Tina Thompson to UVA

[DefenseBB]

A fair reservation to have. While Swoopes may have crashed and burned, Cynthia Cooper was actually a "decent" college coach (220-163 career record, took Prairie View A&M to two NCAA tournaments and USC to one). Stephanie White hasn't succeeded at Vandy yet, but she did lead the Fever to a WNBA finals (how much of that is simply having Catchings on the team is a fair question.) Sandy Brondello has been a better than avg. coach for the Mercury. Will be interesting to see how Katie Smith fares with the Liberty. Coquese Washington started out strong at PSU but has faded since.

Unlike Minnesota's hiring of Whalen, Tina Thompson does have high-level college coaching experience and I would expect great recruiting contacts. Will be interesting to see how she fares and what staff she hires.

I do think Thompson has stronger WCBB background than some of the others due to her time on the bench, but the long history of great players in all sports being highly successful coaches is very short.

I was talking about college and Hall of Fame players but I will give my rebuttal on both your concurrent dialogues
College:
Umm, wasn't Cooper let go at USC? While she had success at lower schools, she also crashed and burned at a P5 so as my comments are about top programs and coaches being elite, which is what Virginia is striving for, so I wouldn't say she's in the mix.

Stephanie White is not doing well at Vanderbilt and she has Carolyn Peck on her staff. She just had her best player transfer. To me, great coaches can immediately make an impact by teaching the lesser skilled players about the game and instilling discipline and effort. I haven't seen that from Ms. White.

For the WNBA- As coach of the Fever team she did not have to recruit those players/entice them to come as the GM did that. The players, for the most part are also self motivated and usually in very good physical condition. They also don't have a lot of practice time so either they already know the game or are sitting on the bench. Congrats on her title but she's still highly unproven and thus far looks like a bust especially considering how much money she and her staff are taking from Vandy....

I am also not a huge fan of the WNBA as it is only 12 teams so the talent should be spread out pretty evenly but it isn't. Winning a title as a coach in the WNBA to me is "meh". So while you mention Brondello, I don't recall her being a great player in the Swoopes, Catchings, Cooper, Thompson, Staley or Mulkey mold. Winning a title is always nice but come on, they play 34 games and have 8 teams make the playoffs, have 2 single round elimination games then in the semi's play a best of 5. For a league 20+ years in existence, kid of sad so it's not like WCBB with 349 schools and 65 P5 schools who are vying for a NCAA titles.

I appreciate the input as I did have to re-assert my logic for clarity but your "great players/great coaches" list is not convincing.

 

[DefenseBB]

Should I assume that UVA has those same strict academic standards for WBB athletes as Stanford etc....?

No, do not assume that. Stanford has been very consistent across all their sports vs. their general admissions. Virginia has not been as strict in their sports. Coaches are given significantly more input to admissions at Virginia than Stanford. The students still have to very good though a few "Huh, really, that person got in to Virginia" occasionally pops up for me. I mostly follow Virginia's other sports like Swimming, Baseball, Soccer and Lacrosse. Obviously what ever they are doing for Football isn't working! Tony Bennett seems to be very good at his program and has a very strong standard going.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Great players don't always make great coaches, witness the NBA for multiple examples. A head coach is as much a CEO for a major program as just X/Os and recruiting. Some are up for the job and some aren't. Staley has navigated the waters quite well as she took a bottom feeder SEC team and made them a powerhouse with the right support from the AD.

To be fair we now have a new era of women's basketball superstars that wasn't seen before. Some great players from the 80s and early 90s may have been successful staff members at schools but with the drastic increase in exposure of not only players but the college game itself, I will be curious to see how many schools start going for the "flashy hire" of choosing a known name like Whalen or Thompson. The UT board has repeatedly said Catchings or Lawson should replace Holly and neither has even been an assistant.

However, how impressive is it to be able to send a Bird, Catchings, or Whalen type player into a top kids' living room or campus visit for a sales pitch? I suspect the game will see more of it.

 

[Dillon77]

Ah @Dillon77 my dear ND colleague I appreciate the chuckle "you've got to think (hope) that Clemson will be pushing hard with a new coach" lest we forget that coach is Amanda Butler and when was the last time she nabbed a top recruiting class?

