The PG situation seems clear going forward | Page 2 | The Boneyard

The PG situation seems clear going forward

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XLCenterFan said:
Ok, I'll give you that.

But if he gets 10 minutes next game, and produces his usual nada, I want you to apologize.
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Give him the 27 minutes Adams played today and I guarantee he produces more. 10 minutes with a short leash, getting yanked after 1 mistake won’t prove anything.
 
lange10 said:
Give him the 27 minutes Adams played today and I guarantee he produces more. 10 minutes with a short leash, getting yanked after 1 mistake won’t prove anything.
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OK, you sold me. You're right, if no one else is going to produce, give the kid some run and see what happens.
 
superjohn said:
The defensive side of the ball is good and will become great I think. Cole needs to reeled in offensively and Gaffney needs to be pulled out of his shell offensively.
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I think we need a few baby steps. Just running a Solid break would be nice. I don't think thats asking much. That layup Gaff missed late should of been a layup for someone. Getting a well run break out of the pg is a reasonable request which probably wins today's game. Against a solid team.

I think asking Bouk to score most of our points and run the offense is unreasonable. The two pgs need to play better. Not even that much better. That's the plan. Its a good plan. I have faith.
 
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BigErnMcCracken said:
Gaffney and Adams took inexplicably horrendous shots on consecutive possessions with about 5:30 left to go and Creighton scored both times.
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Yeah. I really don’t want to see those two shooting much at all. Can’t wait till Jackson is ready
 
lange10 said:
The problem with Gaffney is he literally refuses to look for his own shot. Regardless of if he can make them or not you don't even need to worry about him as an offensive threat if you're game planning against us right now.

Martin was in the same category today. He only looks to score in transition, otherwise he's a flag pole.
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Gaffney put up 8 shots (though he only made 1 FG), 3rd most on the team after Bouknight and Cole. Martin is a good athlete and defender, but he was only 1 for 5 from the field and the only made basket was the dunk off the pass from Sanogo. He should not be shooting and some of his 35 minutes played should have gone to Jackson who only played 5.
 
lange10 said:
] I think he has as good a shot as anyone on our team to be our consistent #2 guy.
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No. He is a good all round player but hes not a big scorer. Put backs and in the open floor is where he can get his and the occassional open 3 is ok.
 
I'd also add that Cole and Gaff are not turnover machines. So they don't the ball over much and they both play solid D. That's 2 guys with a solid base of pg skills. Just one of them needs to improve offensively. Not both. The one who does will get the bulk of the minutes. Statistically the odds are favorable for us.
 
Okafour rings said:
Gaffney put up 8 shots (though he only made 1 FG), 3rd most on the team after Bouknight and Cole. Martin is a good athlete and defender, but he was only 1 for 5 from the field and the only made basket was the dunk off the pass from Sanogo. He should not be shooting and soem of his 35 minutes played should have gone to Jackson who only played 5.
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Without having looked at the box score that's pretty shocking to me that he took 8 shots. If he's going to be playing 25+ minutes he needs to be attempting 6-7 FG's/game.

Martin rebounded really well and has shown that is a strength of his. Hurley is quite enamored with Adams and I'm not quite sure why. Martin's minutes are justified in my opinion, however, I do not think Adams are.
 
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uconngb said:
I agree w this. Not sure I understand the love affair w Jackson. He is a complete non factor on offense. I mean COMPLETE. RJ at least hits a shot once in a while, Gaffney can drive. With Jackson, we are 4 on 5 on offense. And we’re a team that’s already offensively challenged.
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When given a chance to play some minutes in the opener against CCSU, he had 6 assists in 19 minutes, leading the team. Today we only had NINE assists for the entire team. Jackson needs to play 12-15 minutes a game at this point of the season.
 
Okafour rings said:
When given a chance to play some minutes in the opener against CCSU, he had 6 assists in 19 minutes, leading the team. Today we only had NINE assists for the entire team. Jackson needs to play 12-15 minutes a game at this point of the season.
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That was against CCSU. Against better competition the last two games he has looked like a deer in the headlights. He is not close to ready to contribute on the offensive end at this level.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
You don't want your leading scorer bringing the ball up unless that player is a distributor too, which Bouk really isn't. If the leading scorer is a distributor, like Kemba or Shabazz, and they are as much a threat with the pass as the drive or shot, then you want the ball in their hands as much as possible.

