Trying to make sense of the carnage

[businesslawyer]

And they will fail to reach Uconn standards also. People act like what JC did was easy. As easy as finding the right coach. I would bet there's probably a handful of coaches that could come here and get it back to where we all want it. And those guys are probably happy where they are. JC is gone and so is our program as we knew it, but that doesn't mean it can't be successful and Ollie is the right guy in my opinion. It's just gonna take time.

The only part you're wrong about is thinking there are a handful of coaches out there who could take over UConn and actually accomplish what Calhoun did, even with the starting line having been pushed ahead by Calhoun. Maybe there is one. Maybe.

It is about getting a successful coach, not replacing Calhoun. Calhoun can not be replaced. Anyone who will run off anyone who doesn't achieve what Calhoun did will be running off our coaches for the rest of their live for no purpose. We need a coach who can be successful here over a long term. Calhoun thought it would be KO. He may or may not prove right. We're not yet at the point where you can be sure.

 

[Tenspro2002]

None of it rests on Manuel. It wasn't a question of him having the spine to tell JC it was time for him to move on so a proper search could be run. He didn't have the authority from his bosses to do that. For absolutely good and understandable reasons.

That may be the case.

And if KO flames out and this program never returns to the level we've become accustomed to, that will absolutely tarnish JC's legacy.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

Wasn't there a year around 2006-2007 where Calhoun had to essentially go through a house cleaning/transfer process as well and that led us to the 2009 Detroit Final Four? I'm hopeful this will lead to similar results.

 

[husky99]

It shouldn't be necessary that KO be an x's and o's genuis to be a good coach. Not with staffs the size of a D-1 program. It would have been fine if Miller was capable of designing the O and D, and communicating it to KO during games. The fact that KO has pushed Miller out tells you that KO didn't think that was working.

What Calhoun was far, far greater at than X's and O's was looking at his roster, and then determining how the team was going to play, what the rotation was going to be and what players were going to have what roles. That is an art, not a science. X's and O's is more of a science -- it can be learned. I think the eye for building a team that JC had you are either born with or you are not.

My far bigger fear about KO is whether he is good enough at being able to look at all the paints and brushes on the first day of practice, and figure out what the final painting should look like and how you get there. It would be tremendously unfair to say that he probably won't be as good at it as JC, because that implies that anyone would be that good of it and no one was or is (and don't talk about Woodens and Ks who have rosters of McDonalds AAs to create a team from). But I think it is more than fair to ask if KO is ever going to be good enough at it.

I was not implying that x's and o's was the only issue there are many issues. I made reference to huddles and game plans

 

[Kembacity]

I think I'm still waiting for Ollie to have a full stable of players to have at his disposal. I kind of feel like Ollie hasn't had the luxury of depth that Calhoun used to have to really yank players when they made a bad decision. I think that this quick yank was integral in Calhoun's ability to teach players lessons during games as the season progresses. I'm hoping that next year we have a little bit better depth but I understand that might be hard with the recent defections.

Another thing I hope Ollie shows us is flat out anger. In many many games this season I and I know others have felt we've been getting an unfair call from the refs. I want Ollie to just get that T when we've had 2-3 touch fouls called on us while our guys drive the lane, get knocked and get no call. Obviously you don't want T's when its getting down to the last few minutes of the game, but I kind of miss the days of Calhoun going off. Maybe he gets a T and we go from down 4 to down 6, but it always felt like the calls would come back after it, or the guys would be fired up by their coach get fiery. You can tell Ollie has that fire, I want him to let the refs have it next season, you aren't a rookie coach anymore, give it to them!

 

[tzznandrew]

Wasn't there a year around 2006-2007 where Calhoun had to essentially go through a house cleaning/transfer process as well and that led us to the 2009 Detroit Final Four? I'm hopeful this will lead to similar results.

It was more the 2009-2010 team clearing out for the 2010-2011 championship run.

