The Blueblood Programs of Women's College Basketball

[HuskyNan]

UCLA had a run that will never be equaled, but they had 1 good decade. That was it. And it ended 50 years ago!

Indiana's Big Ten glory isn't quite that far in the rear view mirror, but they haven't really done anything since the early 90s since 2000. That's been a few years too.

Fixed it for you.

 

[meyers7]

I'm just gonna say it, 9 NC's gets you Blueblood status.

WBB of course.

 

[ConnManFan]

Thoughts on qualifications. A long time successful coach. Multiple national championships that span multiple non-overlapping classes. In the women's game specifically - a constant presence in the top 10 rankings for decades at a time. To me there are two clear women's basketball blue bloods. Tennessee and UConn are clearly tier one with no other peers. On a lower tier, at least 2 more championships each from even sniffing top tier are are South Carolina, Stanford, and Baylor.

 

[Zanzman]

At my age, I’m always nostalgic. Yes, UCLA and Indiana are blue bloods of mbb to me.

When does a team stop being a blue blood if ever in your book?

 

[visitingcock]

When does a team stop being a blue blood if ever in your book?

Never in my book Once a blue blood always a blue blood. To strip them of their having attained that status denigrates the great accomplishment of the times. LaTech accomplished wondrous things in their day. Just because they can’t continue in the present moneyball age does not change what they did. In fact, NO other school has been to the pinnacle under two different coaches

 

[visitingcock]

Thoughts on qualifications. A long time successful coach. Multiple national championships that span multiple non-overlapping classes. In the women's game specifically - a constant presence in the top 10 rankings for decades at a time. To me there are two clear women's basketball blue bloods. Tennessee and UConn are clearly tier one with no other peers. On a lower tier, at least 2 more championships each from even sniffing top tier are are South Carolina, Stanford, and Baylor.

LaTech is above UConn and Tennessee because they won under two different coaches. The only wbb dynasty.

 

[ahmed69]

Uconn and ND, that's it

 

[visitingcock]

Uconn and ND, that's it

ND? This ain’t horseshoes Mr. 2 championships.

A glib statement deserved a glib reply. But Muffet had a superb run of making it to the big game.

 

[ahmed69]

ND? This ain’t horseshoes Mr. 2 championships.

A glib statement deserved a glib reply. But Muffet had a superb run of making it to the big game.

I want to add tennessee, but the end of the uconn rivalry games and the crashout of pat summits son put a wet blanket on the program

 

[HuskyNan]

I want to add tennessee, but the end of the uconn rivalry games and the crashout of pat summits son put a wet blanket on the program

The "crashout" was due to an horrible, debilitating disease. Tennessee's legacy isn't defined by it or ruined by it, IMO. You can't ignore 8 National Championships. If UCLA can be a blueblood, then Tennessee definitely is.

 

[Puppy Love]

To me, ‘blue blood’ is a team where respect from with in sport is a given. I’d add Georgia and Bentley to the schools that you have to at least consider. Georgia s part of the foundation that led to the game we see today. Andy Landers knew how to win. Barbara Stevens had 900 wins at Bentley. Yes, it’s D2, but 900 wins is a lot.

 

[Puppy Love]

One other thought. Nearly any school that has sustained excellence has it because they got and kept a great young coach. In the early days, that was possible because women’s basketball was flying under the radar. Suppose today a young coach is hired by You Never Heard of It University. In their first three years, they start winning every game in sight. The next thing you know, they’ve made two or three runs deep into the NCAA’s. How long is it going to take before Big State University with an endless budget, hires that coach? It’s going to be a lot harder for schools to retain coaches if the money is there to hire them away. That means it’s going to be harder and harder to build any kind of sustained program.

 

[Puppy Love]

Did anyone mention Delta State?

 

[Dillon77]

Thoughts on qualifications. A long time successful coach. Multiple national championships that span multiple non-overlapping classes. In the women's game specifically - a constant presence in the top 10 rankings for decades at a time. To me there are two clear women's basketball blue bloods. Tennessee and UConn are clearly tier one with no other peers. On a lower tier, at least 2 more championships each from even sniffing top tier are are South Carolina, Stanford, and Baylor.

You may have chosen not to include them for other reasons, but Notre Dame also has two National Championships, both under Muffet McGraw. And they've been consistent, which is pretty much the time Niele Ivey arrived as an assistant coach and one Skylar Diggins decided to stay in-town and play for Notre Dame.