Ray Allen is a first ballot hall of famer, but he always had Ollie or Scheffer bringing the ball up. Hamilton had KEA. Okafor and Gordon had Taliek. I like the scorer off the ball to start the offense rather than with the ball to start the offense. Whereas Chris Smith, who was a great college player, didn't have a point guard his senior year and the offense was kind of a mess.
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You do what you need to win. We need Bouk to do more than those other guys did with the ball, because our other guards are not on the Ollie, Sheffer, Taliek, or KEA level this season.

When the ball isn't in Bouk's hands, bad things happen. Late shot clock 3s by Adams or hero ball by Cole. We haven't had a season where our lead playmaker had an assist rate less than 25 (Jalen Adams in '19 had 25.5 which is lowest in KenPom era). Right now Cole is our qualifying assist rate leader at 19. What we're doing is not working. We scored under a point per possession tonight despite Bouk scoring a point per minute and 8 points in 14 mintues in the 2nd half against USC.

I'd love for Bouk to be a more traditional 2. But I want to make the tournament. Bouk has shown flashes of playmaking, and letting him do more will be better than hoping Cole can beat a Big East defender or that Gaffney will make a decisive move. He doesn't need to literally walk the ball up, but he needs to be the one making decisions with the ball for the majority of our possessions.
 
NDakotaHusky said:
I'd also add that Cole and Gaff are not turnover machines. So they don't the ball over much and they both play solid D. That's 2 guys with a solid base of pg skills. Just one of them needs to improve offensively. Not both. The one who does will get the bulk of the minutes. Statistically the odds are favorable for us.
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Gaff is not a solid defender he’s a problem on that end, both for foul issues for our big guys and easy lay ins. He constantly gets beat off the dribble creating havoc. Not sure Cole is a ton better but he was for a lot of the game yesterday but tired also. We have major issues at the PG unless Cole makes shots. Gaff doesn’t turn it over but his lack of offensive ability to get in the paint and make plays will make it easier to guard Bouk for many teams. We aren’t a very capable team on either end when Cole and Gaff share minutes and it still happened way too much again yesterday. His love affair with that is alarming.
 
mauconnfan said:
Gaff is not a solid defender he’s a problem on that end, both for foul issues for our big guys and easy lay ins. He constantly gets beat off the dribble creating havoc. Not sure Cole is a ton better but he was for a lot of the game yesterday but tired also. We have major issues at the PG unless Cole makes shots. Gaff doesn’t turn it over but his lack of offensive ability to get in the paint and make plays will make it easier to guard Bouk for many teams. We aren’t a very capable team on either end when Cole and Gaff share minutes and it still happened way too much again yesterday. His love affair with that is alarming.
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Someone shared the +- stats from yesterday. Gaff was the worst on the team. Maybe you're right. Visually I thought he did ok. But I thought the whole team did ok against their guards. Maybe I missed Gaff's bad D.
 
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NDakotaHusky said:
Someone shared the +- stats from yesterday. Gaff was the worst on the team. Maybe you're right. Visually I thought he did ok. But I thought the whole team did ok against their guards. Maybe I missed Gaff's bad D.
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The being right or close sucks, just need him to be a better player. But I'm also aware he shot awfully all last year and is still this year. He doesn't turn it over but he doesn't do much that would enable him to turn it over, although a couple times yesterday he scared the crap out of me handling in tight spots got lucky. He gets beat off the dribble too much, needs to allow more space when going out too far to defend, his feet aren't quick enough. I mean we needed that frosh to soph jump from him as we need our PGs to be better in order to make this team better. Right now it's scary but again, only 4 games in to a weird start. We will see.
 
