The View From Section 241 -- Jim Mora | Page 3 | The Boneyard

The View From Section 241 -- Jim Mora

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businesslawyer said:
So you have us as the best positioned to succeed 1-11 team ever basically. Look, from your mouth to God’s ear. I hope your right. But as I’ve seen said, the race doesn’t always go to the swiftest, but that’s still
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Put it this way - who would you rather be right now - UConn Football or BCU basketball? I know which one i would pick.

We control our own destiny.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I also agree that the conference we called home at that time was a convenient excuse for the men's program falling.
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You are both wrong. It was killing the women's team, too.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I also agree that the conference we called home at that time was a convenient excuse for the men's program falling. Quality leadership from the head coach could have kept us at a high level. The excuses reminded me of the early-mid 1980's when there were comments that we could never compete in the Bug East.

I also understood (but was not happy with) the return to the BE as the new AAC tv contract would have crippled us financially. I will also admit that the schedules DB put together are immensely superior to anything that I could have anticipated. At the time of the BE return I assumed we were destined to live in the bottom 20% of FBS. While we haven't shown it on the field, once I started seeing who our opponents would be I was convinced we could return to where we were during the end of RE's first run.
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It's funny, but the "basketball people" at UConn (not just admins, but boosters, other administrators and hanger ons kind of took out the failures under Ollie in the AAC on football. I was of the voice, can't they just win in the AAC? And the retort was can't recruit. If Diaco went 705, 6-6 and the team was .500 in the AAC over the last five yers, would they have left to the Big East and Indy?

Probably not. That's why there is/was/still a movement to kill football. That isn't media people inventing it. It took AD and even Gov. Lamont, who is defacto head of the BoT to nix that talk.

Edit: take a poll of all the boards: Big East and no football or AAC and football team lives. What do you choose? Basketball people would take the hoops kill football path (and I think they would take that and not blink). I think Benedict has done a splendid job positioning the FB program right now. It's going to be hard. But they have a schedule and a coach and a commitment. Now it is time to win games and execute on field...sell tickets fill up stadium in marketing and sales off the field.

Edit II: And i am not belittling basketball people. That's the powerhouse of the program and the Unviersity owes a ton to those programs. That is is UConn's brand, as a basketball school. UConn isn't a catholic university though. So, it's always been a struggle since I am of the opinion that flagship State Universities should play major football.
 
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Waquoit said:
You are both wrong. It was killing the women's team, too.
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That's the POINT. We - University of Connecticut AD - have an identity. The fanbase enthusiasm was dead for the teams in the AAC (with the exception of Baseball). We were swirling around the bowl. Sure the HC. Sure football was inept. But it all combined to a point that the buzz we count on as a community of fans was dreadful.

Just better games. WBB and MBB playing games we care about. Rise in Hockey etc. The Football comes in on a wave of good feeling and Mora has the opportunity/responsibility of a restart.
 
JohnFSilver said:
It's funny, but the "basketball people" at UConn (not just admins, but boosters, other administrators and hanger ons kind of took out the failures under Ollie in the AAC on football. I was of the voice, can't they just win in the AAC? And the retort was can't recruit. If Diaco went 705, 6-6 and the team was .500 in the AAC over the last five yers, would they have left to the Big East and Indy?

Probably not. That's why there is/was/still a movement to kill football. That isn't media people inventing it. It took AD and even Gov. Lamont, who is defacto head of the BoT to nix that talk.

Edit: take a poll of all the boards: Big East and no football or AAC and football team lives. What do you choose? Basketball people would take the hoops kill football path (and I think they would take that and not blink). I think Benedict has done a splendid job positioning the FB program right now. It's going to be hard. But they have a schedule and a coach and a commitment. Now it is time to win games and execute on field...sell tickets fill up stadium in marketing and sales off the field.

Edit II: And i am not belittling basketball people. That's the powerhouse of the program and the Unviersity owes a ton to those programs. That is is UConn's brand, as a basketball school. UConn isn't a catholic university though. So, it's always been a struggle since I am of the opinion that flagship State Universities should play major football.
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Yes, we do have to blame the decline of the men's basketball program on Ollie, but the AAC was a bad fit for basketball and the next coach after Ollie would have struggled to turnaround the program in the AAC. Sure, a good coach could have gotten basketball to some 20 win seasons, but it would have been tough to attract recruits from the Northeast to UConn and try to make deep NCAA basketball runs. And, if the AAC was a bad fit before, imagine playing in the AAC without Cincinnati, UCF, and Houston. Look at what joining the ACC has done for basketball at Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College as all three programs have lost their relevance.

