The Athletic: KO Article

[UCDaveD]

Moving to the NBE would be a godsend for the basketball program. You can say this and that about the AAC and the teams, and the rankings blah blah. You''re not wrong, but perception is everything. NBE > AAC in recruits eyes.

 

[8893]

I wonder about this. If you are trying to recruit a kid from Texas to play at SMU, then yeah, the league probably looks decent. Houston is near, and Tulsa, and Wichita State. If you are recruiting a NYC kid to UConn, it doesn't look as good. So I'll buy the premise that it hurts a little bit.

What I won't buy is the notion that our coach, and the culture he has cultivated, is not a much, much, much bigger factor at the moment. Looking just anecdotally, it appears that the HS kids who have the most knowledge of what is going on in Storrs want nothing to do with coming to UConn. Water is an example. Diallo another. So Ollie essentially is frozen out of what should be his primary recruiting market, and really, that's on him. 2018: Akinjo (CA), Mathhews (WA). Kisunas is local up in Brewster, but is a European kid and we have connections there.

Here's the rub. If UConn joins the NBE, we essentially become Xavier. That's it. We'd be good most of the time, and maybe make a final four run now and then. That's our new reality. I'd rather aim big. The only way to real prosperity, and to return to what we once thought we were, is to hope football can make a rapid improvement and help us go elsewhere. And start winning in the league we are in. I think the biggest problem we have with the American is that we aren't dominating it. We look extra bad by being only the 5th best team in a league people look down on. If we had SMU's results the last three years we'd be doing just fine.

I don’t know the logistics but I think being in the AAC is more of a slog for us than for any other team in it.

 

[UConnDan97]

My line of thinking when we got stuck in the AAC was basically, if Gonzaga can succeed in the WCC why can't UConn (a school with even more resources) do just fine in the AAC? But I suppose at least one difference is that Gonzaga wasn't demoted from the PAC-10 to the WCC. They have just continued to be who they were.

I think the more appropriate line of thinking is that they play in the West Coast Conference, which all but guarantees that they can put up ridiculous win totals. They're a guaranteed 25+ win team no matter what. Part of that is the fact that Mark Few is a very good coach, but the other part of that is being in a league that will never challenge them.

And when you put up 25+ wins every year and have a few big OOC games on tv, you can still stay in the national conversation the way they are...

 

[ZenConn]

are we stuck though? we seem to be moving backwards

"If you are standing still, you are also going backwards."

Essentially, the competition has caught up and there's further distance between you and the ones in front of you.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

"If you are standing still, you are also going backwards."

Essentially, the competition has caught up and there's further distance between you and the ones in front of you.

right, but we aren't standing still. we are moving backwards.

 

[superjohn]

I don’t know the logistics but I think being in the AAC is more of a slog for us than for any other team in it.

It is. I get on Ollie all the time but he isn't close to the whole problem. The league is dragging us down in many ways and I'm not sure how we survive going forward without changing it. I think so many people are looking to 15-20 years down the road when discussing moving back to the Big East. There won't be anything left in 10 years if we stand pat, let alone 15 or 20. The landscape is always changing and to be honest none of us really know what football will look like in 15 years or if the sport will even exist let alone be leading the charge.

 

[Guapo]

I wonder about this. If you are trying to recruit a kid from Texas to play at SMU, then yeah, the league probably looks decent. Houston is near, and Tulsa, and Wichita State. If you are recruiting a NYC kid to UConn, it doesn't look as good. So I'll buy the premise that it hurts a little bit.

What I won't buy is the notion that our coach, and the culture he has cultivated, is not a much, much, much bigger factor at the moment. Looking just anecdotally, it appears that the HS kids who have the most knowledge of what is going on in Storrs want nothing to do with coming to UConn. Water is an example. Diallo another. So Ollie essentially is frozen out of what should be his primary recruiting market, and really, that's on him. 2018: Akinjo (CA), Mathhews (WA). Kisunas is local up in Brewster, but is a European kid and we have connections there.

