The ACC's Days are Numbered

[HuskyHawk]

I think the difference, and a source of friction in the ACC, is that there are teams in the ACC that are not trying. BCU, Miami, Duke and Syracuse really aren't even trying in football. Wake and Georgia Tech have spectacular football coaches, but they are in the same bucket. Basketball is a different animal, although both Duke and Syracuse are riding two of the top coaches of the past 3 decades. It will be interesting to see how they replace the two legends. That is why I think my D1 "Patriot League" outcome is a very real possibility. If they could make enough money in a TV contract to stabilize their athletic department finances but have no chance of competing at the highest level, I think half the ACC schools would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

On the other hand, Boise, Memphis, Houston and SMU seem very focused on being very successful in at least one sport.

Perhaps. At this moment in time. But at other moments in time, Bama and LSU were lousy. USC between Robinson and Carrol was feeble. BC has botched things. But both Clemson and VT went to BCS bowls last year (and lost). GT has produced some great NFL talent, but can't seem to pull it together. UNC will come out of sanctions and try very hard to be great at football. UVA doesn't try. Duke doesn't try. BC tries and is just inept.

I prefer the long view. There is no reason why the programs in the ACC can't become strong, major players at football. They have more going for them, and more resources than Boise, Memphis, Houston or SMU ever will.

As for your D1 Patriot league. If it included Duke, UNC, UVA, Wake, Navy, Army, Vandy, Northwestern and Rice...and if UConn was invited, UConn joins in a heartbeat, just to rub shoulders with the academic elite.

 

[orangehomer]

i think it is fun to watch how people basically pick what they want to happen, and then search out every scrap of info they can use to substantiate their desired outcome. as if everybody on the internet has some unique ability to predict the future. or that everyone is some kind of internet sleuth that is going to be the person to find the secret internet source with intimate knowledge that is going to blow the whole story open.

it makes me think of game of thrones, where everyone thinks that everything that happens is some sort of endgame, but it never ends. there is no endgame. football programs, tv contracts, conferences, will always be rising and falling. there is no "winner".

 

[CL82]

i think it is fun to watch how people basically pick what they want to happen, and then search out every scrap of info they can use to substantiate their desired outcome. as if everybody on the internet has some unique ability to predict the future. or that everyone is some kind of internet sleuth that is going to be the person to find the secret internet source with intimate knowledge that is going to blow the whole story open.

it makes me think of game of thrones, where everyone thinks that everything that happens is some sort of endgame, but it never ends. there is no endgame. football programs, tv contracts, conferences, will always be rising and falling. there is no "winner".

Well to me conf realignment is a lot like playoff sports. The goal is to survive and advance. For those of us still in the Big East those aren't certainies, so it makes reaching for scraps interesting especially during the off season.

 

[observer]

I think the difference, and a source of friction in the ACC, is that there are teams in the ACC that are not trying. BCU, Miami, Duke and Syracuse really aren't even trying in football. Wake and Georgia Tech have spectacular football coaches, but they are in the same bucket. Basketball is a different animal, although both Duke and Syracuse are riding two of the top coaches of the past 3 decades. It will be interesting to see how they replace the two legends. That is why I think my D1 "Patriot League" outcome is a very real possibility. If they could make enough money in a TV contract to stabilize their athletic department finances but have no chance of competing at the highest level, I think half the ACC schools would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

On the other hand, Boise, Memphis, Houston and SMU seem very focused on being very successful in at least one sport.

Trying, how do you define trying? Have a look here and see how they define trying...http://businessofcollegesports.com/...ketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/

FB expenses:

BC 17.9mil
Miami 17.8 mil
Syr 15.3 mil
UConn 14.4 mil
Duke 14.3 mil or $100,000 behind a school that is really trying.

Oh, and UConn also hired Pasqualani as head coach, a guy whose last college gig ended with him being run out of town for bad results at a school that is not trying.

Care to re-think 'trying?'

 

[RS9999X]

Spending is not trying. Ask the Flipper and other overpaid ADs.

 

[observer]

Spending is not trying. Ask the Flipper and other overpaid ADs.

So what is trying?

How do you measure it?

One more 40 yarder for everybody on the team?

After all isn't the whole everybody to the Big12 whoopdedoo about possibly getting more money to compete with the SEC and B1G, so seems some people think that money and trying are sort of connected.

 

[junglehusky]

Do, or do not do. There is no try.

 

[jrazz12]

Does anyone else have a problem with a list that says that Auburn basketball generates 2 million more per year in straight revenue than UConn hoops?

 

[freescooter]

Perhaps. At this moment in time. But at other moments in time, Bama and LSU were lousy. USC between Robinson and Carrol was feeble. BC has botched things. But both Clemson and VT went to BCS bowls last year (and lost). GT has produced some great NFL talent, but can't seem to pull it together. UNC will come out of sanctions and try very hard to be great at football. UVA doesn't try. Duke doesn't try. BC tries and is just inept.

I prefer the long view. There is no reason why the programs in the ACC can't become strong, major players at football. They have more going for them, and more resources than Boise, Memphis, Houston or SMU ever will.