 

[Confident Carl]

There was something wrong with last year's squad from the get go. People gloss over it because of the injuries but this team was outplayed (and lost) to Wagner and Northeastern. It wasn't a fluke, they did it twice. And this was a team with three seniors on the floor and a top five recruiting class. Preseason #18.

They played very softly with little intensity. They were sloppy, they gave up open shots and couldn't knock down open shots, and they were so-so or less on the boards.

I am happy the team has been gutted. It had to be done. But did they solve the problem?

Ollie's team's have always started slowly in conference. This year they started slowly against the cupcakes. That is not moving in the right direction. It's been a long time since we had a strong regular season. We need one. We tend to forget that Ollie is a first time head coach. He has never been through this. How he responds and how the team responds to him will be very telling. And we should have the answer by January. Until then it's all just noise.

Bingo - Too many Injuries - Need to get stronger- Strength coach fired
Toughness - Heart - Physical- Rebounding
Defense - Ollie losing rim protectors wants relentless D

You want to win National championships now, this is what we need. We need maturity
And leadership which is why I like having those 5th year seniors.

Losing Jackson and Enoch hurt at first but I am convinced that if Ollie uses a three guard attack he needs space eaters and tough strong bodies underneath. Don't underestimate KO's demand for toughness. Like Geno says, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Don't get me wrong, I saw good athleticism In Jackson and Enoch. Maybe they would have gotten tougher, they are young, who knows? But if you take a look at South Carolina's team, who I picked as National Champion, this I believe is the kind of powerful team that KO envisions. Listen to what coach K said about South Carolina!

Great technique, heart, toughness: Coach K tips cap to Gamecocks

 

[JMick]

Bingo - Too many Injuries - Need to get stronger- Strength coach fired
Toughness - Heart - Physical- Rebounding
Defense - Ollie losing rim protectors wants relentless D

You want to win National championships now, this is what we need. We need maturity
And leadership which is why I like having those 5th year seniors.

Losing Jackson and Enoch hurt at first but I am convinced that if Ollie uses a three guard attack he needs space eaters and tough strong bodies underneath. Don't underestimate KO's demand for toughness. Like Geno says, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Don't get me wrong, I saw good athleticism In Jackson and Enoch. Maybe they would have gotten tougher, they are young, who knows? But if you take a look at South Carolina's team, who I picked as National Champion, this I believe is the kind of powerful team that KO envisions. Listen to what coach K said about South Carolina!

Great technique, heart, toughness: Coach K tips cap to Gamecocks

Everyone keeps mentioning 3 guard rotations which I think we should and will see, but our guards are small. It would be nice to add a 6'4/6'5 true SG. Granted, the staff tried with Diallo...

 

[tzznandrew]

Everyone keeps mentioning 3 guard rotations which I think we should and will see, but our guards are small. It would be nice to add a 6'4/6'5 true SG. Granted, the staff tried with Diallo...

And if you really want a 3 guard line up with any consistency, you really need a fifth guard.

 

[businesslawyer]

Wasn't there a year around 2006-2007 where Calhoun had to essentially go through a house cleaning/transfer process as well and that led us to the 2009 Detroit Final Four? I'm hopeful this will lead to similar results.

I don't think so. After '06, we lost our entire starting 5 and 7 of the 9 guys really in the rotation (keeping only Adrien and Austrie) to the draft and graduation. We had to start again. The team that lined up for the 06-07 season was maybe the worst team we had post '90 until this year, but its core of Thabeet, Adrien, Sticks, AJ Price and Dyson (with Craig and Edwards on the bench) became 8 of the 9 rotation players who 3 years later were in the Final Four.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

I don't think so. After '06, we lost our entire starting 5 and 7 of the 9 guys really in the rotation (keeping only Adrien and Austrie) to the draft and graduation. We had to start again. The team that lined up for the 06-07 season was maybe the worst team we had post '90 until this year, but its core of Thabeet, Adrien, Sticks, AJ Price and Dyson (with Craig and Edwards on the bench) became 8 of the 9 rotation players who 3 years later were in the Final Four.

had to go back and look a little but I thought we cleaned out Doug Wiggins, Ben Eaves and Rob Garrison that year (all transferred). Then Curtis Kelly like a year later.