Here's the rub. If UConn joins the NBE, we essentially become Xavier. That's it. We'd be good most of the time, and maybe make a final four run now and then. That's our new reality. I'd rather aim big. The only way to real prosperity, and to return to what we once thought we were, is to hope football can make a rapid improvement and help us go elsewhere. And start winning in the league we are in. I think the biggest problem we have with the American is that we aren't dominating it. We look extra bad by being only the 5th best team in a league people look down on. If we had SMU's results the last three years we'd be doing just fine.

Saying "we'd be Xavier" is completely arbitrary though.

How could we possibly know that?

Someone could just as easily say "we'd be Villanova"

 

[Hurleyman216]

While I think having the men’s b-ball and football programs being in the top 25 every year SHOULD help our chances at getting into the BIG, history has shown just the opposite. The ACC took BC, Syracuse and Pitt all of whom sucked at football at the time they got the invite and the BIG took Rutgers. We know it’s more about the media markets and brand perception than winning every year. I know this isn’t a popular opinion on here, but I’d love to see UConn go independent for a couple of years. It does a couple of things to send a message: first it screws ESPN because the UConn brand is about 50% of the value of the AAC tv contract. We should take Notre Dame’s blueprint for football and their tv contract and apply it to our b-ball programs. This will inevitably lead to the BIG or ACC scooping us up due to our media market value.

 

[Penfield]

I think the more appropriate line of thinking is that they play in the West Coast Conference, which all but guarantees that they can put up ridiculous win totals. They're a guaranteed 25+ win team no matter what. Part of that is the fact that Mark Few is a very good coach, but the other part of that is being in a league that will never challenge them.

And when you put up 25+ wins every year and have a few big OOC games on tv, you can still stay in the national conversation the way they are...

Well I thought we would be winning 25+ games every year in the AAC.

I guess the good thing is the AAC is more competative than the WCC, but the bad part is it gets respected like the WCC

 

[UConnNick]

I used to be 75% stick it out in the AAC.

Then I moved to 50/50.

Now I'm 75% thinking it's best to put basketball in the NBE. Football will figure itself out, somehow, someway.

I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone else, but that's how I feel.

Football dies as an independent, or in a lesser conference. Kill football and you kill the UCONN athletic program as we have known it.

 

[UConnNick]

I haaaaate when national writers mis-represent the truth of what happened during the Big East breakup.



This is just inaccurate. I'm sure she knows the truth, too.

Not necessarily. Some writers are lazy and don't do their homework before smacking their keyboards.

 

[Guapo]

Football dies as an independent, or in a lesser conference. Kill football and you kill the UCONN athletic program as we have known it.

I haven't exactly loved the recent iterations of our athletic department.

I'd hate to see the football program die but the basketball program is my #1 priority

 

[UConnNick]

I think the more appropriate line of thinking is that they play in the West Coast Conference, which all but guarantees that they can put up ridiculous win totals. They're a guaranteed 25+ win team no matter what. Part of that is the fact that Mark Few is a very good coach, but the other part of that is being in a league that will never challenge them.

And when you put up 25+ wins every year and have a few big OOC games on tv, you can still stay in the national conversation the way they are...

Exactly right, Dan. The Gonzaga men's BB team is like the UCONN women's BB team, except they're missing the 11 national championships. Gonzaga is the equivalent of us joining the America East Conference.

 

[UConnNick]

I haven't exactly loved the recent iterations of our athletic department.

I'd hate to see the football program die but the basketball program is my #1 priority

I wasn't talking about only the past three years.

 

[superjohn]

Exactly right, Dan. The Gonzaga men's BB team is like the UCONN women's BB team, except they're missing the 11 national championships. Gonzaga is the equivalent of us joining the America East Conference.

Except for the whole part where Gonzaga is really good at basketball lately and we're not.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Saying "we'd be Xavier" is completely arbitrary though.

How could we possibly know that?

Someone could just as easily say "we'd be Villanova"

Villanova is just Xavier with a slightly better coach. In a few years they will fall again. It’s still surrendering the dream that UConn can be considered a major public university alongside our peers. Joining up with small, private schools does great damage to our reputation in other ways.

