Top 5 UConn Point Guards

[mauconnfan]

I was there when Whelton played and I loved him. Hard to compare eras, but do you think Whelton would have gotten much PT in 2014?
Maybe that would be a good litmus test. Who of these folks would have taken Boat's PG minutes last year. If not, you can't be top 5 because Boat isn't (yet)
Quite the record our PGs have. Everyone has had to drop either Price or Williams, or Sheffer from their list! That is amazing.

Anyway Mau, I think Whelton is top 10 too and I have to assume he won't stay there very long. Success can be a bitch.

Lucky fans to even have this comparison huh?

He may have taken some PG time while moving Bazz to the 2. Only issue we have is he definitely wasn't guarding anyone like Boat but having said that we're not sure Boat will be a great PG. So the comparison's are for fun anyway. Wonder if he'd still have the mop on his head if he played in this day and age? LOL

 

[tentoes4rings]

To be fair, I thought dyson was playing and would have played alot better that season until he got injured.
I kinda think that him getting injured and putting price in the floor general role kinda helped mature Price and improve his play dramatically. Price did have some Iffy decisions sometimes though, I can still remember watching games sometimes and think to myself "what? why did he think that was a good idea".

I would have

1.A) Kemba (sorry bazz but I just gotta)
1.B) Bazz (was close but I think Kemba takes it by a slim margin)
3) El-Amin
4) Marcus Williams

Most likely, I'll have to think on 5 and maybe edit the list later after thought about it a little more.

I think the reason many of us want to rank Bazz a slight notch higher than Kemba is due to Bazz getting a 2nd ring. However, if Kemba wasn't superhuman that one year Bazz wouldn't have gotten the first ring. Kemba shouldn't be dropped on a list because he was the main reason the guy above him has one more ring. Kemba did get to a Final Four as well so that needs to be taken into consideration. IMO, the bottom line is you can't go wrong with either at 1 and the other at 2. Being able to even have these debates is what makes us so ridiculously lucky to be Husky fans.

 

[David 76]

It is a legacy of point guards. Look at the people not on the list. Start with the coaching staff.

It always surprises me when newer fans or national taking heads call us a big-man team. Calhoun and KO have focused on ther PGs

 

[MilliniumPrince]

KEA
Chris Smith
Kemba
Marcus
Bazz

Honorable Mention Taliek and Doron

Of course this depends on if you are ranking overall talent or pure point skills.

 

[RichZ]

That's for @RichZ to decide. Looks acceptable to me minus punctuation.

I can only assume that you are referring to a replay from someone I have blocked. Due to the tone of the message you responded to, I can only assume it was chap.

 

[Davidm]

KEA
Chris Smith
Kemba
Marcus
Bazz

Honorable Mention Taliek and Doron

Of course this depends on if you are ranking overall talent or pure point skills.

The way I see it is take the best year they performed and decide who you would rather have as the starter, backup #1, #2, #3 ect.

I think in terms of overall talent kemba has this one with bazz just slightly behind but really kemba was in a league of his own in overall talent and ability / potential. Also I believe bazz became the player he was because of learning from kemba, including his work attitude and alot of mental quirks really intangibles that you can't teach but could watch and learn from others.

Edit: Oh and plus kemba definitely taught Shabazz the head fake (drive the lane and throw your head up to show the refs there was contact incase they missed it) I really hope boat picked up on that and can pass that on. Always loved that move.

 

[RichZ]

It is a legacy of point guards. Look at the people not on the list. Start with the coaching staff.

It always surprises me when newer fans or national taking heads call us a big-man team. Calhoun and KO have focused on ther PGs

Pre Okafor, they usually called us a donut team. After that we got wealthy in the middle. In 04, we had Mek, Josh, CharlieV and Hilton on the same team. Of course it was before HA blossomed in his senior season, but still... That team had 4 bigs who were drafted in the 1st round, all on the same team.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

The way I see it is take the best year they performed and decide who you would rather have as the starter, backup #1, #2, #3 ect.

I think in terms of overall talent kemba has this one with bazz just slightly behind but really kemba was in a league of his own in overall talent and ability / potential. Also I believe bazz became the player he was because of learning from kemba, including his work attitude and alot of mental quirks really intangibles that you can't teach but could watch and learn from others.

Edit: Oh and plus kemba definitely taught Shabazz the head fake (drive the lane and throw your head up to show the refs there was contact incase they missed it) I really hope boat picked up on that and can pass that on. Always loved that move.

Fair enough. I have a hard time placing Bazz above Khalid. One one one, I think KEA was better than Bazz...but they are so similar to me. No one had bigger stones than those two...except maybe Kemba. I think many forget how well rounded Marcus was due to the fact the '06 team under achieved.

