The pump fake, dribble drive, travel

[my2cents]

People have pretty much explained the travel rule well.
My issue where the game has changed, is that "step back' thing. It seems to have made a rule to allow a player a chance to get behind the 3 point line. No dribble, just move both feet behind the line. Caitlin Clark did it 5 times every game. The same move from a post player under the basic would be called a travel.
The other rule that is gone is the carry or palming the ball. ( Naismith would be turning over in his grave on this one). Those paused and delayed dribbles are mostly the players carrying the ball.

 

[BBallF]

People have pretty much explained the travel rule well.
My issue where the game has changed, is that "step back' thing. It seems to have made a rule to allow a player a chance to get behind the 3 point line. No dribble, just move both feet behind the line. Caitlin Clark did it 5 times every game. The same move from a post player under the basic would be called a travel.
The other rule that is gone is the carry or palming the ball. ( Naismith would be turning over in his grave on this one). Those paused and delayed dribbles are mostly the players carrying the ball.

Allen Iverson made in main stream with the crossover. You need to carry the ball to effectively cross over away from the defender. The "palm" call is effectively dead.

 

[boontonbomber]

How about the "double dribble"? If a player tries to catch a pass, but drops the ball and then picks
It up , how come they can then go ahead and dribble? Isn't dropping the ball a dribble? And I think I saw a player recently juggle a pass, push the ball to the floor trying to get control, catch it, and then go ahead and dribble.

 

[Skeets]

Different, but maybe in the same vein. I will never stop thinking the Euro step is a travel. Every time. I keep hearing people say "It's not," but my eyes tell me differently.

It certainly looks weird, but I have to watch it carefully in slow motion. Could the weirdness fool the refs?

 

[boontonbomber]

How about the "double dribble"? If a player tries to catch a pass, but drops the ball and then picks
It up , how come they can then go ahead and dribble? Isn't dropping the ball a dribble? And I think I saw a player recently juggle a pass, push the ball to the floor trying to get control, catch it, and then go ahead and dribble.

OK, AI says player "clumsily" dropping a ball is not considered a dribble. I think if you lose control of the ball and recover it, it should be considered a dribble. I'm old , so maybe that was once the rule. Seems like the dropping of the ball sometimes happens as the player is trying to make a move before they have total control. I think that should be a dribble.

 

[Skeets]

It is annoying, to be sure. It’s all about picking up your pivot foot and putting it back down before you dribble the ball. But the best players (think Paige) will pump fake and then initiate their dribble a split second before they pick up and put down their pivot foot.

It could be players wanting to be up by 30 in the first quarter. It seems to me that there is more traveling in the first quarter than later in the game.

 

[Skeets]

100% she was wrong.

You can't submarine a shooter. I'll defer to our retired navy people here on the BY on submarines.

 

[JoePgh]

OK, AI says player "clumsily" dropping a ball is not considered a dribble. I think if you lose control of the ball and recover it, it should be considered a dribble. I'm old , so maybe that was once the rule. Seems like the dropping of the ball sometimes happens as the player is trying to make a move before they have total control. I think that should be a dribble.

There is a difference between trying to get control of the ball (and not succeeding) vs. having the ball fully in control and then deciding to dribble a second time. Until the player has full control of the ball, the dribble does not and cannot start.

It's like a pass receiver in football. If he is trying to catch a pass but is still juggling it or squeezing it when he goes out of bounds, it's an incomplete pass. The player must have full control in bounds (and then get 1 foot down in bounds in college or 2 feet in the NFL) in order for the completed catch to be recognized.

 

[FanSince17]

There is a difference between trying to get control of the ball (and not succeeding) vs. having the ball fully in control and then deciding to dribble a second time. Until the player has full control of the ball, the dribble does not and cannot start.

It's like a pass receiver in football. If he is trying to catch a pass but is still juggling it or squeezing it when he goes out of bounds, it's an incomplete pass. The player must have full control in bounds (and then get 1 foot down in bounds in college or 2 feet in the NFL) in order for the completed catch to be recognized.

But in football, the only thing that matters is the ground and the boundary. In basketball, a player can not “fumble” the ball and move their pivot foot. Then it becomes a situation of “passing to yourself”, which is an infraction. That would be a travel. Refs miss that frequently.
Sometimes in the open court going toward the goal for a layup, the player will pass it to themselves down court. I would argue that’s a travel, as long as the pivot foot has been moved. Unless the pass down court is determined to be a dribble, then the dribble can be continued or the ball layed in without further dribbling.

 

[boontonbomber]

But in football, the only thing that matters is the ground and the boundary. In basketball, a player can not “fumble” the ball and move their pivot foot. Then it becomes a situation of “passing to yourself”, which is an infraction. That would be a travel. Refs miss that frequently.
Sometimes in the open court going toward the goal for a layup, the player will pass it to themselves down court. I would argue that’s a travel, as long as the pivot foot has been moved. Unless the pass down court is determined to be a dribble, then the dribble can be continued or the ball layed in without further dribbling.

I think what you describe, involving the pivot foot, is what I see happening. And it's not called

 

[WiseWillie]

How about the "double dribble"? If a player tries to catch a pass, but drops the ball and then picks
It up , how come they can then go ahead and dribble? Isn't dropping the ball a dribble? And I think I saw a player recently juggle a pass, push the ball to the floor trying to get control, catch it, and then go ahead and dribble.

A player can dribble again after dropping the ball if they have an accidental loss of control such as a fumble (ball slips from one hand) or an opponent touches the ball causing the player to lose control they can pick it up and dribble again. Once a player has stopped their dribble by holding the ball with both hands they have picked up their dribble. If the player has already ended their dribble by catching the ball with two hands they have picked up their dribble and if they then drop the ball they cannot pick it up and dribble again as this would be a double dribble violation.

 

[Pharos]

Worse. It will cause injuries if allowed. Kayleigh got belted yesterday on one of them. it's not basketball. The principle of verticality was developed because the area on the court is limited and there are 10 players occupying a small area. It's allowed perhaps this year because setting a pick is a lost art. Think John Stockton- Karl Malone. The true pick and roll is basketball's unstoppable play. The pick is stationary or at least supposed to be so it is up to the dribbler to rub his man off the pick not for the pick to move.

This is why I listed the 3 things I did in the "What do we want to see tonight" thing. Solid picks, tight cuts, and open shots

 

[KCD]

Allen Iverson made in main stream with the crossover. You need to carry the ball to effectively cross over away from the defender. The "palm" call is effectively dead.

When I played, you couldn't have your fingers below the top third (or so) of the bball or you would get called for carrying the ball. We still dribbled behind our backs, through our legs, weaved through traffic, etc. just fine. Today, in the NBA the players are dribbling along with their hand under the ball and taking a couple of steps while doing it. In the NBA, the refs don't call any of the basic rules of the game (traveling, double dribble, carying, etc.). If they play by the same "basic" rules, should it be considered the same game? Sorry, I got a little off topic. But you get my drift.