The pump fake, dribble drive, travel

[YKCornelius]

Ash and also Blanca and K9 took the step first and then began to dribble. In other words, they are doing what they would ordinarily do if they had not moved both feet before. If you ball or eye fake, you don't move your feet. Most of the time this happens when the player sets up for an outside shot only realizing that there is a clear path to the basket and then they begin a drive with a step not a dribble. Shoot the 3.

Stamfordhusky is correct. You can take a step after receiving the ball, but the ball has to be out of your hand heading towards the floor to begin your dribble before you initiate the second step with your other foot.

 

[BBallF]

Stamfordhusky is correct. You can take a step after receiving the ball, but the ball has to be out of your hand heading towards the floor to begin your dribble before you initiate the second step with your other foot.

Read my whole post. They all moved both feet upon receiving the ball because they were squaring up for a shot. Then they took a step without beginning to dribble. That's a walk. To state it differently they lifted up their pivot foot before they dribbled.

 

[Basingstoke]

Back to the offensive foul in Blanca. To my eyes, she split the 2 defenders and the one who frew the charge was a but off to her side and slightly late. I think that the call was wrong and the problem is that her move was just too fast for the referees to properly assess what happened.
It's my hope that refs go to the video to prep for UCONN before officiating their games. Her combination of size, speed and moves is pretty unique in the college game.

 

[FanSince17]

Back to the offensive foul in Blanca. To my eyes, she split the 2 defenders and the one who frew the charge was a but off to her side and slightly late. I think that the call was wrong and the problem is that her move was just too fast for the referees to properly assess what happened.
It's my hope that refs go to the video to prep for UCONN before officiating their games. Her combination of size, speed and moves is pretty unique in the college game.

What are coaches allowed to "challenge"?

 

[my2cents]

On a somewhat related rules question, the female announcer in the Ohio State - UConn game made a comment about an offensive foul that had just been called (it might have been on Blanca). She said that the offensive player "left her feet, which allows the defense to move in front of her and establish position" (to take a charge).

I believe this is 100% incorrect. I have always heard that a defender on a drive must establish his/her position BEFORE the offensive player starts his/her shooting motion, and leaving one's feet certainly implies that the offensive player has started his/her shooting motion. So if the defender moves into position to take contact after that, the foul is on the defender -- it is a block and not a charge.

Or is this the rule only in the NBA? I've heard that explanation most often while watching NBA games. But it makes perfect sense -- an offensive player who has started a shooting motion cannot change direction to avoid a defender who moves in front of him/her, so he/she should not be called for a charging foul. Is this the rule in WCBB also?

100% she was wrong.

 

[my2cents]

People have pretty much explained the travel rule well.
My issue where the game has changed, is that "step back' thing. It seems to have made a rule to allow a player a chance to get behind the 3 point line. No dribble, just move both feet behind the line. Caitlin Clark did it 5 times every game. The same move from a post player under the basic would be called a travel.
The other rule that is gone is the carry or palming the ball. ( Naismith would be turning over in his grave on this one). Those paused and delayed dribbles are mostly the players carrying the ball.

 

[BBallF]

People have pretty much explained the travel rule well.
My issue where the game has changed, is that "step back' thing. It seems to have made a rule to allow a player a chance to get behind the 3 point line. No dribble, just move both feet behind the line. Caitlin Clark did it 5 times every game. The same move from a post player under the basic would be called a travel.
The other rule that is gone is the carry or palming the ball. ( Naismith would be turning over in his grave on this one). Those paused and delayed dribbles are mostly the players carrying the ball.

Allen Iverson made in main stream with the crossover. You need to carry the ball to effectively cross over away from the defender. The "palm" call is effectively dead.

 

[boontonbomber]

How about the "double dribble"? If a player tries to catch a pass, but drops the ball and then picks
It up , how come they can then go ahead and dribble? Isn't dropping the ball a dribble? And I think I saw a player recently juggle a pass, push the ball to the floor trying to get control, catch it, and then go ahead and dribble.

 

[Skeets]

Different, but maybe in the same vein. I will never stop thinking the Euro step is a travel. Every time. I keep hearing people say "It's not," but my eyes tell me differently.

It certainly looks weird, but I have to watch it carefully in slow motion. Could the weirdness fool the refs?

 

[boontonbomber]

How about the "double dribble"? If a player tries to catch a pass, but drops the ball and then picks
It up , how come they can then go ahead and dribble? Isn't dropping the ball a dribble? And I think I saw a player recently juggle a pass, push the ball to the floor trying to get control, catch it, and then go ahead and dribble.

OK, AI says player "clumsily" dropping a ball is not considered a dribble. I think if you lose control of the ball and recover it, it should be considered a dribble. I'm old , so maybe that was once the rule. Seems like the dropping of the ball sometimes happens as the player is trying to make a move before they have total control. I think that should be a dribble.