 

[RichZ]

I would never say my list is the 5 BEST point guards we had. It's just my favorites. The PG's I really, really enjoyed, and in that regard, my top five consists of a three way tie for first, followed by a 2 way tie for next.

Kemba/Bazz/Ricky
Taleik/KEA

I was watching the UConn/Oklahoma game from '04 today, and it really reminded me what a good PG TBrown was. Not many of our PGs could rifle a one handed pass off the dribble from beyond half court with deadly accuracy and timing like he could.

 

[David 76]

Remember the "donut team" remarks. A bit tough on Jake, Rod and Travis, but that was our rep.

Pre Okafor, they usually called us a donut team. After that we got wealthy in the middle. In 04, we had Mek, Josh, CharlieV and Hilton on the same team. Of course it was before HA blossomed in his senior season, but still... That team had 4 bigs who were drafted in the 1st round, all on the same team.

Remember the "donut" years. Thought that label was harsh for Travis, Jake and Rod (especially when you look at who Sellers played against, undersized and with a bad leg) Most of the past 12 years has been very different

 

[Robertelamin]

I would never say my list is the 5 BEST point guards we had. It's just my favorites. The PG's I really, really enjoyed, and in that regard, my top five consists of a three way tie for first, followed by a 2 way tie for next.

Kemba/Bazz/Ricky
Taleik/KEA

I was watching the UConn/Oklahoma game from '04 today, and it really reminded me what a good PG TBrown was. Not many of our PGs could rifle a one handed pass off the dribble from beyond half court with deadly accuracy and timing like he could.

No way would I put Ricky or Taliek over El-Amin, but I'm biased. I think offensively Marcus was the best pure point guard. Defensively Ricky was the best but Boat might be in the conversation by the end of the year. As for leadership I think El-Amin was running things before he ever officially signed at UConn, though I would have no problem with Kemba or Shabazz.

 

[tentoes4rings]

No way would I put Ricky or Taliek over El-Amin, but I'm biased. I think offensively Marcus was the best pure point guard. Defensively Ricky was the best but Boat might be in the conversation by the end of the year. As for leadership I think El-Amin was running things before he ever officially signed at UConn, though I would have no problem with Kemba or Shabazz.

Interesting analysis. Your post brings up the point of what are we measuring them based on? Are we measuring them on team success? Numbers? Their overall game?

I loved KEA for being a huge part of the first championship but I remember games like the second 99-00 St. John's game where he got absolutely torched defensively by Barkley (who is easily 1st team all ugly by the way) and we lost by 20.

My favorite overall PG prior to Kemba and Bazz's heroics was KO. I think as far as a running a team, playing great on both sides of the ball, late game management and team success he is right up there. Had his teams gotten a ring or two I think more people would agree with me. With 5 minutes to go, I'm not sure we've had a PG I had more confidence in to pull out a W with his composure and clutch free throw shooting.

 

[tzznandrew]

Defining terms: Top 5, as I imagine it, is not a career award. At the player's peaks, where do they rank?

Kemba is, to me, clearly #1. He had the greatest individual season, and his performance took a weak, inexperienced team (sorry Chuck and Donnell) to a place they really had no right being.

#2 is difficult. As a PG season, I'm going with Shabazz, and as an overall career, I'm also going with Shabazz (and, if we're not talking positionally, but "greatest huskies," he may be #1). But Khalid is closer here than in my initial thoughts. Dude won an NCAA tournament, and would have made the Final Four the next year if it weren't for his injury. I mean, look at the 2000 bracket: if they beat Tennessee (which they would have with a healthy KEA), they get #8 seed UNC, and then #7 Tulsa for a right to the Final Four...and then #5 seed Florida in the Final Four. They had a legitimate shot of repeating were it not for an injury. Obviously counter-factuals are problematic, but we use them all the time for the 2009 team, and so it seems fair. I guess I go with Shabazz, because his team wasn't as good as KEA's 1999 team (not even close), but KEA's team had a much tougher title game. 1999 Duke would have bitch-slapped anyone in the 2014 tournament, and would have done it by dubs as they did to everyone in their tournament but UConn. So I think this is 2A and 2B for "best PG."

The remaining choices are rough: too many good players. Marcus Williams was the best passer we ever had; Doron Sheffer was probably the best combination shooter/passer we've had; AJP was probably the best shooter we had at PG; Ricky was the best defender we had--hopefully Boat combines some of all these guys into something great for his senior year. He's definitely capable of it.

 

[superjohn]

I love me some Taliek but to the people that think he is a top 5 all-time point guard, ummm no. Sometimes a player gets blasted by the fanbase over the years so much that we tend to overrate him, this seems to be the case with Taliek.