The one caveat I want to caution everyone on here is the track record or more specifically, the lack of track records of any great player making a great coach. Most recently was Sheryl Swoopes who crashed and burned. Of all the top coaches out there right now, Kim Mulkey is probably best player and successful coach combo in WCBB with Dawn Staley second (ironically a Virginia alum) and then a distant third is maybe Holly Warlick...Other than that, I can't think of any top-notch players who have made the successful transition (hence all my sneers at my fellow BYers who think DT or Sue Bird should come in sight unseen and replace Geno). The game usually comes organically (easily) for the great players that when trying to teach or coach, they get frustrated or miss the subtle points less skilled players need to understand.

Normally, I would be shocked that a top program is giving it's reins to an unproven entity but given the sad state of affairs at UVa and what lack of success a "proven winner" in Joanne Boyle had as pedigree prior to UVa, I sort of understand why-what do they have to lose? If Tina was the reason all these bigs went to Texas and she can convince others to come to Virginia, the real and only question is her game x's and o's-something she better know how to do as clearly Karen Aston was "game coach challenged". Time will tell.

Hah...more on the Clemson/Butler comment later.

The main point, as you undoubtedly know, is that I think TT is not going going to arrive in Charlottesville and instantly revert to peak Debbie Ryan-years. The I-95 corridor is heavily mined my many teams and the Va.-Carolinas-Georgia area is being heavily mind and scouted by some pretty astute coaches. So Tina -- and whatever assistants she hires -- are going to have to do some pretty tough fieldwork To twist a Neil Young line" "...there may be a field of opportunity, but you've got some serious plowing time ahead."

As for Amanda Butler, I've already shared my general agreement that the Clemson AD T-Rexed his research on this one, which is why the "think (hope)" were juxtaposed. However, I'll see if Ms. Butler has learned from her past gig and will be working AAU and High School gyms a bit more effectively.

Like you, I've been a bit surprised at what -- or more to the point, isn't -- happening at Vanderbilt, particularly with Ms Overbeck's transfer to Southern Cal I thought Overbeck might work well with the BC transfer center Mariella Fassoula.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I am also not a huge fan of the WNBA as it is only 12 teams so the talent should be spread out pretty evenly but it isn't.

The NBA has 30 teams; is the talent spread out evenly?

Winning a title as a coach in the WNBA to me is "meh". So while you mention Brondello, I don't recall her being a great player in the Swoopes, Catchings, Cooper, Thompson, Staley or Mulkey mold.

@DefenseBB , I have to vehemently, but respectfully, disagree with you here.

First, Sandy Brondello was a member of the Opals (the Australian National Team) for 18 years, playing in four Olympic Games and four World Championships. She won two silver medals as a member of the Opals (2000, 2004), plus a bronze medal (1996), at the Olympics, plus two bronze medals (1998, 2002) at the World Championships. She played a total of 302 games for her country in international competition.

Brondello also made the 1999 All Star Team in the WNBA. But she also played for 10 seasons in the WNBL in Australia, wining league MVP in 1995.

More importantly, Sandy Brondello is a LEGEND in Australia. She and Michele Timms are credited as the "foremothers" of Australia's rise to prominence in international basketball. She was part of the team that claimed Australia's first-ever medal in Olympic basketball. Without Brondello and Timms, there is no Lauren Jackson or Penny Taylor (and this comment came straight from the mouth of both Lauren Jackson and Penny Taylor).

Brondello is beloved in Australia, so much so that she was just named the head coach of the Australian National Team last year and already led the Opals to qualify for the 2018 World Cup (formerly World Championships) by winning a silver medal at the FIBA Women's Asia Cup (which Australia had not done in recent years).

Winning a title is always nice but come on, they play 34 games and have 8 teams make the playoffs, have 2 single round elimination games then in the semi's play a best of 5. For a league 20+ years in existence, kid of sad so it's not like WCBB with 349 schools and 65 P5 schools who are vying for a NCAA titles.

Having so many teams that make the playoffs is also an example of the dilution of the pool. But even in the women's NCAA Tournament, it is single elimination. Does that make it "sad?"

Having single-elimination games in the WNBA playoffs also makes it more exciting, as teams have to "bring it" every game. In baseball, the wild card game is single elimination. Is that considered "sad?"

Having more teams qualifying for the playoffs do not make the playoffs more special, if the talent pool is not all that good. Furthermore, 8 teams make the WNBA playoffs out of 12 - already at 66.7 percent. What would be the point of having more teams make the playoffs?

Finally, having 12 WNBA franchises that are settled and that mostly have independent owners (only Phoenix, Minnesota, Indiana, and New York have NBA owners). Yes, the league is 20 years old, but in this sports marketplace, having stability is more important than having more teams. Look at how long it took MLS to successfully expand. And the WNBA learned the lesson of expanding too quickly.

