The problem with Paige

[ballerfan]

Couldn't agree more. But Bueckers was often guarded by someone 6 or more inches shorter than her and all she had to do was find an open spot and elevate and there was nothing the defender could do. That elevation also gives her the time to alter her shot on many of her drives. For her the Ark defenders were easy pickings.

BTW I loved her teardrop shot from 8-10 feet. That's what she's developed to shoot over Boston & Cardoso. I don't think Wilt could block that shot.

I just registered to reply to this post.

Paige is 5’11”. If someone were six inches shorter, she would be 5’5”. My2cents, because this is short, I think you might not be serious. But I got curious about the height of Arkansas players.

I looked on the Arkansas roster page, and no player was under 5’7”. I then watched a highlight video of every bucket made by Paige to see who guarded her. Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Goforth, 6’1”, four times; Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, two times; Davis, 6’0”, one time; Wolfenbarger, 6’5”, one time; Elllis, 6’3”, with Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Barnum, 6’2”, with Davis, 6’0”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, with Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Eaton, 6’0”, one time; and uncontested, one time.

 

[Happydad745]

The only trouble with Paige is she is not 6'7 and can stuff with either hand.

 

[D J B]

Couldn't agree more. But Bueckers was often guarded by someone 6 or more inches shorter than her and all she had to do was find an open spot and elevate and there was nothing the defender could do. That elevation also gives her the time to alter her shot on many of her drives. For her the Ark defenders were easy pickings.

BTW I loved her teardrop shot from 8-10 feet. That's what she's developed to shoot over Boston & Cardoso. I don't think Wilt could block that shot.

I just registered to reply to this post.

Paige is 5’11”. If someone were six inches shorter, she would be 5’5”. My2cents, because this is short, I think you might not be serious. But I got curious about the height of Arkansas players.

I looked on the Arkansas roster page, and no player was under 5’7”. I then watched a highlight video of every bucket made by Paige to see who guarded her. Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Goforth, 6’1”, four times; Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, two times; Davis, 6’0”, one time; Wolfenbarger, 6’5”, one time; Elllis, 6’3”, with Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Barnum, 6’2”, with Davis, 6’0”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, with Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Eaton, 6’0”, one time; and uncontested, one time.

Thank you. I was beginning to look into this as well, and I see you've done a great job of breaking it down play-by-play. That took some work, and is much appreciated.

And welcome to the BY.

 

[and one]

I just finally watched the replay of the AK game. After the talk in some threads about how competitive the Uconn second five could be against good teams, I think, as of now, the answer is clear - not very. It goes without saying that without Paige we would have lost this game. Aside from Paige no one stood out or looked better than the AK players. CW was ok, Evina was ok. The rest...somewhere south of ok. All in all a team not ranked in the top 25 looked as good as we were - except for Paige.

AK sure did get to the rim a lot, really a lot, and not because they were really quick. The driving lanes were huge and usually no one in the paint closed up to compensate for that. I've be high on AE, but her just allowing lay-ups to avoid fouls is inexcusable. Maybe if she was dominating the boards and scoring a lot giving up a few baskets to stay on the floor is ok. That was not the case here.

Other than Paige (I'm forced to say that again and again) the offense had no pizazz and the defense was barely adequate. No scoring runs, no steals leading to lay-ups, no stretches where it was clear we were the better team. Sure, it is early yet and there is a lot of basketball to be played but a whole lot more players are going to have to step it up and soon. I love watching Paige, but if it is the Paige show too often the rest of the team is doing something wrong.

 

[Cuango]

I just finally watched the replay of the AK game. After the talk in some threads about how competitive the Uconn second five could be against good teams, I think, as of now, the answer is clear - not very. It goes without saying that without Paige we would have lost this game. Aside from Paige no one stood out or looked better than the AK players. CW was ok, Evina was ok. The rest...somewhere south of ok. All in all a team not ranked in the top 25 looked as good as we were - except for Paige.

