The News Is Getting Worse At Rutgers

[oldude]

It's what happens when you value wins over character. It's not just a problem at one school or one sport. It's what happens when large amounts of money are allowed to corrupt the system as it has the NCAA.

WBB is hardly about money and the situation at Rutgers is a little more complex than simply a desire to win games.

Rutgers established programs to accept and educate economically and socially disadvantaged students going back to the early 1900’s. Perhaps the most renowned example was the son of a former slave who received an academic scholarship to Rutgers. Paul Robeson was an AA football player, Rhodes Scholar and magnificent Baritone who we might never have heard of if Rutgers hadn’t given him an opportunity.

The current problems at Rutgers are reflective of the problems with society itself. Geno has spoken frequently about the challenges in dealing with young people today vs when he was starting out, and Geno generally is dealing with the cream of the crop.

What is also different is that for many years women’s sports were immune from many of the incidents that plagued men’s sports. Over the past 10+ years there has been an unwelcome trend in women’s sports that reflects a growing problem with maturity and behavior among young women athletes that mirrors some of the problems that have plagued men’s sports for years.

While Rutgers WBB might have more than their share of problems, they are clearly not alone. Baylor, TN, TX and even UConn have had to deal with behavioral problems in recent years.

 

[CocoHusky]

It's what happens when you value wins over character. It's not just a problem at one school or one sport. It's what happens when large amounts of money are allowed to corrupt the system as it has the NCAA.

That's a very broad indictment of Coach Stringer & WCBB.
Having met and talked to coach Stringer on multiple occasions I can assure you that she is in coaching in large part for the benefit of the young ladies that come through her program. She believes in 2nd (some times third) chances in a way that that you and I might not, but to equate her values to "wins over character" is blatantly unfair. The NCAA might be considered a corrupt institution. As it relates to WCBB though where are these large sums of money?

 

['nuff sed]

That's a very broad indictment of Coach Stringer & WCBB.
Having met and talked to coach Stringer on multiple occasions I can assure you that she is in coaching in large part for the benefit of the young ladies that come through her program. She believes in 2nd (some times third) chances in a way that that you and I might not, but to equate her values to "wins over character" is blatantly unfair. The NCAA might be considered a corrupt institution; as it relates to WCBB though where are these large sums of money?

"as it relates to WCBB though where are these large sums of money? "

In terms of "life changing money" - no not there

But in comparative terms of overall salary and career advancement -- Yes

That's why men are in the WBB coaching game now

That's why you have the "cottage industry" effects of individual coaching, consultants, rating services, tournaments etc springing up around it as opposed to years ago. Sponsorships in shoes and uni's, name recognition and advertising. Branding your name.

The money is cumulative when adding up the total money in the sector. It's not mens money, but a million here, a million there and there, and all of a sudden you got big money.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Yes. Though, she seemed to have an attitude problem sometimes. She must have did something bad to go straight to dismissal.

It wasn't straight to dismissal: she was suspended for 10 games at the beginning of the year for the same issue. It's all in the article.

 

[vtcwbuff]

A couple of unanswered questions here. Of course all of us nosy people want to know why the players were dismissed but in my opinion not very important. However, I wonder if CVS' LOA is directly related to their dismissal or just a coincidence. Were they dismissed over her objections? Was she willing to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance only to be overruled by the AD? Is "exhaustion" a cover for her absence?

 

[NewCorn]

perhaps Ms Davenport might have second thoughts about Rutgers with all of this turmoil.......

Perhaps, but where could she go? Who needs a 6'4" post? Hmm....

 

[Charliebball]

Perhaps, but where could she go? Who needs a 6'4" post? Hmm....[/QUOTE

ummmmm..............no comment...............

 

[Coler]

It wasn't straight to dismissal: she was suspended for 10 games at the beginning of the year for the same issue. It's all in the article. View attachment 40173

Yes, it had slipped my mind that she was suspended the first 10 games. So she should have known better.

 

[ScarlettB]

A couple of unanswered questions here. Of course all of us nosy people want to know why the players were dismissed but in my opinion not very important. However, I wonder if CVS' LOA is directly related to their dismissal or just a coincidence. Were they dismissed over her objections? Was she willing to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance only to be overruled by the AD? Is "exhaustion" a cover for her absence?

From what I know of the relationship between CVS and Pat Hobbs, I would say the answer is no. I could see part of Vivian's exhaustion coming from having to deal with the problems these two young women have caused for her team this season, but I do not believe the AD would force her to dismiss the students if she didn't feel she needed to. In Caitlin's case, the university may have a policy as to what happens if a student is convicted or pleads guilty to criminal charges, I know at some schools it is a mandatory loss of scholarship, but as for whatever CC's issue was, it was stated that it was not criminal, so I am quite sure the disciplinary action is at the Coach's discretion.

