Tina vs. Rebecca

[Wally East]

Career
Tina
15.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.0 bpg, 1.2 apg, FG% .610

Rebecca
16.9 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.14 bpg, 2.06 apg, FG% .498

Peak
Tina (senior season, ’09-‘10)
18.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.38 bpg, 1.62 apg, FG% .618

Rebecca (junior season, ’93-’94)
19.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.97 bpg, 2.06 apg, FG% .546

Per 40 minutes, career
Tina
24.3 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 3.14 bpg, 1.89 apg

Rebecca
23.9 ppg, 14.2 rpg, 4.43 bg, 2.91 apg

Per 40 minutes, peak season
Tina
26.3 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 3.45 bpg, 2.34 apg

Rebecca
26.3 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 5.42 bpg, 2.82 apg

Tina was a significantly better shooter than Rebecca (even when just accounting for Rebecca's two-points and excluding her three-pointers). Scoring and rebounding are similar on a per 40 minute basis for their careers (for her career, Rebecca played about 3 minutes per game more than Tina). Rebecca was much better at blocking shots and passing.

A little surprisingly was that Tina's rebounding dipped on a per 40 basis for her peak season as compared to her career.

While Tina did play with UConn’s all-time leading scorer for three seasons, Rebecca played with Kara for two seasons and Nykesha for a season, both of whom scored more than 2,000 points.

(In case anyone is wondering, Stefanie is a notch below these two in everything except for passing. She's probably also just a below Kara.)

 

[vtcwbuff]

It's tough to make statistical comparisons for players of different eras. Stats aside, IMO Tina Charles was the best center to ever wear a UConn uniform. .

 

[Wally East]

It's tough to make statistical comparisons for players of different eras.

No, it's not -- I just did it

Stats aside, IMO Tina Charles was the best center to ever wear a UConn uniform.

Without agreeing or disagreeing, what are you basing that on?

 

[DaddyChoc]

and Tina faced Appel, Vaughn and Griner

 

[reno tony]

It's tough to make statistical comparisons for players of different eras. Stats aside, IMO Tina Charles was the best center to ever wear a UConn uniform. .

No, it's not -- I just did it

Funniest quote in a year.

 

[Wally East]

and Tina faced Appel, Vaughn and Griner

And Rebecca faced Whiting, Hemmer, Johnson, Palmer, and Aycock.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Who?

 

[UcMiami]

Nice comparison Wally.
I would mention that Lobo spent about half her college career playing forward and not center while Tina never played anything but center until her professional career, and while her three point shooting does not change the balance on shooting percentages, I suspect if you had the complete shot charts for both players there would be a significant difference in 15' shots and out vs. 5' shots and in.

And to complete the stat line:
Tina A/TO = 0.60
Lobo A/TO = 0.74

Tina Steals per game = 0.64 and per 40 = 1.01
Lobo Steals per game = 1.03 and per 40 = 1.46

Tina Career FG % - .637 (410 makes, 2.7 per game, 4.2/40 min)
Lobo Career FG% - .695 (401 makes, 3.2/game, 4.5/40 min)

They really have very comparable stats playing in very different eras both in terms of team development and competitive environment. And in terms of most fans - we saw many more of Tina's games than of Rebecca's and much more recently - I know I saw almost every game of Tina's career, and just a few of Rebecca's. The other differentiation - Lobo was 'transformative' in being one of the first tall players comfortable out to the three point arc. Tina was a more traditional post player with size and strength from the free throw line in.

 

[Wally East]

Who?

Just because you have forgotten or never knew them doesn't make them any poorer for it.

Val Whiting and Rachel Hemmer played for Stanford. Dana Johnson played for Tennessee. Wendy Palmer played for Virginia. Angela Aycock played for Kansas. Plus, Sylvia Crawley who played for UNC.

They were all either All-Americans or All-Final Four or both.

 

[vtcwbuff]

No, it's not -- I just did it



Without agreeing or disagreeing, what are you basing that on?

I saw Lobo play and I saw Charles play.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Just because you have forgotten or never knew them doesn't make them any poorer for it.

Val Whiting and Rachel Hemmer played for Stanford. Dana Johnson played for Tennessee. Wendy Palmer played for Virginia. Angela Aycock played for Kansas. Plus, Sylvia Crawley who played for UNC.

They were all either All-Americans or All-Final Four or both.

Oh I heard of them, well Whiting Palmer and Crawley

 

[trb123]

Wally East has posted a statistical comparison of Tina Charles and Rebecca Lobo.
It should stay at that.

Because the supporting cast, the quality of opposition and perhaps the way basketball is played (see note below) are different during the two eras, it is difficult for me to draw any conclusion from the statistics.