 

[Dillon77]

Did anyone mention Delta State?

You have. They're in the early section of teams, along with Immaculata, for sure.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

This is an interesting phrase. In effect, we’d be asking if a program has produced a player who can continue the winning identity established by her coach… at the same school. We might take as a benchmark a player who returns to an NC-winning program and wins an NC there. This would be an alternative to measuring salaries or other indicators of institutional investment. This version of the blue blood question is about the school.

However, an implication of posing the question in terms of identity is that the institutional connection might be a red herring. A different version of the blue blood question might be, “How many coaches who have won an NC have trained players who went on to win an NC as a coach at any school?” This version asks about the quality of a coach’s program as a tradition that can be replicated by one of its students anywhere. Omitting the institution and focusing on the coaches and players also fits the genealogical sense of the term “blue blood.”

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any players who have been able to replicate their coach’s success (ie winning an NC) as a coach in their own right. The closest candidate would be Dawn, who played in three Final Fours and one NC under Debbie Ryan at UVA, and went on to coach SC to NCs. Pat, Tara and Geno have won NCs, but their students haven’t replicated their achievement … yet. Only Kate Paye is in a position to accomplish this at the same school. Time will tell.

There are no second championship coach confirmed dynasties still rolling is what I think you are saying.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

UCLA had a run that will never be equaled, but they had 1 good decade. That was it. And it ended 50 years ago!

Indiana's glory isn't quite that far in the rear view mirror, but they haven't really done anything since the early 90s. That's been a few years too.

They won again in 1995 and have been to several Final Fours. I'd say still blue blood but not current elite. But always very good.

 

[nwhoopfan]

They won again in 1995 and have been to several Final Fours. I'd say still blue blood but not current elite. But always very good.

If you take away the Wooden era, their history is no more than decent. Less than schools like Michigan St. or Louisville have done in the intervening half a century, not to mention UConn.

 

[Bone Dog]

There are no second championship coach confirmed dynasties still rolling is what I think you are saying.

Yeah. I guess I heard the “blue blood” question in horsey terms, like actual bloodlines. Not just the accident of a school. If it’s lineage, then we ought to be thinking of “coaching trees.”

 

[ConnManFan]

You may have chosen not to include them for other reasons, but Notre Dame also has two National Championships, both under Muffet McGraw. And they've been consistent, which is pretty much the time Niele Ivey arrived as an assistant coach and one Skylar Diggins decided to stay in-town and play for Notre Dame.

My easiest answer to this is probably my anti-ND bias. I did consider them with the other three tier 2's, but my dislike of Muffet is very intense and maybe colored my objectivitiy with them. When they were in the old Big East with UConn, they certainly made for the best conference in women's basketball with the teams seemingly playing four times a year several times. Can't deny how good they were, they were just so nasty doing it. (again - a personal reflection of mine and maybe not wholly accurate.)

 

[visitingcock]

Thoughts on qualifications. A long time successful coach. Multiple national championships that span multiple non-overlapping classes. In the women's game specifically - a constant presence in the top 10 rankings for decades at a time. To me there are two clear women's basketball blue bloods. Tennessee and UConn are clearly tier one with no other peers. On a lower tier, at least 2 more championships each from even sniffing top tier are are South Carolina, Stanford, and Baylor.

My pronouncement: I have a total of ten programs which is about 3 percent of the D-1 wbb programs. Here we go in more or less chronological order of attainment.

1. Immalutata
2 Old Dominion
3. Delta State
4. Louisiana Tech
5. Tennessee
6. UConn
7. Stanford
8. Notre Dame
9. Baylor
10. South Carolina

Based upon multiple championships ( or in the case of Notre Dame, championship appearances) during a minimum of a ten year run of excellence.

What is a ten year run of excellence? Generally, an average of over 30 wins per season for 10 consecutive years.

Yes, Immaculata and Delta State can be called “Ancient Bluebooks” but they will always be blue bloods even if they aren’t D-1 programs anymore.

I stand ready to defend every program on my list of ten.

 

[Dillon77]

My pronouncement: I have a total of ten programs which is about 3 percent of the D-1 wbb programs. Here we go in more or less chronological order of attainment.

1. Immalutata
2 Old Dominion
3. Delta State
4. Louisiana Tech
5. Tennessee
6. UConn
7. Stanford
8. Notre Dame
9. Baylor
10. South Carolina

Based upon multiple championships ( or in the case of Notre Dame, championship appearances) during a minimum of a ten year run of excellence.

