This is a dilly of a pickle

[whaler11]

Watching this team at this point is pretty painful. Personally I think I liked no offense better than no defense - at least the game took 3 hours instead of 4.

From an overall program standpoint - I hope this is the nadir. Teams are going to continue to roll up huge numbers against them (look away for UCF) - but maybe we get a dead cat bounce and the next few weeks show some improvement.

I don't know what the right answer is but I see the issues as this:

• With UConn's funding potentially being cut for the first time in a while the state this program is in is going to give some people a lot of ammunition to make it go away
• The two people who give you the most confidence in the future of the program are probably short-timers
  
• They brought in Crocker to put his system in place knowing there would be massive growing pains (but probably not to this level)

Normally, I don't think it's a tough decision - you hired Crocker to put in this system - you have to give him some rope. The program has already lost everything but the diehards - the amount of time and winning it's going to take to get them back is so abstract I don't even worry about it anymore.

I give a little bit more credence this go around to the posters who want to ditch the 3-3-5 and move to something more traditional. The problems with this are obvious - changing your entire approach mid-stream is just asking for disaster. There aren't even enough practice hours to even accomplish it.

I don't think there is any chance it would work anyway - sure they might give up 55 instead of 70 to Memphis but they still aren't beating those teams. Would it help steal and extra win against Temple or Tulsa or Missouri - maybe I guess - but unless you bet over 3.5 wins does is there really a difference between 3 or 4 wins?

Based on Edsall's comments I don't think they are changing horses mid-stream so unless you've got a strong stomach or are a glutton for punishment, I'd probably check back in September 2018. No matter what scheme they use on defense I don't see how they can play at this pace on offense and have any success on defense because they don't have the depth to defend 100 plays against an offense like Memphis.

 

[Chief00]

Watching this team at this point is pretty painful. Personally I think I liked no offense better than no defense - at least the game took 3 hours instead of 4.

From an overall program standpoint - I hope this is the nadir. Teams are going to continue to roll up huge numbers against them (look away for UCF) - but maybe we get a dead cat bounce and the next few weeks show some improvement.

I don't know what the right answer is but I see the issues as this:

• With UConn's funding potentially being cut for the first time in a while the state this program is in is going to give some people a lot of ammunition to make it go away
• The two people who give you the most confidence in the future of the program are probably short-timers
  
• They brought in Crocker to put his system in place knowing there would be massive growing pains (but probably not to this level)

Normally, I don't think it's a tough decision - you hired Crocker to put in this system - you have to give him some rope. The program has already lost everything but the diehards - the amount of time and winning it's going to take to get them back is so abstract I don't even worry about it anymore.

I give a little bit more credence this go around to the posters who want to ditch the 3-3-5 and move to something more traditional. The problems with this are obvious - changing your entire approach mid-stream is just asking for disaster. There aren't even enough practice hours to even accomplish it.

I don't think there is any chance it would work anyway - sure they might give up 55 instead of 70 to Memphis but they still aren't beating those teams. Would it help steal and extra win against Temple or Tulsa or Missouri - maybe I guess - but unless you bet over 3.5 wins does is there really a difference between 3 or 4 wins?

Based on Edsall's comments I don't think they are changing horses mid-stream so unless you've got a strong stomach or are a glutton for punishment, I'd probably check back in September 2018. No matter what scheme they use on defense I don't see how they can play at this pace on offense and have any success on defense because they don't have the depth to defend 100 plays against an offense like Memphis.

When you fix a problem in business or even health, the first rule is don’t screw up what’s already working. The focus on the offense to scrap what’s working ok is the wrong
approach. Put Murphy in at DT and go to a 4-3-4.
On the offense I am sold on the scheme but not BS - yet we are able to put 30 points on the board with a different star each week. That’s an indicator of a really good system.

 

[shizzle787]

Honestly, I don't see us beating any of Tulsa, Temple, or Missouri at this point. The only team we may have a chance to beat is BC who will likely be 2-8 when we meet them.
As far as the program, a couple things come into place:
1. The CTE thing is coming to a head; many people in the medical community think within 5 years doctors will be able to quickly and simply detect CTE among the living.
2. However, we should wait until that day happens and not worry about that yet.
3. I see no reason to can the program yet since CR still is going to be in the works in the next 6-7 years.
4. Crocker needs to be canned.