I believe leaving the AAC for the Big East and Independence in football will not only prove to be a competitive benefit for all programs, but it will be a financial benefit for UConn through better schedules, more athletic support, higher ticket sales,...

Now, if Jim Mora can get us to 4 wins next year......
 
JohnFSilver said:
I with the curmudgeon's Palantine. Win freaking games. No more we have a high APR, we have great kids at turkey drives, we have great culture and teamwork. Those are important, but secondary to winning games. Win games. 8-4 with great kids is better than 10-2 with a police blotter squad that embarrasses.

But, 1-11 isn't making anyone smile.

Also, Great breakdown BL. I was more shocked by the hire. Not that DB made it, but that Mora wanted it. They, literally, got a guy they have no right getting IMO. IF he wins here, does Mora jump to a big-time P5 role? Maybe. I don't know. He's also 60, doesn't need the money, and maybe he is crazy enough to continue this Don Quixote style quest.

If Liberty, Costal Carolina, Boise State, ULM, Northern Illinois can be good, why can't UConn? Fair question.

Just a thought,

Everyone's been so focused on what UConn can't do -- No p5 invite, can't get into CFP, can't sell stadium, it isn't the South. A non-football person told me once -- "What are we doing with FB? What's the point? You can't win a national title here."

No one has looked what they can do -- Pump out more NFL players than their profile says they should, schedule mid-P5 home and home.

Mora doesn't have the toxicity and negativity of someone associated with the football program. Amazing what that can do. I think, and this goes for people at UConn that are in and around athletics, that fans have come to resent the program. Randy coming back in did the opposite of what DB wanted - it gave people a chance to yell and bury Edsall and the football program. That was a strategic error.

The resources, the attention it gets, and the money it uses. They wanted it to fail, reflexively, because basketball was so desperately hurt by the AAC, quite unexpectedly TBH. I thought UConn's brand and ability was big enough after all the titles. It wasn't. Big East needs UConn, UConn needs Big East.

While football lives, there is always a chance that football drives the bus and the Huskies are out of the Big East. Unfathomable now. But in 5 years? In 10 years? If all you care about is basketball, then football is a threat. Right now, it isn't a big one. But what happens if the Huskies get decent?

Good for the AD department and university? Yes. Is it good for the basketball programs? Not so clear. That tension is going to be there, always.
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I have to say Wow!! I don't think football would be a threat to basketball or hockey or soccer, I think it might help. UConn is known as a basketball school, but now with the Jim Mora hire, people are saying UConn is going all in on Football and they are serious about it.

Jim Mora been at the basketball games and I'm not sure if he been to any hockey games yet, but I don't think football is a threat.
 
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Just to remember, FB was sold as Big-Time FB. And the public bought in, the lower bowl bench seat season tickets sold out over night. Once it turned to AAC small-time football, the enthusiasm waned. The FB onlies on the Yard still wish we were there.
 
Waquoit said:
You are both wrong. It was killing the women's team, too.
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I'm curious, was it membership in the Big East's that caused the downturn in the women's program during the stretch from when Diana graduated until Maya arrived?

The most damage that AAC membership did to the women's program (this extended through the entirety of the athletic department and school) was when the new agreement with ESPN took tier three rights from the women's hoops program (and the conference basically bragged about the new contract when it was little more than distributing this revenue stream throughout the conference).

There are few things easier than looking for something to blame failure on. It provides a means to deflect blame and allows those with limited vision to avoid looking for a way to succeed.
 
JohnFSilver said:
take a poll of all the boards: Big East and no football or AAC and football team lives. What do you choose?
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Those seem like random false choices. Clearly, all sports can be in the Big East, except for Hocky, and we can still have a football program. Likewise, it’s not like the football program was killing it in the American conference. In fact, in the near term, independence may end up being helpful part of resuscitating football.

I think when you lay that out like a dichotomy, 1) the poll does nor produce useful information, and 2) it perpetuates the narrative that basketball success and football success are not compatible. That just isn’t true.

JMO
 
CL82 said:
Those seem like random false choices. Clearly, all sports can be in the Big East, except for Hocky, and we can still have a football program. Likewise, it’s not like the football program was killing it in the American conference. In fact, in the near term, independence may end up being helpful part of resuscitating football.

I think when you lay that out like a dichotomy, 1) the poll does nor produce useful information, and 2) it perpetuates the narrative that basketball success and football success are not compatible. That just isn’t true.

