Tulsa gets 4* QB Commit

[FfldCntyFan]

The idea that these fat slobs like Mike Farrell can appropriately differentiate between a 2* and a 3* player is so mind bogglingly stupid it defies comprehension.

If you want to use any metric for recruiting look at a kid's offer list or who else is interested. Even that is shady and unreliable. Which is why I find following recruiting stupid.

Exactly. 90% of why a guy like Farrell knows about any given recruit is what he read about the kid (written by another fat, lazy slob like Farrell who also saw very little of the kid actually playing), what a very brief piece of highlight footage shows and what a few coaches (HS coaches are obviously going to praise their kids, college coaches will be intentionally vague) tell him over the phone.

Taking this as some absolute as to what one guy can do vs what another cannot is moronic.

 

[UConnDan97]

It's largely symantecs at this point, but the star system does not matter. Talent does.

UCONN beat programs like Pitt, ND, WVU, USC, UVA, Louisville, etc. partially because we were more talented. The stars would suggest that would have been an impossibility.

By your logic, it should have also been an impossibility that we would lose by 14 to Temple that year, but it happened. We are not talking about the performance in one game. We are talking about the average performance over a season from teams that have a higher amount of stars that teams that don't. We are talking about the difference between a 4-star kid and a 2-star kid. For every game that you show us beating South Carolina or Louisville, I'll show you us losing to Temple, Western Michigan, or Towson...

 

[uconndogs]

If we were talking about the difference between 2's and 3's, then you would be right. That's not what we're talking about here. And to suggest that 2's as a percentage success rate are the same as 4's is not just silly, it's wrong. The same can be seen in basketball. The jump of two stars is a significant one from a probability standpoint, whether you agree with it or not...

You are right on this. But, what does it have to do with UCONN and every other program outside of the top 15 programs in the country that recruit the vast majority of 4 and 5 star kids?

 

[UConnDan97]

Exactly. 90% of why a guy like Farrell knows about any given recruit is what he read about the kid (written by another fat, lazy slob like Farrell who also saw very little of the kid actually playing), what a very brief piece of highlight footage shows and what a few coaches (HS coaches are obviously going to praise their kids, college coaches will be intentionally vague) tell him over the phone.

Taking this as some absolute as to what one guy can do vs what another cannot is moronic.

Oh dear God.

Who is talking about it as an absolute? Maybe only you. How many times in this thread have I said that it is a probability assessment? Also, it doesn't matter if Farrell knows one ounce of football. If he is generating a list based off of people like Saban, Kelly, Meyer, etc., then he is just collecting data. But keep in mind that it is data that is real. It is relevant. Because it's being generated by the best football minds in the college game...

 

[UConnDan97]

You are right on this. But, what does it have to do with UCONN and every other program outside of the top 15 programs in the country that recruit the vast majority of 4 and 5 star kids?

What does it have to do with anything? I feel like I'm going crazy on this thread, and I may bail on it very soon.

What it has to do with anything is simply this: a team full of 2's has a lower probability of winning a game against a team full of 4's. Period. End of story.

What it has to do with Tulsa? Only God knows. Tulsa has a 4-star QB in this year's recruiting class. Good for them. Outside of that kid, the rest of their 2015 recruiting class is entirely made up of 2's. Entirely. I like our chances against them...

https://tulsa com/

 

[uconndogs]

By your logic, it should have also been an impossibility that we would lose by 14 to Temple that year, but it happened. We are not talking about the performance in one game. We are talking about the average performance over a season from teams that have a higher amount of stars that teams that don't. We are talking about the difference between a 4-star kid and a 2-star kid. For every game that you show us beating South Carolina or Louisville, I'll show you us losing to Temple, Western Michigan, or Towson...

Huh??

We won two conference championships in a conference where the recruiting sites regularly ranked us last in recruiting in conference.

As for Temple, WMU, Towson I can only reference P. In 2012 he had a defense in which every single starter ended up either drafted by or in an NFL camp. He also had two future NFL players on the offense. All those players by the way we're ........you guessed it.........2 star recruits. How he screwed that season is beyond my comprehension.

 

[UConnDan97]

Huh??

We won two conference championships in a conference where the recruiting sites regularly ranked us last in recruiting in conference.

As for Temple, WMU, Towson I can only reference P. In 2012 he had a defense in which every single starter ended up either drafted by or in an NFL camp. He also had two future NFL players on the offense. All those players by the way we're ...you guessed it....2 star recruits. How he screwed that season is beyond my comprehension.

