Top Overall Seed in NCAA Tournament

[bballnut90]

Hypothetical scenario:
If Connecticut and Notre Dame both manage to enter the NCAA tournament with unblemished records, who gets the top overall seed? On one hand, the easy choice is Connecticut because they've been #1 all year and have stomped every opponent they've faced, but Notre Dame's resume will include the following wins:
@ Penn State
@ Maryland
@ Tennessee
@ Duke
vs. Duke
vs. North Carolina
2 ACC Tournament wins against most likely Duke and UNC/Maryland again.

Connecticut's win list will be:
@ Penn State
@ Maryland
@ Duke
vs. Stanford
@ Baylor
vs. Louisville
@ Louisville
AAC win against Louisville

 

[Tonyc]

Here is something to think about. If LVille loses to UConn 3 times and Duke loses to ND 3 times does that make a team like Tenn the 4th 1 seed? I think UConn ND and Stanford will all get 1 seeds . The 4th one seed if based on wins and losses and the fact that the FF is in Tenn could the NCAA make Tenn the 4th one seed if they have less losses???? Now that could be scary. I do agree with some of the posters who say LVille is better coached the Duke. The question is can LVille beat Duke?.

 

[bballnut90]

Here is something to think about. If LVille loses to UConn 3 times and Duke loses to ND 3 times does that make a team like Tenn the 4th 1 seed? I think UConn ND and Stanford will all get 1 seeds . The 4th one seed if based on wins and losses and the fact that the FF is in Tenn could the NCAA make Tenn the 4th one seed if they have less losses???? Now that could be scary. I do agree with some of the posters who say LVille is better coached the Duke. The question is can LVille beat Duke?.

Louisville hasn't really proven themselves yet this year. Their only big wins are against Oklahoma and LSU. They lost to Kentucky, and nothing they've done this year gives me any indication that they'll be able to compete with UCONN. Tennessee isn't going to be a #1 seed this year, if Duke loses 3x to Notre Dame but wins everything else they could nab the last #1. They still have to play @ Notre Dame, home and away against UNC and home against Maryland...then most likely 1-2 more games against these teams in the ACC tournament. Wouldn't be shocked to see Duke enter the NCAA tournament with 5-6 losses and a midrange 2 seed.

 

[Tonyc]

Louisville hasn't really proven themselves yet this year. Their only big wins are against Oklahoma and LSU. They lost to Kentucky, and nothing they've done this year gives me any indication that they'll be able to compete with UCONN. Tennessee isn't going to be a #1 seed this year, if Duke loses 3x to Notre Dame but wins everything else they could nab the last #1. They still have to play @ Notre Dame, home and away against UNC and home against Maryland...then most likely 1-2 more games against these teams in the ACC tournament. Wouldn't be shocked to see Duke enter the NCAA tournament with 5-6 losses and a midrange 2 seed.

Bballnut90 I watched the Tenn game today. IMO this is a game Tenn should have walked away with and won by 20+ They didn't get a handle on the game until there was about 6-7 minutes left. What is wrong with the LVs? All that talent and height and they struggle against mediocre teams. In the second half Bama looked like a high school team and Tenn struggled to get the lead. IMO Tenn lacks passing and plays out of control at times. If Bama could knock down a shot early in the second half Bama could've won. To me its a mystery.

 

[Vowelguy]

Hypothetical scenario:
If Connecticut and Notre Dame both manage to enter the NCAA tournament with unblemished records, who gets the top overall seed?

UConn.

 

[tomcat]

If Tennessee is a #4 seed, I'm Julius Erving. They were Godawful today, and if that is any indication of how they play, they will finish the year as #10, and should be seeded accordingly.

 

[Phil]

Hypothetical scenario:
If Connecticut and Notre Dame both manage to enter the NCAA tournament with unblemished records, who gets the top overall seed?

Why does it matter, other than for bragging rights?

In the very old S-curve days, being the top seed meant you drew the 4 seed in the semis. But that's years ago.

In more recent years, but not this year, being the top overall seed meant you got the best geographical region.

This year is different. ND gets ND as a regional location.

Which location UConn gets will depends on how they wriite the rules, but I cannot think of a scenario where it would matter whether UConn or ND was the top overall seed.

 

[Vowelguy]

Why does it matter, other than for bragging rights?

In the very old S-curve days, being the top seed meant you drew the 4 seed in the semis. But that's years ago.

Which location UConn gets will depends on how they wriite the rules, but I cannot think of a scenario where it would matter whether UConn or ND was the top overall seed.

The 1 and 4 are still matched, so it does still matter.

