This team has gotten worse

[3rdbass]

Here's how I rank the players from the two teams over the course of the season.

Watson
Duke
Martin
Whaley
Sanogo
Cole
Gaffney
Jackson
Horchler
Polley
Reeves
Adams
Carlton
Breed
Gantt
Crosswell
Goodine
Monroe

Bynum and Nichols would go somewhere in the cluster of our guys. But this version of the Providence team we played tonight is really bad. Duke (outside of a couple minute stretch) wasn't even very good. They are mediocre AAC team bad. Tulsa level.

Any list that has Adams higher than Carlton is laughable. Adams is just awful.

 

[Sea Goat]

God we stink! The $3mm man, Hurley, ain't getting it done!

 

[tzznandrew]

Here's how I rank the players from the two teams over the course of the season.

Watson
Duke
Martin
Whaley
Sanogo
Cole
Gaffney
Jackson
Horchler
Polley
Reeves
Adams
Carlton
Breed <--- This guy started and played 33 minutes for Providence tonight
Gantt
Crosswell
Goodine
Monroe

Bynum and Nichols would go somewhere in the cluster of our guys. But this version of the Providence team we played tonight is really bad. Duke (outside of a couple minute stretch) wasn't even very good. They are mediocre AAC team bad. Tulsa level. This is not "You guys are complaining about losing to a good Big East team" reaction. This is we're in year 3 of Hurley with tournament aspirations and we lost to Tulsa.

If you have the two best players by a wide gap—and let's be clear, much as I like Martin, the gap between him and Watson and Duke is pretty wide—I just don't know how many times you're going to win given you can only play 5 players at a time. I'd put Reeves a bit higher—definitely than Polley, and I'd say the difference between Martin and Reeves is probably equivalent to the difference between Watson and Martin. So...this isn't cross country.

You give me the two best players, and three players who are worse than your best five...but pretty good, can play their role, I'm going to beat you pretty much every game no matter how good a coach you are.

 

[SportsFan88]

For people that’s saying Hurley is on the hot seat.. do y’all realize where our program was at 4 years ago? The fact that we lost arguably our most talented big in akok, one of the best players in the country in bouk, and our top incoming recruit for a stretch in Dre Jackson and that we have been competitive in most of the games we have played without those players I mentioned above is a testament in itself and speaks volumes, I love the yard but some of y’all takes after games ESPECIALLY losses really are mind blowing

 

[auror]

If you have the two best players by a wide gap—and let's be clear, much as I like Martin, the gap between him and Watson and Duke is pretty wide—I just don't know how many times you're going to win given you can only play 5 players at a time. I'd put Reeves a bit higher—definitely than Polley, and I'd say the difference between Martin and Reeves is probably equivalent to the difference between Watson and Martin. So...this isn't cross country.

You give me the two best players, and three players who are worse than your best five...but pretty good, can play their role, I'm going to beat you pretty much every game no matter how good a coach you are.

You're just wrong about this for college basketball. Having the best guy (or two) is not as devastating as it is in the NBA if your teammates are crap. See: Simmons, Ben, Young, Trae, and Fultz, Markelle. Especially if they can't fundamentally take over the game. Neither Duke or Watson are that good. They're not All American level. Watson needs to be fed (only took 2 shots in the 1st half) and we killed him personally on the glass and Duke can't score inside the perimeter very well (he was inefficient tonight, 91 ORTG).. How did we do when Jalen Adams was the best player on the court for both teams?

The baseline for quality in the NBA is fairly high. So there's not going to be that big a gap between mediocre teammates and bad teammates. But the best players in the NBA are unfreakingbelievably good. Much better than the best players in college relative to average. But between decent college players and bad college players is a biiiig gap. The Breed guy that started for them tonight as a freshman and played 33 minutes would never even be considered for recruitment at UConn. We wouldn't even look at him. And they had 4 guys who played tonight who are worse than him. Their "next 3" after Watson and Duke are not pretty good! That's my point! It's a shooter who can't shoot, a mid major transfer who they benched earlier in the year but had to go back to him when the guy who replaced him got hurt, and a 300+ freshman recruit.