We lost to Temple by 14 in our Fiesta Bowl year, so I'm not simply talking about PP.

It's clear that you and others might not be following what I'm saying. I'm not saying that a 2-star player can't become an NFL player. I'm not saying that a 4-star player will always become one. I'm not even saying that a team with primarily 2-stars can't beat a team with primarily 4-stars on any given day.

This is about probability of success, both at the individual and team level. For those that don't believe what I'm saying, that's fine. Mathematics does not require belief in order to be correct...

 

[Stainmaster]

Nobody's arguing that we should take 2-stars over 4-stars. Everyone knows that highly-rated players tend to offer a higher probability of winning. The problem is how attainable these players with higher rankings are for a program such as UCONN.

 

[UConnDan97]

Nobody's arguing that we should take 2-stars over 4-stars. Everyone knows that highly-rated players tend to offer a higher probability of winning. The problem is how attainable these players with higher rankings are for a program such as UCONN.

Yeah, so that was the original question that you and I were talking about prior to the discussions about whether or not 2-stars vs. 4-stars is a significant difference. Because there were actually people in this very thread arguing that there's really no difference, when in fact there is.

Going back to the original point; there are plenty of higher ranked kids in the northeast, even if it isn't specifically in CT. Pennsylvania has a high concentration of higher ranked recruits, as does New Jersey. Edsall always excelled in the PA recruiting, and Diaco seems to excel in the NJ recruiting (although it's not like we didn't do well in NJ before, with kids like Donald Brown, etc.). So it's my opinion that we can be very successful recruiting in the northeast (all the way down to northern VA) and the eastern Midwest states (i.e., OH and IL, which seems to be happening with our new staff with kids like Vontae Diggs and Garland). We will of course always have to have some success in Florida; that goes without saying. But there is no inherent advantage for Tulsa vs. UConn. While Texas has the most recruits available, it also has the most competition for them...

 

[Drew]

I do wonder if Tulsa can get Baylor on the schedule for a home and home now. Baylor typically doesn't have the superiority complex working for it in scheduling agreements

 

[FAIRTIDES]

What a misleading stat you've provided us! Comical. But as you've said, you're just "generalizing a bit." Oklahoma has provided only 5 of the top 300. It's like lumping CT with FL and providing a large number; it's not really relevant. Also, of the 5 recruits from OK, only 2 of them are in the top 100. CT has 2 of the top 111 players, to put that in perspective.

Kudos to Tulsa for getting a 4-star QB. I'm sure he'll work out fine for them and help them on their way. But the idea that Tulsa has some intrinsic advantage at recruiting over UConn simply because they are the 9th best option in the Texas / Oklahoma area is ridiculous...

(Texas, Texas AM, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and probably bowl-winning Rice, not to mention all the other major teams from all around the country that commit large resources to recruiting TX)

State Population: CT 3.7MM, OK 3.9 MM
Congressman: 7 / 7
Electoral Voters: 9 / 9

Oklahoma has pretty much the same statistical opportunity to produce football players as Connecticut. As Bud Wilkinson, Sooner's Hall of Fame former coach once indicated, " If there were no Texas, there would be no college football in Oklahoma."

One other thing is pertinent. Only Connecticut has to deal with the CIAC and restrictions it places on a coach's access to players.

 

[UConnDan97]

State Population: CT 3.7MM, OK 3.9 MM
Congressman: 7 / 7
Electoral Voters: 9 / 9

Oklahoma has pretty much the same statistical opportunity to produce football players as Connecticut. As Bud Wilkinson, Sooner's Hall of Fame former coach once indicated, " If there were no Texas, there would be no college football in Oklahoma."

One other thing is pertinent. Only Connecticut has to deal with the CIAC and restrictions it places on a coach's access to players.

This is exactly what I was saying. There is no advantage of being in Oklahoma if you're Tulsa. Furthermore, there may even be a disadvantage from the standpoint that the majority of Oklahoman prospects will likely choose OU or OSU if given the choice, whereas UConn is the "state U". We still have to compete with other schools for our biggest recruits, but we should be able to grab at least 5 of our top10 every year...

 

[BNich]

Let me know next time we haul in a 4-star QB. I'll be very happy if I'm proven wrong.

