Tina vs. Rebecca

[Wally East]

Not really. 'Becca's three point shots, by year.

Okay, so who played center when Kara wasn't on the floor? And 84 3-pt shots included, I assure you she played center her sophomore year as well.

1. In terms of athletic skill, there is really no comparison. Tina is and always was stronger, faster, and could jump higher than Rebecca. Tina relished physical play, while Rebecca was bothered by it and considered it an annoyance.

Not all the time. She had to learn to be physical. That's why she was dominated by Sylvia Fowles.

Was Rebecca a more important contributor to the 1995 National Championship than Tina was to the 2009 and 2010 NC's? Probably so -- she had no Maya / Renee / Kalana / Tiffany to play with. With those teammates, she might not have been any more conspicuous than Kalana was, as opposed to being the team's superstar.

Wait, really? You think if you put Rebecca on a team with Maya, Renee, Kalana, and Tiffany, that she'd be the 3rd or 4th option? Obviously, Maya is the first option on any team. But you really think that Renee, Tiffany, and Kalana are better than Jen, Kara, and Nykesha by that much?

 

[VAUConnFan]

and Tina faced Appel, Vaughn and Griner

You left out Fowles.

 

[HuskyNan]

Okay, so who played center when Kara wasn't on the floor? And 84 3-pt shots included, I assure you she played center her sophomore year as well.

Not all the time. She had to learn to be physical. That's why she was dominated by Sylvia Fowles.



Wait, really? You think if you put Rebecca on a team with Maya, Renee, Kalana, and Tiffany, that she'd be the 3rd or 4th option? Obviously, Maya is the first option on any team. But you really think that Renee, Tiffany, and Kalana are better than Jen, Kara, and Nykesha by that much?

Geno has never been hung up on the 1-2-3-4-5 positions - that's why he recruits versatile players rather than "pure pg" or pure any position. ThTs why he would play Swin-Tamika-Ashja together frequently rather than sitting one to play Jess Moore.

 

[DaddyChoc]

You left out Fowles.

Yeah I saw Big Syl name pop up later in the thread

 

[tony yusef]

The All-UCONN frontcourt consists of Lobo, Maya and Stewie, with Tina on the 2nd team.

I kind of feel responsible for this discussion (Tina vs Rebecca) and I must say I'm a little taken back by the romanticizing that the 95' team still gets. Listen, they were the first but NONE of them are the best. I don't need someone to post a list of stats I have always had two working eyes, Rebecca was a very good player but she was at no point a better player than Tina Charles.

When Tina was "underachieving" by Geno's standard she was still every bit the player Lobo was, Tina is a whole different level of athlete.

 

[Wally East]

When Tina was "underachieving" by Geno's standard she was still every bit the player Lobo was, Tina is a whole different level of athlete.

What are you basing that on?

 

[geneticrex]

I kind of feel responsible for this discussion (Tina vs Rebecca) and I must say I'm a little taken back by the romanticizing that the 95' team still gets. Listen, they were the first but NONE of them are the best. I don't need someone to post a list of stats I have always had two working eyes, Rebecca was a very good player but she was at no point a better player than Tina Charles.

When Tina was "underachieving" by Geno's standard she was still every bit the player Lobo was, Tina is a whole different level of athlete.

Tina was a better 5.

 

[UcMiami]

I kind of feel responsible for this discussion (Tina vs Rebecca) and I must say I'm a little taken back by the romanticizing that the 95' team still gets. Listen, they were the first but NONE of them are the best. I don't need someone to post a list of stats I have always had two working eyes, Rebecca was a very good player but she was at no point a better player than Tina Charles.

When Tina was "underachieving" by Geno's standard she was still every bit the player Lobo was, Tina is a whole different level of athlete.