 

[Inyatkin]

Well, you know what? They did. So there's really no use whining about it.

It's not like we were exactly in top form when this coaching change happened, either. People forget how bleak things were in 2012

 

[businesslawyer]

had to go back and look a little but I thought we cleaned out Doug Wiggins, Ben Eaves and Rob Garrison that year (all transferred). Then Curtis Kelly like a year later.

Maybe it's definitional. If by "cleaned out" you meant let guys who weren't going to be key rotation players leave to go somewhere that fit their talent level better, than yes. But in this day and age, if you're talking about non-contributors moving on that is happening everywhere at every level of D-1.

 

[uconnever]

The only part you're wrong about is thinking there are a handful of coaches out there who could take over UConn and actually accomplish what Calhoun did, even with the starting line having been pushed ahead by Calhoun. Maybe there is one. Maybe.

It is about getting a successful coach, not replacing Calhoun. Calhoun can not be replaced. Anyone who will run off anyone who doesn't achieve what Calhoun did will be running off our coaches for the rest of their live for no purpose. We need a coach who can be successful here over a long term. Calhoun thought it would be KO. He may or may not prove right. We're not yet at the point where you can be sure.

You just said what I said. Ollie needs more time.

 

[Towney007]

If that's your reasoning it's not very smart for many reasons but here are a few of them 1) it's wrong because Larrier played a full year at VCU, 2) the idea of having Adams for maybe 1 more year is better than Gilbert than 4, and 3) if you watched the first 3 games of the year when they played and didn't see their potential then I gotta question your ability to judge talent

Gilbert played about 50 minutes of college basketball this year and while what I saw was perfectly fine, it wasn't game-changing. Based on the fact that he missed an entire year's worth of development, has a shoulder injury that just keeps reoccurring and is playing for a staff that pretty much whiffed in every way possible this year - I'd hope you'd understand why some people would be skeptical as to this being anything you can depend on. I liked what I saw from but again - more of the same. He's played 4 college basketball games in two years. If that's what you're putting your hopes and dreams in, good luck.

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

 

[Jerry1714]

Gilbert played about 50 minutes of college basketball this year and while what I saw was perfectly fine, it wasn't game-changing. Based on the fact that he missed an entire year's worth of development, has a shoulder injury that just keeps reoccurring and is playing for a staff that pretty much whiffed in every way possible this year - I'd hope you'd understand why some people would be skeptical as to this being anything you can depend on. I liked what I saw from but again - more of the same. He's played 4 college basketball games in two years. If that's what you're putting your hopes and dreams in, good luck.

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

Gilbert had a better offensive rating in 2 of his 3 games he shared the floor with Adams, same with Larrier. Your statement that Adams is the only player that is not completely replaceable is 100% wrong. Simple as that.

I am not putting my hopes and dreams on anything, go out and find me a Larrier and Gilbert (two former McDs AAs) that will sign with UConn for next year, since you know they are completely replaceable.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

I think 1,4,5 and 8 are perfectly reasonable to expect. #'s 2 and 3 should easily happen also, provided the patients, surgeons and rehab therapists all did their jobs.
That leaves "find anything resembling a frontcourt," and "add a wing or two."

Chillious?

 

[Towney007]

Gilbert had a better offensive rating in 2 of his 3 games he shared the floor with Adams, same with Larrier. Your statement that Adams is the only player that is not completely replaceable is 100% wrong. Simple as that.

I am not putting my hopes and dreams on anything, go out and find me a Larrier and Gilbert (two former McDs AAs) that will sign with UConn for next year, since you know they are completely replaceable.

Oh stop it. Being a McDonald's All American is nice, but i'd much rather see guys have success on a college basketball court, first.

