That's what an exhausted team looks like

[ConnHuskBask]

@AntG168 you're original quote

Què¿? Remembering history is important here. DeAndre Daniels and Niels Giffey were not viewed as they are viewed now at the start of the 2012 season. Going into that season we expected to have an talented but irratic shabazz who wasn't a leader, and a young athletic yet inconsistent boat. Ollie coached those kids up. That's where your failing to give him credit. Going into the season that team wasn't supposed to be that good in that big East. Ollie had those guys beating top 25 teams knowing they had no hope of the tourney. You undersellimg how big of an accomplishment that was. Calhoun had a loaded squad with tourney aspirations and did slightly better by the numbers, but his team underacheived while Ollie's overachieved

They were 20-12 (10-8) and if not banned for the post season, they would have been an NIT team. It's a very good coaching job for a first year coach in a tough situation.

Yes masterpiece. Calhoun did worse the year before with better talent. And v 20 wins in that big East was a great achievement. Who had them winning 20 games?

Also, this is your original quote, which was proven wrong by Ken Pom and RPI. It wasn't who over/under achieved.

I'm sorry, a tournament team lost a handful of players - like nearly every tournament does - and then went on to win 20 games. Winning an NCAA title is a masterpiece, the first season was a very good job, but the last three have stunk.

I just would like to know why after damn near two decades of ranked squads, deep NCAA runs and 4 national titles, we're accepting close wins vs lousy AAC teams and giving the tired excuse against a team with an actual pulse in Houston.

This is not UConn Basketball and Ollie needs to figure it out and quickly. He's ours for what I deem to be better, than worse, but the last three seasons there has been a lot of talent and extremely underwhelming results. Not for nothing but even the 2014 title team had a pretty poor regular season as well.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

Exactly this. Some seasons you'll win your share of close games, some reasons you'll lose them. It's basketball.

The most startling development is that consistent themes of bad offense, reliant on 3s or a star player in isolation (Napier, Boat, Hamilton, Adams), falling behind early, boxing out, no discipline and not handling adversity.

You mean to tell me that after 3 seasons, Rodney is STILL catching the ball with his foot out of bounds or the fact Brimah still has no idea when he should stay with his man and guard/get a or board or when he should sell out of the block isn't a coaching issue? Stuff like that drives me insane.

 

[AntG168]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

2012/2013. We had a lot of bounces go our way. Our offense was working the shot clock and having Shabazz jack an isolation jumper or having Boat throw his body at the rim. Having a once-in-a-lifetime college player like Shabazz certainly improves your chances. Boat was fairly inconsistent all year, but dependable to get into the paint. We couldn't rebound for and pretty much grinded out half of our close games. Hence the 20-10 and mid-pack Big East finish. That season was a grind. It wasn't a "happy-lucky" 20 win season. We fought for every game, caught a lot of teams on their toes.

Our offense is still dependent on hitting 3's and a lot of pick and roll isolation situations. You see the downside now of not having Shabazz and a slasher that can finish at the rim. I would argue our rebounding is better now than 2012/2013 by far.

KO has fiddled around with certain set plays this year but nothing has stuck. Having two All-American worthy guards makes wonders for your offense and can mask a lot of coaching inabilities - I don't think KO has worked his way around this.

"You guys look at W's and Los too much".......That maybe the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Isn't that what matters? That team had a push and pride about them that can be directly attributed to KO. The development of bazz, Boat, Giffey, and Daniels that season can be directly attributed to KO. "Grinding out wins" takes good coaching, good coaches win close games. "Caught teams on their heels" whatever you want to call it we beat GOOD teams that no one had us beating. Just admit KO coached his ass of his first 2 seasons and hasn't been as good the last 3. But even his last 3 have been pretty good OVERALL

 

[AntG168]

I didn't mean "same players" exactly, but same level of talent. Napier and Daniels were much improved, as was Boatright. The 11-12 team may have been a little better, but Drummond never really fit.