 

[JMick]

When you fix a problem in business or even health, the first rule is don’t screw up what’s already working. The focus on the offense to scrap what’s working ok is the wrong
approach. Put Murphy in at DT and go to a 4-3-4.
On the offense I am sold on the scheme but not BS - yet we are able to put 30 points on the board with a different star each week. That’s an indicator of a really good system.

we would barely ever be in a 4-3. We'd be in a 4-2 and we would still have to play the same 5 DB's

 

[whaler11]

When you fix a problem in business or even health, the first rule is don’t screw up what’s already working. The focus on the offense to scrap what’s working ok is the wrong
approach. Put Murphy in at DT and go to a 4-3-4.
On the offense I am sold on the scheme but not BS - yet we are able to put 30 points on the board with a different star each week. That’s an indicator of a really good system.

Well I'd decide soon on BS he's down to his last 7 games.

 

[The Funster]

as much as I don't like the way the 335 is working, it cant be scrapped now. Crocker has to show positive progress. Until now it has gotten worse, not better.

 

[Chief00]

as much as I don't like the way the 335 is working, it cant be scrapped now. Crocker has to show positive progress. Until now it has gotten worse, not better.

What was interesting to me was that Edsall basically said we did not have 4 DL, couldn’t the same argument be made that we don’t have 5 DBs? Or is the system so bad, they just look terrible?

 

[Chief00]

Honestly, I don't see us beating any of Tulsa, Temple, or Missouri at this point. The only team we may have a chance to beat is BC who will likely be 2-8 when we meet them.
As far as the program, a couple things come into place:
1. The CTE thing is coming to a head; many people in the medical community think within 5 years doctors will be able to quickly and simply detect CTE among the living.
2. However, we should wait until that day happens and not worry about that yet.
3. I see no reason to can the program yet since CR still is going to be in the works in the next 6-7 years.
4. Crocker needs to be canned.

I agree Crocker just keeps getting worse. Edsall said the team needs more heart a couple weeks after the DC Crocker leaves the sideline for the booth. Shouldn’t he be on the sidelines rallying the troops if their problem involves a lack of heart?

 

[UConnDan97]

A small improvement in the 3-3-5 would lead to a very large improvement in the game. The reason I say that is because we often get the opponent to third down and then allow them to get bailed out time and again.

Against Memphis, the tigers were 8 for 12 on third down conversions in the first half and 13 for 20 on third down conversions in the night. Many in long-distance situations. If you look at our other losses, you'll see similar results. I've made the comment before that Welcome To The Jungle is starting to have some real negative Pavlovian effects for me now.

Can we make the adjustments that stop the bubble screen going for 7 yards? Can we make the adjustments to stop the 15 yard pass over the linebackers in the middle of the field? If we can, we can win a lot of these games coming up. If not...get my whiskey bottle ready...

 

[whaler11]

A small improvement in the 3-3-5 would lead to a very large improvement in the game. The reason I say that is because we often get the opponent to third down and then allow them to get bailed out time and again.

Against Memphis, the tigers were 8 for 12 on third down conversions in the first half and 13 for 20 on third down conversions in the night. Many in long-distance situations. If you look at our other losses, you'll see similar results. I've made the comment before that Welcome To The Jungle is starting to habe some real negative Pavlovian effects for me now.

Can we make the adjustments that stop the bubble screen going for 7 yards? Can we make the adjustments to stop the 15 yard pass over the linebackers in the middle of the field? If we can, we can win a lot of these games coming up. If not...get my whiskey bottle ready...

They also have been in position dozens of times and not made a play. How many times have they let the quarterback escape when they actually do get pressure. How many big catches have been made in traffic where NO ONE has made a play on the ball (Memphis had what 4 in the end zone on Friday alone?).

Is never forcing a fumble scheme? UConn handled the ball like it was a greased pig on Friday.

 

[BugsyCT]

At the very least the improved offense gives the fans some entertainment. Sitting there every game the last few years knowing they can't budge the ball a foot without maximum effort made it impossible to watch. Maybe run it with less hurry-up and see if that works? Just to kill time and keep our D OFF the field longer.

