The Sad Tale of LV Basketball...for us!

[WestCoastFan]

Let's see...bare with me:
--Immaculata
--Delta State
--Old Dominion
--La Tech
All have come and gone. Tenn is crashing and burning.

Meanwhile, WCBB seems to be doing really well, especially compared to other women's sports. Good rivalries, good teams springing up, a few stellar teams and UConn. Disagree that the sport needs a strong TU...history is nice, but time for others to step up. If the fans of that team want to lament about "the beautiful years", that's their business. I don't miss them. The school went with the easy choice and let's face it, even though most of us really enjoy WCBB, the ladies team is not a real concern for the TU administration. If it was, that poor thing would be out of a job.

BTW, I agree with our ND monkey friend...really tired of hearing all that garbage about Deesheilds and that tall girl. Not close to being impressed.

 

[WestCoastFan]

Thought-invoking piece...thanks!
There is a lot of talent in Knoxville, but will the individual talent mesh into an effective team? That might be a question to ask of all women's basketball. Louisville's Jeff Waltz recently commented that a lot of his players were more concerned about "offense first," which was a marked change from what the coach wanted.

So I think of a couple of things:
- Will the talent brought on campus be coachable? Want to improve? While no program is perfect (as we humans are not), UConn, ND do a fine job of getting players who seem to strive to improve themselves individually and collectively.

Several teams seem to be stockpiling talent as of late -- Texas, Baylor, Maryland. Can all this talent be meshed into a team? Or will they be units of odd-matching talents?

- Coaches can then shape, drive and perpetuate this process. Some can do this via sheer force of will..I liked the analogy of Pat Summitt and Coach Calhoun. Summit's team had a lot of talent and she seemed to always make sure the right person got the ball when needed, whether that was in a set system or not. She drove the team....
- UConn and ND both have long-standing coaches, staffs and systems in place. But they're not static in their approach, far from it...they adjust to their talent and situations (witness ND's recent necessary embrace of "small ball").
Can they continue when Geno and Muffit leave? Holly Warlick was a long-time assistant, but given Summit's true strength was--well--herself, it's hard to pass that on. UConn and ND might be able to replicate a lot of things, particularly since they appear to work so closely with the head coaches, but we'll see.
- And change. Will all kids want to go to established schools? Is there a new flavor of the year that is articulated at other places or coaches.

Don't forget about the Transfer Kingdom of SCAR.

 

[Tonyc]

The downfall of Tenn started when UConn received commitments from EDD Maya and Caroline. At the time it was thought Tenn would get one or two of them they didn't so Pat signed a bunch of top ranked players who all played wings forward and post positions and no real guards. Pat also used all her schollys thus leaving very little room to compete with UConn in recruiting for the next couple of years which left the door open for other teams to recruit top players without Pat and Tenn in their way they did and I believe this opened the door for more parity. Tenn began to spiral down and it hasn't stopped. Year after Year the pollsters continue to rank Tenn high in the polls and year after year Tenn has proven they are not a top 10 team. I believe the 37 page NCAA violation hurt Tenn as many AAU coaches and parents resented what was being said and felt it was sour grapes. The NCAA pretty much came to the same conclusion. So here we are several years later and the fallout hasn't stopped. Tenn still has the talent but it isn't like it used to be. It used to be a recruiting war between UConn and Tenn and it aint so anymore. Now its UConn and everybody else.

What happened at Tenn will not happen at UConn. Geno is to smart to retire and not have the incoming coach set up to continue to build on what he has built. I don't think Geno will go anywhere to soon. Geno still has records to set and goals to reach and when that is accomplished then we can talk about whats next for him. UConn and the State of CT are making a lot of money as is the City of Hartford because of WBB. Geno is worth a lot of money to CT and I am sure he will be around for another contract which will pay a lot more then he is making now.

So stop the worries. Im sure there is a plan in place when Geno decides to retire. Nobody is going to let this program drop like other programs have. UConn WCBB is a huge money maker for CT and they wont let it die.

 

[vtcwbuff]

"I agree with our ND monkey friend . . . "

Our ND friend is not a monkey.

 

[WestCoastFan]

"I agree with our ND monkey friend . . . "

Our ND friend is not a monkey.

Ok...an ape. Good call, Ms Goodall.

