The Big Five Conferences are going to break away | Page 7 | The Boneyard

The Big Five Conferences are going to break away

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Husky25

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I support the inclusion of U Conn into the p5 and have made that point very clear in past conversations here. I also happen to support B.C. and I don't feel the two have to be mutually exclusive. I refuse to be drawn into a Pi* ! contest over the superiority of one institution, both have a lot to offer. I do enjoy exchanging conversation with others who offer an opinion or a point of view that is based on mutual respect for each school. Yes Im aware it can be hostile at times, but the nice U Conn fans that I have spoken with make it a worthwhile venture. I even collected my own BY trophy.

I can appreciate your POV, with one caveat. Often times, others feel they are mutually exclusive, including people on both sides.

My point with the post you quoted is that you come into hostile territory and call a rival a hater, when that hatred should be expected, if not somewhat justified, given the history of the two fanbases and administrations. B.C. has overtly blocked UConn on numerous and separate occasions, so I think it quite disingenuous to then come here and act all Mark McGuire-esque and not want to talk about the past. The past is prologue, not ancient history. B.C. is not innocent merely because DeFillipo, Calhoun, and Blumenthal are gone and the sole you support UConn's inclusion.

Call me crazy but I don't think it works that way.
 
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So if UCONN started playing players and was still successful, you wouldn't watch it or care? COME ON!

NOTHING will change if they start playing players. People will still show up to watch games, people will still donate money to the booster clubs, and people will still care alot if their team wins or loses.
start paying players? the fact that tuition is no longer deemed a form of payment shows what path we're on.
 
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Talk about reaching for straws! 30 senators from states with no P5 schools. Lets see that only leaves 70 on the other side. FL politicians care for UF & FSU a few UM, the rest don't register on the meter. TX cares about UT & A&M, OH about OSU. CA cares about CAL & UCLA. Even in MA you probably have more pol's with connections to BU, BC and NU than Umass.
so FL politicians don't care about two FL STATE universities that combined have an enrollment closing in on 100K students?
 
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How noble of you. However you must understand that with what has come out publicly from B.C., Coach Calhoun's comments, DeFilipo's comments (and retraction), UConn's performance vs. B.C. in basketball, and the manner in which UConn hung with them in their only true meeting in D1A football. A comment like that is akin to saying you are a diehard fan of both the Red Sox and the Yankees.

I have a close relative who graduated from Boston College, and my favorite D1a football teams rank in this order...
1. UConn
2. Michigan (were a favorite prior to 2000, allegiances die hard...unless they are playing UConn.)
3. Whoever is playing Boston College (Unless that team is Notre Dame, Miami, or Ohio State, in which case, I turn the channel and route for a body bag game as scores crawl across the ticker.)
Sorry but I don't agree, and its not about being noble ......its my perspective. JUST BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO take that route does not mean others have to subscribe to that same line of thinking. Things don't have to always be all in or bust. I happen to be comfortable in the middle and very much sincere with regards to my opinion and vision. Glad to hear you stand firmly behind your school. I did not endorse G.D. actions at any time, I found the entire situation repulsive, and I am not alone. You made your point of dislike for B.C., but hey its all good. Thanks for chatting.
 
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This

and you can bet The American and the MWC will pay their players the stipend in order to compete at the highest level. The cost of the stipend will be paid for by dropping a decent percentage of the non revenue producing sports. Baseball/softball and soccer teams will get the ax long before the schools decide to blow-up football and basketball.

Also it seems to me that ESPN would be in favor of keeping The American in the game as they stand to make a tidy profit by airing our games given the fact that they are paying us with peanuts, heck they would probably give us a little extra money for the stipend rather then watch us die.

Rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated. Enjoy the season and ignore this nonsense.
or it could force the cream of the crop between the non-P5 schools to mesh for a conference that qualifies:
Uconn, Cincy, Boise, SDSU, BYU (assuming they don't get the ND treatment), USF, UCF, Temple, Houston, Memphis...
 