One guy has been perpetually injured for two years. The other guy has transferred, then promptly became a 6'8 tall human being with a torn ACL.

Shouldn't be hard to find a guy who is a talented transfer (hey - we already created two for someone else) and a talented freshman guard who may or may not contribute his first year (Oh, we do). There. Already done.

I appreciate the optimism, and sure - I expect some of these 'If's' to turn out fine, but some just won't.

Last year the narrative was

-Oh, this year Larrier will play (he didn't)
-Oh, this year we'll have a dedicated point guard (we didn't)
-We'll be much better up front because Enoch should improve and Brimah put on some pounds (nope)
-We'll have more depth because of a deep, talented core of freshman coming in (ha!)
-RODNEY WILL BE BETTER (oy)

So i'm just done climbing ladders of 'if's' and 'probably should's' and 'oh, surely this will fix THAT's' in another goofy attempt to bottle up fake optimism.


If a substantial part of your season is resting on the success of one oft-injured guy and another, albeit talented guy who's played 4 games in two years, then the chances are - in the overwhelming number of cases in team sports - that you're probably not going to be very good; or at the very least - being overly optimistic is probably going to lead to disappointment. There's nothing negative about that. It's grasping the reality of the situation that's slapping you across the face.

 

[Jerry1714]

Oh stop it. Being a McDonald's All American is nice, but i'd much rather see guys have success on a college basketball court, first.

One guy has been perpetually injured for two years. The other guy has transferred, then promptly became a 6'8 tall human being with a torn ACL.

Shouldn't be hard to find a guy who is a talented transfer (hey - we already created two for someone else) and a talented freshman guard who may or may not contribute his first year (Oh, we do). There. Already done.

I appreciate the optimism, and sure - I expect some of these 'If's' to turn out fine, but some just won't.

Last year the narrative was

-Oh, this year Larrier will play (he didn't)
-Oh, this year we'll have a dedicated point guard (we didn't)
-We'll be much better up front because Enoch should improve and Brimah put on some pounds (nope)
-We'll have more depth because of a deep, talented core of freshman coming in (ha!)
-RODNEY WILL BE BETTER (oy)

So i'm just done climbing ladders of 'if's' and 'probably should's' and 'oh, surely this will fix THAT's' in another goofy attempt to bottle up fake optimism.


If a substantial part of your season is resting on the success of one oft-injured guy and another, albeit talented guy who's played 4 games in two years, then the chances are - in the overwhelming number of cases in team sports - that you're probably not going to be very good; or at the very least - being overly optimistic is probably going to lead to disappointment. There's nothing negative about that. It's grasping the reality of the situation that's slapping you across the face.

You babble on about points that have nothing to do with the ridiculous nature of the post I commented about, replaceable players. If Gilbert and Larrier left tomorrow UConn is not bringing in some transfer who is as good of players as them. Not sure why this concept is so difficult for you to grasp.

 

[kemba]

That may be the case.

And if KO flames out and this program never returns to the level we've become accustomed to, that will absolutely tarnish JC's legacy.

He already won a national championship. Unless you don't like winning national championships, Ollie already proved JC right he was the right guy to hire.

That doesn't mean he has a lifetime job, he needs to get us back to where we were, but he's already accomplished more than a lot of people thought we'd ever do post JC.

 

[jibsey]

Gilbert played about 50 minutes of college basketball this year and while what I saw was perfectly fine, it wasn't game-changing. Based on the fact that he missed an entire year's worth of development, has a shoulder injury that just keeps reoccurring and is playing for a staff that pretty much whiffed in every way possible this year - I'd hope you'd understand why some people would be skeptical as to this being anything you can depend on. I liked what I saw from but again - more of the same. He's played 4 college basketball games in two years. If that's what you're putting your hopes and dreams in, good luck.