They were much improved because of KO. And it wasn't the same level of talent. Maybe the players fit better together, but that 2011 team was one of our most talented teams at UCONN
They're were 3 pros on that team. Along with Boat, Daniels, Giffey, and roscoe. That team was #4 in the preseason. Let's not distort history

 

[Tenspro2002]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

2012/2013. We had a lot of bounces go our way. Our offense was working the shot clock and having Shabazz jack an isolation jumper or having Boat throw his body at the rim. Having a once-in-a-lifetime college player like Shabazz certainly improves your chances. Boat was fairly inconsistent all year, but dependable to get into the paint. We couldn't rebound for and pretty much grinded out half of our close games. Hence the 20-10 and mid-pack Big East finish. That season was a grind. It wasn't a "happy-lucky" 20 win season. We fought for every game, caught a lot of teams on their toes.

Our offense is still dependent on hitting 3's and a lot of pick and roll isolation situations. You see the downside now of not having Shabazz and a slasher that can finish at the rim. I would argue our rebounding is better now than 2012/2013 by far.

KO has fiddled around with certain set plays this year but nothing has stuck. Having two All-American worthy guards makes wonders for your offense and can mask a lot of coaching inabilities - I don't think KO has worked his way around this.

Even in the Tournament in 2014. We won on the basis of: 1) suffocating team defense, 2) impeccable free throw shooting, and 3) Shabazz Napier hero ball.

Seriously, watch the highlights. What fraction of our scoring was Shabazz making a contested 22-footer late in the shot clock? Probably 20%? He was unreal, and there's no way we get nearly as far without him hitting momentum-changing and back-breaking 3's that had zero to do with the flow of our offense.

Credit KO for #1 and #2, but 5 years in he still is a mediocre offensive coach, despite this being one of his supposed strengths coming from the NBA.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Just admit KO coached his ass of his first 2 seasons and hasn't been as good the last 3. But even his last 3 have been pretty good OVERALL

Is anyone here debating he didn't have a good first season and a great second season?

Where we disagree is the last seasons. They haven't been pretty good. Pretty good coaching isn't NIT, 9 seed and first weekend exit, no postseason. That's delusional.

 

[AntG168]

Is anyone here debating he didn't have a good first season and a great second season?

Where we disagree is the last seasons. They haven't been pretty good. Pretty good coaching isn't NIT, 8 seed, no postseason. That's delusional.

On its face it's not. In my opinion last year was "pretty good". Boat and Co. was hard to watch. This year is a lot more about injuries than KO having a bad coaching year

 

[CTBasketball]

"You guys look at W's and Los too much"..That maybe the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Isn't that what matters? That team had a push and pride about them that can be directly attributed to KO. The development of bazz, Boat, Giffey, and Daniels that season can be directly attributed to KO. "Grinding out wins" takes good coaching, good coaches win close games. "Caught teams on their heels" whatever you want to call it we beat GOOD teams that no one had us beating. Just admit KO coached his ass of his first 2 seasons and hasn't been as good the last 3. But even his last 3 have been pretty good OVERALL

Of course wins matter. Wins didn't matter in 2012/2013 = no pressure.

I would attribute "coaching his ass off" to mean "Shabazz played great." The coaching hasn't changed much. Tenspro's comment on Shabazz Hero Ball is 100% spot on. Same with the emergence of DeAndre Daniels. Everyone gives KO credit for Daniels 2014 March run. But he was a wildly mediocre player set for his senior season before that run. So what do we remember more? KO getting the best out of Daniels for 6 games? Or KO not tapping Daniels potential for the rest of his 2-3 seasons?

I'll take the larger sample size.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Is anyone here debating he didn't have a good first season and a great second season?

Where we disagree is the last seasons. They haven't been pretty good. Pretty good coaching isn't NIT, 9 seed and first weekend exit, no postseason. That's delusional.

