The Demise of the Sox

[60'sfan]

I don't know whether Cherington has been told not to spend any money or he has created this mess himself. After a disastrous September, almost everything the Sox have done in the off-season has been a joke. Their starting pitching is the worst in all of baseball. Their hitting is non-existence except for Ortiz, Pedoria and Sweeney. Their defense has been very bad. The bull pen is in disarray. They have a "who are these guys?" outfield and a utility man at short. Now they are thinking about acquiring the 34 year old Marlon Byrd from the Cubs. He is hitting .070 and will fit right in.

Is it possible that Varitek was in fact the key to the Sox pitching success? I know we have argued that back and forth but how else to we explain all of this?

 

[Danzz]

I don't know whether Cherington has been told not to spend any money or he has created this mess himself. After a disastrous September, almost everything the Sox have done in the off-season has been a joke. Their starting pitching is the worst in all of baseball. Their hitting is non-existence except for Ortiz, Pedoria and Sweeney. Their defense has been very bad. The bull pen is in disarray. They have a "who are these guys?" outfield and a utility man at short. Now they are thinking about acquiring the 34 year old Marlon Byrd from the Cubs. He is hitting .070 and will fit right in.

Is it possible that Varitek was in fact the key to the Sox pitching success? I know we have argued that back and forth but how else to we explain all of this?

They scored 9 runs and lost. The Sox have enough offense and starting pitching.Byrd is better than Repko and he used to hit about .275 without much power until this year. Maybe he will help, maybe not. Two allstar outfielders are injured and that is why you have nonames.
The problem isn't just middle relief, it is the entire bullpen.

 

[zyron]

The problem isn't just middle relief, it is the entire bullpen.

They may have the worst bullpen in baseball. Enjoy.

 

[mauconnfan]

They scored 9 runs and lost. The Sox have enough offense and starting pitching.Byrd is better than Repko and he used to hit about .275 without much power until this year. Maybe he will help, maybe not. Two allstar outfielders are injured and that is why you have nonames.
The problem isn't just middle relief, it is the entire bullpen.

Byrds offense suffered much like many others when players began to be tested.......don't expect the same player from the past!! But you never know seems like some have found a "way around it" anyhow!! lol

 

[doggydaddy]

They slapped around Garcia and that means they have a good enough offense?

2-4 are good with Pedroia, Gonzoles, Ortiz. With the quickly aging Youk, and everyone else just not good, it's not a good offense. Like most teams, they will feast on bad pitching.

And with Byrd, the 2012 payroll is at 181 million.

 

[NHUConnfan]

They may have the worst bullpen in baseball. Enjoy.

Yep. The Red Sox really have never been able to put together a good bullpen. It's hard to remember when they had a really really solid bullpen. Usually closer wasn't an issue (since the closer by committee), but there were always question marks about the other pitchers. Management has never done a good job at evaluating relief talent and it's really been frustrating because the offense usually has been there.

Not sure what they can do at this point about it.

 

[Brochacho]

Sign Oswalt, make Bard closer, get Bailey healthy, and then.... I don't know. They are power screwed.

 

[sinkhole]

Yep. The Red Sox really have never been able to put together a good bullpen. It's hard to remember when they had a really really solid bullpen. Usually closer wasn't an issue (since the closer by committee), but there were always question marks about the other pitchers. Management has never done a good job at evaluating relief talent and it's really been frustrating because the offense usually has been there.

Not sure what they can do at this point about it.

The Red Sox had a really solid bullpen in 2011.

 

[Waquoit]

This mess is all on the owners. But it seems they were pretty sharp about hiring Bobby V. He's taking the year for their sins.

 

[NHUConnfan]

The Red Sox had a really solid bullpen in 2011.

I think it was more lucky than solid. Almost all of the pitchers performed above expectations. I doubt the same bullpen would have as close to a good year as they did last year.

 

[dsturdy5]

I'm not sure where to lay the blame but there is plenty to go around.

The players are acting like spoiled brats...mostly a carryover from last year's debacle. Aside from Pedroia, Ortiz, and Lester, has anyone stepped up and said that last fall was their fault? More so, who is standing up and not making excuses to start this year?

The manager is trying to be the anti-Tito. I get not wanting to recreate what happened last year but sometimes when you try too hard, it doesn't work either. You have to find the happy medium.

The ownership has already strong armed the GM into hiring Valentine and they spent more than 4x the cash on their soccer team as they did on their baseball team this past offseason. The same baseball team who had an historic collapse. Yes, they didn't need any overhauling...


Over all it has been an extremely frustrating two weeks so far and my only hope is that a healthy team can make some amends this summer...but will it be too late? Still two plus weeks for Crawford, Elsbury is out for God knows how long, Dice K is looking like mid-May, Bailey is July at some point...

When does NFL training camp start?