 

[BroadwayVa]

WBB is hardly about money and the situation at Rutgers is a little more complex than simply a desire to win games.

Rutgers established programs to accept and educate economically and socially disadvantaged students going back to the early 1900’s. Perhaps the most renowned example was the son of a former slave who received an academic scholarship to Rutgers. Paul Robeson was an AA football player, Rhodes Scholar and magnificent Baritone who we might never have heard of if Rutgers hadn’t given him an opportunity.

The current problems at Rutgers are reflective of the problems with society itself. Geno has spoken frequently about the challenges in dealing with young people today vs when he was starting out, and Geno generally is dealing with the cream of the crop.

What is also different is that for many years women’s sports were immune from many of the incidents that plagued men’s sports. Over the past 10+ years there has been an unwelcome trend in women’s sports that reflects a growing problem with maturity and behavior among young women athletes that mirrors some of the problems that have plagued men’s sports for years.

While Rutgers WBB might have more than their share of problems, they are clearly not alone. Baylor, TN, TX and even UConn have had to deal with behavioral problems in recent years.

You missed two of RU's greatest graduates JKillmer and C. Dailey.

 

[willtalk]

It only makes sense that a program that runs a more free wheeling and less structured basketball offense would also attract the type of player who would reflect that tendency in their personal life as well. Kudo's to Stringer for her efforts she makes to help that type of player, but it also comes with certain consequences. It is hard to walk a tight rope of running a top D1 program while attempting to be a social worker with your players.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Has any Husky been "dismissed from the team for violating team rules?" I know that some have been asked to request a transfer but I can't remember any disciplinary dismissals.

 

[JoePgh]

Has any Husky been "dismissed from the team for violating team rules?" I know that some have been asked to request a transfer but I can't remember any disciplinary dismissals.

Do you remember Kristin Phillips? That goes a long way back into history, but I think it is such a case. And if the rumors are true, then AEH was a similar case.

 

[UConnCat]

Do you remember Kristin Phillips? That goes a long way back into history, but I think it is such a case. And if the rumors are true, then AEH was a similar case.

Kristen Phillips was pretty much asked to leave the program but it had nothing to do with violating team rules. Her issues were about effort and failing to meet the demands of the program. Andi apparently did violate some team rules but I don't think she was actually dismissed from the team. She was encouraged to move on and she did.

 

[Yorkeez4]

I live in NJ and have never been a fan of CVS - possibly because of the way her team played UConn. That said I think she works really hard to give young ladies, who may not have had the best guidance, a chance to participate in a high level program. Generally speaking she has not attracted the very top talent and part if her taking on what some would term high risk cases may be to improve her teams chances on the floor but I truly believe the overwhelming reason is her compassion and desire to help these young women.

 

[DEpup]

Yup, seeing that there are consequences to bad actions is a terrible environment for a kid.

I think you took my post completely wrong. If I'm a parent with a good kid whose already been screwed over by the system, why would I want to then place my child into a possible war zone where kids are acting up and getting suspended and dismissed. Not exactly an environment for an 18 year old a few hundred miles away from home. I think if I was that parent, I'd advise my child to find a more positive team environment since she has her pick of any school. I have no issue with discipline.

 

['nuff sed]

Kristen Phillips was pretty much asked to leave the program but it had nothing to do with violating team rules. Her issues were about effort and failing to meet the demands of the program. Andi apparently did violate some team rules but I don't think she was actually dismissed from the team. She was encouraged to move on and she did.

Kristen’s side

It’s always said —- it’s not for everybody

Ex-UConn Player Kristen Phillips Talks About How Tough It Is In Storrs

 

[Vowelguy]

I think you took my post completely wrong..

Nope I took your post 100% correctly.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Kristen’s side

It’s always said —- it’s not for everybody

Ex-UConn Player Kristen Phillips Talks About How Tough It Is In Storrs

Poor kid. She notes things going on on "and off the court" more than once. Too bad. Sounds like she was dealing with big emotional and family problems. Really sad to see any kid struggle like this.

 

['nuff sed]

Poor kid. She notes things going on on "and off the court" more than once. Too bad. Sounds like she was dealing with big emotional and family problems. Really sad to see any kid struggle like this.

I don't think so. I think she was referring to the "team family" environment extends off the court. Sounds more to me she was describing herself feeling like an adopted kid integrating into an existing family -- its the system she couldnt get into, not the basketball.

I don't assign blame for failure to anyone -- its a blameless situation -- sometime's you just don't fit somewhere.

