The Warriors

[superjohn]

Warriors v. Hornets at the half. Curry- 18 minutes has 26 points on 9-12 fg's, 8-10 threes. Klay- 19 minutes has 26 points 9-14 fg's 5-9 threes.

 

[BUConn10]

Good thing they added Durant, they really needed that extra boost.

And people are on Lebron's case just for speaking candidly and saying he thinks the Cavs need another playmaker. It seems ridiculous coming from the King and the current champs, but the NBA is a league of matchups; has anyone looked at what he is preparing to go up against? Next to the Warriors the Cavs talent looks average and aged.

 

[billythekid]

I actually attended the game through a UConn alumni group. If you heard the handful of applause when Kemba scored, that was us. Unfortunately, there wasn't much to cheer for from Charlotte. The Warriors play a beautiful brand of basketball. Even without Curry's otherworldly shooting, they seem to make the right pass to the right person to get open shots. The Hornets only lost by fifteen, but the game never felt close from the opening minutes.

 

[InKembaITrust]

Was out in Cali for the first time this past January. Went to the GSW vs OKC game. For starters I have to say the TD Garden in my opinion is a far better venue than the Oracle Arena. I had to pay $40 to park there, security has a stick up their ass the whole game, and the food options suck. Aside from that it was the first time I ever saw Durant play in person. I've never been more impressed watching a single player play in person. The guy is a freak of nature and in my opinion the best offensive player in the league, and I'm a Celts fan so no bias here with IT consideration.

 

[Horatio]

I thought you meant......

 

[gtcam]

Good thing they added Durant, they really needed that extra boost.

And people are on Lebron's case just for speaking candidly and saying he thinks the Cavs need another playmaker. It seems ridiculous coming from the King and the current champs, but the NBA is a league of matchups; has anyone looked at what he is preparing to go up against? Next to the Warriors the Cavs talent looks average and aged.

I have no problem with LJ asking for more help, to management behind closed doors, but have we ever heard the pompous King say that he needed to pick up his game or how he can make his team better? He is thought (not by me) to be by far the best player - can't he carry the team?
I never remember hearing Larry Bird, Magic, Tim D, Kareem or others cry in public saying they needed more help in this manner. They may have done it in private. They also said at times that they needed to pick it up or get teammates more involved.
Has anyone see what he is preparing to go up against? Is he the only one in the league facing GS?
The guy is a GREAT talent but I have never understood his holier than everyone attitude

 

[UConn990411]

Good thing they added Durant, they really needed that extra boost.

And people are on Lebron's case just for speaking candidly and saying he thinks the Cavs need another playmaker. It seems ridiculous coming from the King and the current champs, but the NBA is a league of matchups; has anyone looked at what he is preparing to go up against? Next to the Warriors the Cavs talent looks average and aged.

LeBron has always been one of the most over-criticized athletes, but considering he basically handpicked this roster, it's a little ridiculous for him to be calling management out publicly.

I don't have a problem with the LeBron criticism in this particular instance.

 

[August_West]

 

[Matrim55]

LeBron has always been one of the most over-criticized athletes, but considering he basically handpicked this roster, it's a little ridiculous for him to be calling management out publicly.

Nah. Gilbert promised he'd spare no expense, but he's hesitated all year long to add another PG. Dude gave his word and is going back on it, and LeBron is right to call him out.

Same thing from Arison is why LeBron left Miami.

 

[superjohn]

Nah. Gilbert promised he'd spare no expense, but he's hesitated all year long to add another PG. Dude gave his word and is going back on it, and LeBron is right to call him out.

Same thing from Arison is why LeBron left Miami.

This is silly and unprecedented, Gilbert has spent more than any owner in history since LeBron has been there. The team is handpicked by LeBron and they always have the highest payroll. He's an amazing player but give me a break. It's also not a good look when you keep selling out your own teammates by saying you want to have CP3, Wade and Melo on your team.

 

[Matrim55]

This is silly and unprecedented, Gilbert has spent more than any owner in history since LeBron has been there.

So what? The agreement was that he'd spend without limits. That's not what he's done.

 

[Horatio]

JR Smith is out and Kevin Love has back issues. Cleveland does need help. End of story. Lebron could've whined about it, put it in a rap song or whispered it in Gilberts ear. It doesn't matter. JR Smith is out and Kevin Love has Back issues .

 

[superjohn]

So what? The agreement was that he'd spend without limits. That's not what he's done.

The agreement? Bwahahaha.

 

[Kitaman]

LeBron has always been one of the most over-criticized athletes, but considering he basically handpicked this roster, it's a little ridiculous for him to be calling management out publicly.

I don't have a problem with the LeBron criticism in this particular instance.

