True Freshman

[Husky25]

i dont understand the sacredness of the RS some espouse. Kids get on the field of play for 2 reasons - they earn it and/or the staff feels they need experience IN CASE a 1 goes down. We can argue all day long about whether Samra benefitted more from playing versus sitting on the sidelines in sweat pants, but I truly believe you don't sit a kid who has shown he can play and earned the right to be out there. In no other sport, do folks hope the new kid sits so he can play 5 years from now. A lot can happen in that timeframe. Play the best kids in 2013, and stop fixating over 2017. The irony is that many seem perplexed that certain kids dont commit here arguing they could see the field of play earlier than at other schools recruiting them.

In the first place, that's not the point of the redshirt. The redshirt is a development tool, pure and simple. As a general rule, the NFL does not grant college aged players draft eligibility until 3 years after their high school graduation (Maurice Clarrett and Mike Williams challenged this rule and failed). This is so an under-sized, physically (and potentially mentally) immature, 20 year old won't get hurt by 320 lb. behemoth pieces of granite who have already been in the league for 10 years and have grown into their bodies.

The same applies to Redshirting a 17 or 18 year old freshman. I feel that by and large freshman football players are not physically or mentally mature to adjust to the speed of the college game over that of high school. If they are, then by all means play them, but the Redshirt should be used as much to protect the player as the future of the football program.

 

[Carl Spackler]

i dont understand the sacredness of the RS some espouse. Kids get on the field of play for 2 reasons - they earn it and/or the staff feels they need experience IN CASE a 1 goes down. We can argue all day long about whether Samra benefitted more from playing versus sitting on the sidelines in sweat pants, but I truly believe you don't sit a kid who has shown he can play and earned the right to be out there. In no other sport, do folks hope the new kid sits so he can play 5 years from now. A lot can happen in that timeframe. Play the best kids in 2013, and stop fixating over 2017. The irony is that many seem perplexed that certain kids dont commit here arguing they could see the field of play earlier than at other schools recruiting them.

I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.

 

[freescooter]

H25, I agree with you, and I don't think the two thing are mutually exclusive. The speed and power of the game, especially at the D1 level is something that takes a major adjustment by most players even if they are physically capable of performing. There is a huge difference between playing against kids who are 15-17 and those who are 20-22. Then there is the complexity of most college offenses and defenses. With very few exceptions, kids are trying to learn a much more complex system than any of them have ever seen before. So it is really the combination of things that makes red-shirting the standard practice at most programs at the D1 level.

As it applies to this UConn team, I think the old rule that the further you play from the football, the more likely you'll play as a true freshman is generally applicable. Recievers and Dbacks are more likely than quarterbacks or interior linemen to see action. And returning to the quarterback situation, I think that if you assume that the Whitmer has the starting job locked down, and I think that's pretty much a given, there can be and often is a distinction between the backup quarterback and the replacement quarterback. I could see a scenario where Cochran is the #2 to Whitmer and if something bad were to happen and he went out for a long stretch, Lagow/Boyle/Taylor might take over as the starter for the rest of the year. because injuries change the calculus. When you are looking for a guy to come in for a quarter or to come in during mop up time, that is different than one who will be the starter for a long stretch of the season. In such a scenario, Cochran could well remain the backup to come in if needed during an individual game.

 

[whaler11]

I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.

The irony of course being probably no one in the country played more true freshman than Edsall last year.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The irony of course being probably no one in the country played more true freshman than Edsall last year.

Edsall doesn't have the luxury of operating in anonymity (sp?) and complete job security regardless of what happened on the field, at Maryland, like he did for the first 4 years of his tenure at UCONN.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.

Is it possible for you to discuss something -- anything -- without being condescending?

 

[whaler11]

Edsall doesn't have the luxury of operating in anonymity (sp?) and complete job security regardless of what happened on the field, at Maryland, like he did for the first 4 years of his tenure at UCONN.

Actually it was just his entire roster was injured.

 

[Husky25]

I think it's pretty darn clear that the thought process you describe regarding redshirts, that is propogated in the cross section of the UCONN fan base that is represented on this website, is a product of a decade of Randy Edsall's football program, and the fact that many fans, the majority of them, did not follow college football closely, until UCONN went division 1-A a little over a decade ago, and knew very little of anything else about college football, except from what they knew of Edsall.