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What exactly has winning gotten us to this point except this blind faith we'll end up fine? We have already been demoted! We are a "have not" right now. I WANT to be positive, I WANT to believe we'll be ok - I just haven't seen ANY evidence we are heading in that direction. Just keep hoping that I log on to the BY one day and find out we've won the lottery?


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Imagine if all we had was a final 4 appearance back in 1984... we'd be Providence with a football team.
 

Husky25

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Sorry but I don't agree, and its not about being noble ......its my perspective. JUST BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO take that route does not mean others have to subscribe to that same line of thinking. Things don't have to always be all in or bust. I happen to be comfortable in the middle and very much sincere with regards to my opinion and vision. Glad to hear you stand firmly behind your school. I did not endorse G.D. actions at any time, I found the entire situation repulsive, and I am not alone. You made your point of dislike for B.C., but hey its all good. Thanks for chatting.

I characterized it as being Noble because, sarcasm notwithstanding, while a few B.C. fans may feel the way you do, a large number of them do not. Many look down their noses and revel in the schaedenfreude of the situation. I agree that things do not have to be all in or bust, but that is the reality of this particular situation. The overriding feeling is that had it not been for Gene Defilipo, UConn would be competing at least in the ACC.

Not very Christian of the man.
 
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I can appreciate your POV, with one caveat. Often times, others feel they are mutually exclusive, including people on both sides.

My point with the post you quoted is that you come into hostile territory and call a rival a hater, when that hatred should be expected, if not somewhat justified, given the history of the two fanbases and administrations. B.C. has overtly blocked UConn on numerous and separate occasions, so I think it quite disingenuous to then come here and act all Mark McGuire-esque and not want to talk about the past. The past is prologue, not ancient history. B.C. is not innocent merely because DeFillipo, Calhoun, and Blumenthal are gone and the sole you support UConn's inclusion.

Call me crazy but I don't think it works that way.
Well I don't happen to feel that way. So your saying that if I don't agree with your POV then I am being disingenuous? Yes opinions can be exchanged without beating someone down. Im well aware of the past. Rehashing it is not going to change the present, and in your eyes Im guilty of not discussing past events which then in turn invalidates me as genuine. So I assume you are setting the guidelines for how things work or don't work here..in which case I have to call you crazy. My thoughts are U Conn for the p5, development of U Mass athletics, and the advancement of New England's three football playing members at the national level. There does not always have to be a right and a wrong. Cheers.
 
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I characterized it as being Noble because, sarcasm notwithstanding, while a few B.C. fans may feel the way you do, a large number of them do not. Many look down their noses and revel in the schaedenfreude of the situation. I agree that things do not have to be all in or bust, but that is the reality of this particular situation. The overriding feeling is that had it not been for Gene Defilipo, UConn would be competing at least in the ACC.

Not very Christian of the man.
No it was not...he was so wrong on a lot of different levels. I feel its such an explosive subject that broaching it here is asking for trouble. I can see both points of view north and south. Starting in 2004 all people involved needed to sit and talk. A lot of hot heads and no communication which led to poor decisions and a quick escalation into a heated frenzy of name calling, threats, and pure stupidity. I assure you I understand your point of view and those of others here as well.
 

Husky25

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Well I don't happen to feel that way. So your saying that if I don't agree with your POV then I am being disingenuous? Yes opinions can be exchanged without beating someone down. Im well aware of the past. Rehashing it is not going to change the present, and in your eyes Im guilty of not discussing past events which then in turn invalidates me as genuine. So I assume you are setting the guidelines for how things work or don't work here..in which case I have to call you crazy. My thoughts are U Conn for the p5, development of U Mass athletics, and the advancement of New England's three football playing members at the national level. There does not always have to be a right and a wrong. Cheers.

Did I say any of that? No I didn't.