JMO
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Being independent allows us to schedule more opponents that are closer to home. We play sexier opponents. We are on TV more. We are more insulated from the volatility of conference membership.
 
ZooCougar said:
AAC hoop was just a scapegoat. Ollie lost his mind.

Even still, Big East basketball is far better. And going independent in football gives us some opportunities that we wouldn't otherwise get.
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Mostly agree. I think the overly parochial UConn fans also struggled to embrace even good AAC teams as opponents. So it did hurt the fanbase, even it that was the fault of the fans (plus some uninspiring Ollie teams). Big East helps, because the energy is back with the staff and the fans. The biggest reason the AAC wasn't a better basketball conference is because UConn let it down.

As for football, I think UConn and DB in particular took a calculated risk. I have no doubt that Dave checked with many other ADs before we made the move to see if we could get games as an independent. It relies on our brand recognition, which is higher than schools like UMass, if probably below BYU. Basketball being good again helps the football team schedule. It was a smart gamble. Now if Mora can actually make it a winning program, scheduling will improve further. Given the AAC implosion there isn't any doubt that our schedule can be better as an indy than in that league. Given our timeline, it also seems clear that we would not have been invited to the Big XII.
 
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FfldCntyFan said:
There are few things easier than looking for something to blame failure on. It provides a means to deflect blame and allows those with limited vision to avoid looking for a way to succeed.
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The AAC took it's toll, grinded them down. I'm sure Geno loved having to go international to get a decent recruit for the last few years there. Some place where the word hadn't gone out. Look at the gaps in the recruiting classes, he lost his touch? If so, it came back the split second the Big East was back.

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Waquoit said:
The AAC took it's toll, grinded them down. I'm sure Geno loved having to go international to get a decent recruit for the last few years there. Some place where the word hadn't gone out. Look at the gaps in the recruiting classes, he lost his touch? If so, it came back the split second the Big East was back.

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I'll disregard the first three seasons in the AAC as they had Stewie and lost one game in the three seasons combined.

The following three years:
2016-2017 Final four, lost in OT on a buzzer beater.
2017-2018 Final four, lost in OT on a buzzer beater.
2018-2019 Final four, had a 9 or lead with 7 1/2 left in the game, down 1 with a minute left, lost by 5.

If that is getting ground down, every coach in every sport in the country would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

Go ahead, alter the facts to fit your agenda all you want.
 
Waquoit said:
You are both wrong. It was killing the women's team, too.
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Now that is 10 pounds of crap in a 3 pound bag. You are talking about the team that won the national championships in its first 3 years in the league, right? And went to the Final Four every year? That women’s team? Some of you post stuff that is incredible. What has hurt the Womens team is that a handful of other programs have decided it is worth investing in the sport so now there are actually 4 or 5 teams at the top as opposed to maybe 1-2 in years past. And in five years there will likely be 8-10. And guess what? Only 1 will be from the Big East.

As for mens recruiting, that’s another canard. Restricting our recruiting to the northeast weakens the program not strengthens it. Our great teams had guys from across the nation, and the best guys, the stars, were from LA, or Texas, or Israel or Minneapolis, or South Carolina or Detroit or Utah Or Washington State. We had New Yorkers or Boston guys too, and guys from Pennsylvania of course, but UConn under Calhoun was a truly national program. If there was a potentially great player Calhoun wanted him. Hurley only wants to recruit in driving distance of Storrs. That’s fine, but ultimately it will limit this program to Seton Hall level.

It is the same outlook that thinks Mora should fill the team with Connecticut high school kids. To be a national program you need to recruit nationally. In basketball it is internationally.
 
freescooter said:
Now that is 10 pounds of crap in a 3 pound bag. You are talking about the team that won the national championships in its first 3 years in the league, right? And went to the Final Four every year? That women’s team? Some of you post stuff that is incredible. What has hurt the Womens team is that a handful of other programs have decided it is worth investing in the sport so now there are actually 4 or 5 teams at the top as opposed to maybe 1-2 in years past. And in five years there will likely be 8-10. And guess what? Only 1 will be from the Big East.

As for mens recruiting, that’s another canard. Restricting our recruiting to the northeast weakens the program not strengthens it. Our great teams had guys from across the nation, and the best guys, the stars, were from LA, or Texas, or Israel or Minneapolis, or South Carolina or Detroit or Utah Or Washington State. We had New Yorkers or Boston guys too, and guys from Pennsylvania of course, but UConn under Calhoun was a truly national program. If there was a potentially great player Calhoun wanted him. Hurley only wants to recruit in driving distance of Storrs. That’s fine, but ultimately it will limit this program to Seton Hall level.