As for your D1 Patriot league. If it included Duke, UNC, UVA, Wake, Navy, Army, Vandy, Northwestern and Rice...and if UConn was invited, UConn joins in a heartbeat, just to rub shoulders with the academic elite.

You know that the ACC has not really produced a home-grown strong, major player since, oh I don't know, 1990...They are really pretty rare. The only teams that they have had that are serious national contenders since then have been relatively new to the ACC, Florida State (joined 1992) and VaTech (2004). The last time North Carolina ended the season ranked was 1997. Clemson has been a Top 25 team a few times recently, but its last Top 20 finish was in 2000. Haven't had a team in the Top 10 since before Florida State joined the conference. It simply is not a serious power conference.

 

[huskymedic]

From the Clemson folks (@cfravel247)

 

[Murph]

From the Clemson folks (@cfravel247)

Kinda shows you how far down the totem pole we are when we're trying to get into a conference that Clemson considers a sinking ship.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[HuskyHawk]

You know that the ACC has not really produced a home-grown strong, major player since, oh I don't know, 1990...They are really pretty rare. The only teams that they have had that are serious national contenders since then have been relatively new to the ACC, Florida State (joined 1992) and VaTech (2004). The last time North Carolina ended the season ranked was 1997. Clemson has been a Top 25 team a few times recently, but its last Top 20 finish was in 2000. Haven't had a team in the Top 10 since before Florida State joined the conference. It simply is not a serious power conference.

I get it. FSU dominated the 90's. Nebraska dominated the 70's. In the 90's Nebraska and Miami ruled. USC was probably the best program of the 2000-09 period along with Florida. A few SEC teams dominate the 10's so far. My point is only that if you looked at Oregon not that long ago, you'd say the same thing. They had done probably less than UNC has. TCU was weak. K-State before Snyder was the dead solid worst program in all of D1A. Boise wasn't even a boil on anyone's ass.

If Oregon can win, and K-State can win, then North Carolina, among the most popular universities in the country for high school kids applying, can win if they really want to and hire the right coach. By the way, the final 2011 rankings included 4 ACC schools in the top 25. VT and FSU were 16-17. It hasn't been great and maybe it won't improve, but I suspect that it will (but never to B1G or SEC levels).

 

[traitor71]

BCU, Miami, Duke and Syracuse really aren't even trying in football.

What is the definition of not trying? Hiring a new coach, being in on many of the "top" recruits, and dumping millions into the athletic facilities? Makes me wonder what in the heck constitutes trying.

 

[husky91]

Umm, it won't be UNC, uVA or MD. If ACC implodes they get first invites to B1G. So not answering the question exactly.

That would not be appealing. If somehow Rutgers and UConn can be in a group that includes some of the old BE schools (minus perhaps VT), plus some of UVa, Maryland, and UNC (if they don't go to the Big Ten), and some of the new BE, that might be adequate if not quite appealing. Whether that scenario involves the ACC leftovers taking in UConn/Rutgers or the NBE leftovers taking in some of the ACC schools, I wouldn't care. But either way it's admittedly unlikely.

 

[businesslawyer]

Umm, it won't be UNC, uVA or MD. If ACC implodes they get first invites to B1G. So not answering the question exactly.

Out of curiosity, if the Big Ten wanted ND and UVA, what is keeping them from inviting them in NOW? On what planet do you think Jim Delaney is going to let the Big XII determine the Big Ten's destiny? Not on this one.

 

[UConnDan97]

Out of curiosity, if the Big Ten wanted ND and UVA, what is keeping them from inviting them in NOW? On what planet do you think Jim Delaney is going to let the Big XII determine the Big Ten's destiny? Not on this one.

I should have prefaced my "like" button by saying I agree 100% about UVA. Everyone wants ND, and ND wants nobody. But UVA....yeah, there's nothing going on there...

 

[lv99]

I agree with businesslawyer. If the Big 10 wanted any ACC team, they could have taken them 2 years ago when they took Nebraska. Or before then. All these conferences moves have been about football. This is why the ACC first took teams from the Big East. They wanted to improve their football. They knew they were in trouble back then. The Big 10 isn't suddenly going to take teams just because the Big 12 or SEC is taking teams.

I think we are starting to get some backlash with conference realignment. An SEC official has warned Neinas that 14 teams is awkward to deal with and that he might not want to expand beyond 12. It's turning out the TV people don't really want to pay much more to the SEC for adding Missouri and Texas A&M - it turns out that adding markets just so you can expand your conference network presence isn't worth it.

Jim Delaney has said that if they were to expand beyond 12, teams wouldn't play each other very often. This is really true. Even with just twelve it's bad enough.

The reason why the ACC is getting a bad contract isn't all Wake Forest's, Boston College's, and Duke's fault. Only 4 teams in the ACC (Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Virginia Tech) have significant national and/or regional valuations for TV marketing purposes. North Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland, despite being flagship universities in the AAU, just really aren't that valuable. Rutgers is in a big state, is the flagship university for its state, and is in the AAU too, but nobody has been in a hurry to get them.