Edsall routinely recruited and signed players that were not physically ready coming out of high school, to play their projected positions, specifically on the OL and DL and required redshirt years, for simple physical development, weight training, and eating like horses. Edsall also routinely recruited athletes, that played specific positions in high school, but worked to transition them into different positions, usually on the other side of the ball in college, and required red shirt years, to learn and develop new skills. It's how he built the program up. He did a very good job at it. It's also the only way that many, most I would say, current UCONN football fans, knew of college football recruiting.

Red shirts, primarily, are a luxury, and are not a required tool for recruiting and developing a roster. The most highly sought after players coming out of high school, are the ones that are going to be able to contribute to a game day roster right away.

We're seeing that now, in Pasqualoni's system. recruits are coming in - ready to play - from day 1. Players that can play, and are deserving to play, are going to be called to play, regardless of their class ranking.

There are certain positions though, mostly on offense, where upper classmen, are almost always more desireable than underclassmen.

If this is your view, I think You'd be surprised at how many draftable/rookie free agents likely to hook up with an NFL team were redshirts this past draft. Granted this was a quick and dirty analysis but 186 by my count using CBSSports.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Is it possible for you to discuss something -- anything -- without being condescending?

How did I hurt your feelings this time?

 

[Carl Spackler]

If this is your view, I think You'd be surprised at how many draftable/rookie free agents likely to hook up with an NFL team were redshirts this past draft. Granted this was a quick and dirty analysis but 186 by my count using CBSSports.

Redshirts are part of a roster decision making process. My only point, is my belief, that in the past - the decision making process was very much involved in the recruitment of players during the entire calendar year, where as now, the decision making process, red-shirts - is very much less involved in the recruitment of players during the calendar year, and is a decision making process that is focused on the actual roster determinations in a specific period of time, limited to the short period of time after fall camps and into the first 1-2 weeks of the season after fall camps. This is all my opinion. I have no inside knowledge of how Pasqualoni's calendars are set up with UCONN. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

I'm not presenting this as fact, i'm just giving my opinion. I think we recruited a lot differently in the past, than we do now, and I think we made decisions about red-shirts very much involved in the recruitment process in the past, where when recruits were being evaluated, the red-shirt year was a big part of it, where there is much less of that now.

It wouldn't surprise me at all that a large majority of NFL draft picks, had the luxury of a red shirt year in college.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Actually it was just his entire roster was injured.

This is a distinct possibility for every single roster in the country, every year!! Injuries are a part of football.

 

[Husky25]

Redshirts are part of a roster decision making process. My only point, is my belief, that in the past - the decision making process was very much involved in the recruitment of players during the entire calendar year, where as now, the decision making process, red-shirts - is very much less involved in the recruitment of players during the calendar year, and is a decision making process that is focused on the actual roster determinations in a specific period of time, limited to the short period of time after fall camps and into the first 1-2 weeks of the season after fall camps. This is all my opinion. I have no inside knowledge of how Pasqualoni's calendars are set up with UCONN. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

I'm not presenting this as fact, i'm just giving my opinion. I think we recruited a lot differently in the past, than we do now, and I think we made decisions about red-shirts very much involved in the recruitment process in the past, where when recruits were being evaluated, the red-shirt year was a big part of it, where there is much less of that now.

It wouldn't surprise me at all that a large majority of NFL draft picks, had the luxury of a red shirt year in college.

I can see your POV, I'm just not sure I agree with all of it.

Getting back to the topic at hand, UConn lost 2 Senior TEs, that is where I think a True Freshman can contribute.

For the most part, I would hold off on plopping a tFr. on the 2-Deep (or even 3 Deep) at QB. Lagow may very well be the next coming of Andrew Luck (who redshirted, incidentally), but he has some competition in Boyle and little initial leverage to be placed that high, seeing as Cochran is healthy and experienced in the system (remember 70% of the terminology is the same under Coach Weist. The difference is the person analyzing outcomes of previous plays and their effect on what to call next).