But the recruiting critics don't take "the system" into account --- its not the game, its the system that produces "the game". If a kid doesn't want it, or doesn't fit into it, she doesn't belong here. Most critics of recruitment here on the BY evaluate on BB skills and team needs alone. There is also some sentiment expressed that the system should change (Geno/CD), but I am not an advocate of that.

CVS's outlook is completely different from that. It is difficult for folks that haven't seen the situation that some of these kids come from to understand. There is a different value system there. Forgiveness with 2nd chances come by right, and immediately, with a very low, or nonexistence, of the need to see a substantial change in behavior before those opportunities are re-extended. Or a reliance on God is expressed instead of an adoption of personal responsibility. Read Morris's tweet when she announced she was going to Rutgers....no personal responsibility, its all put off on God. You can here this almost every day in local school board meetings, police commission meetings, any sentencing hearing in court --- some iteration of God forgives, so we all should.

It's all fine, it sometimes works - until it doesn't - like when your 3 time offender ties up her room mate and beats her and gets carted off to jail -- and then the general public gets a view into that world, -- and is abhorred by it. --- And the "Thug U" tag gets put on you -- CVS is a hero in the hood , not so much to suburban whites --- neither side understands the other

 

[DefenseBB]

While I laud CVS for what she has done over her career in guiding her players both on the court and even more so off the court, some times she takes on more than she’s really capable off being successful at. She is 70, has her own health issues and while noble to take on women who are in need of guidance, she is doing a disservice to the other 10/11/12 women and the other 3 coaches on the team by spending energy on players who refuse to get it vs. focusing on the players who do follow the rules. Taking on Alexis Morris, while noble is not a good plan if you already had some players that were struggling with your guidance (as seems to be the case due to these dismissals with prior infractions). Morris was officially booted off of Baylor for another violation of rules (2nd known) so she couldn’t follow Kim’s mandate for coming back. Now CVS who already has “problem team members” is adding to the woes. This is not fair to her good team members or her incoming class. The old saying “it takes one bad apple to ruin the bunch” and this sounds like she already has some “questionable” apples. Again, I laud her career of doing this but at 70, not the best process to continue.
Wishing for the best, but preparing for the inevitable.

 

[cabbie191]

I recall some articles in the Courant from a few years back on how much Jim Calhoun tried to help troubled kids turn their lives around while at UConn. I’m pretty certain he and CVS aren’t the only ones with this mindset.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I don't think so. I think she was referring to the "team family" environment extends off the court. Sounds more to me she was describing herself feeling like an adopted kid integrating into an existing family -- its the system she couldnt get into, not the basketball.

I don't assign blame for failure to anyone -- its a blameless situation -- sometime's you just don't fit somewhere.

But the recruiting critics don't take "the system" into account --- its not the game, its the system that produces "the game". If a kid doesn't want it, or doesn't fit into it, she doesn't belong here. Most critics of recruitment here on the BY evaluate on BB skills and team needs alone. There is also some sentiment expressed that the system should change (Geno/CD), but I am not an advocate of that.

CVS's outlook is completely different from that. It is difficult for folks that haven't seen the situation that some of these kids come from to understand. There is a different value system there. Forgiveness with 2nd chances come by right, and immediately, with a very low, or nonexistence, of the need to see a substantial change in behavior before those opportunities are re-extended. Or a reliance on God is expressed instead of an adoption of personal responsibility. Read Morris's tweet when she announced she was going to Rutgers....no personal responsibility, its all put off on God. You can here this almost every day in local school board meetings, police commission meetings, any sentencing hearing in court --- some iteration of God forgives, so we all should.

It's all fine, it sometimes works - until it doesn't - like when your 3 time offender ties up her room mate and beats her and gets carted off to jail -- and then the general public gets a view into that world, -- and is abhorred by it. --- And the "Thug U" tag gets put on you -- CVS is a hero in the hood , not so much to suburban whites --- neither side understands the other

While you are right about some of what you say, you clearly don't really have much insight into CVS. While she may believe most folks deserve second chances - actually, so do I from a completely different environment - she does not believe second chances are a "right". They have to be earned - by saying of doing the right things. If Morris didn't say she behaved wrongly to CVS and took responsibility for 2 legal violations that resulted in arrests - then I believe she would not be allowed to join Rutgers. I was around Vivian a lot, as much as any general fan would be, and while she "plays" a bit flaky, I also was around her when push came to shove and she is not a push-over I can assure you.