And we lost to them by double digits! This is just flat unacceptable.

 

[tzznandrew]

You're just wrong about this for college basketball. Having the best guy (or two) is not as devastating as it is in the NBA if your teammates are crap. See: Simmons, Ben, Young, Trae, and Fultz, Markelle. Especially if they can't fundamentally take over the game. Neither Duke or Watson are that good. They're not All American level. Watson needs to be fed (only took 2 shots in the 1st half) and we killed him personally on the glass and Duke can't score inside the perimeter very well (he was inefficient tonight, 91 ORTG)..

The baseline for quality in the NBA is fairly high. So there's not going to be that big a gap between mediocre teammates and bad teammates. And the best players in the NBA are unfreakingbelievably good. Much better than the best players in college. But between decent college players and bad college players is a biiiig gap. The Breed guy that started for them tonight as a freshman and played 33 minutes would never even be considered for recruitment at UConn. We wouldn't even look at him. And they had 4 guys who played tonight who are worse than him. Their "next 3" after Watson and Duke are not pretty good! That's my point! It's a shooter who can't shoot, a mid major transfer, and a 300+ freshman recruit.

And we lost to them by double digits! This is just flat unacceptable.

Current UConn: is Polley or Adams or Josh Carlton a recruit? Whaley?

So much of our talent has not had consistent practice time together because of injuries or COVID, and the best of it is young and injured. When you're playing a team who has the best two players and they're juniors and seniors, they're just going to win more times than not, I don't care if that's the NBA or at the Y or me coaching 7 year olds against you. You give me a guard and a big, and they're both better than anyone on your team, and I'm going to win most times no matter your game-planning.

You can have a system and all and that can mitigate that. But that system would require (a) practice and (b) cohesiveness of your players. Which of those has Hurley had?

 

[auror]

Current UConn: is Polley or Adams or Josh Carlton a recruit? Whaley?

On 247:
Tyler Polley - 168
Josh Carlton - 178
Brendan Adams - 178

Alyn Breed - 327

It's not even the same ballpark. We wouldn't have recruited Breed in the AAC with Ollie. And those guys are juniors and seniors and he is a freshman. And again, they had 4 guys in their rotation worse than him.

 

[tzznandrew]

On 247:
Tyler Polley recruit - 168
Josh Carlton recruit - 178
Brendan Adams recruit - 178

Alyn Breed - 327

It's not even the same ballpark.

I'd suggest the mistake you make is that recruiting rankings are particularly accurate outside of 75-125 or so. It's not some clear, linear progression that because someone is 327 they are going to be necessarily significantly worse than someone who is 178. Once you're outside of that rankings are sort of the wild-west. College basketball tends to be far more logarithmic in terms of talent

That's not to suggest than Breed is any good. But I don't find high school rankings particularly compelling outside of 125ish.

 

[uconngb]

You're just wrong about this for college basketball. Having the best guy (or two) is not as devastating as it is in the NBA if your teammates are crap. See: Simmons, Ben, Young, Trae, and Fultz, Markelle. Especially if they can't fundamentally take over the game. Neither Duke or Watson are that good. They're not All American level. Watson needs to be fed (only took 2 shots in the 1st half) and we killed him personally on the glass and Duke can't score inside the perimeter very well (he was inefficient tonight, 91 ORTG).. How did we do when Jalen Adams was the best player on the court for both teams?