 

[60'sfan]

They scored 9 runs and lost. The Sox have enough offense and starting pitching.Byrd is better than Repko and he used to hit about .275 without much power until this year. Maybe he will help, maybe not. Two allstar outfielders are injured and that is why you have nonames.
The problem isn't just middle relief, it is the entire bullpen.

I don't agree that based on their scoring 9 runs yesterday that they have enough offense. They are weak offensively at third, short, catcher and all three outfield positions. Saying that Byrd is better than Repko is like saying that cancer is better than aids. Byrd is so bad that the struggling Chicago Cubs were ready to release him. Theo got us again. We gave up Michael Bowden, who might have been able to help in the bullpen, plus a player to be named later for an over-the-hill 34 year-old outfielder.
Finally, do you really think they have enough starting pitching? I think they are last or next to last in starter's ERA.

As for the all-star outfielders, I don't know when Crawford is coming back nor what we will have when he returns. If he plays like last year, we will have a younger Marlon Byrd. Jacoby will probably miss at least two months and require another to get his swing back. If the Sox handle him like they did Papelbon, they will make no attempt to sign him when he becomes a free agent.

 

[NHUConnfan]

I don't agree that based on their scoring 9 runs yesterday that they have enough offense. They are weak offensively at third, short, catcher and all three outfield positions. Saying that Byrd is better than Repko is like saying that cancer is better than aids. Byrd is so bad that the struggling Chicago Cubs were ready to release him. Theo got us again. We gave up Michael Bowden, who might have been able to help in the bullpen, plus a player to be named later for an over-the-hill 34 year-old outfielder.
Finally, do you really think they have enough starting pitching? I think they are last or next to last in starter's ERA.

As for the all-star outfielders, I don't know when Crawford is coming back nor what we will have when he returns. If he plays like last year, we will have a younger Marlon Byrd. Jacoby will probably miss at least two months and require another to get his swing back. If the Sox handle him like they did Papelbon, they will make no attempt to sign him when he becomes a free agent.

The Red Sox gave up on Bowden. He was never pitching for Boston ever again.

 

[60'sfan]

The Red Sox gave up on Bowden. He was never pitching for Boston ever again.

Michael Bowden pitched two games for Boston this year with an ERA of 3:00. How many relievers do the Sox have that have done better?

 

[NHUConnfan]

Michael Bowden pitched two games for Boston this year with an ERA of 3:00. How many relievers do the Sox have that have done better?

If you read Boston commentary, the writing was on the wall from spring training. He was supposed to be a top tier pitching prospect, at least a #3 starter since they drafted him in the first round. He's done nothing but absolutely subvert all of those expectations. If he wasn't going to be a starting pitcher, he was not going to stay in Boston. Doesn't matter about 2 games. Over time he would have just regressed like he has in the previous seasons as a reliever.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Bits and pieces of each of the posts above ring true, but bottom line is the roster especially given injuries stinks.

I like the theory that Valentine was hired to have a fall guy if things don't work out. I think their first thought was he was the best bet to bleed water from a stone, but having Bobby V as a scapegoat is probably how Lucchino talked himself and Cherington into the hire. "Look-it, either things workout and BobbyV has a good short run before players get sick of him or he doesn't and we've got a scapegoat while we bridge the 2-ish years to cleanup these awful contracts and gradually replace the aging core (Youk, Ortiz, Beckett) with youth."

I think saying the players aren't stepping up is carryover bullcrap from last season and if anything I think they are all pressing. Facts are the bullpen does really stink and though financially smart*, losing Papelbon was a disaster excacerbated by the Bard debacle. Then the outfield is absolutely AAA right now. The results are unsustainably bad and I think it'll even out, but I don't expect them to be much better than mediocre until both Ellsbury and Crawford (assuming the Tampa version re-appears) are back.

* This is a tough one to take as a fan. They overpay Crawford, Lackey and Matsuzaka, but don't pay their own guy?! So hamstrung by the dumb free agents, they simply cannot keep digging that hole even if there's a 60% chance Paps was worth the money. They have to stop otherwise its a possible deathspiral ASSUMING ownership is unwilling to pay luxury tax and keep signing risky new big contracts while eating past mistakes. What sucks most about this as a fan is that fans keep paying the highest ticket prices and getting gouged on things like $9 beers, but the product is in a down cycle.

 

[60'sfan]

If you read Boston commentary, the writing was on the wall from spring training. He was supposed to be a top tier pitching prospect, at least a #3 starter since they drafted him in the first round. He's done nothing but absolutely subvert all of those expectations. If he wasn't going to be a starting pitcher, he was not going to stay in Boston. Doesn't matter about 2 games. Over time he would have just regressed like he has in the previous seasons as a reliever.

I know it's early but Michael Bowden has pitched well for the Cubs. Between the Sox and the Cubs he has an ERA of 2.45, 8 K's and 0 walks. In the meantime the fleet Marlon Byrd has an OBP of less than .300, has been caught stealing in his only attempt and cost the team a victory last night with his fielding. Further he has struck out 9 times with just one walk. I think Theo did it to us again.