 

[cferraro04]

If ND has taken Tennessee's place, I just wonder who takes our place when Geno retires in 5-6 years?

Baylor, Ohio State, South Carolina, Louisville, Maryland, DePaul, UCLA, California, USF, Texas, Kansas...at this point one might just say "Mission Accomplished"...after all we all wanted parity to come to WCBB

 

[meyers7]

I am guilty of schadenfreude and thoroughly enjoying the plight of Lady Vols Basketball!

I don't think there's any measurable harm done to the advancement of wcbb because of it. In fact, I don't think there's ever been more parity in the #2 thru #10 ranked teams these days. There's a lot of really entertaining games being played in wcbb by the likes of DePaul, South Florida, Oregon State, Florida State, Ohio State, Maryland, et al. I was even impressed by Kansas State, Nebraska and Chattanooga when we played them. Things are looking up for wcbb. Of course when looking up, everyone's necks still get cramped looking up at UConn!

That said, I have empathy for Holly (the individual) as I watch her pacing the sidelines bewildered and overwhelmed - demonstrating that she's reached her "level of incompetence" as HC of Lady Vols Bball. Not her fault - she was a loyal assistant to Pat and loyal employee to the University for decades, so she took the position to help preserve Pat's legacy and advance her own career - both honorable, sensible reasons. And the University went with her for the same reasons; continuity and loyalty. Time for Rocky Top to go in a different direction!

Ah yes, the old Peter Principle.

 

[UcMiami]

TonyC - agree with all you say with the exception of the change in the way Pat recruited - I think she always recruited to stockpile talent with little regard to playing style or position - TN often had very unbalanced rosters with a log jam of forwards/posts that continued into the Parker years when she realized she had no PG and had to scramble into the JC pool to find Bobbit, without whom TN probably would not have gotten their last two NCs. That situation happened before Maya, Caroline, and EDD.

 

[watanabe]

Until the nasty evil fans and supporters of UT are humbled sufficiently I don't feel sorry for their plight.
For the supporters and fans of UT that have maintianed their bearings through all this, I feel their pain and hope the program comes back some day to reward their loyalty and legend.
It is a mix of feelings. Visiting the VolNation forum, you can see the disparity between the types of fans.
Some you can root/hope for, most of the others should just become extinct.

 

[Bigpetunia]

Until the nasty evil fans and supporters of UT are humbled sufficiently I don't feel sorry for their plight.
For the supporters and fans of UT that have maintianed their bearings through all this, I feel their pain and hope the program comes back some day to reward their loyalty and legend.
It is a mix of feelings. Visiting the VolNation forum, you can see the disparity between the types of fans.
Some you can root/hope for, most of the others should just become extinct.

OK, point taken....but what I was really trying to suggest in my original post has little to do with Tenn fans and followers in particular, and more to do, at least potentially (alas), with us. Sports history teaches us how rarely the truly legendary coaches come along, and how dismal is the record in attempts to perpetuate their success when the time for replacement ultimately, and inevitably, comes. To resort to the vernacular, the slide from the penthouse to the outhouse is a pretty slippery slope...and few are invulnerable. A very few institutions, I think, just because of who they are and what they represent, have at least some modest level of built-in immunity to this kind of fate (Notre Dame springs to mind) (I "hate" Notre Dame!)...a bit of immunity that does not necessarily apply to places like Ruston, or Knoxville, or, probably, and I hate to say it, Storrs. So, for me, the LV situation serves as kind of an object lesson in a reality I hate to admit exists. Some here aver that this "catastrophic" slide, thanks to Geno's genius, cannot and will not happen here. I applaud their optimism, but respectfully demur. Now, I know that many say, with justification, "why even post this stuff, why worry about that now...just enjoy the ride while we can." I do, I do, as much as anyone. But that's also like saying don't worry or speculate on where our favorite team will be next year after Stewie and Mo go, or don't pay close attention to recruiting for 2017...these "looking ahead" things are just what fans do!