Again I really think this is the case of a kid not getting good counseling/advice. Since childhood he was anointed and I suspect ego trumped humility from then on.

Like the Announcement (or whatever they call it) he erred in judgement and should have kept this private. Its another mistake he made with the expected consequences (i.e. criticism) you described. Jordan did the same publicly complaining about acquisitions, most notably George Gervin. Magic as well with Norm Nixon and later Kobe with Shaq.

It must be tough to see GSW make an acquisition of the caliber of Durant even though they didn't need him. Sit down with management privately and discuss how to make the team better and support management, especially if they are making the effort. To beg for mid-season acquisitions creates stress on the current players along with insecurities and distrust.

The kid is a great basketball player, now with several Championships. If he can win more with the squad he has then his legacy will be up there with Jordan, Kobe and the other true Greats. Him and Kyrie could win another one or two, because of himself, 'Lebron James', always in the Finals. The stat below is quite remarkable even if his team is out of the Eastern Division. Even if his career were to end this season he has lived up to his name and unlike many other Greats in his class he has represented himself with class, dignity and self respect (on and off the court).

LEBRON'S FINALS (YEAR OPPONENT CHANCE TO WIN)
2007 San Antonio Spurs 13%
2011 Dallas Mavericks 63
2012 Oklahoma City Thunder 51
2013 San Antonio Spurs 66
2014 San Antonio Spurs 31
2015 Golden State Warriors 28
2016 Golden State Warriors 25

 

[traitor71]

So what? The agreement was that he'd spend without limits. That's not what he's done.

Who are they supposed to get, and how? They don't have a magician like Riley to pull deals out of a hat, and even if they did, it's still not the most attractive place in the world to go play. Maybe later in the season someone will be available, but they have to deal with reality until then.

 

[BUConn10]

I have no problem with LJ asking for more help, to management behind closed doors, but have we ever heard the pompous King say that he needed to pick up his game or how he can make his team better? He is thought (not by me) to be by far the best player - can't he carry the team?
I never remember hearing Larry Bird, Magic, Tim D, Kareem or others cry in public saying they needed more help in this manner. They may have done it in private. They also said at times that they needed to pick it up or get teammates more involved.
Has anyone see what he is preparing to go up against? Is he the only one in the league facing GS?
The guy is a GREAT talent but I have never understood his holier than everyone attitude

Yea he actually says those things about himself all the time, in fact I'd say "helping his team" is one of Lebron's biggest assets as he's one of the most unselfish superstars in the league. Just because you don't follow Lebron and don't hear him say certain things doesn't mean he doesn't say them.

Lebron could average 40 ppg if he wasn't so committed to being the primary playmaker for his team, and a defensive powerhouse.

It's hilarious to me, people suck Kobe dry despite being an inefficient volume scorer for almost all of his career. A guy who literally dragged his franchise to the bottom of the barrel near the end of his career due to his refusal to change his play style and his offputting attitude on a team full of young guys and he is worshipped as the greatest, the "toughest" because he allegedly never says "soft" things like Lebron said about needing another playmaker haha. I'd take Lebron's "soft" comments on my team any day, because the guy has the pull to make it happen when it goes public.

 

[UConn990411]

Again I really think this is the case of a kid not getting good counseling/advice. Since childhood he was anointed and I suspect ego trumped humility from then on.

Like the Announcement (or whatever they call it) he erred in judgement and should have kept this private. Its another mistake he made with the expected consequences (i.e. criticism) you described. Jordan did the same publicly complaining about acquisitions, most notably George Gervin. Magic as well with Norm Nixon and later Kobe with Shaq.

It must be tough to see GSW make an acquisition of the caliber of Durant even though they didn't need him. Sit down with management privately and discuss how to make the team better and support management, especially if they are making the effort. To beg for mid-season acquisitions creates stress on the current players along with insecurities and distrust.

The kid is a great basketball player, now with several Championships. If he can win more with the squad he has then his legacy will be up there with Jordan, Kobe and the other true Greats. Him and Kyrie could win another one or two, because of himself, 'Lebron James', always in the Finals. The stat below is quite remarkable even if his team is out of the Eastern Division. Even if his career were to end this season he has lived up to his name and unlike many other Greats in his class he has represented himself with class, dignity and self respect (on and off the court).

LEBRON'S FINALS (YEAR OPPONENT CHANCE TO WIN)
2007 San Antonio Spurs 13%
2011 Dallas Mavericks 63
2012 Oklahoma City Thunder 51
2013 San Antonio Spurs 66
2014 San Antonio Spurs 31
2015 Golden State Warriors 28
2016 Golden State Warriors 25

You're preaching to the wrong person - I think LeBron's awesome, and he's turned out just fine for someone whose been in the spotlight the majority of his life. But he does himself no favors complaining about the supporting cast when he basically handpicked the current roster.