 

[Kgun7]

Is it possible for you to discuss something -- anything -- without being condescending? Sheesh

Fixed it for you ...

 

[joey3$trike$]

It has to be the TE position, that's where the pt will be. I think Lagow or Boyle
becomes the #2 by the end of the year. I think they want that pro-qb type more,
you can't teach 6-5. Of course until I see them throw the ball in College. I haven't seen
much improvement in CC, and if he's injury prone, I think one of the two FR. replaces him.

 

[gioff23]

If this is your view, I think You'd be surprised at how many draftable/rookie free agents likely to hook up with an NFL team were redshirts this past draft. Granted this was a quick and dirty analysis but 186 by my count using CBSSports.

I'm not arguing with your research - god knows, i would not have the time or patience to do that. But ... that means 1/2 weren't and it doesn't necessarily prove they were RS'd their freshman year. I'm not asking that we put kids out on the field who are not ready. And i understand the majority of recruits will be RS'd. But if we need a kid to go in to a game and play, what do we think about - the play, the series, the game, that season, or 5 years down the road? ALL I'm saying is that if the kid earns PT, he plays, I dont care what year of the program it is for him.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I can see your POV, I'm just not sure I agree with all of it.

Getting back to the topic at hand, UConn lost 2 Senior TEs, that is where I think a True Freshman can contribute.

For the most part, I would hold off on plopping a tFr. on the 2-Deep (or even 3 Deep) at QB. Lagow may very well be the next coming of Andrew Luck (who redshirted, incidentally), but he has some competition in Boyle and little initial leverage to be placed that high, seeing as Cochran is healthy and experienced in the system (remember 70% of the terminology is the same under Coach Weist. The difference is the person analyzing outcomes of previous plays and their effect on what to call next).

Discussions are boring if everybody agrees all the time.

 

[whaler11]

This is a distinct possibility for every single roster in the country, every year!! Injuries are a part of football.

I hadn't heard. Maybe another half dozen links to concussion studies might help.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I'm not arguing with your research - god knows, i would not have the time or patience to do that. But ... that means 1/2 weren't and it doesn't necessarily prove they were RS'd their freshman year. I'm not asking that we put kids out on the field who are not ready. And i understand the majority of recruits will be RS'd. But if we need a kid to go in to a game and play, what do we think about - the play, the series, the game, that season, or 5 years down the road? ALL I'm saying is that if the kid earns PT, he plays, I dont care what year of the program it is for him.

I agree with this completely.

I'll put my thoughts out from a different direction. IF...IF....the redshirt decision making process, is tied to development expected in players as incoming recruits, it will leave you in a very bad place on your roster, when injuries start knocking out rosters. Redshirt decisions that are made based on competition level, rather than physical development are going to leave your roster in a much better place when the injuries start knocking players out. But that means you need to recruit players that don't need much physical development.

 

[Husky25]

I'm not arguing with your research - god knows, i would not have the time or patience to do that. But ... that means 1/2 weren't and it doesn't necessarily prove they were RS'd their freshman year. I'm not asking that we put kids out on the field who are not ready. And i understand the majority of recruits will be RS'd. But if we need a kid to go in to a game and play, what do we think about - the play, the series, the game, that season, or 5 years down the road? ALL I'm saying is that if the kid earns PT, he plays, I dont care what year of the program it is for him.

It doesn't take a ton of patience to copy, paste to Excel, and sort by class, but thanks...

For one, they already said that the best players will play, but that is not my point. My point is that a 17-18 year old kid, who was the best player on the field for virtually every play during his senior high school season, is at the low end of the totem pole when he enters college, and it's typically not for lack of effort. Upperclassmen are typically more mature and obviously have the distinct advantage of years of experience of their teams' system, familiarizing themselves with the ins and outs. In fact, they probably redshirted themselves. A QB literally has to know the assignments for each of the other ten players on the field on every down...and possibly the positioning of the water boy. At UConn, there are currently three people already ahead of the three incoming freshmen. I just want people to show patience with the young kids and not throw them needlessly to the wolves.