I said I appreciate your point of view. Agree with me; don't agree with me, which ever you choose, I couldn't care much less. Just as you won't lose any sleep because I think B.C. has set itself back by 10 years. I like the banter. The disingenuousness has to do with a combination of what has happened to UConn at the hands of Boston College's former athletic administration and then someone entering an opponents' message board, calling it's natural inhabitants "haters," while seemingly half not-expecting the condition of their particular mindset to begin with, simply because you (individually) don't feel that way.

In my eyes, you not discussing the past has nothing to do with this conversation. It's more of not acknowledging that the past has any role in shaping a fan base's preconceived notions and potential hostility toward another fan base in general.

I set no guidelines around here. I said rivalries don't work like that.
 
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or it could force the cream of the crop between the non-P5 schools to mesh for a conference that qualifies:
Uconn, Cincy, Boise, SDSU, BYU (assuming they don't get the ND treatment), USF, UCF, Temple, Houston, Memphis...

This sounds good at first, but it would be very hard for a conference consisting of the teams you listed to compete with the P5 conferences. If the P5 created a new division and brought along the top 10 remaining teams to form a 6th conference, the 6th conference will never be able to compete with the P5 in terms of money, exposure, SOS, and bowl access. Talk of this new division would have little impact on the current TV contracts in place. Therefore, this 6th conference would only slightly close the gap between the P5 and the 6th conference and would put Uconn in an equally bad position as today. Uconn would face larger travel costs and associate the University with many schools that think much less of education than Uconn. The formation of this 6th conference may also make it less likely that the P5 expand to invite Uconn. I see Uconn as more valuable than the teams you listed, and thus I would prefer that this 6th conference does not form. This would leave Uconn in a good position to fill out the ACC, B1G, or B12 when the new division is created.

As for the new "Super" division, the P5 is floating the idea of a new division with relaxed recruiting rules and additional financial costs that many teams can not afford. For football, this division already exists in theory with the P5 (+ND / maybe BYU) being Tier 1 and the G5 being Tier 2, but would become more formal with the creation of the new division. Other than a few name changes to trophies, there will be very little change to the football product that exists today.

A pipe dream would be for each team and conference to give up media rights to the NCAA and create a revenue sharing process. This pipe dream used to exist until Oklahoma sued the NCAA and won, and there is no way the major schools will revert back.
 

Husky25

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No it was not...he was so wrong on a lot of different levels. I feel its such an explosive subject that broaching it here is asking for trouble. I can see both points of view north and south. Starting in 2004 all people involved needed to sit and talk. A lot of hot heads and no communication which led to poor decisions and a quick escalation into a heated frenzy of name calling, threats, and pure stupidity. I assure you I understand your point of view and those of others here as well.

That is something upon which we can agree.

Salut!!
 
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That is something upon which we can agree.

Salut!!
Yes for sure.......imagine how things could have went if all involved acted professionally and worked things out...we would have been playing some football and basketball and a true rivalry would have been born a decade ago.
 
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As a life long fan and alumni of one of the P5 teams, I welcome breaking off to create a completely different division with open arms. The financial split between the haves and the have nots has grown to such proportions that I don't feel there is any way for the two different sects of FBS football to possibly work together effectively.
 
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Well I don't happen to feel that way. So your saying that if I don't agree with your POV then I am being disingenuous? Yes opinions can be exchanged without beating someone down. Im well aware of the past. Rehashing it is not going to change the present, and in your eyes Im guilty of not discussing past events which then in turn invalidates me as genuine. So I assume you are setting the guidelines for how things work or don't work here..in which case I have to call you crazy. My thoughts are U Conn for the p5, development of U Mass athletics, and the advancement of New England's three football playing members at the national level. There does not always have to be a right and a wrong. Cheers.

I'm O.K. with an Eagle that gets it. Unless B.C. is in a region that develops some worthwhile football competition it will become marginalized in the ACC. It already has been in many respects. Other than hockey, B.C. has been uniformly not competitive in sports. Unfortunately, the ACC doesn't have a hockey conference let alone care one iota about it.