They could've had Wiggins for peanuts right now, but LeBron insisted that they give him up for Love. Not saying it was the wrong move, and the championship last year pretty good confirmation it wasn't. But it certainly limits their flexibility, so LeBron deserves some of the accountability for that.

 

[superjohn]

Yea he actually says those things about himself all the time, in fact I'd say "helping his team" is one of Lebron's biggest assets as he's one of the most unselfish superstars in the league. Just because you don't follow Lebron and don't hear him say certain things doesn't mean he doesn't say them.

Lebron could average 40 ppg if he wasn't so committed to being the primary playmaker for his team, and a defensive powerhouse.

It's hilarious to me, people suck Kobe dry despite being an inefficient volume scorer for almost all of his career. A guy who literally dragged his franchise to the bottom of the barrel near the end of his career due to his refusal to change his play style and his offputting attitude on a team full of young guys and he is worshipped as the greatest, the "toughest" because he allegedly never says "soft" things like Lebron said about needing another playmaker haha. I'd take Lebron's "soft" comments on my team any day, because the guy has the pull to make it happen when it goes public.

Kobe is worshipped as the greatest?

 

[tjc1888]

You're preaching to the wrong person - I think LeBron's awesome, and he's turned out just fine for someone whose been in the spotlight the majority of his life. But he does himself no favors complaining about the supporting cast when he basically handpicked the current roster.

They could've had Wiggins for peanuts right now, but LeBron insisted that they give him up for Love. Not saying it was the wrong move, and the championship last year pretty good confirmation it wasn't. But it certainly limits their flexibility, so LeBron deserves some of the accountability for that.

I'll preface this rant with fact that I am not a LBJ fan, but I do respect him as a player.

But to continue on what you said, he pretty much begged for the Cavs to resign JR, Shumpert and TT. Those contracts have severely limited their flexibility. There's a soft/hard cap and luxury tax in the NBA, the Cavs are over the cap (and paying a great deal of luxury tax) meaning they have a great deal of restrictions on who they can sign and for how much. They basically have to sign guys for the vet minimum. A) who is out there that is a"playmaker" b) who is a "playmaker" that's willing to sign for the vet min.

Ok, if hes saying they need to trade for one......No one is taking those horrible contracts that Gilbert gave out to appease LJ. He made his bed by forcing Gilbert's hand. He needs to lay in it. He has a cake walk to the finals again. If it were up to LBJ, his team would be the all-star/Olympic team and everyone else would be the Nets.

Side note- It's probably just because I don't like him and probably has no merit but I semi blame him for this Duke/Kentucky monopoly on one and dones. The decision justified these super teams, and these young hs kids want to be like him. So they are trying to do their own college super teams. Calipari always got recruits but not to the extent he has recently (post decision). This happened to coincide with him going to UK, but I'm sticking with my theory.

 

[Matrim55]

But to continue on what you said, he pretty much begged for the Cavs to resign JR, Shumpert and TT. Those contracts have severely limited their flexibility.

They were hard capped even without those contracts. It was literally "sign those guys, or sign dudes out of the D-League."

They basically have to sign guys for the vet minimum. A) who is out there that is a"playmaker" b) who is a "playmaker" that's willing to sign for the vet min.

No, they don't. They have multiple open trade exceptions in the $4-5m range.

Ok, if hes saying they need to trade for one.No one is taking those horrible contracts that Gilbert gave out to appease LJ.

Again: This is incorrect. It was those contracts or nothing for the Cavs, and they don't have to move one of those contracts in order to get another player. All they have to do is find a team that wants to cut salary and then they can take that player into a trade exception.

Cleveland Cavaliers

Amount: $4,399,117
Obtained: Anderson Varejao (Trail Blazers)
Expires: 2/18/17
Original amount: $9,638,554
Used to acquire: Kyle Korver ($5,239,437)

Amount: $947,276
Obtained: Jared Cunningham (Magic)
Expires: 2/18/17

Amount: $1,333,420
Obtained: Sasha Kaun (Sixers)
Expires: 7/15/17

Amount: $4,837,500
Obtained: Mike Dunleavy (Hawks)
Expires: 1/7/18

Amount: $2,194,500
Obtained: Mo Williams (Hawks)
Expires: 1/7/18

So yeah, the Cavs have about 2.5 weeks to add a 4.5m player into the Varejao exception unless Gilbert cheaps out. My money's on Shelvin Mack for a pick.

 

[BUConn10]

Kobe is worshipped as the greatest?

To Kobe and Lakers fans yes. He is overrated by a strong majority of casual NBA fans. Most of the breakroom SportsCenter crowd seem to think its MJ then Kobe, not even close.

