OT: - Transgender Athletes, A new Video | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT: Transgender Athletes, A new Video

Roger G said:
I hope this discussion is not shut down and the debate remains civil. But this debate is enormously important to the future of women's sports.

As I understand it, they stopped sex testing at the Olympics some time ago.
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Correct now they can do hormone testing even though the athlete must demonstrate that their total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to their first competition. This while women are normally at 3 and men range typically from 7 to 30 (from what I understand but I am not a professional in the space.)

The broader point was there was an effort to have some fair playing field. They have kept changing and lessing it for PC purposes.
 
For some reason, People seem incapable of recognizing the end result of issues they support. It was all ways inevitable that this issue was going to bring about the end of all the gains made for women due to Tittle 9. So that a few individuals can use sports as another medium to reinforce their own frail sense of identity all the advances that were made through title 9 and the years of gains for women and girls in sports should be flushed down the toilet? Gains for one group should never come at the expense of ridiculous losses for another group. This is totally irrational.
 
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If and when a body of medical and scientific experts can establish the "limits" of testosterone that "separate " male from female, any athlete who chooses to compete in a contest that suits their gender identity and who exceeds acceptable levels could compete, have their standing marked by an asterisk, and any participants below the limits place without asterisks. Then everyone knows where they placed, and no one has to compete where they do not feel comfortable. So first place asterisk category wins asterisk category, and first place no asterisk is first place no asterisk. The "girls" compete against other "girls", and those above the "limit' compete against others above the limit. If we are all running some race, and a motorcyclist passes all of us, the motorcyclist clearly crosses the finish line first, and the first place runner is clearly the winner too. No one would be duped! Those racing without a motorcycle know who won and who didn't! It is the determination of what constitutes undue advantage in a competitive situation that must be settled. The rest should follow in a straightforward way. No one should feel "left out" or disadvantaged.
 
She didn't win everything she did. She didn't dominate. She won one Division II event and lost others. Didn't even qualify for the final heat in some. Reading the full thread of tweets is worth it even if you disagree with the language of "transphobe" in the first one.

 
tzznandrew said:
She didn't win everything she did. She didn't dominate. She won one Division II event and lost others. Didn't even qualify for the final heat in some. Reading the full thread of tweets is worth it even if you disagree with the language of "transphobe" in the first one.

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So if I think a male changing to a female and then competing in female school sports is not fair, then I'm a "transphobe"? OK I'm a transphobe then.
 
j66kicker said:
So if I think a male changing to a female and then competing in female school sports is not fair, then I'm a "transphobe"? OK I'm a transphobe then.
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LOL

I take it you didn't click on the Tweet and read the thread or even read my preface closely?

I said the thread was worth reading even if you thought there was a problem with her language. I imagined that might be a problem, and if I were her I wouldn't have phrased it that way for this very reason. But the full thread is worth the click even if you object to that.
 
tzznandrew said:
LOL

I take it you didn't click on the Tweet and read the thread or even read my preface closely?

I said the thread was worth reading even if you thought there was a problem with her language. I imagined that might be a problem, and if I were her I wouldn't have phrased it that way for this very reason. But the full thread is worth the click even if you object to that.
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I did read your preface and I should have clarified that I'm apparently not a full-fledged transphobe since I don't post the pictures... :cool:

OK I went back and read the whole Parker Molloy thread. I've followed the Caster Semenya story a little bit, and don't have a good solution any more than anyone else does. It's a tough issue, and I don't sense there is any intentional unfairness going on. On the surface it appears (to me) as a natural hormone situation which unfortunately falls (way) on the wrong side of a well-intentioned but arbitrary limit driven by both the policing of illegal steroids and establishing female gender. Was she intentionally targeted with the testosterone reduction rule for hyperandrogenous athletes? Well, since she was the red flag which called out for some rule, then I guess you could say she was targeted. But IMO that could mean "targeted" in an attempt to be fair to the overwhelming majority/rank and file, and not necessarily "targeted" with a racist agenda as some are claiming.

In any case I don't see the Caster Semenya thing as the same issue as "born male / competing as female". Some in the thread are all bent that the only time people complain is when the trans person actually wins. Duh?? Isn't that when you would expect they'd complain? IMO let people be who they want/need to be, but if you were born a male then you need to forego competing against natural females in physical female sports.
 
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tough issue. I know I don't have any answers. I do have my "points I do consider important"

1 - sports should be fair. It may never be perfectly so, but as others have noted, weight classes, age classification, big school vs. small school divisions, DI vs DIII - in may ways we classify sports to be fair.
2 - some (I doubt all) females that were once males will have an athletic advantage over born and still females. But then again, you can't have rules that single out "some" and not "all"
3 - trans folks have a right to be respected - (its not a political correctness thing with me, I believe so far as possible I should respect everyone's rights) - it would be inappropriate to my mind to make them compete in their birth sex, never mind the complications of that discussed earlier in this thread. And it isn't really fair to prevent athletes from competing at all.

I don't know where this takes us, I suppose those talking about testosterone measurements and such probably have the right of it. But I agree with all that it is a very real problem that needs a solution.
 
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