This isn’t just about sports. This is about UConn looking at Michigan, Virginia, UNC, Penn State and Wisconsin and saying “We are with you. We are like you”. No other New England public can do that. We have a chance and we have to see it through. That’s what the move to D1 football was all about.

 

[Paesano]

I think the more appropriate line of thinking is that they play in the West Coast Conference, which all but guarantees that they can put up ridiculous win totals. They're a guaranteed 25+ win team no matter what. Part of that is the fact that Mark Few is a very good coach, but the other part of that is being in a league that will never challenge them.

And when you put up 25+ wins every year and have a few big OOC games on tv, you can still stay in the national conversation the way they are...

Nice mental gymnastics. If a team, from a better conference, does better than UConn, it is because they are in a better conference. If a team, from a worse conference, does better it is because they are in a worse conference. Brilliant!!!

So did Gonzaga's weak conference get them all the way to the national championship game last year or was that coaching?

 

[Paesano]

Exactly right, Dan. The Gonzaga men's BB team is like the UCONN women's BB team, except they're missing the 11 national championships. Gonzaga is the equivalent of us joining the America East Conference.

You are right. But the UConn women won championships from both a bad and a good conference. The key is coaching. Everything else is an excuse and noise.

 

[QDOG5]

There is no way that UConn football and basketball will be playing in different conferences. No way. No way. No way. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[olehead]

I made the point you are making here among some friends last week who generally have more information than I do in terms of what’s going on inside the program and they say what they are hearing is that the conference is killing our recruiting. When I pointed to the successes of other AAC schools they said that the difference is that most kids won’t want to come to Storrs to play in that league; whereas they might be more willing to go elsewhere within the AAC. In other words, the perception is that it’s not a good fit for us in terms of culture and geography. Even though I think the AAC makes more sense than the NBE for us, I think the perception is the opposite.

And perception has a way of becoming reality.

8893 is right on. If I'm a three to borderline four star from anywhere in the country and not really excited about the bottom dweller P5's pursuing me and I'm being recruited by UConn, Houston and UCF. I'm going w/ Houston or UCF. The UConn name in the eyes of kids is not that alluring. This is due to having too few playmakers, questionable strategy, the AAC and a lack of recent success in the last couple of years. So, if it's gotta to be the AAC for the above hypothetical recruit, I'm going to a school in an attractive location. Storrs or Orlando? It's a no-brainer to most recruits in this scenario.

 

[Guapo]

Villanova is just Xavier with a slightly better coach. In a few years they will fall again. It’s still surrendering the dream that UConn can be considered a major public university alongside our peers. Joining up with small, private schools does great damage to our reputation in other ways.

This isn’t just about sports. This is about UConn looking at Michigan, Virginia, UNC, Penn State and Wisconsin and saying “We are with you. We are like you”. No other New England public can do that. We have a chance and we have to see it through. That’s what the move to D1 football was all about.

I agree with you. This isn't about sports.

But I'd argue that a protracted stay in the AAC would do more damage to our academic brand than joining the Big East would.

 

[HuskyHawk]

8893 is right on. If I'm a three to borderline four star from anywhere in the country and not really excited about the bottom dweller P5's pursuing me and I'm being recruited by UConn, Houston and UCF. I'm going w/ Houston or UCF. The UConn name in the eyes of kids is not that alluring. This is due to having too few playmakers, questionable strategy, the AAC and a lack of recent success in the last couple of years. So, if it's gotta to be the AAC for the above hypothetical recruit, I'm going to a school in an attractive location. Storrs or Orlando? It's a no-brainer to most recruits in this scenario.

Dude, we swept UCF last year with half a roster. That argument is nonsense. We won a national championship 3 years ago. Houston never has and hasn't been to final four since before these kids were born. UCF has, quite literally, never done anything at all in the sport of basketball, except suck at it. We went to the tournament two years ago. Houston and UCF didn't. UConn still has a better name and more allure than any other school in the league, and it isn't close. There are other things that are to blame here, things that would not be fixed by being in the Big East.