Other that that, the staff is going to have to find some way to patch the holes & fix the schemes in the D so they are remotely competitive. Games like Friday night can never be allowed to happen again. It was ridiculous.

 

[UConnDan97]

They also have been in position dozens of times and not made a play. How many times have they let the quarterback escape when they actually do get pressure. How many big catches have been made in traffic where NO ONE has made a play on the ball (Memphis had what 4 in the end zone of Friday alone?).

Is never forcing a fumble scheme? UConn handled the ball like it was a greased pig on Friday.

Honesty, Whaler, that's what gives me hope in the upcoming games. The idea that just performing some things slightly better would lead to large improvements in results.

Of course, there's the whole business of actually performing slightly better...

 

[huskymedic]

Honesty, Whaler, that's what gives me hope in the upcoming games. The idea that just performing some things slightly better would lead to large improvements in results.

I dont have the breakdown by period but UConn has had more tackles for loss the last two weeks than the previous three. The pressure is getting better but...

 

[noeynox]

A small improvement in the 3-3-5 would lead to a very large improvement in the game. The reason I say that is because we often get the opponent to third down and then allow them to get bailed out time and again.

Against Memphis, the tigers were 8 for 12 on third down conversions in the first half and 13 for 20 on third down conversions in the night. Many in long-distance situations. If you look at our other losses, you'll see similar results. I've made the comment before that Welcome To The Jungle is starting to have some real negative Pavlovian effects for me now.

Can we make the adjustments that stop the bubble screen going for 7 yards? Can we make the adjustments to stop the 15 yard pass over the linebackers in the middle of the field? If we can, we can win a lot of these games coming up. If not...get my whiskey bottle ready...

We are either slow of foot, or slow to react. In either case we play slow. Offenses see this and go at our flats all day. It's safe, and almost guaranteed to churn our 1st downs.

The hope is that guys like Beavers eventually excell in this scheme. I don't see the DL depth for 4 down linemen so we have to just resign ourselves to this horror show.

I feel for these seniors. This is the 3rd total switch in philosophies in their careers. That is a lot.

 

[HuskyHawk]

What was interesting to me was that Edsall basically said we did not have 4 DL, couldn’t the same argument be made that we don’t have 5 DBs? Or is the system so bad, they just look terrible?

Regardless of the base system, you have to play nickel most of the time against a team like Memphis. You can't defend that offense without 5 DBs. What's disturbs me is our inability to stop the run when we know it is coming. We don't seem to adjust very well. We get them in 3rd and 2 and they just run right through us. That used to be a strength.

 

[UConnDan97]

We are either slow of foot, or slow to react. In either case we play slow. Offenses see this and go at our flats all day. It's safe, and almost guaranteed to churn our 1st downs.

The hope is that guys like Beavers eventually excell in this scheme. I don't see the DL depth for 4 down linemen so we have to just resign ourselves to this horror show.

I feel for these seniors. This is the 3rd total switch in philosophies in their careers. That is a lot.

I'm not a 3-3-5 professional (I'm barely an amateur), but there must be adjustments to be made to key on the flats. Even if it means to risk being hit by a different play. Get the corners closer up to the receivers to begin with?

Until we can show that we can stop that play, the results will continue to be the same...

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I’m kinda with you on this one whaler. Sure it’s nice when the offense gets the ball they have a better chance of scoring than in the past but straight up know the other team is going to score with near certainty is painful .

Earlier in the year my mindset was that it’s easier for a bad defense to get lucky with a pick or a fumble than a bad offense getting lucky for a big play. I don’t feel that way after watching our D anymore.

I love getting up and screaming on third and 8 knowing the other guys are going to be easily get 12 yards. I’d love to see stats for percentage of drives vs us leading to scores. It has to be about 80%.

 

[noeynox]

I'm not a 3-3-5 professional (I'm barely an amateur), but there must be adjustments to be made to key on the flats. Even if it means to risk being hit by a different play. Get the corners closer up to the receivers to begin with?

Until we can show that we can stop that play, the results will continue to be the same...

My amateur take is that you need at least 2 punishing defensive backs to make this work. Guys who react quickly in run support and can jar some balls lose when receivers go up for catches. I see some physical shortcomings but I also see players unsure of their assignments who often get caught in between.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

My amateur take is that you need at least 2 punishing defensive backs to make this work. Guys who react quickly in run support and can jar some balls lose when receivers go up for catches. I see some physical shortcomings but I also see players unsure of their assignments who often get caught in between.