What is a ten year run of excellence? Generally, an average of over 30 wins per season for 10 consecutive years.

Yes, Immaculata and Delta State can be called “Ancient Bluebooks” but they will always be blue bloods even if they aren’t D-1 programs anymore.

I stand ready to defend every program on my list of ten.

I agree with the teams, but have a process question. Notre Dame -- under Muffet McGraw -- has won two NC's, but were 17 years apart. Is that why you put them in the parenthetical phrase?

 

[Dillon77]

My easiest answer to this is probably my anti-ND bias. I did consider them with the other three tier 2's, but my dislike of Muffet is very intense and maybe colored my objectivitiy with them. When they were in the old Big East with UConn, they certainly made for the best conference in women's basketball with the teams seemingly playing four times a year several times. Can't deny how good they were, they were just so nasty doing it. (again - a personal reflection of mine and maybe not wholly accurate.)

Thanks for your honesty and candor---Appreciated.

You laid out some objective qualifications and ND certainly qualified from your premises. Maybe you should've added, "and I have to admire/like the team?"

The UConn - ND rivalry was and still is intense. And it's usually well-played. Overall, I think it's a positive for Women's College Basketball and am glad Geno and (now) Coach Niele Ivey continue it.

I'm an ND alum, parent and fan but have an admiration for what Geno and Chris D. have done at UConn, which is one reason why I've been a member of the Boneyard for 8 (?) years. The other reason is having the opportunity to discuss basketball is a (most of the time) rational manner on The General Board, where folks from all over keep their allegiances but also take a step back to comment on hoops.
Look forward to doing the same with you.

(Now, I've got to get ready for that ND vs. Navy football game at the Meadowlands. )

 

[visitingcock]

I agree with the teams, but have a process question. Notre Dame -- under Muffet McGraw -- has won two NC's, but were 17 years apart. Is that why you put them in the parenthetical phrase?

Well, it goes to the general requirement of a power streak of ten years with multiple championships. Notre dame’s two championships don’t fit into a ten year period. However the had multiple championship appearances in that ten year power period ( of 2010-2019). That ten years was phenomenal with 349 wins, 1 championship and 5 runnerup finishes. . Indeed, my notes show 349 wines during 10-09 to UConn’s 340 wins in 09-18 ( though UConn had 6 championships during their best 10 year power run.)

 

[visitingcock]

THE POWER “DECADES:”

UConn: 2009-2018 It is highly doubtful that Geno’s best ( not only) ten year run will ever be rivaled much less equaled. 6 championships and four final fours is insane. 340 wins may be the third best ten year number. The bluest of the blue bloods. This run, of course, fell in the midst of the 12 straight final four run.

Tennessee: 1989-1998. Pat put together 4 championships, a runnerup, 2 final fours, an Elite 8 and two sweet 16’s along with 314 wins in the ten year period. Four other championships and other runner ups fell outside this stretch

Louisiana Tech1979-1988. Sonja Hogg and Leon Barmore put together 3 champion-ships, 2 runners ups, 2 final fours and 2 elite 8s with 322 wins on the cusp of the AIAW / NCAA era. The only dynasty of wbb was a tournament fixture 28 times and continuously until the 21st century.

South Carolina 2015-2024. Dawn is still possibly within her ten year power streak with 3 titles, 3 final fours, an elite 8, two-sweet 16s and a 30 win ( no tournament) season in an era of 319 total wins. The steak could be improved this year only by winning the championship again or by finishing number 2.

Baylor 2010-2019 Kim’s ten year effort showed 2 national championships, one final four, 5 elite 8s and two sweet 16s with an excellent compilation of 341 wins. Of course, Kim has one Baylor championship that fell outside the streak along with her more recent banner at LSU.

Stanford 1988-1997., Tara claimed 2 of her three championships in the streak, 4 final fours, 2 elite 8s and two sweets 16s. Although they did not have more than 300 wins during the ten year power period, you can’t leave the present winningest coach in wbb off the list of blue bloods.

Notre Dame 1910-2019: although Muffet had only one 1 championship during her best ten years, she reached THE GAME five other times in the period. The phenomenal accomplishment that was blunted only by Geno’s championships. The 349 wins during the period was especially powerful in gaining 1 championship, 5 runner ups, 2 final four and a two sweet16s. Muffet had another ‘ ship from before the streak began.

I have not checked any of the Non- champions or once champions for ten year runs.