Furthermore, the WNBA has done something brilliant -- finding franchise owners among casino ownership groups, in the CT Sun and Las Vegas Aces. The arenas are already built into the facilities, including accommodations, food, etc. There is not facility rental fee, and the costs associated with the franchises are significantly lower. That is the type of creativity that will help the WNBA in the long run.

 

[bbsamjj]

I appreciate the input as I did have to re-assert my logic for clarity but your "great players/great coaches" list is not convincing.

Well I didn't see my post as a rebuttal to yours, more of an extension of the conversation--in fact, I basically agree with you about players becoming coaches. Nor was I asserting that any of the players I listed were "great" coaches--in fact, I openly pointed out many of their struggles--just wanted to provide more examples.

That being said, I would suggest giving the WNBA more of a chance. It is HARD to win a WNBA championship (DT--arguably the league's greatest player, has won 3 in 13 years; Lisa Leslie only won 2) and while coaching a college team is very different than coaching a pro team, the talent is so compacted that you win games on the margins.

 

[DefenseBB]

Hah...more on the Clemson/Butler comment later.

The main point, as you undoubtedly know, is that I think TT is not going going to arrive in Charlottesville and instantly revert to peak Debbie Ryan-years. The I-95 corridor is heavily mined my many teams and the Va.-Carolinas-Georgia area is being heavily mind and scouted by some pretty astute coaches. So Tina -- and whatever assistants she hires -- are going to have to do some pretty tough fieldwork To twist a Neil Young line" "...there may be a field of opportunity, but you've got some serious plowing time ahead."

Mine was more the joke that you actually referenced Clemson as being a threat to Virginia recruiting (though actually it was statement of fact not really a joke per se'). I have highlighted and italicized above as I would ask you and others who lament about Virginia "getting back" to their glory days to understand their last one was 1999-2000 the year they won their last ACC Conference title. Since then, blah....so even Debbie Ryan was given quite a few years of downright pedestrian results before hanging it up and at that point was Virginia still a desired spot for recruits to go? I would argue the damage was already done. Virginia is not Tennessee with 8 titles and loads of All-Americans and All-SEC players. I am hard pressed to name even someone else besides Dawn that I know was a star at Virginia. Reviewing Ms. Ryan's record reminds me of another ACC coach who is well past their prime and is essentially just running time of the clock while Nero fiddles. This reminds me, perhaps Muffet should decide to go out on top and retire this year. It's a feel good story...

You bring up an interesting point on the locale aspect of recruiting. I personally don't think any P5 program worth their salt and wants to regularly vie for Sweet 16 and beyond needs to recruit their backyard unless they're in Texas (which is a very big back yard). All others need to recruit nationally. I mean, this isn't football with 85 scholarships or Baseball/Softball with 25 roster spots that you need to recruit your backyard for depth. This is basketball with 3 spots (at most) per year to get you to your 12 person roster. If you are requiring these to come from your backyard, you are probably in trouble. Again, the elite prospects in anyone's backyard will still go to the elite programs.

Does Virginia still have cache' to become elite?

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Fairfield (et al):
As an ND fan, I spend a fair amount of time observing other ACC teams and agree with all your points. However, Tina and the Cavaliers not only have to challenge traditional rivals for that talent pool, but up and coming programs like North Carolina State (led by Wes Moore) and Virginia Tech (led by Kenny Brooks). And you've got to think (hope) that Clemson will be pushing hard with a new coach.
And then there are the SEC teams that also reach into that neck of the country.

That's why Charlie's post of her first offer -- in Milwaukee! -- makes sense, as well. Going to have find talent regionally, but also elsewhere. Luckily, UVA has that kind of academic and overall reputation. And you've got to think, Tina will rely on her Texas connections, as well as her fellow WNBA alums for tips.

Should be an interesting ....

Just think that in terms of cache, NC State is and always will be second-tier. They might find some good players. But in terms of wanting to go to a top-tier school, Virginia has it all over NC State. And Clemson for that matter.

Virginia is a top name academically, and also competes within the ACC. So I think that for a very bright kid who wants both a great program, which Tina Thompson could provide, and a great school, which Virginia has been for a quarter millennium, there isn't much competition. It's UVA versus Duke versus UNC.