 

[Wbbfan1]

The overall #1 seed does matter, if I'm UConn I would prefer to meet the SEC or B12 winner instead of Stanford in the Semi-finals. I'm not convinced that if Duke loses ends up with 4 losses with three of them to ND that they'll get a #1 seed. I think the committee will give it to either B12 or SEC Champion as long as that team wins the Regular Season and Conference Tournament.

 

[bballnut90]

Why does it matter, other than for bragging rights?

In the very old S-curve days, being the top seed meant you drew the 4 seed in the semis. But that's years ago.

In more recent years, but not this year, being the top overall seed meant you got the best geographical region.

This year is different. ND gets ND as a regional location.

Which location UConn gets will depends on how they wriite the rules, but I cannot think of a scenario where it would matter whether UConn or ND was the top overall seed.

Don't they still set it up so the #1 overall seed will be on the same side of the bracket as the 4th #1? That's the way the brackets have worked out the last several years. If that's the case, I think there's a big advantage for the #1 overall seed to face the #4 team over facing Stanford.

 

[semper]

Who will be the SEC champion, in your views? I think that's who gets the #4, if all else continues as we are predicting.

 

[Icebear]

Don't they still set it up so the #1 overall seed will be on the same side of the bracket as the 4th #1? That's the way the brackets have worked out the last several years. If that's the case, I think there's a big advantage for the #1 overall seed to face the #4 team over facing Stanford.

No.

 

[Vowelguy]

No.

Incorrect.

 

[Phil]

Charlie Creme has Connecticut facing ND (obviously, assuming both win out)

Does this mean:

1. Creme doesn't know what he is doing (a popular response, I'll bet, but not one I subscribe to)
2. Creme concentrates on getting the teams in the right regions but doesn't pay attention to the regional match ups, so it would be wrong to read too much into his selections
3. Creme thinks that the 1 and 4 overall seeds should match up, and he views UConn and ND as the overall 1 and 4 seeds.
4. Something else

 

[Icebear]

Incorrect.

See Phil's answer.

Regional matchups have been identified in advance at least the last couple of years on the brackets I have observed. I have not seen them changed to accomodate 1-4 matchups.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Charlie Creme has Connecticut facing ND (obviously, assuming both win out)

Does this mean:

1. 
   [ ]Creme doesn't know what he is doing (a popular response, I'll bet, but not one I subscribe to)
   [ ]Creme concentrates on getting the teams in the right regions but doesn't pay attention to the regional match ups, so it would be wrong to read too much into his selections
   [ ]Creme thinks that the 1 and 4 overall seeds should match up, and he views UConn and ND as the overall 1 and 4 seeds.
   [ ]Something else

Check your link again, Phil. Right below Charlie's smirking face is the following: Note: Regions not reflective of Final Four pairings.

His bracketology always has that note. Vowelguy is correct.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Check your link again, Phil. Right below Charlie's smirking face is the following: Note: Regions not reflective of Final Four pairings.

His bracketology always has that note. Vowelguy is correct.

Yeah, from the rulebook for the men (assuming that the women have the same rule).

The committee will place the four No. 1 seeded teams 1 through 4 in each of the four regions, thus determining the Final Four semifinals pairings (overall 1 vs. 4; 2 vs. 3).

 

[ndmb]

There's still an argument to be made that it won't make a strong difference. I think that the number 1 seeds are likely to end up like this:

1: UConn (assuming undefeated the rest of the way out)
2: Notre Dame (unless they continue to dominate or UConn loses, in which case they have a legitimate argument for #1)
3: Duke (assuming they don't lose outside of ND)
4: Stanford (assuming they go undefeated the rest of the way, it's hard to keep out a team with the 9th ranked SOS and only 1 loss)

In this case, common logic is that both UConn and Notre Dame would want to be the overall number 1 seed, so that they can play Stanford, who is presumably weaker than Duke. While I would agree that Stanford isn't as good a team on paper, I think that it's ultimately a wash. Both Notre Dame and UConn handled Duke easily anyways, so in the interest of minimizing the possibility that something goes wrong, I'd almost rather play the stronger team and avoiding having to be the ones who have to force Chiney Ogwumike into the last game of her career.

Of course, it's possible (and likely) that the assumptions above won't carry out, in which case it's easy to imagine that Louisville or South Carolina (or even Baylor or Tennessee) could sneak in to that number 4 spot if either Duke or Stanford implodes. In that case, it would make a very large difference.

 

[Phil]

Check your link again, Phil. Right below Charlie's smirking face is the following: Note: Regions not reflective of Final Four pairings.

His bracketology always has that note. Vowelguy is correct.

I didn't miss that, although perhaps I didn't read it the same way you did.