The real and only issue for P-5 consideration is football --- it drives the financial bus of inter-collegiate sports. Let's face it the northeast is going to struggle against the south and the southwest for football notoriety as it is. We don't need to be divisive among ourselves, but let's be real about the current P-5 members from the northeast for a moment. Do you think that B.C. will ever consistently thrive in the ACC competing against FSU, Clemson, VT etc. in the long term, if it remains an isolated outpost of D-1 football in New England? What are the chances that B.C.'s position will be enhanced by the presence of Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers in the northeast? You'll see that Syracuse brings good hoops to the ACC (they were second to UConn in the BE for years.) In football - not so much, heck the upstart Huskies beat them 5 straight years (2007-2011) by average score of 35-15! Pitt? A genuine national champion in football --- 37 years ago! And not much of anything since. Rutgers --- well, enough said!

The biggest problem the northeast D-1 schools are going to have in the future is maintaining relevance in the national conversation about football. BB will be fine and the ACC will be the best hoops conference in the country (until the B1G takes UConn), but I don't think hoops matters a lot. If it did, UConn would have been the first one poached from the old BE. It's football, football, football! Until the schools in the northeast, as a group, become more competitive then northeast football will languish. (I don't care what conference you're in.) For that purpose all D-1 schools from the northeast should support the development of region-wide competence in football. Only then will recruiting become easier and the schools will be more attractive to kids from the football rich south and southwest. The recruiting numbers don't lie. In all of New England, approx. 15,000,000 people, there were 21 D-1 scholarship kids. 10 from CT and MA each and 1 from RI. That's it! Add NY, PA, and NJ (population of approx. 41,000,000) you add 146 for a total of 167 D-1 players from the northeast (56,000,000 population base). Compare that to the numbers from TX, Fla, GA -=- 346, 332 and 184 respectively - total of 862 D-1 players from a population of roughly the same - 56,000,000.

You say enough with numbers. However, you can see that you have to convince kids from the south to come to school in the north to have any shot of developing northeast football at an elite level. The only way to do that is to have a thriving, competitive regional presence and an exciting brand of football. This will help create a national buzz about the sport in the northeast and that will attract athletes. Daunting task? You bet it is! But how the hell did Nebraska do it? A state that loves football, but works off a population base of 1,500,000 with only 5 D-1 recruits state-wide this year. It gets players from other football rich regions.

It will take awhile, but I think it can be done. The only question is whether the effete northeast fan base can embrace college football like it has been elsewhere. It did before --- this is where college football got its start.
 

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so FL politicians don't care about two FL STATE universities that combined have an enrollment closing in on 100K students?

No they don't care about the athletic programs. The 100k students don't either.
 

UCFBfan

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As a life long fan and alumni of one of the P5 teams, I welcome breaking off to create a completely different division with open arms. The financial split between the haves and the have nots has grown to such proportions that I don't feel there is any way for the two different sects of FBS football to possibly work together effectively.
Thank you for your interest in the University of Connecticut.

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@ Seat Goat
I agree. An intense, healthy rivalry between the Northeastern schools (UConn, BC, Syracuse) will greatly help college football in the region. Rivalries generate passion and fan interest which generates TV viewership and dollars, which makes the world go round.
Unfortunately these natural rivalries have not developed due to so hot-headed CT politicians (CT had just spent millions on a campus upgrade, UConn 2000, and millions more to upgrade football when the first Big E raid took place, so I can understand why, even if it was foolish) and egocentric university administrators up north who seem to be jealous and paranoid over UConn’s success over the last 30 years.
Not only does it generate money; but, it also trickles down to youth sports enticing more kids to play. New England and New York on average are a black whole when it comes to football recruitment. The top college recruiting states are also the home of the best college football programs in most cases – CA (USC, UCLA), TX (Texas, Texas A&M), FL (Florida, Florida St & Miami), OH (Ohio St), and PA (Penn St). NJ is an exception as Rutgers historical lack of success has always been a puzzle; but, a lot of BC and Syracuse’s success can be credited to their successful recruitment in NJ.
For those who doubt that college football can be good in New England, turn the clock back to before the 1950’s when the Ivy League was involved in major college sports. Yale versus Harvard was ‘The Game’ for a reason drawing 70,000 to 80,000 fans a game with national title implications often on the line.
 