They are separated by 15 years which is an eternity in sports and especially in women's sports. Put you sports hero from 30 years ago in any sport at their prime in a competition with todays players and they will look like high school kids - speed, muscle tone, nutrition, training regime, technological advances, and recovery theory, not to mention medical technology all improve exponentially. Rebecca her senior season was the best player in WCBB, Tina in her season shared that honor. They both won the NC. Use a time machine and put those two teams on the court together and the 1995 version loses to the 2010 version, but so does the fastest runner, the best high jumper, the best NBA team, etc. Of course that supposes that Tina doesn't leave the court with two black eyes, and Maya is able to lift her arms to shoulder height after Jamelle works her over, and Bria is still able to walk - 2010 might be faster and more highly skilled just by the progression of time, but I suspect 1995 still wins the bloody mindedness title or Kib's Badass Award hands down.

 

[HuskyNan]

They are separated by 15 years which is an eternity in sports and especially in women's sports. Put you sports hero from 30 years ago in any sport at their prime in a competition with todays players and they will look like high school kids - speed, muscle tone, nutrition, training regime, technological advances, and recovery theory, not to mention medical technology all improve exponentially. Rebecca her senior season was the best player in WCBB, Tina in her season shared that honor. They both won the NC. Use a time machine and put those two teams on the court together and the 1995 version loses to the 2010 version, but so does the fastest runner, the best high jumper, the best NBA team, etc. Of course that supposes that Tina doesn't leave the court with two black eyes, and Maya is able to lift her arms to shoulder height after Jamelle works her over, and Bria is still able to walk - 2010 might be faster and more highly skilled just by the progression of time, but I suspect 1995 still wins the bloody mindedness title or Kib's Badass Award hands down.

Jen vs Bria - Bria might win the game but she'd be the one in the whirlpool the next day.

 

[EricLA]

To add to what UC Miami said - Women's tennis is a perfect example.

Martina Hingis was dominant in her era and was winning grand slams up till about 2000 as a singles player. Injuries sidelined her for about a year and she continued to win in doubles, but while making deep runs in singles, she was not winning GS's after that and had more injuries for several years. In 2006 and 2007 she tried to come back but was losing in earlier rounds.

Fast forward 15 years to 2015. She would get slaughtered by players in singles even outside the top 50. She's petite and not strong. She can't hit with any of the big guns in singles any longer. While she's a phenom in doubles, her first serve is about 80 MPH. My point is that comparing Hingis in 2000 to Serena in 2015 is crazy. Serena of today would slaughter the Hingis of 2000.

Players now are stronger, faster, serve harder, and are more fit. But also the tennis rackets are far different. I know you can't say the equipment is different now for WCBB than it was 15 years ago, but that's part of the reason why comparing Lobo from 1995 to Stewie of 2015 is impossible. Same with comparing Jen to Bird, or to Jefferson. 15-20 years makes a huge difference in strength, fitness, development, etc in WCBB.

Reminds me of a great quote from Kill Bill - by Budd.. "If you're gonna compare a Hanzo sword, you compare it to every other sword ever made... that wasn't made by Hattori Hanzo"...

 

[j66kicker]

I think 1995 Jen could play with 2001 Sue or 2016 Moriah. I also think 1995 Lobo could play with 2010 Tina, and she might smoke 2013 Dolson. These were NPOYs too, not merely first team AAs. Michael Jordan was from their ancient era too - you don't think he could have kept up with today's high tech athletes?

 

[UcMiami]

I think 1995 Jen could play with 2001 Sue or 2016 Moriah. I also think 1995 Lobo could play with 2010 Tina, and she might smoke 2013 Dolson. These were NPOYs too, not merely first team AAs. Michael Jordan was from their ancient era too - you don't think he could have kept up with today's high tech athletes?

I think he would not be Michael Jordan in today's game, employed but not what he was in that universe. And I think women in the last twenty years have come further athletically than men in the areas we are talking about - in 1982 Lobo as an 8 year old was not being exposed to as much athletic rigor as today's female 8 year olds, and that would be true all the way through high school for her. The comparison for boys would not be as great over the same time period. All the other changing aspects of nutrition, training, etc. are similar for both genders but the changes in access and intensity for girls increases the variable and it is only in very recent times that this has become fairly balanced across gender.

