The ACC move

[CL82]

Those are all positives. However, I have little faith in the ACC leadership. They've been pantsed quite a bit. Swofford is not as smart as he and others think he is.

You know you don't have to be faster than the bear, you just need to be faster than the guy next to you. Swofford may not be Einstein but positioned his league better than his counterparts in the Big East. Thus we are the league that is destined to become bear scat.

 

[The Funster]

You know you don't have to be faster than the bear, you just need to be faster than the guy next to you. Swofford may not be Einstein but positioned his league better than his counterparts in the Big East. Thus we are the league that is destined to become bear scat.

Yep, and now that the NNNBE is likely out of the way, Swofford's ACC is now the slowest guy. Swofford out-maneuvering Tranghese and Marinatto is no big deal.

 

[upstater]

Yep, and now that the NNNBE is likely out of the way, Swofford's ACC is now the slowest guy. Swofford out-maneuvering Tranghese and Marinatto is no big deal.

Doesn't this all speak to the fact, though, that Swofford read the writing on the wall many years ago?

Let's go back in time: if the ACC is a mere 9 team league now, where does that get them? Miami and VT were big gets for them regardless. It would have happened inevitably.

 

[SubbaBub]

The only downside to this rumored move is that we will never know.what the true value of the NNBE TV deal would have been. I'm curious but, OK with that.

I suspect there are others glad that numbers won't see the light of day.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[businesslawyer]

Yep, and now that the NNNBE is likely out of the way, Swofford's ACC is now the slowest guy. Swofford out-maneuvering Tranghese and Marinatto is no big deal.

I'm just not sure that is true. The ACC is the slowest guy if you are assuming Texas doesn't leave the Big XII. I don't think Texas leaving, though, for the Big Ten, SEC or Pac Ten one day is totally out of the question. And, despite quality of play (which we've seen means very little), without TX the ACC is likely to survive over the Big XII.

 

[Chuck]

Was

Yep, and now that the NNNBE is likely out of the way, Swofford's ACC is now the slowest guy. Swofford out-maneuvering Tranghese and Marinatto is no big deal.

Was Swofford's mistake trying to out maneuver the Big East when he could've finished the B12? If he had attacked the B12 either separately, or at the same time he was going after the Big East, it may've nudged the B12 powers to the PAC and the ACC would be the weakest of the Big 4 rather than Big 5.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Actually, you are wrong. It was very personal for the schools that left. Because each ACC raid of the Big East was predicated on the fact that by taking 2 or 3 teams, the ACC could put the Big East out of business, essentially destroying the league and the athletic programs within it. Every time the ACC would grab a BCU or Syracuse, they would go running back to ESPN and ask, with their tail wagging, "will you give us credit for the Northeast now?" The point of those raids was to make UConn a mid-major. Do you really think that Syracuse and Pitt are valuable athletic programs in their own right?

If the 9 football (with TCU) and 8 hoops schools had stuck together, the league would have already signed a contract worth at least what the ACC is making. That Big East was better on the field, on the court and in the ratings than the ACC.

Or, the ACC could have gone to the Big East and said "we have this crappy long-term TV deal, why don't we merge into your league so we can get out of that deal and all make a lot of money?" But they didn't do that, probably because Swofford may not have survived that process. They convinced Pitt and Syracuse to stab everyone else in the back, which caused the Big East to ultimately unravel but didn't really help the ACC's with their below-market, long-term TV deal. The current solution is the worst of all worlds. The Big East is gone, never having gotten its big TV deal that it was due. The left-behinds are relegated to permanent mid-major status, and the ACC STILL has a crappy TV deal, making it incredibly vulnerable.

Just because their are worse outcomes does not mean UConn going to this configuration of the ACC is a good one. It is just UConn trying to make the best of a bad situation, which will continue to be bad into the future.

Where is conspiracy kitty?

Why don't we apply some reality instead? The ACC was a successful, but small league. It needed to upgrade football in particular, and added Miami, VT and BC, all of whom were considered very strong programs at the time. They also added FSU. As the landscape changed they saw the emerging 16 team paradigm, and made the move to expand and add Syracuse and Pitt. I think they believe they can get Notre Dame to join for all sports when the NBC contract expires.

