Trying to make sense of the carnage

[Uconn77Duke74]

I don't think so. After '06, we lost our entire starting 5 and 7 of the 9 guys really in the rotation (keeping only Adrien and Austrie) to the draft and graduation. We had to start again. The team that lined up for the 06-07 season was maybe the worst team we had post '90 until this year, but its core of Thabeet, Adrien, Sticks, AJ Price and Dyson (with Craig and Edwards on the bench) became 8 of the 9 rotation players who 3 years later were in the Final Four.

had to go back and look a little but I thought we cleaned out Doug Wiggins, Ben Eaves and Rob Garrison that year (all transferred). Then Curtis Kelly like a year later.

 

[Inyatkin]

Well, you know what? They did. So there's really no use whining about it.

It's not like we were exactly in top form when this coaching change happened, either. People forget how bleak things were in 2012

 

[businesslawyer]

had to go back and look a little but I thought we cleaned out Doug Wiggins, Ben Eaves and Rob Garrison that year (all transferred). Then Curtis Kelly like a year later.

Maybe it's definitional. If by "cleaned out" you meant let guys who weren't going to be key rotation players leave to go somewhere that fit their talent level better, than yes. But in this day and age, if you're talking about non-contributors moving on that is happening everywhere at every level of D-1.

 

[uconnever]

The only part you're wrong about is thinking there are a handful of coaches out there who could take over UConn and actually accomplish what Calhoun did, even with the starting line having been pushed ahead by Calhoun. Maybe there is one. Maybe.

It is about getting a successful coach, not replacing Calhoun. Calhoun can not be replaced. Anyone who will run off anyone who doesn't achieve what Calhoun did will be running off our coaches for the rest of their live for no purpose. We need a coach who can be successful here over a long term. Calhoun thought it would be KO. He may or may not prove right. We're not yet at the point where you can be sure.

You just said what I said. Ollie needs more time.

 

[Towney007]

If that's your reasoning it's not very smart for many reasons but here are a few of them 1) it's wrong because Larrier played a full year at VCU, 2) the idea of having Adams for maybe 1 more year is better than Gilbert than 4, and 3) if you watched the first 3 games of the year when they played and didn't see their potential then I gotta question your ability to judge talent

Gilbert played about 50 minutes of college basketball this year and while what I saw was perfectly fine, it wasn't game-changing. Based on the fact that he missed an entire year's worth of development, has a shoulder injury that just keeps reoccurring and is playing for a staff that pretty much whiffed in every way possible this year - I'd hope you'd understand why some people would be skeptical as to this being anything you can depend on. I liked what I saw from but again - more of the same. He's played 4 college basketball games in two years. If that's what you're putting your hopes and dreams in, good luck.

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

 

[Jerry1714]

Gilbert played about 50 minutes of college basketball this year and while what I saw was perfectly fine, it wasn't game-changing. Based on the fact that he missed an entire year's worth of development, has a shoulder injury that just keeps reoccurring and is playing for a staff that pretty much whiffed in every way possible this year - I'd hope you'd understand why some people would be skeptical as to this being anything you can depend on. I liked what I saw from but again - more of the same. He's played 4 college basketball games in two years. If that's what you're putting your hopes and dreams in, good luck.

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

Gilbert had a better offensive rating in 2 of his 3 games he shared the floor with Adams, same with Larrier. Your statement that Adams is the only player that is not completely replaceable is 100% wrong. Simple as that.

I am not putting my hopes and dreams on anything, go out and find me a Larrier and Gilbert (two former McDs AAs) that will sign with UConn for next year, since you know they are completely replaceable.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

I think 1,4,5 and 8 are perfectly reasonable to expect. #'s 2 and 3 should easily happen also, provided the patients, surgeons and rehab therapists all did their jobs.
That leaves "find anything resembling a frontcourt," and "add a wing or two."

Chillious?

 

[Towney007]

Gilbert had a better offensive rating in 2 of his 3 games he shared the floor with Adams, same with Larrier. Your statement that Adams is the only player that is not completely replaceable is 100% wrong. Simple as that.

I am not putting my hopes and dreams on anything, go out and find me a Larrier and Gilbert (two former McDs AAs) that will sign with UConn for next year, since you know they are completely replaceable.

Oh stop it. Being a McDonald's All American is nice, but i'd much rather see guys have success on a college basketball court, first.

One guy has been perpetually injured for two years. The other guy has transferred, then promptly became a 6'8 tall human being with a torn ACL.

Shouldn't be hard to find a guy who is a talented transfer (hey - we already created two for someone else) and a talented freshman guard who may or may not contribute his first year (Oh, we do). There. Already done.