The baseline for quality in the NBA is fairly high. So there's not going to be that big a gap between mediocre teammates and bad teammates. But the best players in the NBA are unfreakingbelievably good. Much better than the best players in college relative to average. But between decent college players and bad college players is a biiiig gap. The Breed guy that started for them tonight as a freshman and played 33 minutes would never even be considered for recruitment at UConn. We wouldn't even look at him. And they had 4 guys who played tonight who are worse than him. Their "next 3" after Watson and Duke are not pretty good! That's my point! It's a shooter who can't shoot, a mid major transfer who they benched earlier in the year but had to go back to him when the guy who replaced him got hurt, and a 300+ freshman recruit.

And we lost to them by double digits! This is just flat unacceptable.

Well said

 

[auror]

I'd suggest the mistake you make is that recruiting rankings are particularly accurate outside of 75-125 or so. It's not some clear, linear progression that because someone is 327 they are going to be necessarily significantly worse than someone who is 178. Once you're outside of that rankings are sort of the wild-west. College basketball tends to be far more logarithmic in terms of talent

That's not to suggest than Breed is any good. But I don't find high school rankings particularly compelling outside of 125ish.

I don't disagree, but It's an expected value. It's not linear, but there IS a big difference between top 150 (like Adams was in some rankings) or borderline such and 300+.

Offers will illustrate it. His best non-Providence offer was probably La Salle? Or maybe Hofstra?

Aside from us...
Polley had offers from LSU and USC.
Carlton had offers from Cincy, USC, Georgetown, and Maryland.
Adams had offers from Georgia, Minnesota, and Seton Hall.

He's not a rotation level Big East recruit. ESPECIALLY not as a freshman. This kid is just a guy. And it's not like he's a diamond in the rough that earned a spot in the lineup. He stinks, he's done nothing all year, he's only playing because of an injury and them having no one else. And their bench stinks even more. And we let them outplay us.

 

[SportsFan88]

The idea you're okay with us scoring 59 points and think we aren't capable of beating Providence is a joke. They just gave up 92 points to St. John's their last game. They just ran a really weak press against us since the opening tip and Hurley never got them to adjust to it and attack it. Polley and Carlton are weak no doubt, Whaley is a good player. The rest of the team is all Hurley's recruits, if he can't be expected to win against Big East teams just because his star player is out we have major problems.

The BIg East is a very good conference but this is a weak year for the conference and Providence isn't good.

So you think Hurley should be on the “hot” seat?

 

[SportsFan88]

Man, if this is the Boneyard after a loss in the Big East, I can’t imagine what it’d look like after a loss in the AAC.

Man oh man ???

 

[uconngb]

I don't disagree, but It's an expected value. It's not linear, but there IS a big difference between top 150 (like Adams was in some rankings) or borderline such and 300+.

Offers will illustrate it. His best non-Providence offer was probably La Salle? Or maybe Hofstra?

Aside from us...
Polley had offers from LSU and USC.
Carlton had offers from Cincy, USC, Georgetown, and Maryland.
Adams had offers from Georgia, Minnesota, and Seton Hall.

He's not a rotation level Big East recruit. ESPECIALLY not as a freshman. This kid is just a guy. And it's not like he's a diamond in the rough. He stinks, he's done nothing all year. And their bench stinks. And we let them outplay us.

Don’t try being rational with this guy. He doesn’t know what “objective” means. He has his narrative and he’s sticking to it.

 

[tzznandrew]

Don’t try being rational with this guy. He doesn’t know what “objective” means. He has his narrative and he’s sticking to it.

You can disagree with me that the team that can have the two best players will win most times. I think you're wrong, and I've laid out why I think so. But I respect auror. He isn't sitting here pretending PC didn't have the two best players on the floor.

But you seem to think that, sans Bouknight, we have a player currently better than one of their best two players. By any objective measure, we don't. You've never countered that argument. Because it's false.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Who do you root for this year?

 

[freescooter]

We need to bring at least one outside shooter into every class. I don't care if he's just average or even below average at everything else. Give me 2 or 3 guys down the bench who will give you 5-10 minutes of 3's before they have to sit down and light up a smoke for the rest of the game.

I’ve been saying this since Shabaz was a senior