Of course, there are the powerhouse SEC programs. But Tennessee is down for the count. And do great talents really want to wallow in South Carolina? Virginia is near Washington, D.C., which should be a plus in a number of ways.

Just think that Connecticut could be impacted by a Tina Thompson program at Virginia. But also other programs- Tennessee, South Carolina, Duke, UNC.

But we'll have to see. Being a great player doesn't mean one becomes a great head coach.

 

[Dillon77]

Just think that in terms of cache, NC State is and always will be second-tier. They might find some good players. But in terms of wanting to go to a top-tier school, Virginia has it all over NC State. And Clemson for that matter.

Virginia is a top name academically, and also competes within the ACC. So I think that for a very bright kid who wants both a great program, which Tina Thompson could provide, and a great school, which Virginia has been for a quarter millennium, there isn't much competition. It's UVA versus Duke versus UNC.

Of course, there are the powerhouse SEC programs. But Tennessee is down for the count. And do great talents really want to wallow in South Carolina? Virginia is near Washington, D.C., which should be a plus in a number of ways.

Just think that Connecticut could be impacted by a Tina Thompson program at Virginia. But also other programs- Tennessee, South Carolina, Duke, UNC.

But we'll have to see. Being a great player doesn't mean one becomes a great head coach.

Fairfield...your points on academic reputation and cache certainly are ones that resonate in guidance offices of high schools on that I-95 corridor from Boston to Richmond.

However, part of the future focus of the prospective student-athletes that ACC Coaches are after is the basketball program and that's what I was referring to in my note. And that's why I focused on Wes Moore of NC State and Kenny Brooks of Va. Tech., who have made excellent strides in performance and are starting to yield better recruits. For instance, I fully expect Dara Mabrey to do well under Brook's guidance for the Hokies.

And the drawn-out ending of the Sylvia Hatchell era is pulling the Tarheels back into the middle of the pack.

So, my thought is a less-than-top-notch basketball program can also hinder attempts to bring in the types of students that both you and I are referencing. Will Tina Thompson be able to up the ante? Time will tell.

BTW, many different universities can have majors that are draws to different types of interests. I know many friends from Virginia who have kids at Va. Tech to get engineering degrees and two of my best friends studied landscape architecture at NC State. We've got lots of colleges in this country where you can learn and make a mark (says the father of four, whose last is just graduating from college this May! )

 

[triaddukefan]

Interview with the new coach

 

[WLT1717]

Should I assume that UVA has those same strict academic standards for WBB athletes as Stanford etc....?

No.

 

[DefenseBB]

Personally, I am rooting for Tina Thompson as I really like the University of Virginia on so many levels and usually root for all their sports programs. That said, Cavalier WCBB has not been relevant for many years (like 18!) and again, they never one a NC title with their sole claim being they lost in OT to Tenn in 1991. They made 3 consecutive Final Fours during that time and that was it. They have 4 Elite 8 appearances with the last being 1996 an astounding 22 years ago. I think this board is overzealous on UVa due to Geno's time there and the fact Dawn Staley was the leader of the team that made the 3 Final Fours. Other than that, time has passed this program by. The saving grace may be the talent locally could also be romanticizing on the "glory days" and the school is top notch. It would be a nice story to see ND, UVa and Duke control the top of the ACC WCBB landscape for me as all 3 are great academic institutions and I want to see young women get education opportunities to become leaders in whatever fields they choose as it most certainly will not be pro-basketball given the limited number of spots and the lower earnings those jobs offer.

I am confused by @Fairfield Fan due to the mention of Duke vs. UVa vs. UNC and then the segue to Tenn and SC. Under no circumstance could I link those comparisons-Academically, it's a mismatch and in terms of Basketball, despite Holly's coaching deficiency, the Tennessee aura still attracts significantly better talent than Duke or UNC and as SC has Won 4 SEC titles and an NC recently, on the Hoops front, it's not close. Will that change? Duke lost Lexi and Rebecca, UNC still has Hatchell and while Dawn lost A'ja I still think they have very good talent to be top 3 in the SEC next year. So if you are projecting, I don't know on what basis.

 

[bbsamjj]

Tina Thompson won't have to start from scratch. UVA returns 3 of its top 5 scorers from a team that made the NCAA second round. Their recruiting could use a lift though, and I would think she would help that.

 

[skilz]

Would love to see Tina pull a few girls from Texas with her, mainly Holmes. Texas should spread the wealth!

 

[Coler]

UVA just earned a fan. Tina is my all time favorite wnba player.