I appreciate the optimism, and sure - I expect some of these 'If's' to turn out fine, but some just won't.

Last year the narrative was

-Oh, this year Larrier will play (he didn't)
-Oh, this year we'll have a dedicated point guard (we didn't)
-We'll be much better up front because Enoch should improve and Brimah put on some pounds (nope)
-We'll have more depth because of a deep, talented core of freshman coming in (ha!)
-RODNEY WILL BE BETTER (oy)

So i'm just done climbing ladders of 'if's' and 'probably should's' and 'oh, surely this will fix THAT's' in another goofy attempt to bottle up fake optimism.


If a substantial part of your season is resting on the success of one oft-injured guy and another, albeit talented guy who's played 4 games in two years, then the chances are - in the overwhelming number of cases in team sports - that you're probably not going to be very good; or at the very least - being overly optimistic is probably going to lead to disappointment. There's nothing negative about that. It's grasping the reality of the situation that's slapping you across the face.

 

[Jerry1714]

Oh stop it. Being a McDonald's All American is nice, but i'd much rather see guys have success on a college basketball court, first.

One guy has been perpetually injured for two years. The other guy has transferred, then promptly became a 6'8 tall human being with a torn ACL.

Shouldn't be hard to find a guy who is a talented transfer (hey - we already created two for someone else) and a talented freshman guard who may or may not contribute his first year (Oh, we do). There. Already done.

I appreciate the optimism, and sure - I expect some of these 'If's' to turn out fine, but some just won't.

Last year the narrative was

-Oh, this year Larrier will play (he didn't)
-Oh, this year we'll have a dedicated point guard (we didn't)
-We'll be much better up front because Enoch should improve and Brimah put on some pounds (nope)
-We'll have more depth because of a deep, talented core of freshman coming in (ha!)
-RODNEY WILL BE BETTER (oy)

So i'm just done climbing ladders of 'if's' and 'probably should's' and 'oh, surely this will fix THAT's' in another goofy attempt to bottle up fake optimism.


If a substantial part of your season is resting on the success of one oft-injured guy and another, albeit talented guy who's played 4 games in two years, then the chances are - in the overwhelming number of cases in team sports - that you're probably not going to be very good; or at the very least - being overly optimistic is probably going to lead to disappointment. There's nothing negative about that. It's grasping the reality of the situation that's slapping you across the face.

You babble on about points that have nothing to do with the ridiculous nature of the post I commented about, replaceable players. If Gilbert and Larrier left tomorrow UConn is not bringing in some transfer who is as good of players as them. Not sure why this concept is so difficult for you to grasp.

 

[kemba]

That may be the case.

And if KO flames out and this program never returns to the level we've become accustomed to, that will absolutely tarnish JC's legacy.

He already won a national championship. Unless you don't like winning national championships, Ollie already proved JC right he was the right guy to hire.

That doesn't mean he has a lifetime job, he needs to get us back to where we were, but he's already accomplished more than a lot of people thought we'd ever do post JC.

 

[jibsey]

Gilbert played about 50 minutes of college basketball this year and while what I saw was perfectly fine, it wasn't game-changing. Based on the fact that he missed an entire year's worth of development, has a shoulder injury that just keeps reoccurring and is playing for a staff that pretty much whiffed in every way possible this year - I'd hope you'd understand why some people would be skeptical as to this being anything you can depend on. I liked what I saw from but again - more of the same. He's played 4 college basketball games in two years. If that's what you're putting your hopes and dreams in, good luck.

Sure this team COULD be good.

IF Jalen hangs around and continues to grow
IF Larrier pans out and plays well
IF Gilbert can stay healthy and contribute as - ostensibly - a first year player
IF MAL can come in and contribute a little off the bench
IF Diarra can stay healthy and contribute in ostensibly HIS first year of college basketball
IF they can find anything resembling a front court
IF they can add a wing or two
IF Vital and Durham can make a step forward

But that's about 8 'if's' - and that's around the guys already here. I'm not sure this team wins 20 games next year, to be honest. Talent and whatnot is certainly there for them to win 30+, but right now, projecting anything over 20 wins (if that) with that many issues is crackers.

Our roster can't stay the way it is for us to have a good season, I'm not kidding here. I really don't know what others expect but as bad as our front court was last year this is worse, much worse and Vance was a big forward who rebounded when in there. We need 2 quality players, a center and a 4. I don't buy into Durham gaining 25 pounds, that's not happening. I have great confidence in Jalen and Vital but the others haven't done anything yet. We could be good but bad seems more likely.

 

[Towney007]

You babble on about points that have nothing to do with the ridiculous nature of the post I commented about, replaceable players. If Gilbert and Larrier left tomorrow UConn is not bringing in some transfer who is as good of players as them. Not sure why this concept is so difficult for you to grasp.