I thought he was saying:

I don't know for certain that the Selection committee will decide, for example, that the Louisville Bracket will meet up with the South Bend bracket. Maybe there are TV and time slot commitments I do not know about which would cause the committee to choose another option. In addition, one should not assume that the implied match up of Louisville and South Bend (and Stanford and Lincoln) are already settled, that decision is part of the Selection committee decision. However, I am making my best estimate of how I think things will play out, given what I know about the committees principles and procedures.​

You seem to think he was saying:

I spend a lot of time trying to select teams and assign them to slots and match ups based upon my understanding of the Principles and Procedures. However, when it comes to which Region will play which Region in the semis, I don't bother to think about it and accept whatever is printed in the form someone creates for me.​

I suppose the latter is possible, but that wasn't my guess.

 

[Phil]

Yeah, from the rulebook for the men (assuming that the women have the same rule).

The committee will place the four No. 1 seeded teams 1 through 4 in each of the four regions, thus determining the Final Four semifinals pairings (overall 1 vs. 4; 2 vs. 3).

Those rules were written prior to the decision to allow Regionals to host. In addition, the men have always placed more emphasis on the S-curve than the women, especially recently, so I wouldn't automatically assume that last year's men's rule will be this year's women's rule.

 

[Phil]

In this case, common logic is that both UConn and Notre Dame would want to be the overall number 1 seed, so that they can play Stanford, who is presumably weaker than Duke. While I would agree that Stanford isn't as good a team on paper, I think that it's ultimately a wash. Both Notre Dame and UConn handled Duke easily anyways, so in the interest of minimizing the possibility that something goes wrong, I'd almost rather play the stronger team and avoiding having to be the ones who have to force Chiney Ogwumike into the last game of her career.

If I am reading correctly, Wbbfan1, ndmb and bballnut90 want a match up that avoids Stanford in the semis, (for different reasons) while you assume most want a matchup that ensures we do play Stanford in the semis.

 

[ndmb]

If I am reading correctly, Wbbfan1, ndmb and bballnut90 want a match up that avoids Stanford in the semis, (for different reasons) while you assume most want a matchup that ensures we do play Stanford in the semis.

We have a disagreement about who the number one seeds will be. WBBfan1 thinks that Duke will not be a number 1 seed if they win the rest of their schedule, but lose to Notre Dame three times. Bballnut90 thinks that they will be a number 1 seed, but the weakest one. I think that they will, and that they will be the #3 overall seed, and over Stanford. It's not clear to me whether WBBfan1 would prefer a matchup with Duke or Stanford, but it seems like Bballnut90 agrees with me that facing Duke would be preferable in the tournament.

However, yes, I do think when it comes down to it, most will see Stanford as the easier matchup. But if I'm wrong on that, it just solidifies my point that if UConn, ND, Duke, and Stanford are the number 1 seeds, it doesn't matter that much whether UConn or Notre Dame is the number 1 overall seed.

 

[Vowelguy]

See Phil's answer.

Regional matchups have been identified in advance at least the last couple of years

No they have not. Some websites may publish preliminary brackets with the regions assigned in a certain way, but that is not coming from the NCAA. The committee decides the F4 pairings on selection monday.

 

[Vowelguy]

I didn't miss that, although perhaps I didn't read it the same way you did.

I thought he was saying:

I don't know for certain that the Selection committee will decide, for example, that the Louisville Bracket will meet up with the South Bend bracket. Maybe there are TV and time slot commitments I do not know about which would cause the committee to choose another option. In addition, one should not assume that the implied match up of Louisville and South Bend (and Stanford and Lincoln) are already settled, that decision is part of the Selection committee decision. However, I am making my best estimate of how I think things will play out, given what I know about the committees principles and procedures.​

You seem to think he was saying:

I spend a lot of time trying to select teams and assign them to slots and match ups based upon my understanding of the Principles and Procedures. However, when it comes to which Region will play which Region in the semis, I don't bother to think about it and accept whatever is printed in the form someone creates for me.​

I suppose the latter is possible, but that wasn't my guess.

I interpreted it as the latter.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Hypothetical scenario:
If Connecticut and Notre Dame both manage to enter the NCAA tournament with unblemished records, who gets the top overall seed? On one hand, the easy choice is Connecticut because they've been #1 all year and have stomped every opponent they've faced, but Notre Dame's resume will include the following wins:
@ Penn State
@ Maryland
@ Tennessee
@ Duke
vs. Duke
vs. North Carolina
2 ACC Tournament wins against most likely Duke and UNC/Maryland again.

Connecticut's win list will be:
@ Penn State
@ Maryland
@ Duke
vs. Stanford
@ Baylor
vs. Louisville
@ Louisville
AAC win against Louisville

I think that the fact that they'll have been unanimous number one for the better part of the season and the fact that they are the defending national champions, it'll be a pretty obvious selection.