AK sure did get to the rim a lot, really a lot, and not because they were really quick. The driving lanes were huge and usually no one in the paint closed up to compensate for that. I've be high on AE, but her just allowing lay-ups to avoid fouls is inexcusable. Maybe if she was dominating the boards and scoring a lot giving up a few baskets to stay on the floor is ok. That was not the case here.

Other than Paige (I'm forced to say that again and again) the offense had no pizazz and the defense was barely adequate. No scoring runs, no steals leading to lay-ups, no stretches where it was clear we were the better team. Sure, it is early yet and there is a lot of basketball to be played but a whole lot more players are going to have to step it up and soon. I love watching Paige, but if it is the Paige show too often the rest of the team is doing something wrong.

I would agree that without Paige we may have lost the game. Certainly that we would have been more likely to lose! But to flat out state it as fact is going too far Imo. First off, others, E, CW, Liv, AE, Azzi would have had to shoot more, they presumably would have been practicing for months without her, and we have no way of knowing how all those players would have reacted to those circumstances. Lest we forget, there are other good players on this team besides Paige! She is obviously a transcendent player but the others aren’t exactly chopped liver. These kind of retroactive observations that make definitive statements regarding the possible outcome if one element had been changed are at the very least very subjective if not downright deceptive. Truth is, we or anyone else can have no idea why would have happened if Paige had not played.

 

[CL82]

See that is why the BY is so good. There are actually witty people on it.

 

[LarryLegend]

the only problem with Paige is that if Geno keeps playing her for 40 minutes every game she will be worn down to a nub in short order

 

[ballerfan]

I just registered to reply to this post.

Paige is 5’11”. If someone were six inches shorter, she would be 5’5”. My2cents, because this is short, I think you might not be serious. But I got curious about the height of Arkansas players.

I looked on the Arkansas roster page, and no player was under 5’7”. I then watched a highlight video of every bucket made by Paige to see who guarded her. Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Goforth, 6’1”, four times; Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, two times; Davis, 6’0”, one time; Wolfenbarger, 6’5”, one time; Elllis, 6’3”, with Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Barnum, 6’2”, with Davis, 6’0”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, with Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Eaton, 6’0”, one time; and uncontested, one time.

I thought I was responding to a post by my2cents. It was Alydar. Sorry.

 

[HGN]

The only problem I see with Paige is that we only have one(1) of her.

Now if we had about 3 or 4 of her , maybe one 6'5 , and one about 6'2, there would be no need for a thread like this.

 

[Jackcatscal]

I just finally watched the replay of the AK game. After the talk in some threads about how competitive the Uconn second five could be against good teams, I think, as of now, the answer is clear - not very. It goes without saying that without Paige we would have lost this game. Aside from Paige no one stood out or looked better than the AK players. CW was ok, Evina was ok. The rest...somewhere south of ok. All in all a team not ranked in the top 25 looked as good as we were - except for Paige.

AK sure did get to the rim a lot, really a lot, and not because they were really quick. The driving lanes were huge and usually no one in the paint closed up to compensate for that. I've be high on AE, but her just allowing lay-ups to avoid fouls is inexcusable. Maybe if she was dominating the boards and scoring a lot giving up a few baskets to stay on the floor is ok. That was not the case here.

Other than Paige (I'm forced to say that again and again) the offense had no pizazz and the defense was barely adequate. No scoring runs, no steals leading to lay-ups, no stretches where it was clear we were the better team. Sure, it is early yet and there is a lot of basketball to be played but a whole lot more players are going to have to step it up and soon. I love watching Paige, but if it is the Paige show too often the rest of the team is doing something wrong.

I think AK is Alaska.

 

[JoePgh]

. .. No scoring runs, no steals leading to lay-ups, no stretches where it was clear we were the better team.

What about the 17-2 scoring run to start the game, to which Paige contributed 0 points?