 

[CL82]

It seems to me that conference realignment has bee driven by insecurity. The ACC is worried about losing FSU so the raid the BE schools who in turn are worried about a conference that's about as sturdy as the last few turns of a Jenga game. Big 12 is worried about Texas, as is aTm, as is Missouri, so they expand to insulate themselves. Everyone is concerned about what someone else might do, so they are proactive (except for the BE corporate offices, where they apparently have a really good COD game going most of the time so they only do something when the house on fire) and that starts off the next round of reactions.

As conferences get bigger, however, the loss of anyone member is less critical. I wonder if we are heading into a period of relative stability, if FSU doesn bolt. Ours is the only major TV contract left, and it's highly unlike (IMO) that we won't see a big improvement. If the ACC can keep it's together, things should settle down at least until our new contract comes out. If it tops their contract, and that is a possibility, then there's probably one more round but after that it's hard to see why someone would move.

Note I'm not saying that this great for Connecticut, because it means we are in the BE for the foreseeable future. If we get a decent TV contract that's not the worst thing, as it will allow us to keep up with the 'arms war' that is modern college athletics by up grading our facilities. In the meantime we'll be a in a football conference that we can compete and continue to improve and BB conference that we can dominate. It's not what I would choose, but it's not the end of the world.

 

[freescooter]

I get it. FSU dominated the 90's. Nebraska dominated the 70's. In the 90's Nebraska and Miami ruled. USC was probably the best program of the 2000-09 period along with Florida. A few SEC teams dominate the 10's so far. My point is only that if you looked at Oregon not that long ago, you'd say the same thing. They had done probably less than UNC has. TCU was weak. K-State before Snyder was the dead solid worst program in all of D1A. Boise wasn't even a boil on anyone's ass.

If Oregon can win, and K-State can win, then North Carolina, among the most popular universities in the country for high school kids applying, can win if they really want to and hire the right coach. By the way, the final 2011 rankings included 4 ACC schools in the top 25. VT and FSU were 16-17. It hasn't been great and maybe it won't improve, but I suspect that it will (but never to B1G or SEC levels).

Apparently you don't get it...Florida State WAS the ACC as far as football is concerned. They lost 7 ACC games in their history before the first expansion. They were the moving force behind the first ACC expansion, which they misread badly and which ended up actually hurting them. As far as North Carolina goes, they thought they had the right coach and all he did was get them into eithical and NCAA trouble. And they don't care that much about football anyway...if UNC-Duke played hoops at the same time as UNC played Florida State in football, the only ones at the football game would be the people who couldn't get into the basketball game, and they'd all be tuned to hoops on their smartphones!

 

[businesslawyer]

I should have prefaced my "like" button by saying I agree 100% about UVA. Everyone wants ND, and ND wants nobody. But UVA....yeah, there's nothing going on there...

That is my fault for a typo. I meant Maryland -- MD -- and not Notre Dame -- ND. My fault totally.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Apparently you don't get it...Florida State WAS the ACC as far as football is concerned. They lost 7 ACC games in their history before the first expansion. They were the moving force behind the first ACC expansion, which they misread badly and which ended up actually hurting them. As far as North Carolina goes, they thought they had the right coach and all he did was get them into eithical and NCAA trouble. And they don't care that much about football anyway...if UNC-Duke played hoops at the same time as UNC played Florida State in football, the only ones at the football game would be the people who couldn't get into the basketball game, and they'd all be tuned to hoops on their smartphones!

The same is true if UConn played Duke at hoops at the same time our football team played FSU.

 

[businesslawyer]

The same is true if UConn played Duke at hoops at the same time our football team played FSU.

I don't think that's true. I think UConn has disproportionately more hoop-focused fans than pigskin-focused fans compared to many of our I-A brethren (especially when you get off the Atlantic seaboard), but I think UConn has plenty of football fans who wouldn't dream of missing a game against FSU just because the basketball team was playing Duke.

 

[UConnDan97]

I don't think that's true. I think UConn has disproportionately more hoop-focused fans than pigskin-focused fans compared to many of our I-A brethren (especially when you get off the Atlantic seaboard), but I think UConn has plenty of football fans who wouldn't dream of missing a game against FSU just because the basketball team was playing Duke.

I have DVR. I ain't missin' $#it!!

 

[businesslawyer]

I have DVR. I ain't missin' $#it!!

You're young enough to know how to work a DVR?

(I am joking, but not by much.)

 

[CTMike]

I don't think that's true. I think UConn has disproportionately more hoop-focused fans than pigskin-focused fans compared to many of our I-A brethren (especially when you get off the Atlantic seaboard), but I think UConn has plenty of football fans who wouldn't dream of missing a game against FSU just because the basketball team was playing Duke.

It's funny... 15 years ago, I would never have thought I'd be more of a UConn football fan than hoops fan. Hell, even 10 years ago it was still so new. But I've been all in since then... and while I relish beating the Dookies on the hardwood, I gotta say that I wouldn't miss a UConn/FSU football matchup.