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

Our roster can't stay the way it is for us to have a good season, I'm not kidding here. I really don't know what others expect but as bad as our front court was last year this is worse, much worse and Vance was a big forward who rebounded when in there. We need 2 quality players, a center and a 4. I don't buy into Durham gaining 25 pounds, that's not happening. I have great confidence in Jalen and Vital but the others haven't done anything yet. We could be good but bad seems more likely.

 

[Towney007]

You babble on about points that have nothing to do with the ridiculous nature of the post I commented about, replaceable players. If Gilbert and Larrier left tomorrow UConn is not bringing in some transfer who is as good of players as them. Not sure why this concept is so difficult for you to grasp.

You're the one who is clinging to the idea that two guys who have barely played basketball in two years aren't replaceable.

They are infinitely replaceable. By players who've played college basketball. Trust me - I hope I'm colossally wrong. But acting as if they're in any way replaceable is silly.

 

[Towney007]

Our roster can't stay the way it is for us to have a good season, I'm not kidding here. I really don't know what others expect but as bad as our front court was last year this is worse, much worse and Vance was a big forward who rebounded when in there. We need 2 quality players, a center and a 4. I don't buy into Durham gaining 25 pounds, that's not happening. I have great confidence in Jalen and Vital but the others haven't done anything yet. We could be good but bad seems more likely.

That's where I'm at. The roster's stuffed with dudes with a lot of raw tools - but only one of them has really demonstrated themselves to be the kind of player that's indispensable on a championship-caliber/tournament caliber team and that's Adams. I'm optimistic Vital is pretty good before all is said and done. But outside of that, literally every single player on the roster is a *total* question mark. I mean look - this was obviously a crappy season for a whole slew of reasons - some controllable, some completely out of control of the program. But when your roster is one, maybe two guys who you can have a substantial faith in producing for you next year - this idea that the team is going to magically be OK is absolutely freaking bananas. Equally as good a chance that this team rolls snake eyes again next year as much as everything clicks and they're a huge bounce back team. I could conceivably buy either scenario in a given set of circumstances, but to me there's too much 'who knows' next year for me to have any kind of offense that it's the year they take a big step forward.

One thing going for them I'll say - is that the conference doesn't look so hot next year. So we'll see. But there isn't a player on this roster outside of Adams and Vital I'd marry myself to.

 

[Jerry1714]

You're the one who is clinging to the idea that two guys who have barely played basketball in two years aren't replaceable.

They are infinitely replaceable. By players who've played college basketball. Trust me - I hope I'm colossally wrong. But acting as if they're in any way replaceable is silly.

First Larrier only played 4 college games, wrong, now Gilbert hasn't played in 2 years, also wrong. Yes, you are who I should trust when it comes to this subject.

Hard to argue with someone who has no idea what their talking about to support their position that no one else who has watched These players agree with.

 

[Towney007]

First Larrier only played 4 college games, wrong, now Gilbert hasn't played in 2 years, also wrong.

Are you stunted or one of these two dudes' cousins or something?

Terry Larrier: Sat out the 2015-2016 season. This is a year. This is factually correct.
Terry Larrier: Played in four games in the 2016-2017 season. This is also a year. This is factually correct.

Add the top column to the bottom column. And you get what?

2 seasons. 4 games.

Alterique Gilbert: Played in three games this year. One of which he was injured early in the first half.

Between the two - they have played a combined seven games of college basketball.

It is not a stupid opinion to think that they're not going to be automatically successful.

Reason #1: Because they've both been injured. One of whom - has been constantly injured.
Reason #2: Neither guy has played a substantial amount of college basketball (in Larrier's case - it's been two years before he saw weekly competition).
Reason #3: Playing time = development time. Both have lacked that.

I'd like to think their talent shines through. I hope their talent shines through. But I wouldn't count on their talent shining through. It's not going to automatically happen because they're them.

that no one else who has watched These players

This can't possibly be serious. Top 100 guys and transfer players don't pan out all the time. We just watched one leave who didn't. And the results he produced on the floor probably contradicted the position that everyone else who had watched those players agreed with.