For the game as a whole, UConn was 37-for-65 on field goal attempts, and Paige was 15-for-19. So the rest of the team was 22-for-46, or just under 50%. I don't think that is too shabby.

I didn't see any serious problems with the offense at all. There were several minor things -- no one except Evina could hit 3's, there were too many traveling violations, and Nika never got untracked offensively. But those really are minor problems, easily sorted out with game experience -- probably even without focusing on them in practice.

The whole problem Sunday was with defense, and more specifically defense against penetration. UConn did largely shut down Arkansas's outside shooting, perhaps in part because the Razorbacks had some early-season shooting woes of their own. And UConn got 8 steals and 5 blocks.

If Paige had not played, it would have been a close game that could have gone either way. I would like to think that Christyn and Evina would have stepped up to fill the void, and that UConn would have won anyway by single digits.

 

[Alydar]

I just registered to reply to this post.

Paige is 5’11”. If someone were six inches shorter, she would be 5’5”. My2cents, because this is short, I think you might not be serious. But I got curious about the height of Arkansas players.

I looked on the Arkansas roster page, and no player was under 5’7”. I then watched a highlight video of every bucket made by Paige to see who guarded her. Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Goforth, 6’1”, four times; Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, two times; Davis, 6’0”, one time; Wolfenbarger, 6’5”, one time; Elllis, 6’3”, with Spencer, 5’7”, one time; Barnum, 6’2”, with Davis, 6’0”, one time; Daniels, 5’8”, with Barnum, 6’2”, one time; Eaton, 6’0”, one time; and uncontested, one time.

Do you trust listed heights? I've watched Bueckers for several years and I'm fairly confident that she is over 6'. Maybe only a smidge. So I'm talking 5'6" and I'll bet that if we were to measure all 5'6" players we'd find some 5'5" and maybe shorter. Watch a replay and you will see her go up for a shot with the defender looking at her belly button. At least one Ark player who had size tried to guard her but was too slow.

As good a shot as Bueckers is going 15-19 with an assortment of mostly midrange shots requires some help from the defense and Neighbors only recruits offense.

 

[D J B]

Do you trust listed heights? I've watched Bueckers for several years and I'm fairly confident that she is over 6'. Maybe only a smidge. So I'm talking 5'6" and I'll bet that if we were to measure all 5'6" players we'd find some 5'5" and maybe shorter. Watch a replay and you will see her go up for a shot with the defender looking at her belly button. At least one Ark player who had size tried to guard her but was too slow.

As good a shot as Bueckers is going 15-19 with an assortment of mostly midrange shots requires some help from the defense and Neighbors only recruits offense.

I'll trust listed heights (even though they aren't always exact) long before I'll take the word of someone (even myself) watching replays and someone's belly button. When in a hole, as the saying goes, put the shovel down and stop digging.

 

[ballerfan]

Do you trust listed heights? I've watched Bueckers for several years and I'm fairly confident that she is over 6'. Maybe only a smidge. So I'm talking 5'6" and I'll bet that if we were to measure all 5'6" players we'd find some 5'5" and maybe shorter. Watch a replay and you will see her go up for a shot with the defender looking at her belly button. At least one Ark player who had size tried to guard her but was too slow.

As good a shot as Bueckers is going 15-19 with an assortment of mostly midrange shots requires some help from the defense and Neighbors only recruits offense.

Hi Alydar. I thought you might not have been serious, but you are.

Yes, I generally trust listed height, although there are examples of players lying in the past. If you look at photos of Paige and Azzi standing next to each other, they are roughly the same height. They are both listed as 5’11”. Are they and the team lying? Paige, in fact, might be 5’10.5” or 5’11.5” or even 6’, I guess, but an inch is not much, and there is no way to see an inch of difference while watching Paige playing on TV.

So let’s say you are talking about 5’6”. Most of the Arkansas players guarding Paige are listed between 6’ and 6’5”. You are proposing that Paige is taller than her listed height and that Arkansas players are at least four to nine inches shorter than their listed height. If you look at Paige standing next to Arkansas players (there are photos on Google), you’ll see that what you are saying is not true.