 

['nuff sed]

While you are right about some of what you say, you clearly don't really have much insight into CVS. While she may believe most folks deserve second chances - actually, so do I from a completely different environment - she does not believe second chances are a "right". They have to be earned - by saying of doing the right things. If Morris didn't say she behaved wrongly to CVS and took responsibility for 2 legal violations that resulted in arrests - then I believe she would not be allowed to join Rutgers. I was around Vivian a lot, as much as any general fan would be, and while she "plays" a bit flaky, I also was around her when push came to shove and she is not a push-over I can assure you.

You prove my point

ahhh - my point is saying is enough -

Morris said the right things before - which resulted in a path back onto the Baylor team.

Her word is proven to be no good.

Repeating the behavior within a very short time resulted in her dismissal.

Now, you “assure” me “that if Morris didn’t say .....”

So CVS gives a 3rd chance - to someone who has not demonstrated that she is capable of keeping her word.

Do you see now ?
[ ]

 

[CocoHusky]

You prove my point
ahhh - my point is saying is enough -
Morris said the right things before - which resulted in a path back onto the Baylor team.
Her word is proven to be no good.
Repeating the behavior within a very short time resulted in her dismissal.
Now, you “assure” me “that if Morris didn’t say .....”
So CVS gives a 3rd chance - to someone who has not demonstrated that she is capable of keeping her word.
Do you see now ?
It’s a philosophy of forgiveness without penance . She believes that. It’s the value system she lives in. It’s straight Al Sharpton.

Love the twisted logic here! @KnightBridgeAZ is not proving your point he has stated "you clearly don't really have much insight into CVS". As long as you continue to gloss over those points I'll do my best to try and ignore your tired, unnecessary, race baiting, references to the Ghetto and Al Sharpton as it relates to the Rutgers WCBB program.

 

['nuff sed]

Love the twisted logic here! @KnightBridgeAZ is not proving your point he has stated "you clearly don't really have much insight into CVS". As long as you continue to gloss over those points I'll do my best to try and ignore your tired, unnecessary, race baiting, references to the Ghetto and Al Sharpton as it relates to the Rutgers WCBB program.

that wasn't baiting........there are different value systems -- not arguing right or wrong --- or better or worse

I do not know CVS...that's not a gloss over.

But CVS, by her own actions, expresses something..... and that something, whatever it is, is decidedly different than what you see in other institutions.....Rutgers is open to some players that would not have an opportunity at other institutions........that cannot be denied.....that is the gloss over.....I am also not arguing whether those admissions are a benefit to the program or not.... I am not Imus, nor am I Mushnick.

You can ignore what you like, but the issues will still be there. Seriously unacceptable behavior by players, like assault, will continue and accelerate as long as there is no penalty involved. Having to transfer is not a penalty.

You also cannot deny that attitudes over race, women, and sexual orientation, are all over this sport, and all generate their own headwinds to growth. That is reality, ignoring it and glossing it over helps nobody in the long run.

 

[Carnac]

Stringer won't return to Rutgers for NCAAs -
Rutgers women's basketball coach C. Vivian Stringer, who has been on sick leave since Feb. 24, will not be returning for the NCAA tournament as she had initially planned.
Rutgers announced Thursday that Stringer was advised by her doctors to continue to rest to achieve full recovery. The Scarlet Knights, 22-9 overall and 13-5 in the Big Ten, advanced to the semifinals of the league tournament and are expected to get an NCAA tournament at-large bid.

[Story]

 

[CL82]

Does this not ring true with anyone else. We had the issue with her player then the non-specific health issue. Something just feels off.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Does this not ring true with anyone else. We had the issue with her player then the non-specific health issue. Something just feels off.

If you read the entire story (or at least the article I did) the AD was quite supportive and it is stated that she will return "later in the year".

Not noted here on the BY, but covered on the RU board, charges were dropped against the player (that was arrested, Caitlan Jenkins (sp?) that was dismissed from the team. As was pointed out on the RU board, that doesn't mean that she didn't (or did) whatever she was exactly accused of (Criminal Mischief and Domestic Abuse), but she wasn't expelled, just dismissed from the Basketball program. She is continuing in school and going to attempt the WNBA.

As someone also pointed out, these days the accusation of "domestic abuse" is pretty much across the board a lose / lose situation regardless of what becomes of the situation. Had Rutgers not dismissed her from the program they would have been accused of condoning domestic abuse.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Kristen’s side

It’s always said —- it’s not for everybody

Ex-UConn Player Kristen Phillips Talks About How Tough It Is In Storrs

Different people are motivated in different ways, finding the way is sometimes difficult because we just do not walk in other’s shoes. It takes a special skill to motivate kids but once you do the reward is worth the effort. I know I was one of those hard to motivate kids and a special person took the time to help me see I COULD DO IT!