mauconnfan said:
The being right or close sucks, just need him to be a better player. But I'm also aware he shot awfully all last year and is still this year. He doesn't turn it over but he doesn't do much that would enable him to turn it over, although a couple times yesterday he scared the crap out of me handling in tight spots got lucky. He gets beat off the dribble too much, needs to allow more space when going out too far to defend, his feet aren't quick enough. I mean we needed that frosh to soph jump from him as we need our PGs to be better in order to make this team better. Right now it's scary but again, only 4 games in to a weird start. We will see.
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I certainly agree on the sophomore jump part. We got absolutely zero. Gaff looks like the same player with a rustier shot. Did you think Gaff was so bad last year? I thought he earned a starting role and was improving. I don't keep up in the off season that much, but was a bit surprised to see Gaff get beat out by Cole. Who hasn't exactly lit it up himself.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Martin has no feel whatsoever offensively but I like when he's on the floor. He defends, he rebounds, he's good in the open court, and he has a little but of a bully in him. I'll take the offensive deficiencies for everything else he gives you. Guys that are not bringing anything to the table offensively and don't do any of the above are the issue. Not Martin.
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Agreed, and I think that is the conundrum right now in regards to Hurley trying to give Jackson more minutes. He struggles mightily with his shooting and that isn't going to change this season. Also, as Hurley described, he's totally "lost defensively". So currently, Jackson is unable to help on either end. Its too bad, in a normal season there would have been more warm-up games to help get him up to speed at least on the defensive end. With his length and athleticism it would be great to have him out there to lock up the opposition's best offensive player. But absent more cupcakes, how much can Hurley sacrifice right now? Honest question. The guy needs some burn to learn but how much risk should coach take at the moment?
 
Bottom line is Bouk scored 40 and we lost. Had the game won and blew it by not being able to make baskets once Whaley fouled out and not making 1 lousy FT.

As much as I'm getting on Cole for jacking up bricks, that didn't lose the game. It's more of a sign something needs to change long term if he can't make them or stop taking them.
 
Bouknight isn’t the PG. He‘s the facilitator. There’s a difference. Jordan was a facilitator, Larry Bird was, he’s the guy that makes the defense adjust to him, thereby creating opportunities.

This team is desperate for another one. Cole just isn’t that right now. Like Sterling Gibbs he’s an undersized scoring guard. Gaffney could be that, but he plays so slow, he’s completely gun-shy out there. This is where I don’t like Hurley’s short leash. I think Gaffney can be the guy we need with some confidence. The other guy that can do that, and one who isn’t overwhelmed by the speed of things, is Jackson. The short leash is keeping him from becoming that guy. He needs minutes. He could lead us in assists by February. God knows, nobody else is stepping up to do it so far.

Martin needs to stop acting like he’s Ray Allen and go inside and hit some people. Adams is another guy who can score inside and is instead launching these ugly 3 balls. Sanogo, Whaley, Carlton all need to receive passes in the box. We simply aren’t getting them the ball.
 
Gaff played 28 minutes, was 1-8 from the field and 0-5 from the arc. He had 3 assists and 2 TOs. His biggest contribution was 7 boards. His defense was just okay. But he did not have an impact on the game.
 
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lange10 said:
Lol c'mon now. Stop being a clown. Jackson deserves more minutes, especially when the rest of the crew isn't contributing whatsoever.
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These kids earn playing time at practice, why do so many of you assume that Jackson has earned more than he gets? His game play surely doesn't warrant anymore. It's a shame that the hype surrounding him is better than he is currently.
 
auror said:
Yeah. Hopefully the next thing that gets installed this week is counters to Bouk PnR adjustments. But we will definitely rise and fall as other guards make or miss wide open 3s. May be where Polley shows his value when he gets back.

I do like Bouk coming off screens and causing panic to the defense, too. We can definitely mix some of those in on motion or set plays. But we're both in agreement that Bouk needs to be attacking the defense with the ball in his hands as much as possible.
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The counter to the PnR defensive strategy is to have a corner player attack the rim along the baseline. That gives Bouk the third option of taking it himself, kicking it out to a shooter, or throwing the alley oop lob.
 
UCSouth said:
These kids earn playing time at practice, why do so many of you assume that Jackson has earned more than he gets? His game play surely doesn't warrant anymore. It's a shame that the hype surrounding him is better than he is currently.
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This is a tired refrain. Why was it that Whaley never saw meaningful minutes last year until injuries pressed him into action? Was he not giving 100% in practice?
 
lange10 said:
Give him the 27 minutes Adams played today and I guarantee he produces more. 10 minutes with a short leash, getting yanked after 1 mistake won’t prove anything.
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Unfortunately he'd foul out long before the 27 minutes were played.
 
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