Three Takeaways – St. Joe's edition

[Towney007]

I guess the three things I noticed:

-The Ollie kids aren't going to get better and probably weren't ever going to get that much better because they're not good basketball players. I mean how many more college basketball games do people need to see to the point where asking anyone to 'develop' them becomes fruitless? It's the same thing every game - slow start, dig a huge hole, go on a run that gives you just enough hope to think there's some talent there and then fold up like a deck of cards down the stretch making all the same stupid decisions they made earlier in the game. The faster we can cycle in the freshmen - the better.

-Hurley's gotta find some creativity. You can't let Vital and Gilbert go out and do what they did tonight. Rotate Gaffney in, rotate Adams in - rotate anyone in. There's no way it could possibly be worse than what we saw tonight. SO why not try it? And defensively I mean... they ran the same spread the floor, drive to the lane for an easy bucket play 25 times before we made an adjustment. When we found success pressing, he then inexplicably took it off and wham-o - right back to a double digit lead. All this from a team with a walk on who was shredding us and a bunch of guys who were 6'4. Speaking of which, someone tell Josh Carlton he's enormous. He clearly hasn't figured that out yet. I'm not down on Hurley or anything, but he was a steaming pile tonight.

-I don't know if this team is PTSD or what the deal is - but the lack of aggression on the boards and general knowledge that they're bigger, longer and faster than most of their opposition seems to be totally lacking with these guys. It's like they can drop it into a gear most teams can't but just refuse to - for whatever reason. it's a total mental thing. I don't expect Hurley to be able to develop bad basketball players - and the mental stuff is part of the reason they're bad - but there's gotta be some trigger somewhere. Their inability to come out right off the gate, the playing scared and with no confidence... it's just bizarre. I've never really seen anything like it...

Anyway - it's one night. It's game2 of year 2 and this is gonna be a 3-4 year thing. Far from the end of the world, but absolutely an unacceptable performance and frustrating. On to Florida.

 

[KodiacKemba]

The younger teammates will be better than him and take us to a postseason. I know that for a fact and you heard it from me.
His upperclassmen peers aren’t very talented either. Carlton and Polley have some potential but they are soft minded

Hey i love uconn so I hope these Hurley recruits take us to the promise land like u say man , but then again they have to beat out vital and Gilbert and we all know how Hurley likes to ride the upperclassmen so I’m very optimistic.... but I need to see them play a game first lol

 

[ClifSpliffy]

'little al' is short. mr 'stop touching me' prolly is allergic to boards. of these 3 starters, at least cv does stick his nose, which is bent far too often, in the mix. he has to, since he's doing all the rebounding for starters at the 1,2, and 3 spots. other than that, the rest of the gang looks like fun. im optimistic. I have belief that january dawgs won't look like this 'no d, no a' version.

 

[Shine33]

I apologize for being so harsh on vital and Gilbert my guys. I want what everyone else here wants and I just speak my mind. Our rise will be with the young guys not the guys that Ollie recruited unfortunately

 

[Bonk]

rebounding is a mindset not a product of size and strength (although it helps). Don't see that mindset in a lot of these guys.
That being said, I'm not blaming the kids as much as some of you are. A lot falls on Hurley here. You can't credit Hurley for wins and blame the kids for losses. It isn't fair.

 

[Shine33]

-The Ollie kids aren't going to get better and probably weren't ever going to get that much better because they're not good basketball players. I mean how many more college basketball games do people need to see to the point where asking anyone to 'develop' them becomes fruitless? It's the same thing every game - slow start, dig a huge hole, go on a run that gives you just enough hope to think there's some talent there

Exactly this

 

[KingAG]

We can still win 18-22 games this year. We can’t let tonight ruin a whole season. We have a lot of games in front of us to make this one up. We have Bouk coming back. And two really exciting recruits so far for next year. Make tonight an outlier this season. Make this game up against Florida. Go Huskies!

 

[kansashusky]

Vital’s game is perfectly designed for losing teams.

He’s been here four years. He’s not fighting through a bad night, he’s a sixth or seventh man playing hero minutes for a bad team.

Twenty-one shots, two assists.

Who else can score though? Alterique is a midget, Tyler gets his feelings hurt if you look at him wrong, Josh has the toughness of a teletubby, a broomstick is stronger than Akok.

I agree Christian isn’t exactly our ideal situation, but We score 50 a night without him.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Year two of a rebuild.

 

[buddy]

I think you guys are too hard on CV. It seems sometimes like he is the only one interested.