In the end, the team can plan for, but doesn't have to declare redshirts during the season, so all of this is moot. And even if a team plans to redshirt a player, they are still allowed to dress. the fact still remains that the moment they cross the white line during a regulation game, they burn their red shirt eligibility for that year (i.e. Bobby Puyol).

 

[Husky25]

It has to be the TE position, that's where the pt will be. I think Lagow or Boyle
becomes the #2 by the end of the year. I think they want that pro-qb type more,
you can't teach 6-5. Of course until I see them throw the ball in College. I haven't seen
much improvement in CC, and if he's injury prone, I think one of the two FR. replaces him.

I wasn't aware that Cochran wasn't a pro-style QB, or that a freak injury to his non-throwing hand equates to injury prone. I think we, as fans, haven't seen much of anything from Cochran because: 1) practices are closed. 2) He ran the 2nd stringers during a windy Spring Scrimmage, where quite frankly, not many showed much of anything.

Just like with Warde Manuel's day-to-day activity, Hearing nothing does not mean nothing is happening. Just my opinion.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I hadn't heard. Maybe another half dozen links to concussion studies might help.

If I had more time, I'd oblige you, just for spite.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It doesn't take a ton of patience to copy, paste to Excel, and sort by class, but thanks...

For one, they already said that the best players will play, but that is not my point. My point is that a 17-18 year old kid, who was the best player on the field for virtually every play during his senior high school season, is at the low end of the totem pole when he enters college, and it's typically not for lack of effort. Upperclassmen are typically more mature and obviously have the distinct advantage of years of experience of their teams' system, familiarizing themselves with the ins and outs. In fact, they probably redshirted themselves. A QB literally has to know the assignments for each of the other ten players on the field on every down...and possibly the positioning of the water boy. At UConn, there are currently three people already ahead of the three incoming freshmen. I just want people to show patience with the young kids and not throw them needlessly to the wolves.

In the end, the team can plan for, but doesn't have to declare redshirts during the season, so all of this is moot. And even if a team plans to redshirt a player, they are still allowed to dress. the fact still remains that the moment they cross the white line during a regulation game, they burn their red shirt eligibility for that year (i.e. Bobby Puyol).

I look at Ashiru and Vann. They were on the two deep at LB as true frosh all season long if I'm not mistaken. Don Brown, after the season, was talking and said that he was having heart palpitations every time that Sio or Jory was down on the ground, because they didn't want to burn the red shirts. It's on record somewhere, in some media interview.

Got to ask yourself - why was he having palpitations? Why was he so concerned? How does a true freshmen, make it on to the 2-deep depth chart, and give their coordinator heart palpitations if the starter is down on the field after the whistle?

Is it because that coach really wants to save the 5th year - or is it because the coach thinks the player isn't ready now and needs to develop? How does that true freshmen make it on the 2-deep roster?

The condition of our roster in fall 2011, was a disaster - up down and sideways - everywhere. I'll leave out my opinions as to why that was - it was a disaster. Period.

It's much better, MUCH better, in fall 2013. You look at the roster, and you actually start seeing position groups that are stacking up (Fr, Fr, RsF, RsF, So, So....at various positions - the upper classes are still a mess..)

We've still got two years to go, before the roster can potentially be stacked up in an ideal form.

 

[Husky25]

...Got to ask yourself - why was he having palpitations? Why was he so concerned? How does a true freshmen, make it on to the 2-deep depth chart, and give their coordinator heart palpitations if the starter is down on the field after the whistle?

Is it because that coach really wants to save the 5th year - or is it because the coach thinks the player isn't ready now and needs to develop? How does that true freshmen make it on the 2-deep roster?

Gotta go with the latter there, Chief... As I said, I don't think the coach is really worried about having a year of eligibility 5 years out unless it is a game really late in the season under a specific set of circumstances (e.g. I think burning Puyol's redshirt was the wrong thing to do last year, but as a fan I have the luxury to hope for a win vs. Cinci, while expecting a loss). Who know if the player will even use it, but it's nice to know it's there if needed. Basically the Red shirt is there to relieve pressure to play a kid who is not ready.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Actually it was just his entire roster was injured.

And/or quit/left team.

 

[huskypantz]

And/or quit/left team.

Suspended for doo-rag use.