 

[watanabe]

OK, point taken....but what I was really trying to suggest in my original post has little to do with Tenn fans and followers in particular, and more to do, at least potentially (alas), with us. Sports history teaches us how rarely the truly legendary coaches come along, and how dismal is the record in attempts to perpetuate their success when the time for replacement ultimately, and inevitably, comes. To resort to the vernacular, the slide from the penthouse to the outhouse is a pretty slippery slope...and few are invulnerable. A very few institutions, I think, just because of who they are and what they represent, have at least some modest level of built-in immunity to this kind of fate (Notre Dame springs to mind) (I "hate" Notre Dame!)...a bit of immunity that does not necessarily apply to places like Ruston, or Knoxville, or, probably, and I hate to say it, Storrs. So, for me, the LV situation serves as kind of an object lesson in a reality I hate to admit exists. Some here aver that this "catastrophic" slide, thanks to Geno's genius, cannot and will not happen here. I applaud their optimism, but respectfully demur. Now, I know that many say, with justification, "why even post this stuff, why worry about that now...just enjoy the ride while we can." I do, I do, as much as anyone. But that's also like saying don't worry or speculate on where our favorite team will be next year after Stewie and Mo go, or don't pay close attention to recruiting for 2017...these "looking ahead" things are just what fans do!

In Geno I trust.

 

[Sargassoc]

So, for me, the LV situation serves as kind of an object lesson in a reality I hate to admit exists. Some here aver that this "catastrophic" slide, thanks to Geno's genius, cannot and will not happen here. I applaud their optimism, but respectfully demur.

I agree. One of the only very successful coaching dynasty changes I can think of is Roy Williams following Dean Smith-- and now, perhaps, we know why that worked out so well for them.

 

[Sargassoc]

Baylor, Ohio State, South Carolina, Louisville, Maryland, DePaul, UCLA, California, USF, Texas, Kansas...at this point one might just say "Mission Accomplished"...after all we all wanted parity to come to WCBB

I didn't.

 

[Gus Mahler]

She seems like a pleasant person, but seems also to be intent on preservation of Pat's 'system' and unable to innovate.

Yes. You've identified a key point in all of this. And this is aggravated by Pat's continued presence and her title as coach emeritus. Holly's loyalty will contribute greatly to her downfall.

Of course there are other reasons, well articulated in the posts above.

 

[uconnfan68]

The biggest difference between UT and UCONN is that UCONN has a system which Geno created years ago and he recruits players that fit the system. Even after Geno moves on I believe the system will continue. UT/Pat hasd always recruited top talent and then created her game plans around that talent. It worked for years as she was able to recruit the most talented players year after year. Once Geno and UCONN came around that started to change. And now teams are recruiting top tiered players in an effort just to beat UCONN.

After Geno moves on, we have no idea what will happen to UConn women's basketball. The conference thing may rear its ugly side for them too. Depending on who replaces him, it could be a small step or a large step, but almost certainly a step backward. Enjoy the present.

 

[JoePgh]

As to whether Storrs will go the way of Old Dominion and Louisiana Tech after Geno retires, I would make two observations:

1. The Calhoun-to-Ollie transition seems to be working out quite well (to my taste, the change is an improvement and has gotten me more interested in the UConn men's team that I could ever have been while Calhoun was coach);
2. I don't think Geno would recommend an assistant out of loyalty as Pat did, unless he truly believed that was the best person to continue the level of excellence. And I certainly don't think he would hover around practices after he became "emeritus".

There is a new possible outcome in the last week, and that is the new coach hired by the Connecticut Sun on Geno's recommendation. He is only in his late forties. If he can turn the Sun around in the next few years, that may put him in the pole position in the race to be Geno's replacement.

I will renew my Sun season ticket, which I had deferred until the Sun hired a new coach. Based on what I have read, this guy seems to be very promising.

 

[DaddyChoc]

What happened at Tenn will not happen at UConn. Geno is to smart to retire and not have the incoming coach set up to continue to build on what he has built. I don't think Geno will go anywhere to soon. Geno still has records to set and goals to reach and when that is accomplished then we can talk about whats next for him.

I dont think Tenn expected Pat's situation... nothing to prepare for.

What happens if the shoe was on UConn's foot? does CD step in, for how long or does she hang them up like Geno?

 

[UcMiami]

I dont think Tenn expected Pat's situation... nothing to prepare for.

What happens if the shoe was on UConn's foot? does CD step in, for how long or does she hang them up like Geno?

If there was a sudden crisis and Geno had to step down immediately, I am sure that Chris would step in for a limited time, but I doubt she would stay on beyond a few years. She obviously would feel loyalty to both the program and the players already on the team.