 

[Waquoit]

Dude, we swept UCF last year with half a roster.

But that half included Brimah. Tacko couldn't do squat against him.

 

[UConnDan97]

Nice mental gymnastics. If a team, from a better conference, does better than UConn, it is because they are in a better conference. If a team, from a worse conference, does better it is because they are in a worse conference. Brilliant!!!

So did Gonzaga's weak conference get them all the way to the national championship game last year or was that coaching?

I think you might suffer from some sort of disorder, so I'll try not to pick on you.

First, I made the comment in my post that I think Mark Few is a very good coach.
Second, if you think that having 25+ wins on your record doesn't foster being well thought of, then it's not my mental gymnastics you need to worry about...

 

[superjohn]

8893 is right on. If I'm a three to borderline four star from anywhere in the country and not really excited about the bottom dweller P5's pursuing me and I'm being recruited by UConn, Houston and UCF. I'm going w/ Houston or UCF. The UConn name in the eyes of kids is not that alluring. This is due to having too few playmakers, questionable strategy, the AAC and a lack of recent success in the last couple of years. So, if it's gotta to be the AAC for the above hypothetical recruit, I'm going to a school in an attractive location. Storrs or Orlando? It's a no-brainer to most recruits in this scenario.

Houston hasn't been alluring to recruits since Guy Lewis and UCF has never been alluring to anyone. Those schools don't get anyone for hoops.

 

[8893]

Dude, we swept UCF last year with half a roster. That argument is nonsense. We won a national championship 3 years ago. Houston never has and hasn't been to final four since before these kids were born. UCF has, quite literally, never done anything at all in the sport of basketball, except suck at it. We went to the tournament two years ago. Houston and UCF didn't. UConn still has a better name and more allure than any other school in the league, and it isn't close. There are other things that are to blame here, things that would not be fixed by being in the Big East.

He's talking about the geography much more than the prestige of the program. I think someone else made the point that we're not necessarily losing recruits to these other AAC schools, because we generally haven't been competing for the same players; but I think it's just a matter of "fit," no matter how you define it. My logical mind still says the AAC is a better place for us right now, and agree with you that we fit best with a P5 conference like the Big Ten and that that should remain the long term goal. I think the question is becoming how long is that long term, and whether we will be so irreparably damaged in the meantime that we might as well give up that pipe dream and salvage at least our basketball legacy by trying to get into the NBE, apparently for fan nostalgia and fannies in the seats if little else.

All of which is to basically confirm what the article says and what we all know: we're stuck.

 

[Mots010]

Bottom line is our recruiting is better than the rest of the AAC by a good margin, with terrible results since 2014. Teams with less 'talent' have been finishing ahead of us every year. The AAC is a problem, but near term, coaching is our biggest problem. Now I'm definitely worried what impact the AAC will have on our coaching search.

 

[superjohn]

Bottom line is our recruiting is better than the rest of the AAC by a good margin, with terrible results since 2014. Teams with less 'talent' have been finishing ahead of us every year. The AAC is a problem, but near term, coaching is our biggest problem. Now I'm definitely worried what impact the AAC will have on our coaching search.

Exactly. I still think we can get someone very good. The longer we mess around it will no longer be the case.

 

[UofCT]

So...if we were winning, people wouldn't be complaining about the fact that program isn't winning?

Agreed.

Now is the time to stay the course and hope, against all reason, that will get a P5 invite. If nothing happens after the end of the current TV deals for the B1G, the ACC and the Big 12, we are done and will have to adapt our program expenditures to that reality.

Until then stay the course. Oh and enjoy what we have now, because things will get worse before the stabilize.

What is worse than what this program is right now?

 

[BUConn10]

I used to be 75% stick it out in the AAC.

Then I moved to 50/50.

Now I'm 75% thinking it's best to put basketball in the NBE. Football will figure itself out, somehow, someway.

I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone else, but that's how I feel.

Amazing to me that it took nearly 6 years for people to start realizing this.