I think the coaching staff thought that Summers and Bell would do this with Levenberry dropping back and being disruptive too. Jamar Summers was an early round draft pick dominating games two years ago. Now he doesn’t pass as almost okay. Granted he was sharing the backfield with a couple very good players in Jhavon Williams and Obi and now he’s not but I don’t see how that could make thaaaat big a difference.

Bell was an SEC player who is not very good.

We all know what happened Levenberry.

If we had those three healthy and playing to their potential I’m sure Crocker and Edsall had a much different vision for this year.

 

[Fishy]

I give a little bit more credence this go around to the posters who want to ditch the 3-3-5 and move to something more traditional. The problems with this are obvious - changing your entire approach mid-stream is just asking for disaster. There aren't even enough practice hours to even accomplish it.

I don't think there is any chance it would work anyway - sure they might give up 55 instead of 70 to Memphis but they still aren't beating those teams. Would it help steal and extra win against Temple or Tulsa or Missouri - maybe I guess - but unless you bet over 3.5 wins does is there really a difference between 3 or 4 wins?

Based on Edsall's comments I don't think they are changing horses mid-stream so unless you've got a strong stomach or are a glutton for punishment, I'd probably check back in September 2018. No matter what scheme they use on defense I don't see how they can play at this pace on offense and have any success on defense because they don't have the depth to defend 100 plays against an offense like Memphis.

They can't change it now.

Even if it worked to some degree, and it wouldn't, you're really talking about putting lipstick on a corpse.

If this is the system they want to run, and given that most of these players will be back over the next few seasons, they have to stick with it and take the beatings.

They're playing for next year at this point anyway.

 

[The Funster]

My amateur take is that you need at least 2 punishing defensive backs to make this work. Guys who react quickly in run support and can jar some balls lose when receivers go up for catches. I see some physical shortcomings but I also see players unsure of their assignments who often get caught in between.

I agree. You have to have missiles on the field. You can't run this defense passively. You have to get gap coverage quickly from off the line positions.

 

[uconnphil2016]

as much as I don't like the way the 335 is working, it cant be scrapped now. Crocker has to show positive progress. Until now it has gotten worse, not better.

Maybe a dumb take on my part, but i think the memphis game was somehow our best defensive performance. We looked competent for 1.5 quarters, and we hadn't done that all season. The offense also really hurt with bad turnovers and Memphis is the best offense we've faced. Still God awful, but we werent seeing guys 50 yards downfield without a defender in sight as often as we did in weeks past

 

[SubbaBub]

Friday night looked more like a player's fundamentals problem to me than a scheme problem. Was a 4-3 or 3-4 going to prevent free running receivers?

With the exception of Murphy or Stapleton in for one of the safeties the personnel was going to be the same. Do either of those moves mean more pressure on the QB or better tackling on the perimeter?

I don't think so. The guys aren't doing there job consistently. I suspect the blame for that is universal.

 

[buddy]

Honestly, I don't see us beating any of Tulsa, Temple, or Missouri at this point. The only team we may have a chance to beat is BC who will likely be 2-8 when we meet them.
As far as the program, a couple things come into place:
1. The CTE thing is coming to a head; many people in the medical community think within 5 years doctors will be able to quickly and simply detect CTE among the living.
2. However, we should wait until that day happens and not worry about that yet.
3. I see no reason to can the program yet since CR still is going to be in the works in the next 6-7 years.
4. Crocker needs to be canned.

I doubt that UConn will beat BC. Sorry. Their record is not an indication of the level of play. They are better than they were last year when they thrashed UConn. I think as time goes by, with what is likely to happen to UConn financially, with the budget cuts, loss of XL Center and athletically, loss of Benedict and Lashlee back to Auburn, Susan blabbing nonsense, the P5 hopes are growing more and more distant in the rear view mirror. I fear UConn has already been surpassed by many of our AAC brethren. I hate to be negative in reply to you, but that is what I see.

 

[scoobydoo]

Maybe a dumb take on my part, but i think the memphis game was somehow our best defensive performance.

I get what you are saying but its a dumb take. We gave up 70