Note: Geno might have asked the two players to do slightly different tasks. That would mean the two players had different roles to fill.

 

[Wally East]

I saw Lobo play and I saw Charles play.

Without diminishing your point of view, relying solely on what you see, without consulting stats, can be difficult. For example, the difference between a 40% shooter and a 50% shooter is 1 shot in 10. That can be very difficult to observe. I'm not saying it's not possible just that it's difficult.

 

[Wally East]

Nice comparison Wally.
I would mention that Lobo spent about half her college career playing forward and not center while Tina never played anything but center until her professional career, and while her three point shooting does not change the balance on shooting percentages, I suspect if you had the complete shot charts for both players there would be a significant difference in 15' shots and out vs. 5' shots and in.

Mostly agreed. Rebecca assuredly played center her last two years whenever she was on the floor and Kara wasn't.

Tina Career FG % - .637 (410 makes, 2.7 per game, 4.2/40 min)
Lobo Career FG% - .695 (401 makes, 3.2/game, 4.5/40 min)

I believe you mean FT%

 

[Wally East]

Oh I heard of them, well Whiting Palmer and Crawley

Okay, great

 

[DaddyChoc]

Tina would bust them too

 

[geneticrex]

The All-UCONN frontcourt consists of Lobo, Maya and Stewie, with Tina on the 2nd team.

 

[meyers7]

Career
Tina
15.4 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.0 bpg, 1.2 apg, FG% .610

Rebecca
16.9 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.14 bpg, 2.06 apg, FG% .498

Peak
Tina (senior season, ’09-‘10)
18.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.38 bpg, 1.62 apg, FG% .618

Rebecca (junior season, ’93-’94)
19.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.97 bpg, 2.06 apg, FG% .546

Per 40 minutes, career
Tina
24.3 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 3.14 bpg, 1.89 apg

Rebecca
23.9 ppg, 14.2 rpg, 4.43 bg, 2.91 apg

Per 40 minutes, peak season
Tina
26.3 ppg, 13.8 rpg, 3.45 bpg, 2.34 apg

Rebecca
26.3 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 5.42 bpg, 2.82 apg

Tina was a significantly better shooter than Rebecca (even when just accounting for Rebecca's two-points and excluding her three-pointers). Scoring and rebounding are similar on a per 40 minute basis for their careers (for her career, Rebecca played about 3 minutes per game more than Tina). Rebecca was much better at blocking shots and passing.

A little surprisingly was that Tina's rebounding dipped on a per 40 basis for her peak season as compared to her career.

While Tina did play with UConn’s all-time leading scorer for three seasons, Rebecca played with Kara for two seasons and Nykesha for a season, both of whom scored more than 2,000 points.

(In case anyone is wondering, Stefanie is a notch below these two in everything except for passing. She's probably also just a below Kara.)

I consider Lobo a PF/4 as opposed to an actual C/5 as I consider Charles. So I would compare Lobo to Stewart. Charles to Wolters and Dolson.

 

[meyers7]

The All-UCONN frontcourt consists of Lobo, Maya and Stewie, with Tina on the 2nd team.

No, you got that one backwards. But close.

 

[JoePgh]

I have a few thoughts on this burning controversy (which doesn't seem relevant to anything about UConn WCBB that is currently taking place):

1. In terms of athletic skill, there is really no comparison. Tina is and always was stronger, faster, and could jump higher than Rebecca. Tina relished physical play, while Rebecca was bothered by it and considered it an annoyance.
2. But in terms in realized potential while at UConn (as opposed to potential realized subsequently), Rebecca had a significant edge. There are big parts of Tina's game (such as jump shooting) that she only developed as a pro.
3. Rebecca was best when playing as a forward, like Stewie. It would have been a waste for her to play always in the paint, where she was vulnerable to losing physical battles. And she had Kara to do that stuff anyway, just like Stewie has had Stef, Kiah, and now Morgan. Whereas Tina played nearly 100% in the paint while she was at UConn (not so much since then), and did it superbly. No other forward on earth has out-physicalled her, from her senior year in college to the WNBA (led league in rebounds in her rookie year, which is truly amazing) to the Olympics.
4. A point of similarity is that neither was emotionally mature when she arrived at Storrs, which caused them both to play far below their potential in their freshman and sophomore years. But Rebecca "got it" by her junior year, whereas Tina didn't really get it until her senior year, leaving much of her development to her post-college years.
5. By the time she graduated, Rebecca was about as good as she was ever going to be, even if the injuries had not occurred. By the time Tina graduated, she was at about 50% of her athletic ceiling, and has probably not reached it yet.
6. Was Rebecca a more important contributor to the 1995 National Championship than Tina was to the 2009 and 2010 NC's? Probably so -- she had no Maya / Renee / Kalana / Tiffany to play with. With those teammates, she might not have been any more conspicuous than Kalana was, as opposed to being the team's superstar.