The Big East was doomed the moment it crossed the Mississippi river to find members. It became the original CUSA. Think what you will, but the power resides with flagship state universities and a few well to do private schools. Urban commuter schools like Houston and Memphis, and even state run, city based schools like UCF, USF, Louisville and Cincy are perpetually relegated to the second tier (Pitt has been lucky due to much stronger academics and history than most such schools).

This is not an attack on the Big East, it's the powerful schools consolidating power, and denying it to those they find unworthy. This is why UConn and Rutgers are viewed more highly than UL and Cincy, and always will be. If there is a conspiracy here, it's about making sure those lower tier universities don't rise above their station, not animosity to any particular league.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Doesn't this all speak to the fact, though, that Swofford read the writing on the wall many years ago?

Let's go back in time: if the ACC is a mere 9 team league now, where does that get them? Miami and VT were big gets for them regardless. It would have happened inevitably.

Yes, all it really amounts to is a merger of the ACC and Big East, with the unfortunate loss of Rutgers. Viewed in that light, I think we'd be hard pressed to deny that if the initial move was positioned instead as a merger of the BE football playing schools with the ACC, plus retention of ND as an "affiliate" for scheduling, it would have been viewed as anything but a great move for both leagues.

 

[uconNYC]

I actually think ACC has potential to be a strong football league. Schools like UNC, NCState, VTech, Miami are just struggling right now. If they just played to their average potential - the league is as good as the PAC-12.

I too have a soft spot for the Big East, but one reason I would be thrilled to join that conference is so that I no longer will feel obligated to root for teams based on what it means for the future of the conference. With the Big East it felt like every loss by a Big East team meant the conferences grave was getting bigger - be it TV Rights, Bowl alignments or public perception.

 

[ctchamps]

For those of us who aren't football centric, the demise of the BE is sad. I loved the progression of the UConn's mens bb program within the BE and on the national scale. Georgetown, Syracuse, St. Johns and Nova were the dominant names but JC eventually made UConn the premier team in the BE which turned out to be the premier conference in the nation. The conference that the BE overtook as the premier conference was the ACC which is why going to the ACC is hard for some of us. I accept the potential realities facing UConn's future but it is bittersweet.

My hope was that football would have the same trajectory as basketball. And actually the program was off to a promising start that was far quicker than most of us realistically expected. The reality was that the universities in the BE who joined it for football were always too many steps behind the big players. And those big players were going to do what was necessary to protect their turf. It wasn't a conspiracy. It was logical and pragmatic that once a BE football coach became successful, that coach became a consideration for those "bigger programs" which were struggling.

The landscape was always one of flux, but the rate of flux was accelerated considerably when conferences realized how much money the networks were making off them and the conferences made the determination to take some of the share. Hence the activity to poach universities increased at a frenetic pace. The activity had some overall logic to it, but the primary mover was how to position conferences for the best media deals. Some of the thought was to bring better competition into the conferences. Some was about markets. Some was just to change numbers to get a renegotiation of terms. There was as much guesswork as there was logic to the activity.

There is a lot of sour grapes about the basketball only schools resistance to change as being an impediment to the football schools success. Those schools did exactly what they were supposed to do, advocate for their position. The football schools had the option of breaking away at any time. They couldn't come up with a consensus so they broke away piecemeal.

The ACC is not out of the woods. Delaney has declared war on ND and thus the ACC because it has taken in ND. My feeling is Delaney takes one more ACC team (I'm sure he would prefer Virginia to keep the contiguous footprint) and if he can poach one more ACC team to really weaken them he takes UConn as well. This will strengthen his reach into the NY market and give the Big ten a solid footprint in the I-95 corridor. It would be a brilliant strategy to eliminate two conferences, neutralize ND as much as possible and accelerate the process of removing third party media from the monies that rightfully belong to the universities.

 

[upstater]

The biggest problem for UConn is the $50 million ACC fee for Maryland.

This will be litigated, IMO. The ACC will want to send a message to the rest of the league that the $50 million is for real, and if UMd wants to leave it will have to pay at least 80% of it. If not, they'll go to court.

This will mean UConn may be hanging for an invite for many years. Unless Maryland departs and lets the court system determine how much it owes.

Things are going to get ugly here.