You're the one who is clinging to the idea that two guys who have barely played basketball in two years aren't replaceable.

They are infinitely replaceable. By players who've played college basketball. Trust me - I hope I'm colossally wrong. But acting as if they're in any way replaceable is silly.

 

[Towney007]

Our roster can't stay the way it is for us to have a good season, I'm not kidding here. I really don't know what others expect but as bad as our front court was last year this is worse, much worse and Vance was a big forward who rebounded when in there. We need 2 quality players, a center and a 4. I don't buy into Durham gaining 25 pounds, that's not happening. I have great confidence in Jalen and Vital but the others haven't done anything yet. We could be good but bad seems more likely.

That's where I'm at. The roster's stuffed with dudes with a lot of raw tools - but only one of them has really demonstrated themselves to be the kind of player that's indispensable on a championship-caliber/tournament caliber team and that's Adams. I'm optimistic Vital is pretty good before all is said and done. But outside of that, literally every single player on the roster is a *total* question mark. I mean look - this was obviously a crappy season for a whole slew of reasons - some controllable, some completely out of control of the program. But when your roster is one, maybe two guys who you can have a substantial faith in producing for you next year - this idea that the team is going to magically be OK is absolutely freaking bananas. Equally as good a chance that this team rolls snake eyes again next year as much as everything clicks and they're a huge bounce back team. I could conceivably buy either scenario in a given set of circumstances, but to me there's too much 'who knows' next year for me to have any kind of offense that it's the year they take a big step forward.

One thing going for them I'll say - is that the conference doesn't look so hot next year. So we'll see. But there isn't a player on this roster outside of Adams and Vital I'd marry myself to.

 

[Jerry1714]

You're the one who is clinging to the idea that two guys who have barely played basketball in two years aren't replaceable.

They are infinitely replaceable. By players who've played college basketball. Trust me - I hope I'm colossally wrong. But acting as if they're in any way replaceable is silly.

First Larrier only played 4 college games, wrong, now Gilbert hasn't played in 2 years, also wrong. Yes, you are who I should trust when it comes to this subject.

Hard to argue with someone who has no idea what their talking about to support their position that no one else who has watched These players agree with.

 

[Towney007]

First Larrier only played 4 college games, wrong, now Gilbert hasn't played in 2 years, also wrong.

Are you stunted or one of these two dudes' cousins or something?

Terry Larrier: Sat out the 2015-2016 season. This is a year. This is factually correct.
Terry Larrier: Played in four games in the 2016-2017 season. This is also a year. This is factually correct.

Add the top column to the bottom column. And you get what?

2 seasons. 4 games.

Alterique Gilbert: Played in three games this year. One of which he was injured early in the first half.

Between the two - they have played a combined seven games of college basketball.

It is not a stupid opinion to think that they're not going to be automatically successful.

Reason #1: Because they've both been injured. One of whom - has been constantly injured.
Reason #2: Neither guy has played a substantial amount of college basketball (in Larrier's case - it's been two years before he saw weekly competition).
Reason #3: Playing time = development time. Both have lacked that.

I'd like to think their talent shines through. I hope their talent shines through. But I wouldn't count on their talent shining through. It's not going to automatically happen because they're them.

that no one else who has watched These players

This can't possibly be serious. Top 100 guys and transfer players don't pan out all the time. We just watched one leave who didn't. And the results he produced on the floor probably contradicted the position that everyone else who had watched those players agreed with.

 

[CL82]

So he's in over his head. Sounds like Diaco, minus the crazy and stupidity.

If you take away the crazy and stupid from Diaco the only thing left is a pair of empty red pants.

 

[AdamaNation]

One guy has been perpetually injured for two years. The other guy has transferred, then promptly became a 6'8 tall human being with a torn ACL.







I hate your negative possible realism. But this made me laugh. Go prove him wrong terry! He wants that too!

 

[Towney007]

I really hope he does. ^^^

 

[Jerry1714]

I really hope he does. ^^^

You either have the worst command of the English language, no ability to read and comprehend, or you are very very slow. Not sure which one it is but its one of them.

You do not know what completely replaceable means, that is clear, so we can leave it at that.

You said Larrier has played 4 college games, Terry Larrier 2014-15 Game Log | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com. Wrong. Just stop trying to justify that. Also its 2017 not 1997, an ACL is not a career changing injury anymore, ask Al Jerfferon or Kyle Lowery.

Gilbert played his entire HS senior year, got hurt in the Jordan game, he has played basketball in the last two years.

Obviously you are not changing you opinion on these two being completely replaceable (which is idioctic but is what it is) but just stop with your wrong narratives.