Kid played WR. How he is a 4 star QB is interesting. "President is a consensus four-star prospect and is rated as the No. 240 player nationally, the No. 29 wide receiver in the country, and the No. 35 player in the state of Texas, according to the 247Sports composite rankings. Despite the classification as a wide receiver or an athlete, President will play quarterback at Tulsa."

Good for them. But I don't think they're getting a 4 star QB.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Good for them. But I don't think they're getting a 4 star QB.

Simple, Tulsa did not receive a commitment from a kid with a 4 star rating as a QB. They recruited a kid who played WR well enough some purported ratings gurus view him as a 4 star athlete. Apparently, Tulsa's coaches believe he will be a QB and perhaps a good QB. Time will tell ...

 

[Louis]

Simple, Tulsa did not receive a commitment from a kid with a 4 star rating as a QB. They recruited a kid who played WR well enough some purported ratings gurus view him as a 4 star athlete. Apparently, Tulsa's coaches believe he will be a QB and perhaps a good QB. Time will tell ...

Just watched Tyler Murphy (from CT) play QB for BC in a BOWL game, this after he played QB at Florida. I guess UConn couldn't use him?

 

[UconnFamily]

It's largely symantecs at this point, but the star system does not matter. Talent does.

UCONN beat programs like Pitt, ND, WVU, USC, UVA, Louisville, etc. partially because we were more talented. The stars would suggest that would have been an impossibility.

Most talented players gain the 3, 4, and 5 stars, so your still proven that the star system matters.

 

[UconnFamily]

Huh??

We won two conference championships in a conference where the recruiting sites regularly ranked us last in recruiting in conference.

As for Temple, WMU, Towson I can only reference P. In 2012 he had a defense in which every single starter ended up either drafted by or in an NFL camp. He also had two future NFL players on the offense. All those players by the way we're ...you guessed it....2 star recruits. How he screwed that season is beyond my comprehension.

Not true, Dwayne Graz was a high 3 star, Sio Moore was a 3 star, Smallwood was 3 star.

 

[UconnFamily]

What does it have to do with anything? I feel like I'm going crazy on this thread, and I may bail on it very soon.

What it has to do with anything is simply this: a team full of 2's has a lower probability of winning a game against a team full of 4's. Period. End of story.

What it has to do with Tulsa? Only God knows. Tulsa has a 4-star QB in this year's recruiting class. Good for them. Outside of that kid, the rest of their 2015 recruiting class is entirely made up of 2's. Entirely. I like our chances against them...

https://tulsa com/

The rest of their recruiting class is mad up of 2 star players, but their not his recruits. President, who is a 4 star QB is his recruit and I think Montgomery will bring in a lot more 3's and 4's than 2's.

UConn always had a difficult time with dual threat QB's, if President is their starter I don't know about our chances.

 

[hjoerring]

I hear ya, but at the same time look at where we mainly recruit from: NJ, PA, FL, and CT ( CT has about 2 or 3 four star players a year ). I don't think our foot print is that much slimmer than Tulsa.

Are you saying that they should be Conn bound? I would think the opposite. These '3 to 4' players are aggressively recruited nationally. We are not where we can expect players to stay at home. As for FB country: TX, Ala, etc., after the bigs have had their pickings there are enough meat on the bones to build a good program.

 

[sub legacy]

Just watched Tyler Murphy (from CT) play QB for BC in a BOWL game, this after he played QB at Florida. I guess UConn couldn't use him?

He probably wasn't interested. Who could blame him. He went somewhere where he knew he was likely to start in his final season of eligibility. Not to mention UCONN was going through a major coaching transition a year ago; going from a floundering, over the hill head coach to a first time head coach. No wonder Boston College was more appealing.

 

[Uconnalliance]

My head hurts reading this thread!!! Hearing the submarine dive sound in the distance.

 

[Dogged]

Before this thread dies, I'd like to go on record saying I'd rather have a team of healthy 2 stars than a team of 4 stars with lower leg injuries....maybe.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Just watched Tyler Murphy (from CT) play QB for BC in a BOWL game, this after he played QB at Florida. I guess UConn couldn't use him?

Yeah, the reason he was a Gator (and later moved on to BC) was because UConn didn't want him..

 

[huskymedic]

No wonder Boston College was more appealing.

Wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that Addazzio recruited him to UF and was his OC would it??

(And he did have a UConn offer coming out of HS in 2010 but UConn staff was looking at him as a safety).