I thought the first season was "average", they did about what any competent coach would have them do. Second season very good, but I think that team got very lucky, playing great D and winning games with Shabbaz being brilliant. Since then the coaching has been average to below average. Injuries aside, Ollie did a horrible job having this team ready to play going in to the season. Those first games are on him, and they barely scraped out a win over LMU or it would be even worse.

That said, I think his recruiting has been good. I think he's still learning the reality of the modern college game, and developing as a coach. I also think that his personal issues off the court significantly affected him last year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Of course wins matter. Wins didn't matter in 2012/2013 = no pressure.

I would attribute "coaching his ass off" to mean "Shabazz played great." The coaching hasn't changed much. Tenspro's comment on Shabazz Hero Ball is 100% spot on. Same with the emergence of DeAndre Daniels. Everyone gives KO credit for Daniels 2014 March run. But he was a wildly mediocre player set for his senior season before that run. So what do we remember more? KO getting the best out of Daniels for 6 games? Or KO not tapping Daniels potential for the rest of his 2-3 seasons?

I'll take the larger sample size.

And Facey is Daniels 2.0 He had this game all along and Ollie wouldn't let him show it. He did get stronger, and plays better D now, but he had the rebounding and offensive game since he got here.

 

[7774]

And Facey is Daniels 2.0 He had this game all along and Ollie wouldn't let him show it. He did get stronger, and plays better D now, but he had the rebounding and offensive game since he got here.

What on earth?

 

[CTBasketball]

And Facey is Daniels 2.0 He had this game all along and Ollie wouldn't let him show it. He did get stronger, and plays better D now, but he had the rebounding and offensive game since he got here.

Eh I disagree. Facey was pretty one dimensional his freshman year.

But can we get back on track and discuss how tired our Huskies are?

 

[AntG168]

Eh I disagree. Facey was pretty one dimensional his freshman year.

But can we get back on track and discuss how tired our Huskies are?

LOL I think they were mentally fatigued. But I call BS on them being physically fatigued, don't buy it

 

[CTBasketball]

LOL I think they were mentally fatigued. But I call BS on them being physically fatigued, don't buy it

I wouldn't call it physical fatigue at all either. I have a feeling that when things get tough and a team goes on a run late, we just cramp up and collapse. That's mental fatigue.

 

[Pudge]

You are leaving out two things about last night:

1.) Houston playing 6 are a pretty dammn good team. Good solid guards in Robinson and Gray. Davis, Dotson and Chickenman are effective talented wings. And Meyer was a surprise. He out hustled us all over.

2.) Gosh Bob Wenzel. I never liked him. But, he was precisely hitting on our deficiencies and was ahead of the curve on that game and the players. He actually did a good job.

 

[Waquoit]

2.) Gosh Bob Wenzel. I never liked him. But, he was precisely hitting on our deficiencies and was ahead of the curve on that game and the players. He actually did a good job.

I like Wenzel on our games. He knows the program and it's history better than most.

 

[HuskyHawk]

What on earth?

He's been an excellent rebounder from the beginning. He showed solid offensive moves in the post early on, certainly by his sophomore year. His defense wasn't good, and as a result (I assume) he didn't earn much time. Certainly he deserved more minutes last year. I think he was under-utilized.

Look at his per 40 minutes stats and advanced stats. Kentan Facey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

 

[7774]

He's been an excellent rebounder from the beginning. He showed solid offensive moves in the post early on, certainly by his sophomore year. His defense wasn't good, and as a result (I assume) he didn't earn much time. Certainly he deserved more minutes last year. I think he was under-utilized.

Look at his per 40 minutes stats and advanced stats. Kentan Facey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

I'm familiar with his 40 minute stats. He committed 6.7 fouls per 40 minutes last year, and this year it's 3.2. I don't know what "deserved more minutes" means in your mind, but no one is going to play a lot when they average a foul every 6 minutes. You can't play 30 minutes a game when on average you would foul out in 29.9

 

[champs99and04]

Even in the Tournament in 2014. We won on the basis of: 1) suffocating team defense, 2) impeccable free throw shooting, and 3) Shabazz Napier hero ball.