It is the same outlook that thinks Mora should fill the team with Connecticut high school kids. To be a national program you need to recruit nationally. In basketball it is internationally.
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I don't know how to place a rolling eyes emoji here ... but you get one. Seton Hall level?

Lift yourself off the ground. March yourself to the Principal's office. Hurley - imho - has a great feel for how this fits together. He gets driving distance kids because WE are now a Blueblood; he would grab other's if they catch his vision ... but he is too busy filling the roster today with his targeted kids from near. CALHOUN? He went to Federal Way Washington, Phoenix AZ, Atlanta GA, Jacksonville FL and LA for Kevin Ollie because ... HE COULD NOT WIN THE LOCALS. He sold the Big East conference. He grabbed his kind of players NATIONAL because he wasn't going to beat the other Big East teams in that early era. Then he kept that mode for a decade. But eventually the DC to New England became out best.
 
freescooter said:
Now that is 10 pounds of crap in a 3 pound bag. You are talking about the team that won the national championships in its first 3 years in the league, right? And went to the Final Four every year? That women’s team? Some of you post stuff that is incredible.
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They weren't going to the Final Four in their last AAC season. The stench that was the AAC took it's toll. Geno was starting Anna Makurat and Kyla Irwin. You hear what you want to hear and disregard the rest. Repetition doesn't make you any less clueless.
 
Pudge said:
I don't know how to place a rolling eyes emoji here ... but you get one. Seton Hall level?

Lift yourself off the ground. March yourself to the Principal's office. Hurley - imho - has a great feel for how this fits together. He gets driving distance kids because WE are now a Blueblood; he would grab other's if they catch his vision ... but he is too busy filling the roster today with his targeted kids from near. CALHOUN? He went to Federal Way Washington, Phoenix AZ, Atlanta GA, Jacksonville FL and LA for Kevin Ollie because ... HE COULD NOT WIN THE LOCALS. He sold the Big East conference. He grabbed his kind of players NATIONAL because he wasn't going to beat the other Big East teams in that early era. Then he kept that mode for a decade. But eventually the DC to New England became out best.
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Oh please. You obviously have no clue of what our recruiting was like. By 2000 Calhoun and UConn were obviously established and could recruit the northeast. After all he had just won the first title by a New England team since Bob Cousy’s Jr. year at Holy Cross. Yet the star of his team from 2002-2004 was from Texas. We had a Canadian. A guy from Chicago. Yes, a couple of New Yorkers but overall national. Same with 2011. A German, a guy from Nevada, a guy from Georgia. the star was a New Yorker but the team was national/ international.

Couldn’t recruit the Northeast. Honestly sometimes guys ignore the facts that don’t fit their notions.
 
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freescooter said:
Oh please. You obviously have no clue of what our recruiting was like. By 2000 Calhoun and UConn were obviously established and could recruit the northeast. After all he had just won the first title by a New England team since Bob Cousy’s Jr. year at Holy Cross. Yet the star of his team from 2002-2004 was from Texas. We had a Canadian. A guy from Chicago. Yes, a couple of New Yorkers but overall national. Same with 2011. A German, a guy from Nevada, a guy from Georgia. the star was a New Yorker but the team was national/ international.

Couldn’t recruit the Northeast. Honestly sometimes guys ignore the facts that don’t fit their notions.
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I think I am just older and wiser than you ... OR ... I am quoting the Great Jim Calhoun EXACTLY. From 1990-1993,
 
Waquoit said:
They weren't going to the Final Four in their last AAC season. The stench that was the AAC took it's toll. Geno was starting Anna Makurat and Kyla Irwin. You hear what you want to hear and disregard the rest. Repetition doesn't make you any less clueless.
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The flaw in your argument is that during the entirety of the time spent in the AAC they would have missed one final four (and that only if your projection of being eliminated before that point in a non-COVID suspended tournament came true).

For your argument to work, they would have needed to make the final four every year while on the BE. I can think of three consecutive years in the not too distant past where they missed.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
The flaw in your argument is that during the entirety of the time spent in the AAC they would have missed one final four (and that only if your projection of being eliminated before that point in a non-COVID suspended tournament came true).

For your argument to work, they would have needed to make the final four every year while on the BE. I can think of three consecutive years in the not too distant past where they missed.
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You clearly do not follow the women's team or you wouldn't have used the word if here. Silly post, the WBB team is at their lowest ranking in the polls in over a decade and you're saying the AAC had nothing to do with it.
 