I trust you are making your argument in good faith, and as a longtime reader of the BY, I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts. But I wonder why you are saying something so obviously untrue. Here you are trying to diminish Paige’s performance, adding an additional point in your last post that “one Ark player who had size tried to guard her but was too slow.” But in an earlier post you defend Azzi’s lackluster performance in the same game.

 

[ballerfan]

Hi Alydar. I thought you might not have been serious, but you are.

Yes, I generally trust listed height, although there are examples of players lying in the past. If you look at photos of Paige and Azzi standing next to each other, they are roughly the same height. They are both listed as 5’11”. Are they and the team lying? Paige, in fact, might be 5’10.5” or 5’11.5” or even 6’, I guess, but an inch is not much, and there is no way to see an inch of difference while watching Paige playing on TV.

So let’s say you are talking about 5’6”. Most of the Arkansas players guarding Paige are listed between 6’ and 6’5”. You are proposing that Paige is taller than her listed height and that Arkansas players are at least four to nine inches shorter than their listed height. If you look at Paige standing next to Arkansas players (there are photos on Google), you’ll see that what you are saying is not true.

I trust you are making your argument in good faith, and as a longtime reader of the BY, I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts. But I wonder why you are saying something so obviously untrue. Here you are trying to diminish Paige’s performance, adding an additional point in your last post that “one Ark player who had size tried to guard her but was too slow.” But in an earlier post you defend Azzi’s lackluster performance in the same game.

One correction. Alydar, you are proposing that Arkansas players are at least six to eleven inches shorter than their listed height. I need to proof my comments before posting them.

 

[fan4eva]

the only problem with Paige is that if Geno keeps playing her for 40 minutes every game she will be worn down to a nub in short order

Really so we're going to start load managing college basketball players now kids who are 18-20 years old who can run and play all day. I can see if they were coming off a severe injury and needed to come back slowly but let's not turn this into the NBA what are doing protecting Paige so she still collect her NIL money? while we're at it we better start load managing Azzi as well and how will this play out in March rest Paige for the Semis so she can play the Championship game if we win or vice versa play the semis but sit for the chip game...please Paige can play 40 min a game especially when the next game is a week away. Stop babying and pampering these athletes

 

[Willowglen]

Paige has the best midrange game of any college player I have seen. Geno quite sensibly runs the offense around her mid range game, with other players setting screens or double screens for her. It is sublime how automatic she is from 10 to 15 feet.

The key is to get other Husky players to react to opposing defenses, which will have 3 to 4 defenders fixate on Paige - understandably so. Christyn Williams reacted to the defense overplaying with an easy bolt to the basket with a layup - and other players will need to do this as well. Williams is the rare ambidextrous player (meaning her off hand is still a quality shot). Her focus should be on those driving layups - they will be there given the triple teams on Paige. And Williams’ ability to score from either side of the basket at the very last moment will break defenses. It doesn’t really matter how much Paige scores. The fact that the opposing team can’t defend her mid range game - and even 6 “5 players can’t do it - is just a huge advantage for UConn. I would think the other talented players on the team will begin to habituate to her dominance, and accordingly it is too early to draw conclusions about future play - except that there is no player in college basketball anyone would want more on their team than Paige. Basketball is a numbers game - and Paige turns all the percentages in her team’s direction.

Fudd could be incredibly effective in hitting outside shots at the right time - more important than stats. In frustration, teams are going to pack defenses inside tighter than a drum. Opportune 3 pointers can make for dominance on the mental side of the game.

I suspect that all of this causes Auriemma to really drive the defense up several notches. This is hard to do when you know you can score at relative will, but this is why a Hall of Fame coach matters.

You never know, but watching this team this year has a different feel. I don’t have the same perception watching South Carolina or Stanford, for example.