 

[Skeets]

It is annoying, to be sure. It’s all about picking up your pivot foot and putting it back down before you dribble the ball. But the best players (think Paige) will pump fake and then initiate their dribble a split second before they pick up and put down their pivot foot.

It could be players wanting to be up by 30 in the first quarter. It seems to me that there is more traveling in the first quarter than later in the game.

 

[Skeets]

100% she was wrong.

You can't submarine a shooter. I'll defer to our retired navy people here on the BY on submarines.

 

[JoePgh]

OK, AI says player "clumsily" dropping a ball is not considered a dribble. I think if you lose control of the ball and recover it, it should be considered a dribble. I'm old , so maybe that was once the rule. Seems like the dropping of the ball sometimes happens as the player is trying to make a move before they have total control. I think that should be a dribble.

There is a difference between trying to get control of the ball (and not succeeding) vs. having the ball fully in control and then deciding to dribble a second time. Until the player has full control of the ball, the dribble does not and cannot start.

It's like a pass receiver in football. If he is trying to catch a pass but is still juggling it or squeezing it when he goes out of bounds, it's an incomplete pass. The player must have full control in bounds (and then get 1 foot down in bounds in college or 2 feet in the NFL) in order for the completed catch to be recognized.

 

[FanSince17]

There is a difference between trying to get control of the ball (and not succeeding) vs. having the ball fully in control and then deciding to dribble a second time. Until the player has full control of the ball, the dribble does not and cannot start.

It's like a pass receiver in football. If he is trying to catch a pass but is still juggling it or squeezing it when he goes out of bounds, it's an incomplete pass. The player must have full control in bounds (and then get 1 foot down in bounds in college or 2 feet in the NFL) in order for the completed catch to be recognized.

But in football, the only thing that matters is the ground and the boundary. In basketball, a player can not “fumble” the ball and move their pivot foot. Then it becomes a situation of “passing to yourself”, which is an infraction. That would be a travel. Refs miss that frequently.
Sometimes in the open court going toward the goal for a layup, the player will pass it to themselves down court. I would argue that’s a travel, as long as the pivot foot has been moved. Unless the pass down court is determined to be a dribble, then the dribble can be continued or the ball layed in without further dribbling.

 

[boontonbomber]

But in football, the only thing that matters is the ground and the boundary. In basketball, a player can not “fumble” the ball and move their pivot foot. Then it becomes a situation of “passing to yourself”, which is an infraction. That would be a travel. Refs miss that frequently.
Sometimes in the open court going toward the goal for a layup, the player will pass it to themselves down court. I would argue that’s a travel, as long as the pivot foot has been moved. Unless the pass down court is determined to be a dribble, then the dribble can be continued or the ball layed in without further dribbling.

I think what you describe, involving the pivot foot, is what I see happening. And it's not called

 

[WiseWillie]

How about the "double dribble"? If a player tries to catch a pass, but drops the ball and then picks
It up , how come they can then go ahead and dribble? Isn't dropping the ball a dribble? And I think I saw a player recently juggle a pass, push the ball to the floor trying to get control, catch it, and then go ahead and dribble.

A player can dribble again after dropping the ball if they have an accidental loss of control such as a fumble (ball slips from one hand) or an opponent touches the ball causing the player to lose control they can pick it up and dribble again. Once a player has stopped their dribble by holding the ball with both hands they have picked up their dribble. If the player has already ended their dribble by catching the ball with two hands they have picked up their dribble and if they then drop the ball they cannot pick it up and dribble again as this would be a double dribble violation.

 

[Pharos]

Worse. It will cause injuries if allowed. Kayleigh got belted yesterday on one of them. it's not basketball. The principle of verticality was developed because the area on the court is limited and there are 10 players occupying a small area. It's allowed perhaps this year because setting a pick is a lost art. Think John Stockton- Karl Malone. The true pick and roll is basketball's unstoppable play. The pick is stationary or at least supposed to be so it is up to the dribbler to rub his man off the pick not for the pick to move.

This is why I listed the 3 things I did in the "What do we want to see tonight" thing. Solid picks, tight cuts, and open shots

 

[KCD]

Allen Iverson made in main stream with the crossover. You need to carry the ball to effectively cross over away from the defender. The "palm" call is effectively dead.

When I played, you couldn't have your fingers below the top third (or so) of the bball or you would get called for carrying the ball. We still dribbled behind our backs, through our legs, weaved through traffic, etc. just fine. Today, in the NBA the players are dribbling along with their hand under the ball and taking a couple of steps while doing it. In the NBA, the refs don't call any of the basic rules of the game (traveling, double dribble, carying, etc.). If they play by the same "basic" rules, should it be considered the same game? Sorry, I got a little off topic. But you get my drift.