Seriously, watch the highlights. What fraction of our scoring was Shabazz making a contested 22-footer late in the shot clock? Probably 20%? He was unreal, and there's no way we get nearly as far without him hitting momentum-changing and back-breaking 3's that had zero to do with the flow of our offense.

Credit KO for #1 and #2, but 5 years in he still is a mediocre offensive coach, despite this being one of his supposed strengths coming from the NBA.

So you're saying that a championship team generated a lot of their offense from a player scoring one on one? No kidding, that's every basketball team ever.

Coaching defense has been a bigger problem at times over the last three seasons, especially this year.

 

[champs99and04]

He's been an excellent rebounder from the beginning. He showed solid offensive moves in the post early on, certainly by his sophomore year. His defense wasn't good, and as a result (I assume) he didn't earn much time. Certainly he deserved more minutes last year. I think he was under-utilized.

Look at his per 40 minutes stats and advanced stats. Kentan Facey College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Facey has never been, and still isn't, nearly as good as Daniels. Sometimes I struggle to understand why Facey is perceived in such a better light on here than Brimah. He's hit the wall harder than anybody over the last six games.

 

[Tenspro2002]

So you're saying that a championship team generated a lot of their offense from a player scoring one on one? No kidding, that's every basketball team ever.

Coaching defense has been a bigger problem at times over the last three seasons, especially this year.

There's a difference between one player scoring a lot and one player launching contested 3's late in the shot clock after having a useless possession.

If you can't tell the difference between our offense under KO and what our offense used to look like in JC's heyday (granted, with better players), I don't know what to tell you. But the fact is, KO's offensive coaching -- save some nice sets coming out of timeouts this year -- has overall been lacking.

 

[7774]

There's a difference between one player scoring a lot and one player launching contested 3's late in the shot clock after having a useless possession.

If you can't tell the difference between our offense under KO and what our offense used to look like in JC's heyday (granted, with better players), I don't know what to tell you. But the fact is, KO's offensive coaching -- save some nice sets coming out of timeouts this year -- has overall been lacking.

You're just massively exaggerating the amount of our points that came from Shabazz shooting contested 3's late in the shot clock.

20% is comical. There's no way 20% of our points came from Shabazz 3's, let alone 22 ft. contested ones at the end of the shot clock.

 

[Tenspro2002]

You're just massively exaggerating the amount of our points that came from Shabazz shooting contested 3's late in the shot clock.

20% is comical. There's no way 20% of our points came from Shabazz 3's, let alone 22 ft. contested ones at the end of the shot clock.

We scored 60, 63, and 60 from the Elite 8 onward. 20% is 4 3's.

Shabazz hit 4 3's against MSU (exactly 20% of our points).
Only 2 3's against Florida (slightly under 10%, fair)
He did hit 4 3's again vs. Kentucky (again, exactly 20%)

So 2 out of our last 3 games, 20% of our points came on Shabazz 3's. I would be shocked if any of those 8 baskets were assisted.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Writing off the offense of a national championship winning team as being the product of "hero-ball" by Shabazz is about as Tenspro as it gets.

 

[7774]

We scored 60, 63, and 60 from the Elite 8 onward. 20% is 4 3's.

Shabazz hit 4 3's against MSU (exactly 20% of our points).
Only 2 3's against Florida (slightly under 10%, fair)
He did hit 4 3's again vs. Kentucky (again, exactly 20%)

So 2 out of our last 3 games, 20% of our points came on Shabazz 3's. I would be shocked if any of those 8 baskets were assisted.

Why even bother typing this? All it proves is that even cherry picking games, eliminating half the tournament, and pretending 100% of his 3's were contested end of shot clock situations doesn't get you to 20%.