 

[tzznandrew]

I love me some Taliek but to the people that think he is a top 5 all-time point guard, ummm no. Sometimes a player gets blasted by the fanbase over the years so much that we tend to overrate him, this seems to be the case with Taliek.

A very good defensive player who was a steady leader. But he's not Top 5 overall.

That's not to demean him, either. Even though KEA, Williams, Sheffer, and AJP are all better, you couldn't replace Taliek with them because Gordon didn't play defense (Kemba or Bazz, you could).

 

[RichZ]

With 5 minutes to go, I'm not sure we've had a PG I had more confidence in to pull out a W with his composure and clutch free throw shooting.

You have a short memory. We did have that the last 2 seasons. And KO was coaching him.

 

[RichZ]

I love me some Taliek but to the people that think he is a top 5 all-time point guard, ummm no. Sometimes a player gets blasted by the fanbase over the years so much that we tend to overrate him, this seems to be the case with Taliek.

I know he wasn't one of the greatest over all, but I loved watching him play. Like I said. My list was the 5 I enjoyed the most.

 

[Kitaman]

I love me some Taliek but to the people that think he is a top 5 all-time point guard, ummm no. Sometimes a player gets blasted by the fanbase over the years so much that we tend to overrate him, this seems to be the case with Taliek.

I mentioned Taliek but not as a top 5. Posters were listing 8 or so point guards omitting Taliek.

Taliek out of respect deserves always to be an honorable mention when naming UConn PG greats. Secondly I feel obligated to bring his name up in the conversation if only that he doesn't become forgotten.

 

[SubbaBub]

If you want to base it on net baskets created (NBC) per game which IMO is the job of a point guard, the list looks like this:

1. Kemba Walker
2. Marcus Williams
3. Tate George
4. Doron Sheffer
5. Khalid El Amin
6. Chris Smith
7. Ben Gordon
8. Talik Brown
9. Shabazz Napier
10. Karl Hobbs
11. AJ Price
12. Kevin Ollie
13. Ricky Moore

I started with the career assist leaders and added number of baskets (points - 3*3FGM divided by 2) then added half the number of steal to simulate opponents baskets denied. This is the NBC.

If you add OReb, DReb, and TO's you might get a different list. but this is close enough for me. If you want to go really deep, remove baskets lost due to poor shooting. In looking through the stats, I noticed a few of these guys were a little too trigger happy especially from 3.

Williams is "helped" by only playing 70 games, while Bazz is hurt by playing 10 more games than anyone else. If you go by total NBC over their entire UConn career, it looks like this:

1. Shabazz Napier
2. Tate George
3. Talik Brown
4. Kemba Walker
5. Chris Smith
6. Khalid El Amin
7. Karl Hobbs
8. Kevin Ollie
9. Doron Sheffer
10. Ben Gordon
11. Ricky Moore
12. AJ Price
13. Marcus Williams

There are other ways to look at it. Number of All-Conference teams, All-Americans, POTY awards, and of course Conference and National Titles, but I prefer to focus on what they did when they had the ball, which is everything for a PG.

 

[Robertelamin]

This is where numbers do lie, would you really want Tate George over Sheffer, El-Amin, AJ or Nappier? Or Tate over Kemba, El-Amin, Sheffer, AJ and Marcus? No way.

 

[SubbaBub]

This is where numbers do lie, would you really want Tate George over Sheffer, El-Amin, AJ or Nappier? Or Tate over Kemba, El-Amin, Sheffer, AJ and Marcus? No way.

It is what it is. Do I think Tate was in the top 5? Not necessarily, but don't confuse style with substance. I would say 1-2 is Kemba and Chris Smith. KEA is a solid 3, with the last two spots subject to interpretation. For my money, I'll take Bazz and Williams to round out the top 5.

FWIW, I think it is not a coincidence that it's a very tough call, with all these guys having similar traits and success. It's almost as if some person purposely intended it.

 

[HailUConn]

I cannot help to get this out of my chest:


If and this is a big if, RB lead this year's squad to the first back2back Champ, it will catapult him straight to the 3rd in this list, right behind Kemba and Bazz.

Disclaimer: I did not read the whole 3 pages of posts, so if this or the like has been posted, my apologies.

 

[UconnU]

Bazz is going off right now in the preseason game.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Shabazz affected the game in just so many different ways. Also, his Junior season is still extremely underrated.

 

[mauconnfan]

A very good defensive player who was a steady leader. But he's not Top 5 overall.

That's not to demean him, either. Even though KEA, Williams, Sheffer, and AJP are all better, you couldn't replace Taliek with them because Gordon didn't play defense (Kemba or Bazz, you could).

And visi versi LOL...........