 

[Towney007]

rebounding is a mindset not a product of size and strength (although it helps). Don't see that mindset in a lot of these guys.
That being said, I'm not blaming the kids as much as some of you are. A lot falls on Hurley here. You can't credit Hurley for wins and blame the kids for losses. It isn't fair.

To be fair - you can't blame either, really.

So far as the players are concerned - they're not good. I don't know what people expect Hurley to be able to do with them. His first recruiting class has been here for two games.

Hurley probably takes more of the blame here in terms of some things he could have done or not done to steal a win. But at the end of the day, you also have what you have.

It's just part of rebuilding. People are going to have to stop being babies about it and let it play out. You're not getting a Duke level reload here.

 

[intlzncster]

I guess the three things I noticed:

-The Ollie kids aren't going to get better and probably weren't ever going to get that much better because they're not good basketball players. I mean how many more college basketball games do people need to see to the point where asking anyone to 'develop' them becomes fruitless? It's the same thing every game - slow start, dig a huge hole, go on a run that gives you just enough hope to think there's some talent there and then fold up like a deck of cards down the stretch making all the same stupid decisions they made earlier in the game. The faster we can cycle in the freshmen - the better.

-Hurley's gotta find some creativity. You can't let Vital and Gilbert go out and do what they did tonight. Rotate Gaffney in, rotate Adams in - rotate anyone in. There's no way it could possibly be worse than what we saw tonight. SO why not try it? And defensively I mean... they ran the same spread the floor, drive to the lane for an easy bucket play 25 times before we made an adjustment. When we found success pressing, he then inexplicably took it off and wham-o - right back to a double digit lead. All this from a team with a walk on who was shredding us and a bunch of guys who were 6'4. Speaking of which, someone tell Josh Carlton he's enormous. He clearly hasn't figured that out yet. I'm not down on Hurley or anything, but he was a steaming pile tonight.

-I don't know if this team is PTSD or what the deal is - but the lack of aggression on the boards and general knowledge that they're bigger, longer and faster than most of their opposition seems to be totally lacking with these guys. It's like they can drop it into a gear most teams can't but just refuse to - for whatever reason. it's a total mental thing. I don't expect Hurley to be able to develop bad basketball players - and the mental stuff is part of the reason they're bad - but there's gotta be some trigger somewhere. Their inability to come out right off the gate, the playing scared and with no confidence... it's just bizarre. I've never really seen anything like it...

Anyway - it's one night. It's game2 of year 2 and this is gonna be a 3-4 year thing. Far from the end of the world, but absolutely an unacceptable performance and frustrating. On to Florida.

Whelp, that sums up my feelings exactly.

 

[Husky1972]

• A hoist up the first shot that shows, no need to look for better options Offense
• Chase after 'em but don't get in their way Defense
• "OK it's yours" Rebounding
• A coach who appears OK with it all (remember the old days with timeouts @ 19:30 of the 1st half? The "Hook"?)

The above isn't about talent or lack of it. It's about competing with energy, effort, discipline, and teamwork. None of which were on display for a significant amount of time this evening.

Really disappointed.

 

[metsfan2323]

On the bright side this Akok kid looks like the type of player you build a championship team around.

 

[bmayuc]

Yeah, how the heck does that happen? Crazy.

Not a secret.

1. Our two guards are an undersized pg who has never been able to finish near the rim and a good shooter who has limited dribbling/driving ability. Two guys who can't get to the rack

2. Our best big man had a D- game and missed a bunch of bunnies he usually makes

3. Our other big men are finesse players with limited to no down low game. Polley is a spot up shooter, Sid literally has no niche offensively and typically just gets the ball at the elbow, takes a dribble and a random jump stop, and then wildly chucks the ball toward the rim. I swear to god, that's like 60% of his shots in his career. And Akok is basically teh same as polley. Spot up finesse big.

So, that's all of our players, and not a single even average finisher in the paint, outside of Carlton, who had the worst game of all players on our team today and was completely inneffective.

so, thats how 8-34 happens.

 

[bmayuc]

Vital’s game is perfectly designed for losing teams.

He’s been here four years. He’s not fighting through a bad night, he’s a sixth or seventh man playing hero minutes for a bad team.

Twenty-one shots, two assists.

