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True Freshman

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I had a conversation not long ago with a certain CT sports writer who was wearing a BC shirt at the time. Wasn't sure where to share the specifics about the conversation but this seems like the best place based on the subject at hand. First thing that was mentioned when I asked about the coaching staff, was that he said they are FULLY aware that they must win and win now! Because of that, bets are off this season when it comes to red shirts and playing time. Whoever gives Uconn the best chance to win, will play regardless of their individual situation. Another thing he mentioned was the staff is REALLY high on Lagow and the feeling in Storrs is that he is the REAL deal!! I was pretty excited to hear that, no doubt because I think we all have high hopes for this kid. He also said that in no way would he be surprised if Lagow were playing at some point this season. I think this comment was based on the win at all costs environment in Storrs right now, coupled with Lagows big time potential. No earth shattering news here, but I thought I would just pass that along seeing that The Boneyard is the source of information starved fans.
 
In a perfect world, all QB playing time would be CW with Cochrane gettting some mop-up duty in blowout wins (I did say 'a perfect world').

twenty one years ago Tha U (before they were Tha U) redshirted Bernie Kosar while Vinny Testaverde was on the active roster (and played when Kelly went down) and one year later Vinny Redshirted while Bernie played as a RS frosh. I have a gut feeling that one of Lagow or Boyle will not end up redshirting this upcoming season but will in 2014.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
In a perfect world, all QB playing time would be CW with Cochrane gettting some mop-up duty in blowout wins (I did say 'a perfect world').

twenty one years ago Tha U (before they were Tha U) redshirted Bernie Kosar while Vinny Testaverde was on the active roster (and played when Kelly went down) and one year later Vinny Redshirted while Bernie played as a RS frosh. I have a gut feeling that one of Lagow or
Boyle will not end up redshirting this upcoming season but will in

I think it all depends on whitmer, if he starts off strong we may see some red shirts, barring any injuries.
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Let's just all hope Whitmer doesn't get hurt. Plenty of potential on the roster but 45 days out we have no evidence anyone else is ready to start at this level.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
In a perfect world, all QB playing time would be CW with Cochrane gettting some mop-up duty in blowout wins (I did say 'a perfect world').

twenty one years ago Tha U (before they were Tha U) redshirted Bernie Kosar while Vinny Testaverde was on the active roster (and played when Kelly went down) and one year later Vinny Redshirted while Bernie played as a RS frosh. I have a gut feeling that one of Lagow or Boyle will not end up redshirting this upcoming season but will in 2014.
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I agree with this. If Taylor is staying at QB, then it wouldn't be a disaster if one of the freshman played this year, then took a redshirt next year.
 
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Doggie Style said:
Who's Taylor?
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Kivon Taylor?

From UConn bio:

High School: Team captain as a senior and quarterback at Grady High School in Atlanta...selected to play in the 2012 Georgia All-Star Game...honored as a USA Academic All-America Team...named to the 2013 FBU International All-Star Game...led team to a 2012 GHSA AAAA Playoff appearance and a 9-4 record.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/633116/kivon-taylor
 
Doggie Style said:
Who's Taylor?
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Kivon Taylor...........I have already penciled him into the wideout group but he is listed online as a QB.....I don't get it though.....It almost makes me feel like they are trying to keep the wildcat around and Kivon is the new McCummings for the future. However keeping 6 QB's next year (Whitmer, Cochran, Boyle, Lagow, Taylor and Marchi) is too much in my opinion. One of those schollys could be better used elsewhere. So, if that's going to be the case for next year, why not change his position this year.
 
Tom Meyers and the O lineman from Florida, Schafenacker if I remember correctly, sounds like he could be a good get.
 
kcc1442 said:
Kivon Taylor...........I have already penciled him into the wideout group but he is listed online as a QB.....I don't get it though.....It almost makes me feel like they are trying to keep the wildcat around and Kivon is the new McCummings for the future. However keeping 6 QB's next year (Whitmer, Cochran, Boyle, Lagow, Taylor and Marchi) is too much in my opinion. One of those schollys could be better used elsewhere. So, if that's going to be the case for next year, why not change his position this year.
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Because he thinks he's a quarterback. They like him enough to give him the shot to prove it and if he isn't he slides to another spot.
 
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For this year - to play as true Freshman; Noel Thomas as either WR or Corner. I kinda like Thomas's defense more than his offense, great break to the ball on D. We need a TE out of the gate, so perhaps Mr General Athlete - Tommy Myers makes has an impact. I'm also interested to see both Boyle and Lagow. Hopefully one of these two really bring something special to the field.

Long term Lemelle and Hadley will be interesting.
 
whaler11 said:
Because he thinks he's a quarterback. They like him enough to give him the shot to prove it and if he isn't he slides to another spot.
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Yes..I was referring to Kivon Taylor. I think Whaler is right...redshirt freshman year is a perfect time to figure out if QB is his future.
 