 

[CTBasketball]

I don't understand how people think stars don't matter. Of course they matter, as Dan pointed out, in terms of probability and projecting how good they'll be. Show me an annual and consistent Top 25 program that consistently recruits 2 and 3 stars.

 

[noeynox]

UConn recruited Murphy as a DB and the kid was willing to go FCS to be a quarterback.

I don't understand how people think stars don't matter. Of course they matter, as Dan pointed out, in terms of probability and projecting how good they'll be. Show me an annual and consistent Top 25 program that consistently recruits 2 and 3 stars.

Its not that starts don't matter, but that is a relatively new industry. Before stars were being assigned, Nebraska and Miami were kicking ass, because they were getting the best players.

Furthermore, UConn needs to follow a blue print closer to Boise State's than anyone else, because four stars are not going to start flocking here in droves. We never got them at any significant level when we were in a BCS conference, were certainly not going to start getting them in this conference.

As for Murphy, he wanted to play QB, and was willing to go FCS to do so, we wanted him as a DB. He was right he was a college QB.

 

[CTBasketball]

UConn recruited Murphy as a DB and the kid was willing to go FCS to be a quarterback.

Its not that starts don't matter, but that is a relatively new industry. Before stars were being assigned, Nebraska and Miami were kicking ass, because they were getting the best players.

Furthermore, UConn needs to follow a blue print closer to Boise State's than anyone else, because four stars are not going to start flocking here in droves. We never got them at any significant level when we were in a BCS conference, were certainly not going to start getting them in this conference.

As for Murphy, he wanted to play QB, and was willing to go FCS to do so, we wanted him as a DB. He was right he was a college QB.

Agree - you need to recruit to your team's strengths and overall philosophy. Look at Oregon, they recruit a lot of 3 star and lower-tier 4 star players just because they fit into their up-tempo offense. As for UConn, recruiting anyone of 3 star or higher will result in a better team, regardless of what our style is. Because quite frankly I don't know what our style is - I don't think Diaco knows what he wants to do either.

 

[Gampeltiles]

Schools like Tulsa actually have legitimate shots at 4-star players. Look where they're mainly recruiting from: Texas, Oklahoma, and a few guys from Arkansas. The pickings are much slimmer in our footprint, meaning our margin for error in program perception amongst recruits is non-existent. So as long as the team keeps losing and the media keeps treating us like the butt of the joke, we have no choice but to cross our fingers that our 2-star recruits are 2-stars by virtue of not being scouted rather than being unskilled.

Waiting for Tulsa to the Big12 push.

 

[sub legacy]

Agree - you need to recruit to your team's strengths and overall philosophy. Look at Oregon, they recruit a lot of 3 star and lower-tier 4 star players just because they fit into their up-tempo offense. As for UConn, recruiting anyone of 3 star or higher will result in a better team, regardless of what our style is. Because quite frankly I don't know what our style is - I don't think Diaco knows what he wants to do either.

That appears to be a bigger part of the problem right there's; this programs general inability to forge an identity for itself and stick to it.

 

[uconndogs]

At the risk of repeating myself, the vast majority of 4 and 5 star kids go to the top 15-20 programs. I would argue that those programs drive the ratings of those kids and not the recruiting sites, but regardless, many of those kids are so talented it's a pretty easy call to make that they have a high probability of success in college.

After that, the rest of the programs in the country are trying to assess kids that can play at this level - the 2 and 3 stars if you will. The recruiting sites have neither the resources nor the expertise to assess those kids. Throw in the fact that many are still physically developing and you really have a crapshoot on your hands. Rating those kids and the classes for each program is pure folly. One program is ranked 40 and another 75, please.....

TOS had a writer named Dallas Jackson a few years back. In a true jackass move he publicly posted that he did not think Robbie Frey would be a very good college player. He spoke with much conviction and "expertise". In an exchange online I kindly told him he was full of and to lay off the kid in a public forum. One of his responses was to point out that they had called Vince Young correctly.....you know, 6'5", sub 4.40, rocket arm Vince Young. Tough call that one. Robbie Frey was a terrific college football player and his time from scrimmage was limited as he waited behind two NFL bound running backs. He was also one of the fastest players in college football.

UCONN in the AAC is only going to be successful recruiting much the way Edsall did. Kids largely off the radar of the major programs that are exceptional athletes and can be developed into great football players in a good scheme. There is plenty of talent out there to do this. It's hard work for sure, but it has been done and can be done again.