 

[tjc1888]

They were hard capped even without those contracts. It was literally "sign those guys, or sign dudes out of the D-League."


No, they don't. They have multiple open trade exceptions in the $4-5m range.


Again: This is incorrect. It was those contracts or nothing for the Cavs, and they don't have to move one of those contracts in order to get another player. All they have to do is find a team that wants to cut salary and then they can take that player into a trade exception.

Cleveland Cavaliers

Amount: $4,399,117
Obtained: Anderson Varejao (Trail Blazers)
Expires: 2/18/17
Original amount: $9,638,554
Used to acquire: Kyle Korver ($5,239,437)

Amount: $947,276
Obtained: Jared Cunningham (Magic)
Expires: 2/18/17

Amount: $1,333,420
Obtained: Sasha Kaun (Sixers)
Expires: 7/15/17

Amount: $4,837,500
Obtained: Mike Dunleavy (Hawks)
Expires: 1/7/18

Amount: $2,194,500
Obtained: Mo Williams (Hawks)
Expires: 1/7/18

So yeah, the Cavs have about 2.5 weeks to add a 4.5m player into the Varejao exception unless Gilbert cheaps out. My money's on Shelvin Mack for a pick.

$4.5m player is less than the MLE......you are not getting someone who is a difference maker for that cheap. Cool you get Shelvin Mack, that will really help you beat the Warriors.

Gilbert "cheaps" out is hilarious considering the Cavs are paying $14 million more than the 2nd highest payroll. Paid $54 Million in luxury tax (last season), and the on the hook for another $27 million this year. All in all thats $81 million in luxury tax in two years. I don't care how much money you have.....that's a ton.

More to my point.......$4.5 mill in trade exception is not going to move the needle either way in terms of adding someone who can help you beat the Warriors and I get they had to sign JR, Shump, and TT, but when 95% of your roster is untradeable (either bad contracts or guys like Kyrie/Love/LBJ), what are you going to do? I guess you already answered that question with saying you would get Shelvin Mack. But that doesn't do it for me.

 

[Matrim55]

I guess you already answered that question with saying you would get Shelvin Mack. But that doesn't do it for me.

Excellent defensive PG who doesn't turn the ball over much and can give Kyrie 15 MPG of rest without flushing the offense down the toilet, and has playoff experience. Averaged 12/5/4 on 44/36/74 shooting splits for Utah last year, and is just 26 years old.

You're right that he doesn't put Cleveland over the top against Golden State, but he'd get them a damn sight closer than Deandre Liggins or Kay Felder.

EDIT: And yeah, you were wrong about the contract situation. 4.5m is less than the MLE, but it's significantly more than the vet minimum -- which is what you were basing your argument off of. Take your L.

 

[tjc1888]

Excellent defensive PG who doesn't turn the ball over much and can give Kyrie 15 MPG of rest without flushing the offense down the toilet, and has playoff experience. Averaged 12/5/4 on 44/36/74 shooting splits for Utah last year, and is just 26 years old.

You're right that he doesn't put Cleveland over the top against Golden State, but he'd get them a damn sight closer than Deandre Liggins or Kay Felder.

EDIT: And yeah, you were wrong about the contract situation. 4.5m is less than the MLE, but it's significantly more than the vet minimum -- which is what you were basing your argument off of. Take your L.

Alright.....I guess I'll take my L, didn't think this was an argument but whatever. You are the one that got all defensive. I'm guessing you are a Cavs fan or a LBJ fan.

All those splits are down this year and if you want to cherry pick stats from last year, I can do that too.......except from this year. This year he ranks 76th out of 86 PGs in RPM......412th of 441 eligible NBA players. Good for -0.21 wins.

But having said all that, yes he is better than Felder and Liggins. I'll give you that.

 

[BUConn10]

$4.5m player is less than the MLE.you are not getting someone who is a difference maker for that cheap. Cool you get Shelvin Mack, that will really help you beat the Warriors.

Gilbert "cheaps" out is hilarious considering the Cavs are paying $14 million more than the 2nd highest payroll. Paid $54 Million in luxury tax (last season), and the on the hook for another $27 million this year. All in all thats $81 million in luxury tax in two years. I don't care how much money you have.....that's a ton.

More to my point..$4.5 mill in trade exception is not going to move the needle either way in terms of adding someone who can help you beat the Warriors and I get they had to sign JR, Shump, and TT, but when 95% of your roster is untradeable (either bad contracts or guys like Kyrie/Love/LBJ), what are you going to do? I guess you already answered that question with saying you would get Shelvin Mack. But that doesn't do it for me.

Theres this thing called "trading" in pro sports too ya know.