 

[tony yusef]

What are you basing that on?

My two eyeballs....

 

[tony yusef]

I think 1995 Jen could play with 2001 Sue or 2016 Moriah. I also think 1995 Lobo could play with 2010 Tina, and she might smoke 2013 Dolson. These were NPOYs too, not merely first team AAs. Michael Jordan was from their ancient era too - you don't think he could have kept up with today's high tech athletes?

I say this respectfully, you're delusional if you think Jen could keep up with Moriah on either end of the court... Tina was a superior athlete to Lobo and would've had her way. She had her way with 6'8 Britney Griner whose likes the women's game has never seen before or since.

 

[JordyG]

Tina.

 

[j66kicker]

I say this respectfully, you're delusional if you think Jen could keep up with Moriah on either end of the court... Tina was a superior athlete to Lobo and would've had her way. She had her way with 6'8 Britney Griner whose likes the women's game has never seen before or since.

I'm sure Jen couldn't run as fast. I remember her as a great passer, clutch shooter, great defender, and most of all a fierce competitor. If coach tells Moriah to face guard her, shut her down, take her out of the game, I don't see her being a non-factor - would be a good battle.

 

[Wally East]

My two eyeballs....

Say Rebecca took (to use a made-up number for the sake of an example but one that probably isn't too far off) 4.5 seconds to run the length of the court in 1995. You feel comfortable saying that Tina ran the court in less time in 2010? How much less? A tenth less? Two tenths? More?

And strength. How are you assessing strength? Whether someone looks more muscular or something else?

Now, I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you regarding Tina being faster and stronger. I just want to understand how you're reaching that conclusion, especially given the 12-year gap between Rebecca's senior season and Tina's freshman.

Saying that players generally are faster and stronger now versus 20 years ago for whatever various reasons is another debate. It also doesn't necessarily apply since we're talking about two specific individuals.

 

[JSB60]

Good discussion because the two players are very close to the same level. Reasonable people could disagree. I think Lobo was "greater" because of what she meant to the program, but very hard to decide which player was better in college. Skill matches don't tell the story because of the position difference, with Rebecca being a stretch 4 before the term was invented (I know she could fill in at center), and Tina being a pretty classic 5. Neither one could have defended the other.

 

[trb123]

I lived in the Bay area from 1990-1992. I became interested in NCAAW basketball because of Stanford. I became a UCONN fan because of Rebecca Lobo. In 1994 and 1995, she had one of the most talked about French braids on TV. Even the Albuquerque TV channels (where I was living) showed it regularly.

 

[j66kicker]

I lived in the Bay area from 1990-1992. I became interested in NCAAW basketball because of Stanford. I became a UCONN fan because of Rebecca Lobo. In 1994 and 1995, she had one of the most talked about French braids on TV. Even the Albuquerque TV channels (where I was living) showed it regularly.

That settles it then - Rebecca wins the Lobo vs. Charles debate hands down, and gets the dominant position on the UCONN Mt. Rushmore with French braid prominently displayed !

 

[cbraarj]

They are separated by 15 years which is an eternity in sports and especially in women's sports. Put you sports hero from 30 years ago in any sport at their prime in a competition with todays players and they will look like high school kids - speed, muscle tone, nutrition, training regime, technological advances, and recovery theory, not to mention medical technology all improve exponentially. Rebecca her senior season was the best player in WCBB, Tina in her season shared that honor. They both won the NC. Use a time machine and put those two teams on the court together and the 1995 version loses to the 2010 version, but so does the fastest runner, the best high jumper, the best NBA team, etc. Of course that supposes that Tina doesn't leave the court with two black eyes, and Maya is able to lift her arms to shoulder height after Jamelle works her over, and Bria is still able to walk - 2010 might be faster and more highly skilled just by the progression of time, but I suspect 1995 still wins the bloody mindedness title or Kib's Badass Award hands down.

Nobody better than Michael Jordan in his prime!