You know freescooter: Jim Calhoun wrote a book called "Dare to Dream". We can cite a page and chapter. When UCONN opened 1987, we had no shot at most decent hoop recruits in the northeast. Tate George wasn't that highly rated. Chris Smith and Scott Burrell were hope and a prayer. Calhoun inherits Gamble, Cliffy, Besselink. What was his thought? I cannot win today going head to head with SU, Villanova, St John's, Georgetown. I am gonna go preach the Big East conference exposure and great play NATIONALLY. That is why he sent assistants to far flung camps, competitions, high schools. By necessity.

In a decade, he was winning Rip Hamilton. Kevin Freeman. But, he had laid the ground work to get El Amin, Caron, Jake; we were National.
 
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Waquoit said:
You clearly do not follow the women's team or you wouldn't have used the word if here. Silly post, the WBB team is at their lowest ranking in the polls in over a decade and you're saying the AAC had nothing to do with it.
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Even if I were to concede the women's team not making the final four in 2020, that is only one miss in the entirety of our time in the AAC. We missed three straight years between Diana and Maya, was that the Big East's fault?

I could be wrong (as I obviously don't have your insight into the women's program) but if Azzi and Paige hadn't been hurt, would we have lost the Ga Tech? I am confident that we would still be a top five team if we had won that game (again, if this is being "ground down" everyone would sign up for it).

Were the injuries due to our having spent most of the past decade in the AAC? I'd love to know how that could be the case. Also, how many HS All Americans are on our roster? But yeah, we are at a low point.

For the record, I'm very happy being back in the BE. My point is too many are blaming the AAC for shortcomings that we really should be blaming ourselves for (and this was why I pointed out the early-mid 1980's and the "we can't compete in men's basketball in the BE" excuses).

Also for the record, if we sponsor a sport my preference is for us to be as good as possible (as long as it doesn't require cutting another sport) in it.

If you want to die on the hill "it was being I the AAC, no other reason" for the losses to Miss St, ND twice, etc., go ahead. I won't change your mind and you cannot possibly change my opinion.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Even if I were to concede the women's team not making the final four in 2020, that is only one miss in the entirety of our time in the AAC. We missed three straight years between Diana and Maya, was that the Big East's fault?

I could be wrong (as I obviously don't have your insight into the women's program) but if Azzi and Paige hadn't been hurt, would we have lost the Ga Tech? I am confident that we would still be a top five team if we had won that game (again, if this is being "ground down" everyone would sign up for it).

Were the injuries due to our having spent most of the past decade in the AAC? I'd love to know how that could be the case. Also, how many HS All Americans are on our roster? But yeah, we are at a low point.

For the record, I'm very happy being back in the BE. My point is too many are blaming the AAC for shortcomings that we really should be blaming ourselves for (and this was why I pointed out the early-mid 1980's and the "we can't compete in men's basketball in the BE" excuses).

Also for the record, if we sponsor a sport my preference is for us to be as good as possible (as long as it doesn't require cutting another sport) in it.

If you want to die on the hill "it was being I the AAC, no other reason" for the losses to Miss St, ND twice, etc., go ahead. I won't change your mind and you cannot possibly change my opinion.
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Look at what a UConn WBB team has done with just AAC players this year. Lose.
 
Waquoit said:
Look at what a UConn WBB team has done with just AAC players this year. Lose.
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You must be joking. This is on the AAC?

If the current state of the women's program is because of the AAC I'd like to know how the BE is getting the credit it has been getting on the men's board for what Hurley has done. Did they belong to their respective conferences at different times?

Also, I still haven't seen an answer on the stretch between Diana's last game with us and Maya's first but it would be silly if me to expect some form of rational feedback or intelligent discussion.
 
Waquoit said:
Look at what a UConn WBB team has done with just AAC players this year. Lose.
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No attack but what are you on besides beer? Maybe some of the horse racing meds? ;)
You have absolutely no clue of the women's basketball team or why they have lost a few games against top 10 teams.

I'll let you look for the facts but extend an olive branch by letting you know last years NCAA player of the year is out injured.
Oh and her backup is also out injured, both being the point guard.

Obviously you only follow the football team so think of it as your #1 and #2 QBs are out. How does that usually play out? Has nothing to do with the recruiting that has been great. They have lost 3 games all to top ranked teams, four players on the bench hobbling wounded.
You should catch a game sometime, you might enjoy it. Then be able to make a more informed comment on them. ;)
 
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