I think the question of whether one of the freshman quarterbacks plays is really a function of how Whitmer plays. If he is steady and solid, and stays healthy, the liklihood of Lagow or Boyle or Taylor ever seeing the field is pretty low. Cochran remains the backup and maybe sees a little action in mop up duty. As an old time coach told me, every guy you play against in college was the best player on his high school team. That alone is reason to redshirt if possible. if the offense is a disaster, or there is an early season injury, that changes the equation some, but neither of those are likely, and I'd be pretty surprised to see any of the frosh play short of that.
 
freescooter said:
I think the question of whether one of the freshman quarterbacks plays is really a function of how Whitmer plays. If he is steady and solid, and stays healthy, the liklihood of Lagow or Boyle or Taylor ever seeing the field is pretty low. Cochran remains the backup and maybe sees a little action in mop up duty. As an old time coach told me, every guy you play against in college was the best player on his high school team. That alone is reason to redshirt if possible. if the offense is a disaster, or there is an early season injury, that changes the equation some, but neither of those are likely, and I'd be pretty surprised to see any of the frosh play short of that.
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I hope none of the current back ups see the field this season. IMO, it would be a good sign that Whitmer's getting the job done. Let them study and learn the system, improve their understanding of this offense. The only guys with potential of getting any burn would be CC and McCummings in mop up duty (in case we blow somebody out)..
 
It wasn't the question originally asked, but if you look at the roster position by position and ask where a true freshman has a chance to make the two deep (because as we saw last year with Joe Williams, we have no basis for guessing who may be asked to play just to help out on special teams):

1. I would be very surprised to see a true frosh play at LB or OL. We have depth at both of those positions and we don't have any recruits there that won't benefit from a redshirt year. Having said that, I still can't understand how in the world they burned Samra's redshirt last year to play a few meaningless mop up downs at OG, so I guess I can't rule out that they ask Schafenacker to do that as well.

2. At the skill positions, there is plenty of room for Mariner, at TB, Walsh, at FB, or any of the frosh WRs to make the two deep. Less so at TB than the others, but if Mariner is better than what we have now he will play. At TE, the opportunity will be there for at least one of Myers or Thompson to play if they are ready. Having said that, the walk-on Spencer Parker played on specials last year, and may have a chance to be McQuillan's back-uup. And, at QB, while I would be shocked if any of the true frosh were ready to push Whitmer, with three QBs in the class if any of them is more ready that Cochrane to be the backup, you play them this year. You can always redshirt them next year.

3. On defense, the battle to replace Trevardo is wide open. Could Norris be the guy? Could Frank be the guy? In either case, if Holines (or someone else but just based on measurables he seems the most likely) can play that position, we have a history of playing true frosh WSDEs. Finally, at DB, we have enough players that we don't have to burn a redshirt, but especially CB doesn't require a redshirt year if you're ready. But I doubt any of our guys our.

The bottom line is that, based on our roster and the staff's need to win this year, I would not be surprised if you see more true frosh get a chance to help the team than we've seen yet in the P era. The bigger question is will they be ready to help the team win this season.
 
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I agree with your assessment BL (and as others have said)...this is the year this coaching staff is more likely than ever to put true freshman on the field if its going to save their careers.

Walsh could definitely have an immediate impact. Frank was completely wasted playing two season out of position at FB. Hopefully he can be far more productive on the defensive side of the ball.

Holines could also see the field as a frosh the DL. Maybe I am wrong, but his physical development seems further along than the typical Uconn recruit.

Getting pumped....and feeling much better now that we have two RBs in the current recruiting class...now just need some OL and a couple Corners.
 
i dont understand the sacredness of the RS some espouse. Kids get on the field of play for 2 reasons - they earn it and/or the staff feels they need experience IN CASE a 1 goes down. We can argue all day long about whether Samra benefitted more from playing versus sitting on the sidelines in sweat pants, but I truly believe you don't sit a kid who has shown he can play and earned the right to be out there. In no other sport, do folks hope the new kid sits so he can play 5 years from now. A lot can happen in that timeframe. Play the best kids in 2013, and stop fixating over 2017. The irony is that many seem perplexed that certain kids dont commit here arguing they could see the field of play earlier than at other schools recruiting them.
 
gioff23 said:
i dont understand the sacredness of the RS some espouse. Kids get on the field of play for 2 reasons - they earn it and/or the staff feels they need experience IN CASE a 1 goes down. We can argue all day long about whether Samra benefitted more from playing versus sitting on the sidelines in sweat pants, but I truly believe you don't sit a kid who has shown he can play and earned the right to be out there. In no other sport, do folks hope the new kid sits so he can play 5 years from now. A lot can happen in that timeframe. Play the best kids in 2013, and stop fixating over 2017. The irony is that many seem perplexed that certain kids dont commit here arguing they could see the field of play earlier than at other schools recruiting them.
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In the first place, that's not the point of the redshirt. The redshirt is a development tool, pure and simple. As a general rule, the NFL does not grant college aged players draft eligibility until 3 years after their high school graduation (Maurice Clarrett and Mike Williams challenged this rule and failed). This is so an under-sized, physically (and potentially mentally) immature, 20 year old won't get hurt by 320 lb. behemoth pieces of granite who have already been in the league for 10 years and have grown into their bodies.

