Top Dogs: Andre Jackson, UConn PG?

[bigknight3]

Link won't load...

 

[Deleted at users request]

AJax has more athleticism, better handle, better passing, and more natural Point instincts that Hamilton. And could his athletic ability projects that he could guard the opposing teams 1 or 2 on the defensive end. Where you slot as a defender also is a factor in whether it's advantageous for you to be full time PG or if you're a SF who runs the point occasionally. (Note about this is included in the article below as well)

The Westbrook example was already provided.

Does this article on Tyreke Evans satisfy you?



Article discusses his shift between PG, SG and SF throughout his career, where he excelled with the bar in his hands and slashing to the basket but his biggest shortcoming was his lack of skill and interest in passing.

Ajax, has the size and athleticism and passing ability to be a big PG. To reach his full potential, he needs improved outside shooting, tighten his ball handling, and improve his bbq and aggressiveness when opportunities for him to dunk or score at the rim are presented.

We're not saying it'll definitely happen but it's intriguing enough a prospect to give it a chance to come to fruition this season.

I don’t agree with the Hamilton comparisons but it’s subjective so there’s no clear debating that really. I can show you Tyreke Evans recruiting profile that calls him strictly a PG though.

Tyreke Evans, American Christian School , Point Guard

Tyreke Evans is a 6-5, 205-pound Point Guard from Aston, PA.

247sports.com

You all keep comparing him to guys who scouts called a PG coming out of high school and played PG the moment they got to college. Andre Jackson is a junior who might be experimenting with having full time PG duties for the first time. I’d bet any amount of money if he makes the NBA he will never see the court as a PG. He is a wing player who can playmake like Lebron, Iggy, and so many others.

He’s not Lonzo Ball, he’s not Tyreke Evans (a 17 PPG scorer), Shaun Livingston, or Ben Simmons. He’s what Andre Iguodola was during the GSW run. Amazing defender, terrific athlete, iffy shooter, and can be a great playmaker for the team to open up the floor for your scorers. Which works great with a team that has Tristan Newton and Jordan Hawkins on it to operate as Steph and Klay. Not saying those guys are them talent wise just role wise.

 

[mauconnfan]

Link won't load...
View attachment 79739

Andre is not Tyreke Evans. People are out of their minds in this thread.

He’s AJ, he’s a great helper handling the ball when needed. He can get a rebound and go coast to coast in a couple seconds. He has excellent vision sometimes to a fault last year turning it over, yet showed he could see the floor very well. He was our best interior passer getting it to Sanogo where he needed it.
He also took it from the perimeter to the hole hardly ever, he had a weak floater and maybe dunked off a set twice. He’s not going to dribble off a pick and stop and pop, he’s a catch and shooter. Kids good, potentially really good but....
He’s not our “PG” he’s our all around combo guard, swing man. If he’s “running” the point the staff failed in their quest to find capable ball handlers, team leaders.

Simple.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Boneyard life would be better if the words "point" and "guard" weren't able to be used together.

 

[Mr. French]

38% on almost 4 attempts as a 19 year old with a pretty stroke isn’t a natural shooter? You must have a high bar for shooters.

He had a pretty stroke? He was what, 6th man as a frosh and worked with trainers on his shot form for like 4 years, but ya he was already Ray Allen.

He got drafted because of his insane potential and athleticism. He showed very little in college other than potential.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think people are caught up on the PG label. I know I am. I don’t think there’s any way Andre Jackson plays PG at the next level. Making a plan for him to do so is setting him up for failure. Scottie Barnes by all means was a much better “PG” in college a few years ago and he’s playing the 3/4 now in the NBA. Do we really believe Andre Jackson is going to be better than him?

I like this team a lot and think we have the pieces. But Andre Jackson should not be prepping to be an NBA PG.

There is a lot more flexibility in these roles than we seem to appreciate. Andre is an athletic playmaker who can guard 1-3 and maybe 1-4. He's not much of a scorer yet and has to improve to make the next step.

I thought this was a good analysis. My sense is that teams have to do a better job of roster construction. Because you put different guys around Chris Paul than you do Steph Curry. You need a blend of playmakers and finishers, no matter what positions they play.