 

[Vuce]

I disagree upstater - I thought that would be the case with the Big East rules then the revised Big East rules and ultimately if a school is invited somewhere else and they want to go, something will be worked out and they will bolt. It may be years of litigation but Maryland will be in the Big Ten as planned for the 2014-15 season. So will Rutgers.

 

[upstater]

I disagree upstater - I thought that would be the case with the Big East rules then the revised Big East rules and ultimately if a school is invited somewhere else and they want to go, something will be worked out and they will bolt. It may be years of litigation but Maryland will be in the Big Ten as planned for the 2014-15 season. So will Rutgers.

This is the first out of the barn for the ACC. They want to close those barn doors.

The BE had become used to the brutality.

 

[Chuck]

The biggest problem for UConn is the $50 million ACC fee for Maryland.

This will be litigated, IMO. The ACC will want to send a message to the rest of the league that the $50 million is for real, and if UMd wants to leave it will have to pay at least 80% of it. If not, they'll go to court.

This will mean UConn may be hanging for an invite for many years. Unless Maryland departs and lets the court system determine how much it owes.

Things are going to get ugly here.

Things may get ugly, but I can't see how Maryland will be in the ACC during the ugliness. They're gone. If the ACC doesn't have a notice provision (and maybe even if it does), they are gone starting in fall 2013. The $50 million may impact other moves. For example, will Clemson be as quick to move if Maryland gets dinged for $50mm or if a court makes a point of finding that the amount was lowered due to Maryland voting against the exit fee increase (Clemson apparently voted for the increase)? I don't know if this helps UConn or not, but I can't see how anything that has occurred will lead to the Terps being in the ACC for much longer.

 

[Vuce]

The statement from Swofford that was just on McMurphy's tweet was something like - they have been an outstanding member, we are sorry to see them leave. Doesn't sound like they are fighting it too much.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

The biggest problem for UConn is the $50 million ACC fee for Maryland.

This will be litigated, IMO. The ACC will want to send a message to the rest of the league that the $50 million is for real, and if UMd wants to leave it will have to pay at least 80% of it. If not, they'll go to court.

This will mean UConn may be hanging for an invite for many years. Unless Maryland departs and lets the court system determine how much it owes.

Things are going to get ugly here.

No, it's being reported MD will pay the fee.

 

[freescooter]

That is less than 2 years of big 10 revenue...which it has been reported the B-10 will lend them and recoup over 10 years. I've always said that no exit fee will prevent schools from switching conferences. make it 50 million, make it 500 million. At the end of the day it isn't in anyone's interest to keep a school that wants to be gone.

 

[The Funster]

I'm just not sure that is true. The ACC is the slowest guy if you are assuming Texas doesn't leave the Big XII. I don't think Texas leaving, though, for the Big Ten, SEC or Pac Ten one day is totally out of the question. And, despite quality of play (which we've seen means very little), without TX the ACC is likely to survive over the Big XII.

We can't assume Texas is doing anything and until they do, the ACC is on the bottom of the big 5 conferences.

 

[uconNYC]

Biggest issue for UConn is actually FSU's BCS ranking. ACC will feel pressure to add a school that helps their football side. Kinda stinks because only 2 years ago we were the up-and-coming football side and UL were a total mess.

 

[businesslawyer]

We can't assume Texas is doing anything and until they do, the ACC is on the bottom of the big 5 conferences.

Not what I said. The ACC is clearly #5 of the 5. We were talking, however, about whether they would be the one to be pushed out if the world ever changes to 4. Totally different analysis.

 

[junglehusky]

Will it still be litigated if Plank just sends over a briefcase full of cold hard cash?

 

[uconNYC]

We can't assume Texas is doing anything and until they do, the ACC is on the bottom of the big 5 conferences.

Only a year back the B12 was close to collapse and no one wanted anything to do with University of Texas.

 

[sportsart]

With PP and GDL in charge I'm looking forward to losing to Duke and Wake Forest on a regular basis. Yippee......

 

[pepband99]

Will it still be litigated if Plank just sends over a briefcase full of cold hard cash?

This.

 

[RS9999X]

They will argue about the number. Maryland's "No" vote will be a court issue both parties want to avoid as it is recent and was imposed top down

The BiG wll be offering $30 mil plus in media money by the time the new playoff distribution contracts are signed and the 2017 Tier I contracts. I think its possible they double the ACC in payouts in 2017. They payout $25 mil now,