This is wrong. His game is fine, as you said - Vitals game is designed perfectly for a winning team... as a 6th or 7th man off the bench who's role is to expend max effort playing gritty defense and hitting open 3s for 15-20 minutes per game

The problem is that he has, by personality and organizational failure, been forced into a role as a lead scorer and secondary playmaker for 30-35 minutes per game that is wayyyyy outside his skill level. I mean, until the pups can take those minutes and that role, what are we gonna do?

 

[ctchamps]

I’m glad we scored more than 35. There was a long stretch in the first half I thought it wasn’t going to happen.

 

[navery12]

Please god tell me this is sarcasm

To be clear I meant it's time for gtcam to move on and accept KO is not our coach

 

[ConnEd]

- Polley was pretty much non existent except for those two threes late. Dude still refuses to rebound. Had a big box out lapse late that resulted in st joes bucket

I'm not defending Polley's play, but I think you're referring to the play where the St. Joe's guard (Moore) got an offensive rebound late in the game. It was actually AG that blew that box out. He let Moore get behind him along the baseline while he was staring at the ball then got bodied all the way out of the lane as the ball went up. Moore got the rebound in front of Polley - who ought to be able to get a rebound over a 6'3" guard. I think Polley then fouled him.

 

[bmayuc]

This box score is... remarkable.

1. How does Polley, who looks to be almost 6'10, only have 2 rebounds in almost 30 minutes? I truly cannot understand his inability to just happen to be in the right place 4-6 times per night by chance. It seems almost statistically impossible, particularly when 6'2 Christian Vital is pulling 16.

2. 87 points, 7 assists, 13 turnovers. I just can't. Its the mark of an atrocious offensive night.

3. We have efficient secondary scorers, but no primary creators. Carlton, Akok, Polley - these guys know their shots, and can put them in. We just can't get the ball to them in those spots efficiently, because Gilbert is not a PG and Vital SHOULD BE in teh same group with the aforementioned as a secondary scorer/shooter, but is forced into a creator role, which is just a shame.

4. Gaffney's amazing nearly blank season box score. In game 1, Gaffney played 9 minutes, missed a shot, and committed 2 fouls. No points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, or turnovers. In this game, Gaffney played 8 minutes, and had a single assist and 2 fouls. This mean in 2 games, he has the following box score

Minutes - 17
FG... 0-1
Points... 0
Assists... 1
Rebounds... 0
Steals... 0
Blocks... 0
Turnovers... 0
Fouls... 4

He has almost played a half a game with a single assist to show for his time on the floor. He's definitely on Trillion watch for each game he gets in this year - Basketbawful

Sadly, Gaffney has looked completely lost to date. He just sort of drifts around on the court, with a deer in headlight look, runs to spots, tosses the ball around the perimeter barely glancing at the rim or trying to attack the defense. Its weird.

 

[husky429]

Not a secret.

1. Our two guards are an undersized pg who has never been able to finish near the rim and a good shooter who has limited dribbling/driving ability. Two guys who can't get to the rack

2. Our best big man had a D- game and missed a bunch of bunnies he usually makes

3. Our other big men are finesse players with limited to no down low game. Polley is a spot up shooter, Sid literally has no niche offensively and typically just gets the ball at the elbow, takes a dribble and a random jump stop, and then wildly chucks the ball toward the rim. I swear to god, that's like 60% of his shots in his career. And Akok is basically teh same as polley. Spot up finesse big.

So, that's all of our players, and not a single even average finisher in the paint, outside of Carlton, who had the worst game of all players on our team today and was completely inneffective.

so, thats how 8-34 happens.

Your take on Akok is way off.

Akok is skinny, but he has 3x the potential Polley has. He battled for rebounds tonight in a way Polley has yet to show in 2 years.

"Finesse" isn't a bad thing if you back it up with some explosiveness. Akok is small now but working at it constantly. His talent level is noticeably better than the rest of our frontcourt. He's just working on consistency and strength.

 

[bmayuc]

Your take on Akok is way off.

Akok is skinny, but he has 3x the potential Polley has. He battled for rebounds tonight in a way Polley has yet to show in 2 years.

"Finesse" isn't a bad thing if you back it up with some explosiveness. Akok is small now but working at it constantly. His talent level is noticeably better than the rest of our frontcourt. He's just working on consistency and strength.

uh, the post was about why we shot 8-34 from 2 point shots. And in the context of where they get there shots, the are both spot up shooters who occassionally barrel into the lane with low scoring probability.

Nothing more.

 

[AdamaNation]

Vital’s game is perfectly designed for losing teams.

