develop a rivalry with Xavier an hour away and Butler two hours away. They have a bball tradition and a dedicated alumni base. Very similar to Marquette in both those categories. Marquette lite in a way. I know it's not a school in the east but it's not in Fort Worth either.
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I agree with Syracuse #1 and BCU #2
On BC, the move would be for UConn to extend an olive branch, apologize for the Calhoun years & other ill-will over the years and welcome them back with open arms after years of ACC basement dwelling. Then once they are back in the BE, UConn flips and take their spot in the ACC ;)

My #3 is UMass - I was trying to explain to a bunch of friends how/why UConn got screwed in the conference realignment, why football stinks and how/why BC and UMass hate UConn. The reasonging/argument that generated the ill-will, which was mostly Calhoun's, was that we don't want to boost nearby rivals and thereby hurt UConn's recruiting advantage in the northeast. This was short-sighted (not just b/c of the football conference debacle in partially caused) and not in the spirit of college athletics (hypocrisy i know, please don't boo). Many other schools co-exist with rivals in their backyard, if there is room in other much smaller markets there is room in the northeast and adding UMass could grow both schools. UMass is a much better school than it was 30yrs ago when Calhoun started (as is UConn of course) and very arguably will continue to prosper with a wealthier state to fund it. It is so freakin' stupid that conferences blew up based on football and TV & the loss of so many local/regional rivalries. So yes, the Big East needs to zag but not to Gon (sorry) but to local rivalries.
 
QDOG5 said:
My first choice would be Syracuse but its not going to happen.
BC would be my second choice (see above)
Zags, not going to happen. Too much travel for them and their conference affiliation is no longer a hindrance.
Definite no on UMass Or Rhody. But if it happens I'd pick UMass
I think the best choice would be Dayton. Catholic school. Would be able to develop a rivalry with Xavier an hour away and Butler two hours away. They have a bball tradition and a dedicated alumni base. Very similar to Marquette in both those categories. Marquette lite in a way. I know it's not a school in the east but it's not in Fort Worth either.
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Good call on Dayton. Would be a decent middling team
 
I'm glad you whackos have no say in the dealings of our AD and conference...

But while we're all blowing smoke...I think raiding the ACC would be the ultimate karma. Lot of mediocre football teams there could form a mediocre football conference that us and Nova could fit right in with (albeit as Depaul level bottom feeders - for a bit). Grab Cuse, UVA, VT, BC and ND for all sports except football and have them do a rights deal similar to their current agreement with ACC. Would need to get creative with football to fill out that roster to 10 teams...but this won't ever happen so...
 
nomar said:
Yeah the question is whether they can be the Boise State of college basketball, where they keep winning despite coaching changes. Not easy to do.

Then again, Few is "only" 58 and doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

I think it's a good risk to assume Gonzaga will be relevant for the foreseeable future. The trajectory is upwards.
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They are at a much higher level than Boise was in football or what Wichita (Rocko brought them up) was in hoops though. They are basically a 10 program the last 20 years or so and top 5 the last five years. Most people probably thought UConn was a flash in the pan early on but when you sustain success for such a long period of time you become a powerhouse program...

I never believed in a million years UConn would go away when Cahoun hung it up. Despite getting screwed in conference realignment and the Ollie debacle we are right back on course. The one thing working against Gonzaga whenever Few hangs it up is that their conference is terrible and they'll have nobody to play for the majority of the season which makes it a lot harder for the new coach. Joining one of the premier basketball conferences in the country fixes that and adds a whole lot of juice to the program.
 
superjohn said:
They are at a much higher level than Boise was in football or what Wichita (Rocko brought them up) was in hoops though. They are basically a 10 program the last 20 years or so and top 5 the last five years. Most people probably thought UConn was a flash in the pan early on but when you sustain success for such a long period of time you become a powerhouse program...

I never believed in a million years UConn would go away when Cahoun hung it up. Despite getting screwed in conference realignment and the Ollie debacle we are right back on course. The one thing working against Gonzaga whenever Few hangs it up is that their conference is terrible and they'll have nobody to play for the majority of the season which makes it a lot harder for the new coach. Joining one of the premier basketball conferences in the country fixes that and adds a whole lot of juice to the program.
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I believe Gonzaga is here to stay. There is always a drop off when the big time coach leaves and the successor arrives. But a strong program, as long as they don't hire Ollie, will survive and gain strength again.
 
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superjohn said:
UConn was incredibly reliant on Jim Calhoun but he created a huge national brand through all his success where they were set up for the future. Gonzaga doesn't have the hardware but they are always top 5 and always in the mix late in the tournament. Few will be there for a lot longer and they are set up for success when he retires, a move to the Big East makes being successful after Few much easier. From strictly a basketball perspective it's a no-brainer.
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Yup, this has come up time and time again in this thread. Logistics, with the Zags being out west, are the major hurdle. If Gonzaga was dominating as part of the A10 in, say, Virginia, no one would be questioning inviting a non-football school with a perennial top-5 program.

Should we dump Villanova because we don't know what the post-Wright era will look like?
 
goskis2018 said:
Yup, this has come up time and time again in this thread. Logistics, with the Zags being out west, are the major hurdle. If Gonzaga was dominating as part of the A10 in, say, Virginia, no one would be questioning inviting a non-football school with a perennial top-5 program.

Should we dump Villanova because we don't know what the post-Wright era will look like?
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If Gonzaga was closer to the Midwest they would've already been in the Big East years ago. All the other stuff people are bringing up is just noise. They had serious talks years ago and I think they're having serious talks now.
 
metsfan2323 said:
I love it when people call an idea dumb without explaining why or offering a better suggestion.

Your prefer some of the other ideas offered in this thread? How come you didn't call out Canisius or Memphis?

Only UMASS gets under your skin, perhaps because they are a rival.
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I’ve been very clear - there are no viable options.

Suggesting UMass because they’re relatively close on the map is the work of a simpleton.
 
metsfan2323 said:
Give UMASS a Big East upgrade and they would be quite capable of doing what Houston did with a cheaper AAC upgrade.
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Based on what, exactly? Anything more than wishful thinking?
 
Fishy said:
I’ve been very clear - there are no viable options.

Suggesting UMass because they’re relatively close on the map is the work of a simpleton.
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I have no idea what various non-revenue sports at UConn like track, swimming or polo do for conference/game/opponents. But if even ONE of those niche sports travels to Creighton or Butler for so much as a chukka it'd be infinitely more sensical to use that map & pick a local conference foe. UConn's diving team should be in a conference with whatever 40 pools & schools are within an hour and half drive and that's it.
 
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