The Rise of Neo-Positions in Basketball

By: Ved Phadke and Ollie Pai

www.bruinsportsanalytics.com

 

[Deleted at users request]

He had a pretty stroke? He was what, 6th man as a frosh and worked with trainers on his shot form for like 4 years, but ya he was already Ray Allen.

He got drafted because of his insane potential and athleticism. He showed very little in college other than potential.

His draft workout after his freshman year.

 

[Deleted at users request]

There is a lot more flexibility in these roles than we seem to appreciate. Andre is an athletic playmaker who can guard 1-3 and maybe 1-4. He's not much of a scorer yet and has to improve to make the next step.

I thought this was a good analysis. My sense is that teams have to do a better job of roster construction. Because you put different guys around Chris Paul than you do Steph Curry. You need a blend of playmakers and finishers, no matter what positions they play.

The Rise of Neo-Positions in Basketball

By: Ved Phadke and Ollie Pai

www.bruinsportsanalytics.com

I can completely agree with this. Andre is definitely the type of player who would play around a Steph Curry or Dame Lillard as oppose to a Chris Paul or John Wall. His playmaking is definitely going to be a big plus at the next level. I just don’t think full blown PG would be the way.

 

[BlueMAB]

I just don’t think full blown PG would be the way.

We know.

 

[superjohn]

He had a pretty stroke? He was what, 6th man as a frosh and worked with trainers on his shot form for like 4 years, but ya he was already Ray Allen.

He got drafted because of his insane potential and athleticism. He showed very little in college other than potential.

You know who else was a 6th man for his one year in college? Devin Booker.

LaVine showed a much smoother offensive game and shot in his one season at UCLA than Jackson has in his two seasons. Jackson can jump like him, he can play D, pass, and rebound but he hasn't shown any smoothness in his offensive game.

 

[Mr. French]

You know who else was a 6th man for his one year in college? Devin Booker.

LaVine showed a much smoother offensive game and shot in his one season at UCLA than Jackson has in his two seasons. Jackson can jump like him, he can play D, pass, and rebound but he hasn't shown any smoothness in his offensive game.

Not disagreeing. Just saying, Lavine damn sure wasn't some sure fire, smooth operating offensive player. He was a super athletic, raw freshman who developed some serious jump shot consistency and offensive move packages once in the league. He was drafted on his freak athleticism.

 

[Mr. French]

PS I never said he was an exact replica of Zach Lavine, not sure why that's being targeted. I also didn't say he's even as good a prospect as Lavine, offensively. I agree that Lavine's shot was MORE smooth and workable than Jackson.

My original comment was towards a poster discussing how GOOD of a shooter and offensive prospect he was, which is not accurate to my recollection. He was a raw athlete drafted almost exclusively on athleticism and potential. That was my main comment.

 

[Huskyforlife]

PS I never said he was an exact replica of Zach Lavine, not sure why that's being targeted. I also didn't say he's even as good a prospect as Lavine, offensively. I agree that Lavine's shot was MORE smooth and workable than Jackson.

My original comment was towards a poster discussing how GOOD of a shooter and offensive prospect he was, which is not accurate to my recollection. He was a raw athlete drafted almost exclusively on athleticism and potential. That was my main comment.

It’s because you said he wasn’t a natural shooter, which was wrong. Nobody is arguing he was a nuanced offensive player in college.

 

[bigknight3]

Andre is not Tyreke Evans. People are out of their minds in this thread.

He’s AJ, he’s a great helper handling the ball when needed. He can get a rebound and go coast to coast in a couple seconds. He has excellent vision sometimes to a fault last year turning it over, yet showed he could see the floor very well. He was our best interior passer getting it to Sanogo where he needed it.
He also took it from the perimeter to the hole hardly ever, he had a weak floater and maybe dunked off a set twice. He’s not going to dribble off a pick and stop and pop, he’s a catch and shooter. Kids good, potentially really good but....
He’s not our “PG” he’s our all around combo guard, swing man. If he’s “running” the point the staff failed in their quest to find capable ball handlers, team leaders.

Simple.

I didn't say he was Tyreke. I shared an article about Tyreke that discussed his shifts of position between PG, SG, and SF throughput his career.

The reasons for him not excelling at PG were his lack of vision and court awareness. These are Ajax's strengths.