He’s been here four years. He’s not fighting through a bad night, he’s a sixth or seventh man playing hero minutes for a bad team.

Twenty-one shots, two assists.

Not saying he’s nba bound. But srs find other ways to contribute. Yes d Beverly is probably better.

 

[AdamaNation]

I think this is a perfect summation of Christian Vital. Whenever he does something good, he does three things bad. He will go down as the greatest stat accumulator in modern UConn history. And nothing more.

Earl Kelley. Loved him. But could win either. Similar careers.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

4. Gaffney's amazing nearly blank season box score. In game 1, Gaffney played 9 minutes, missed a shot, and committed 2 fouls. No points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, or turnovers. In this game, Gaffney played 8 minutes, and had a single assist and 2 fouls. This mean in 2 games, he has the following box score

Minutes - 17
FG... 0-1
Points... 0
Assists... 1
Rebounds... 0
Steals... 0
Blocks... 0
Turnovers... 0
Fouls... 4

He has almost played a half a game with a single assist to show for his time on the floor. He's definitely on Trillion watch for each game he gets in this year - Basketbawful

Sadly, Gaffney has looked completely lost to date. He just sort of drifts around on the court, with a deer in headlight look, runs to spots, tosses the ball around the perimeter barely glancing at the rim or trying to attack the defense. Its weird.

View attachment 48078

Two games into Gaffney's career, you sure got the early line on him. Think it'll hold up?

This is what happens when you can't resist posting a #4 in a Three Takeaways thread.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Our senior backcourt is not one second smarter than they were four years ago.

Those were the worst 26 and 22 point performances that I can remember.

They’re not good players right now and they haven’t been good players - there is a reason why they’ve been present for some of the worst losses this program has ever had. Get better or take a seat.

Well we can sit them because no one is better. Adams and Wilson had good games against SHU, woopity-doo, but they had like 5 points between them tonight. Maybe once the upperclassmen are out things will change, but the whole talk the offseason was how Vital was buying in to everything Hurley was preaching.

Oh well, on to the next one.

 

[KodiacKemba]

Well we can sit them because no one is better. Adams and Wilson had good games against SHU, woopity-doo, but they had like 5 points between them tonight. Maybe once the upperclassmen are out things will change, but the whole talk the offseason was how Vital was buying in to everything Hurley was preaching.

Oh well, on to the next one.

Adams couldn’t stay on the floor with fouls which is ridiculous against a spread team like st joes , he took 2 shots and made 1 in 11 mins court time .... so although his aggressive approach to the game cause him to miss most of the game it doesn’t compare to Sidney ( I hope he don’t clank these free throws Wilson ) ... but what is sid excuse my lord 0-4 in 22 mins , he’s on the court doing a whole bunch of nothing he should have 6 boards a game easily with some blocks and steals ... he can’t be on the court in my mind producing like that smh

 

[HuskyHawk]

Even though vital had a horrible shooting game, he still stayed in attack mode getting to the line 14 times and grabbing boards 15 of them with some steals n block

Gilbert was bad all around now his stat line might be misleading but I didn’t see one floater from him , he just kept penetrating, trying to lay the ball up amongst the bigs with zero success , turning the ball over countless times 5 and just didn’t trust his teammates 2 assists really , hero ball is not going to cut it with this team ... Polley got hot second half and when the lead was cut to 4 or 5 we had two or three consecutive possessions where we didn’t even get him a touch then boom lead back to 10 game over

His attack mode is a major part of the problem. It’s selfish basketball. He also overcommits on D all the time. Yes, he gets steals, and he also gets burned over and over. I’ve said it before, if he’s stuffing the stat sheet we are a bad team.

Everybody but Akok was bad yesterday. But Vital and Gilbert were the worst. They are the guys who need to set the tone and get others involved. Our off the ball movement is terrible. We stand like statues and are so easy to defend as a result.

 

[freescooter]

Story of this game and 5he main take away is talent. Or rather how little talent we have. Probably not a single guy who would see the floor on our Top teams. We are what we are in terms of talent. A mid level mid-mid major

 

[bmayuc]

Two games into Gaffney's career, you sure got the early line on him. Think it'll hold up?

This is what happens when you can't resist posting a #4 in a Three Takeaways thread.

1. I think its a fair obvservation that it is bizarre that in 17 minutes of play he has not put up a single unit of production outside a single assist! That is unusual and worthy of note. It's hard to do!

2. Do you disagree with my assessment that he looks lost and uncomfortable on the court to date?

3. ...

4.