 

[geneticrex]

No, you got that one backwards. But close.

I'll take 'close'.

I like my starting 5 to be offensive threats from the arc to the rack. Historically uncheckable.

 

[UcMiami]

I have a few thoughts on this burning controversy (which doesn't seem relevant to anything about UConn WCBB that is currently taking place):

1. In terms of athletic skill, there is really no comparison. Tina is and always was stronger, faster, and could jump higher than Rebecca. Tina relished physical play, while Rebecca was bothered by it and considered it an annoyance.
2. But in terms in realized potential while at UConn (as opposed to potential realized subsequently), Rebecca had a significant edge. There are big parts of Tina's game (such as jump shooting) that she only developed as a pro.
3. Rebecca was best when playing as a forward, like Stewie. It would have been a waste for her to play always in the paint, where she was vulnerable to losing physical battles. And she had Kara to do that stuff anyway, just like Stewie has had Stef, Kiah, and now Morgan. Whereas Tina played nearly 100% in the paint while she was at UConn (not so much since then), and did it superbly. No other forward on earth has out-physicalled her, from her senior year in college to the WNBA (led league in rebounds in her rookie year, which is truly amazing) to the Olympics.
4. A point of similarity is that neither was emotionally mature when she arrived at Storrs, which caused them both to play far below their potential in their freshman and sophomore years. But Rebecca "got it" by her junior year, whereas Tina didn't really get it until her senior year, leaving much of her development to her post-college years.
5. By the time she graduated, Rebecca was about as good as she was ever going to be, even if the injuries had not occurred. By the time Tina graduated, she was at about 50% of her athletic ceiling, and has probably not reached it yet.
6. Was Rebecca a more important contributor to the 1995 National Championship than Tina was to the 2009 and 2010 NC's? Probably so -- she had no Maya / Renee / Kalana / Tiffany to play with. With those teammates, she might not have been any more conspicuous than Kalana was, as opposed to being the team's superstar.

Well - I would say you got that just about completely wrong!
1. Stronger and bigger I'll grant you and happier being physical - though Sylvia sure roughed her up when it counted.
2. Charles was inconsistent from freshman year till half way through her junior season, but she always had game. The jump shot was developed while at Uconn and was a great asset by her junior year - the range was out to the mid key by senior year.
3. Agree - Rebecca was a modern forward before such a thing existed.
4. 18 years is generally emotionally immature - 22 is generally more mature. In a basketball sense that tends to be very true. When exactly they transitioned is debatable - I put Tina's at mid January her Junior year.
5. We'll never know what Rebecca's ceiling was - her achilles took care of that very early in her pro career. Tina led the league in rebounding as a rookie - has she done it since or has it all been down hill since then - just joking! But she was pretty well formed in terms of skills, the mental progression has continued as it does with everyone.
6. 1995 was a pretty special team, but yes Rebecca was the rockstar. Still - Nykesha, Jen, Jamelle, and Kara - two future NPOYs plus a two time AA and probably the most important player in Uconn history not on the wall (the only non-center until Stewart in the 1000 rebound club and by far the shortest in the list at 5'10".) Tina certainly had the reigning NPOY on her team each of her championship seasons, but not sure the rest of the team doesn't favor Rebecca. Both a huge part of uconn's history.

 

[HuskyNan]

Mostly agreed. Rebecca assuredly played center her last two years whenever she was on the floor and Kara wasn't.

Not really. 'Becca's three point shots, by year.

1991-1992 0-1
1992-1993 29-84 34.1%
1993-1994 11-34 32.4%
1994-1995 18-51 35.3%

Stats from UConnHuskies.com

Rebecca was more in the Stewie mold than Tina, without the athleticism of either. Note how her assists improve dramatically over her four years as Geno made her widen her game to become a more complete player. She accomplished what she did without a handful of high school All American teammates and against seemingly impossible odds. Remember, Tennessee was the giant in the game at the time; now UConn is. Tina continued the UConn women's program history of excellence, but Rebecca set the bar.

I agree with vt on comparing Rebecca to Tina - it doesn't work for me.

 

[Sonny44]

Rebecca brought us out of the wilderness. Tina had every advantage over her. UCONN by then was a well oiled machine. Geno et. al. were better coaches. Even with the better coaching it took two years for Tina to catch on to how Geno wanted her to play, much to his frustration if you recall. Rebecca had good teammates, but Tina had a superstar teammate to deflect attention away from her.

 

[meyers7]

I'll take 'close'.

I like my starting 5 to be offensive threats from the arc to the rack. Historically uncheckable.

I'll take my 5 vs your 5.