This puts a different spin too, on a player like Nike’s Muhl. If she plays great defense, and sets picks and screens, it may make a lot of sense to play her more- there is no lack of offensive talent on the team.

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm waiting for the full mixing/jelling together of this TEAM: i.e. when Geno
has all the gears smoothly working on both Offense and Defense.
The team we see now is only a shadow of what will be
revealed ( by Geno ) over the next few months.
"E" is SO SMOOTH, Christyn is a FORCE and
ONO and Dorka ( with some balancing from A. Edwards)
are the crown jewels of the forecourt!

 

[Rixxx]

Alydar, I noticed the same thing you did about Paige's shot I'll say from the paint. She elevated 100%, her shooting arm was also extended 100%. She flicked the ball towards the rim with her finger tips for an easy score. Someone on this board said Wilt couldn't block this shot.

 

[D J B]

The shot you're talking about is a teardrop floater. The arc of the ball is very high, and the delivery is very soft. Hard to truly master, but once mastered, it's almost impossible to defend. Oversimplifying a bit, but think of it as a blend between a layup and a jump shot.

 

[Alydar]

Hi Alydar. I thought you might not have been serious, but you are.

Yes, I generally trust listed height, although there are examples of players lying in the past. If you look at photos of Paige and Azzi standing next to each other, they are roughly the same height. They are both listed as 5’11”. Are they and the team lying? Paige, in fact, might be 5’10.5” or 5’11.5” or even 6’, I guess, but an inch is not much, and there is no way to see an inch of difference while watching Paige playing on TV.

So let’s say you are talking about 5’6”. Most of the Arkansas players guarding Paige are listed between 6’ and 6’5”. You are proposing that Paige is taller than her listed height and that Arkansas players are at least four to nine inches shorter than their listed height. If you look at Paige standing next to Arkansas players (there are photos on Google), you’ll see that what you are saying is not true.

I trust you are making your argument in good faith, and as a longtime reader of the BY, I appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts. But I wonder why you are saying something so obviously untrue. Here you are trying to diminish Paige’s performance, adding an additional point in your last post that “one Ark player who had size tried to guard her but was too slow.” But in an earlier post you defend Azzi’s lackluster performance in the same game.

So let’s say you are talking about 5’6”. Most of the Arkansas players guarding Paige are listed between 6’ and 6’5”.

I've watched the replay twice. There was an attempt to cover Bueckers with lots of players and some were over 6' but I see many many plays when she is covered by a munchkin. Now I haven't counted them but my impression the entire game was that Bueckers had a sizable size advantage that she exploited. The only 6'5" player for Ark is Wolfenbarger and I'm pretty sure she was never assigned to guard Bueckers.
If you want to know who is taller on UConn you need to see them line up for the anthem. TRhey always line up according to height. Nurse was always listed as 6' and Gabby Williams 5'11" on the roster but in line Williams was always on the taller side of Nurse.

And finally, if Bueckers was guarded by players 6'2"-6'5" then they must have 2" verticals because when Bueckers went up she had her head and shoulders clear. Often.

 

[ballerfan]

I've watched the replay twice. There was an attempt to cover Bueckers with lots of players and some were over 6' but I see many many plays when she is covered by a munchkin. Now I haven't counted them but my impression the entire game was that Bueckers had a sizable size advantage that she exploited. The only 6'5" player for Ark is Wolfenbarger and I'm pretty sure she was never assigned to guard Bueckers.
If you want to know who is taller on UConn you need to see them line up for the anthem. TRhey always line up according to height. Nurse was always listed as 6' and Gabby Williams 5'11" on the roster but in line Williams was always on the taller side of Nurse.

And finally, if Bueckers was guarded by players 6'2"-6'5" then they must have 2" verticals because when Bueckers went up she had her head and shoulders clear. Often.

Hi again. Thanks for your additional thoughts. We are both posting on a UConn board, so we probably agree on many other things. Wishing you a happy rest of the day.