The same applies to Redshirting a 17 or 18 year old freshman. I feel that by and large freshman football players are not physically or mentally mature to adjust to the speed of the college game over that of high school. If they are, then by all means play them, but the Redshirt should be used as much to protect the player as the future of the football program.
 
gioff23 said:
i dont understand the sacredness of the RS some espouse. Kids get on the field of play for 2 reasons - they earn it and/or the staff feels they need experience IN CASE a 1 goes down. We can argue all day long about whether Samra benefitted more from playing versus sitting on the sidelines in sweat pants, but I truly believe you don't sit a kid who has shown he can play and earned the right to be out there. In no other sport, do folks hope the new kid sits so he can play 5 years from now. A lot can happen in that timeframe. Play the best kids in 2013, and stop fixating over 2017. The irony is that many seem perplexed that certain kids dont commit here arguing they could see the field of play earlier than at other schools recruiting them.
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I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.
 
H25, I agree with you, and I don't think the two thing are mutually exclusive. The speed and power of the game, especially at the D1 level is something that takes a major adjustment by most players even if they are physically capable of performing. There is a huge difference between playing against kids who are 15-17 and those who are 20-22. Then there is the complexity of most college offenses and defenses. With very few exceptions, kids are trying to learn a much more complex system than any of them have ever seen before. So it is really the combination of things that makes red-shirting the standard practice at most programs at the D1 level.

As it applies to this UConn team, I think the old rule that the further you play from the football, the more likely you'll play as a true freshman is generally applicable. Recievers and Dbacks are more likely than quarterbacks or interior linemen to see action. And returning to the quarterback situation, I think that if you assume that the Whitmer has the starting job locked down, and I think that's pretty much a given, there can be and often is a distinction between the backup quarterback and the replacement quarterback. I could see a scenario where Cochran is the #2 to Whitmer and if something bad were to happen and he went out for a long stretch, Lagow/Boyle/Taylor might take over as the starter for the rest of the year. because injuries change the calculus. When you are looking for a guy to come in for a quarter or to come in during mop up time, that is different than one who will be the starter for a long stretch of the season. In such a scenario, Cochran could well remain the backup to come in if needed during an individual game.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.
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The irony of course being probably no one in the country played more true freshman than Edsall last year.
 
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whaler11 said:
The irony of course being probably no one in the country played more true freshman than Edsall last year.
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Edsall doesn't have the luxury of operating in anonymity (sp?) and complete job security regardless of what happened on the field, at Maryland, like he did for the first 4 years of his tenure at UCONN.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.
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Is it possible for you to discuss something -- anything -- without being condescending?
 
Carl Spackler said:
Edsall doesn't have the luxury of operating in anonymity (sp?) and complete job security regardless of what happened on the field, at Maryland, like he did for the first 4 years of his tenure at UCONN.
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Actually it was just his entire roster was injured.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.
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If this is your view, I think You'd be surprised at how many draftable/rookie free agents likely to hook up with an NFL team were redshirts this past draft. Granted this was a quick and dirty analysis but 186 by my count using CBSSports.
 
Husky25 said:
If this is your view, I think You'd be surprised at how many draftable/rookie free agents likely to hook up with an NFL team were redshirts this past draft. Granted this was a quick and dirty analysis but 186 by my count using CBSSports.
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Redshirts are part of a roster decision making process. My only point, is my belief, that in the past - the decision making process was very much involved in the recruitment of players during the entire calendar year, where as now, the decision making process, red-shirts - is very much less involved in the recruitment of players during the calendar year, and is a decision making process that is focused on the actual roster determinations in a specific period of time, limited to the short period of time after fall camps and into the first 1-2 weeks of the season after fall camps. This is all my opinion. I have no inside knowledge of how Pasqualoni's calendars are set up with UCONN. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

I'm not presenting this as fact, i'm just giving my opinion. I think we recruited a lot differently in the past, than we do now, and I think we made decisions about red-shirts very much involved in the recruitment process in the past, where when recruits were being evaluated, the red-shirt year was a big part of it, where there is much less of that now.

It wouldn't surprise me at all that a large majority of NFL draft picks, had the luxury of a red shirt year in college.
 
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