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@ Seat Goat
I agree. An intense, healthy rivalry between the Northeastern schools (UConn, BC, Syracuse) will greatly help college football in the region. Rivalries generate passion and fan interest which generates TV viewership and dollars, which makes the world go round.
Unfortunately these natural rivalries have not developed due to so hot-headed CT politicians (CT had just spent millions on a campus upgrade, UConn 2000, and millions more to upgrade football when the first Big E raid took place, so I can understand why, even if it was foolish) and egocentric university administrators up north who seem to be jealous and paranoid over UConn’s success over the last 30 years.
Not only does it generate money; but, it also trickles down to youth sports enticing more kids to play. New England and New York on average are a black whole when it comes to football recruitment. The top college recruiting states are also the home of the best college football programs in most cases – CA (USC, UCLA), TX (Texas, Texas A&M), FL (Florida, Florida St & Miami), OH (Ohio St), and PA (Penn St). NJ is an exception as Rutgers historical lack of success has always been a puzzle; but, a lot of BC and Syracuse’s success can be credited to their successful recruitment in NJ.
For those who doubt that college football can be good in New England, turn the clock back to before the 1950’s when the Ivy League was involved in major college sports. Yale versus Harvard was ‘The Game’ for a reason drawing 70,000 to 80,000 fans a game with national title implications often on the line.

Mr. Conehead,

The Ivies (even Columbia!), ND, Navy, Army, the B1G were the college football powers of that bygone era. I just hope the population hasn't gone soft on football (in favor of soccer!) and we can recapture that glory. Truth is, though, that we must get kids leave the south and play in the north. That will happen first with the lesser recruits because the southern schools will cherry pick talent. However, it will slowly change if we can put a decent product on the field and, in UConn's case, get the hell out of the AAC. UConn's quality as an institution will also help in this regard. We should be able to out-recruit many southern D-1 schools and many from the northeast also, including our former BE partners.
 
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The best thing for UConn is if this new super division requires certain levels of financial commitment in order to be considered for membership. If that is the case and UConn (or any other school) meets those levels and is subsequently excluded then those schools could and would likely an antitrust lawsuit.

I'm sure the P5 schools know this and this is why the number 75 was bandied about. Does anyone think the new playoff system was not in response to the Utah AG's lawsuit and subsequent letter from the DOJ to the NCAA?

I think anyone who thinks a Power 5 super division would be safe from antitrust scrutiny is whistling past the graveyard.

Utah's politicos got real quiet after Utah was invited to the PAC.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Politicians didn't care about it before because the money wasn't there. There are a lot of politicians looking around for ways to generate money that doesn't hurt anyone. Turning athletic departments into UBTI is definitely on the radar already.

I think even BCU would think twice about following Alabama and Texas in forming a minor league. I will be surprised if Northwestern or Duke go through with it.
 

whaler11

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Politicians didn't care about it before because the money wasn't there. There are a lot of politicians looking around for ways to generate money that doesn't hurt anyone. Turning athletic departments into UBTI is definitely on the radar already.

I think even BCU would think twice about following Alabama and Texas in forming a minor league. I will be surprised if Northwestern or Duke go through with it.

Yeah the only people it hurts are the students who pay the freight through their fees. Let them graduate with even higher debt burdens. No victims here.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Whaler,

Question is really simple: are you personally willing to pay more in taxes so that Texas can make $40mm a year from its athletic program, tax free?
 
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start paying players? the fact that tuition is no longer deemed a form of payment shows what path we're on.


For some it is.

When you look at the big schools who are bringing in $80 mill or more a year largely because of "students" playing football for that school and think that your only getting at most $50k a year and they are bringing $80 mill (and paying coaches and assistants millions) its not a stretch to expect a little more than tuition.
 
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