 

[MSGRET]

I've watched the replay twice. There was an attempt to cover Bueckers with lots of players and some were over 6' but I see many many plays when she is covered by a munchkin. Now I haven't counted them but my impression the entire game was that Bueckers had a sizable size advantage that she exploited. The only 6'5" player for Ark is Wolfenbarger and I'm pretty sure she was never assigned to guard Bueckers.
If you want to know who is taller on UConn you need to see them line up for the anthem. TRhey always line up according to height. Nurse was always listed as 6' and Gabby Williams 5'11" on the roster but in line Williams was always on the taller side of Nurse.

And finally, if Bueckers was guarded by players 6'2"-6'5" then they must have 2" verticals because when Bueckers went up she had her head and shoulders clear. Often.

You do know that there is a video of Paige dunking in one of Curry's basketball camps? She barely got her fingers over the rim, but does push the ball in for a dunk.

 

[ballerfan]

You do know that there is a video of Paige dunking in one of Curry's basketball camps? She barely got her fingers over the rim, but does push the ball in for a dunk.

 

[MSGRET]

I've watched the replay twice. There was an attempt to cover Bueckers with lots of players and some were over 6' but I see many many plays when she is covered by a munchkin. Now I haven't counted them but my impression the entire game was that Bueckers had a sizable size advantage that she exploited. The only 6'5" player for Ark is Wolfenbarger and I'm pretty sure she was never assigned to guard Bueckers.
If you want to know who is taller on UConn you need to see them line up for the anthem. TRhey always line up according to height. Nurse was always listed as 6' and Gabby Williams 5'11" on the roster but in line Williams was always on the taller side of Nurse.

And finally, if Bueckers was guarded by players 6'2"-6'5" then they must have 2" verticals because when Bueckers went up she had her head and shoulders clear. Often.

Here is another one of Paige dunking, it's around the 7 minute mark.

 

[Alydar]

You do know that there is a video of Paige dunking in one of Curry's basketball camps? She barely got her fingers over the rim, but does push the ball in for a dunk.

yeah, I've seen that one and another in a "challenge" video. But I don't call those dunks.

I'm not questioning her athleticism. I think her elevation is a huge asset for her in that she can get her shot off almost anytime she wants.

 

[Zinethar]

Wrist above the rim. That is a dunk - not a lot of speed run up either. The girl has hops.

 

[cohenzone]

C tge shooters inbestI dont think we as fans are too harshly judging Paige's teammates relative to her unnatural abilities. It seems most of us were able to see that CW and Evina had very good games in general and others had decent games. No one is seriously expecting a second Paige to emerge (at lest for a while)

I do think that playing with Paige can lead to others waiting around / watching Paige to do her thing too much especially in a game where she is locked in. I recall E had an open 12 ft shot near the FT line but hesitated and pushed it back to Paige to probably reset at the top of the key. And what did Paige do, in the blink of an eye, she knifed to the basket with on of her 1 handed floaters.

Paige is often our security blanket and others have to fight the urge to just pass it back to Paige to reset

The funny thing is that GA pretty much wants the other players to be sure they are taking really good shots if it isn’t Paige shooting. He’s mentioned more than once players forgetting she’s the best player and one of the best scorers in the country. it's a pretty fine line especially with some other capable scorers on the floor . He certainly encourages CW to be aggressive.

 

[jchusky]

Here is another one of Paige dunking, it's around the 7 minute mark.

dunk on a tinker toys rim doesn't count, same with the Curry video. A "tip in" is now a dunk? loll we really reaching now.

 

[ballerfan]

yeah, I've seen that one and another in a "challenge" video. But I don't call those dunks.

I'm not questioning her athleticism. I think her elevation is a huge asset for her in that she can get her shot off almost anytime she wants.

The title is clickbait. It’s not a dunk. But still not bad. We’ll have to wait for Ayanna Patterson next year.