The reason why Tyreke was effective with the ball in his hand were his handle and ability to finish at the rim. These are areas Jackson needs to show improvement in.

But their baseline archetype is more similar than different and coaches including hurley would be intrigued with that possibility.

 

[Mr. French]

It’s because you said he wasn’t a natural shooter, which was wrong. Nobody is arguing he was a nuanced offensive player in college.

Ok. We disagree, still. It's definitely not wrong, you may have a different opinion.

 

[WrenchFan69]

 

[bigknight3]

Nope... I refuse to believe what the coach is saying. No way he implements the plan he's told us about 3 times. I demand relevant examples to justify the coaches decision so that I can argue why it won't happen for the next 4 pages of this thread!

 

[Deleted at users request]

Nope... I refuse to believe what the coach is saying. No way he implements the plan he's told us about 3 times. I demand relevant examples to justify the coaches decision so that I can argue why it won't happen for the next 4 pages of this thread!

Nobody is saying that it won't happen and that Hurley isn't doing it... People are just saying it's a bad idea based on the fact that it never has worked before.

 

[bigknight3]

Nobody is saying that it won't happen and that Hurley isn't doing it... People are just saying it's a bad idea based on the fact that it never has worked before.

Hope you'll agree that most of us are going to trust Hurley's opinion more than yours considering he's paid to do this and has relationships with two Hall of Fame coaches at practice/games to get second opinions from.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Hope you'll agree that most of us are going to trust Hurley's opinion more than yours considering he's paid to do this and has relationships with two Hall of Fame coaches at practice/games to get second opinions from.

That’s fine it’s a message board made for people to give opinions. I’ve played, watched, and study enough to have my own. If Hurley was always right he’d have a championship by now. I will say it’s a lot more comfortable giving an opinion risk free on a message board than having your job on the line for it though. Lol

All I’m saying is this type of thing has never been successful. Y’all can blindly follow a coach who hasn’t won a tournament game yet on that decision despite all of basketball history but I’ll be uncomfortable until shown otherwise. I’ll be hoping for it to work though.

 

[Huskyforlife]

I wish Dan would tell us why he expects this to work. No matter how it’s span, it looks like a bold choice from an outside perspective. The Andre of last year with only some improvements would not be capable of filling this role, and now he has to come back from an injury on top of it. He must’ve looked amazing in practice.

 

[bigknight3]

If Hurley was always right he’d have a championship by now.

He hasn't had the history/tradition, resources, or facilities he has a UConn plus a full team of his own players that he's recruited until now... Hope we're Championship ready now!

 

[87Xfer]

Why are you ignoring that Ajax's passing ability and PG-like skills weren't already a part of his game coming out of high school?

Why are you ignoring that Ajax's favorite player is Pistol Pete and he envisions himself a distributor in a point-whatever you want to call it role?

Why are you ignoring that Hurley has talked about AJax running point for two years and that it'd be his best NBA position?

Why are you ignoring that after Cole, AJax was our only effective player running the point last season?

Why are you ignoring that AJax significantly cut down on turnovers and wild passes and playing out of control the half or third of the season, when those metrics have already be presented several times on the 'Yard?

Why are you ignoring that AJax running point was probably discussed on exit meetings with Hurley and he's had an entire off-season to work on improving his point-specific skills along with his outside shooting?

Why are you ignoring that we'll have our answers either way in a few weeks (longer now due to his injury)?

because he's kind of an idio....nevermind

 

[Chin Diesel]

I wish Dan would tell us why he expects this to work. No matter how it’s span, it looks like a bold choice from an outside perspective. The Andre of last year with only some improvements would not be capable of filling this role, and now he has to come back from an injury on top of it. He must’ve looked amazing in practice.

 

[mrl2016]

I don't get it either. The dude averaged 18 PPG in the AAC. It's not like he was playing in the NEC or MAAC. He won't need to score 18 PPG on our team since we have a lot more options, but he's going to be really solid. I would be shocked if he was averaging less than double digits.

Hurley’s comments about really liking Diarra raise eyebrows

However he’s also mentioned that Newtons gotta learn how they do things at UConn. Reading admittedly way in between the lines maybe Newton’s not used to practice intensity / hustle culture of UConn

Maybe the Diarra praise is a bit of coach speak to try to motivate Newton? Feel like Hurley strikes me more as the direct type but who knows

 

[gtcam]

He hasn't had the history/tradition, resources, or facilities he has a UConn plus a full team of his own players that he's recruited until now... Hope we're Championship ready now!

Thats all fine and I'm ready to get back to championship basketball
Let's just win one NCAA tournament game vs a lower rated team first
I guess they call it baby steps???????

 

[Kenny11]

Hurley’s comments about really liking Diarra raise eyebrows

However he’s also mentioned that Newtons gotta learn how they do things at UConn. Reading admittedly way in between the lines maybe Newton’s not used to practice intensity / hustle culture of UConn

Maybe the Diarra praise is a bit of coach speak to try to motivate Newton? Feel like Hurley strikes me more as the direct type but who knows

I think Diarra is just Hurley’s type.

 

[runner11]

PS I never said he was an exact replica of Zach Lavine, not sure why that's being targeted. I also didn't say he's even as good a prospect as Lavine, offensively. I agree that Lavine's shot was MORE smooth and workable than Jackson.

My original comment was towards a poster discussing how GOOD of a shooter and offensive prospect he was, which is not accurate to my recollection. He was a raw athlete drafted almost exclusively on athleticism and potential. That was my main comment.

Lavine is an interesting comp in that teams wanted to groom him into a PG even though he wasn’t really one. And they have similar freak athleticism. But read any scouting profile from the draft and they always highlighted his pure shooting. That’s the pushback. People just thought Lavine was raw and kinda sucked outside of shooting and jumping and that’s why the pick was panned.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

I think Diarra is just Hurley’s type.

ok, i'll play... what exactly is "hurley's type?'
rah, rah, sis boom bah?
new riders of the purple sage?
mama's warm home baked cookies?
better get us now ....?
45:06?
5 no-name kids parading around with the hardware, pretending to be some kind of fab 5?
up on the wall?
all i know, from the evidence thus far, is that getting players to the league seems to occupy his brain. nice story but as a fan of the team, the players future really isn't high on my list of priorities. winning is. it's the only thing.
on this tristen thing, i really don't know or even have an opinion on this rent-a-player, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt and just wait and see. let's hope for the best. same with alleyne. the honest observer of that situation will look closer and learn that his coach recruited more new 'killer 3' dudes for his killer 3 team, and our guys time was slip sliding away at seasons end, while staring at a pantload of new 3 jackers coming in. him too, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt and just wait and see. let's hope for the best. my regular movement isn't dependent on jumping to conclusions, but i do have questions which should be answered in the fullness of time.

(and now, for the big finish)
do any of youse know that going newt is the better move than having corey here for possibly 4 years?
i don't.
i do know, garantee, that not playing donno early and often, and alex too, will scare the pants off of me. it just feels like, no proof just feelings, that them two belong on the floor together, like pizza and scamootz. toss corey in there, and it be the 'take no crap' squad.
didja notice danny's 'we have to be tougher' comment? i did.
duh.

 

[Mr. French]

Lavine is an interesting comp in that teams wanted to groom him into a PG even though he wasn’t really one. And they have similar freak athleticism. But read any scouting profile from the draft and they always highlighted his pure shooting. That’s the pushback. People just thought Lavine was raw and kinda sucked outside of shooting and jumping and that’s why the pick was panned.

Just to wrap this up, because I like the convo ... I agree with all of this, except that there was a consensus he was a "pure" shooter. He had a nice stroke that projected well if he kept developing it, but he was an insane athlete.

Just because I wanted to acknowledge that my memory may not be EXACTLY accurate, I looked up a few reports. The first 2 I read mentioned his athleticism the first 7 strengths then said he has a "sweet stroke but unorthodox release" and mentioned how he also fades a ton and has bad shot selection sometimes ... the second one mentioned his scorer's mentality and being a "respectable shooter" who struggles to finish, but projects as a scoring 2-guard because he's got tools and crazy athleticism (last part paraphrased).

Again, I will say it is not an exact comp but I don't remember a ton of talk about him being some Bradley Beal / Ray Allen type. He was a freak athlete they wanted to make into a CG. He ultimately became more of a 2.

Jackson is not the offensive prospect he was, I've said that all along.