That's what an exhausted team looks like

[QDOG5]

How bout we go with UConn is a .500 team with .500 talent. Exhaustion, Brimah, Rodney, freshman etc. are all part of the bigger picture that this is a mediocre team. They've been trending upward in the second half of the season but are nonetheless not talented enough to do great things. Very frustrating but it is foolhardy to think this squad is going to do something special at the end of the season. I'll be happy with a .500 record and an NIT invite.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Zone is a problem because it makes it harder for our poor-rebounding team to rebound.

Umm...what? Compared to having our center standing on the 3 point line like last night, guarding a big who can shoot? Honestly when Brimah is in, he should never move more the 6 feet from the basket.

 

[KingAG]

If @AntG168 is going to proclaim that he did better than Calhoun, it's just flat out untrue.

For all the players that left the 2011/2012 team, the 2012/2013 still had a lot of talent:

Junior Napier, Sophomore Boatright, Sophomore Daniels, Junior Giffey, Freshman (healthy) Calhoun.

KO did a nice job keeping the program moving forward, but that was an NIT (had they been eligible) team, plain and simple.

I'll reiterate that I still think KO is the man for the job, but aside Napier morphing into the best player in college basketball in 2013/2014, we haven't been able to run consistent offense, we start games poorly, we make dumb plays over and over again, our bigs can't box out and when we are faced with in game adversity we usually fall apart.

The talent the past few years isn't classic UConn, that's a given and can be attributed to the ban and scholarship reductions, but there is absolutely enough talent that 1 NCAA tourney appearance in that time span is an indication of poor coaching. We're getting worked over in an AAC schedule yearly. I think the only reason that all of us aren't recognizing the huge issue is that we are feasting on AAC dredges, where as putting together a few 12 win seasons in the old Big East would have turned some heads.

Què¿? Remembering history is important here. DeAndre Daniels and Niels Giffey were not viewed as they are viewed now at the start of the 2012 season. Going into that season we expected to have an talented but irratic shabazz who wasn't a leader, and a young athletic yet inconsistent boat. Ollie coached those kids up. That's where your failing to give him credit. Going into the season that team wasn't supposed to be that good in that big East. Ollie had those guys beating top 25 teams knowing they had no hope of the tourney. You undersellimg how big of an accomplishment that was. Calhoun had a loaded squad with tourney aspirations and did slightly better by the numbers, but his team underacheived while Ollie's overachieved

 

[HuskyHawk]

Maybe it's your expectations that need to be adjusted?

In Ollie's "masterpiece" UConn was 20-10 (10-8) with a KenPom rating of 49 and an RPI of 47 in 2012/2013.

Calhoun did worse in 2011/2012? UConn was 20-14 (with the 8th toughest SOS) and had a KenPom rating of 38 and an RPI of 33.

I consider myself pretty moderate when it comes to the Ollie spectrum, but the Ollie is a doing a good job crowd is equally annoying as the fire Ollie crowd.

The past 3 seasons have been nowhere near UConn standards. NIT, 2nd Round Loss and no postseason. We may have had some lack of depth but we certainly have had the talent to perform better than we have.

And that season of Calhoun's was in his bottom 5 or so at UConn in terms of coaching. So doing worse than that isn't a "masterpiece". It's what I would call "mediocre". This season isn't even mediocre.

 

[KingAG]

It can be both.

They played like collective garbage for the entire 2nd half. Purvis had a horrific game. Looked like he didn't want the touch the ball.

Jalen is playing 39.9 minutes a game. He also tweaked something in the second half.

Ollie did not do a good job adjusting to Houstons 2nd half game plan.

So they all had a poor 20 minutes and unfortunately on the road against a decent team, that's going to get you a loss.

But they can also be mentally and physically exhausted from only carrying 6-7 scholarship players since November. If you extrapolate any more from this season other than the fact that they've had a tremendous amount of bad fortune and are being forced to give guys 30 minutes a game that might only get 10 or 15 ... then you need to settle down.

And another false claim. That was not an NIT team
They would have been headed to the tourney

 

[KingAG]

And that season of Calhoun's was in his bottom 5 or so at UConn in terms of coaching. So doing worse than that isn't a "masterpiece". It's what I would call "mediocre". This season isn't even mediocre.

Yes in damn near 30 years. Give KO 30 years and I'm sure this season will be his worst by far

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes in damn near 30 years. Give KO 30 years and I'm sure this season will be his worst by far

You missed the whole point. The season you called a "masterpiece" wasn't as good (with mostly the same players) as one by Calhoun I said was among his five worst.

I am not in the "fire Ollie" camp, and anyone who is should have their head examined. But holy crap people, he isn't setting the world on fire. Not having this team, preseason top 20 (and justifiably so) ready to play two cupcakes to start the season is simply unforgivable. I'm glad he finally got them to play better, but why is it always so short lived? Why can't they be consistently good under Ollie? My view at this point is that 2014 is the outlier, it's the aberration. He's gotten less than he should have out of his talent in every other season.

 

[KingAG]

You missed the whole point. The season you called a "masterpiece" wasn't as good (with mostly the same players) as one by Calhoun I said was among his five worst.

I am not in the "fire Ollie" camp, and anyone who is should have their head examined. But holy crap people, he isn't setting the world on fire. Not having this team, preseason top 20 (and justifiably so) ready to play two cupcakes to start the season is simply unforgivable. I'm glad he finally got them to play better, but why is it always so short lived? Why can't they be consistently good under Ollie? My view at this point is that 2014 is the outlier, it's the aberration. He's gotten less than he should have out of his talent in every other season.

I understand we agree on most points. My disagreement comes when you say "mostly with the same players" that's untrue. He lost his entire front court, along with the best player in Jeremy lamb. Those are major subtractions

 

[KingAG]

You missed the whole point. The season you called a "masterpiece" wasn't as good (with mostly the same players) as one by Calhoun I said was among his five worst.

I am not in the "fire Ollie" camp, and anyone who is should have their head examined. But holy crap people, he isn't setting the world on fire. Not having this team, preseason top 20 (and justifiably so) ready to play two cupcakes to start the season is simply unforgivable. I'm glad he finally got them to play better, but why is it always so short lived? Why can't they be consistently good under Ollie? My view at this point is that 2014 is the outlier, it's the aberration. He's gotten less than he should have out of his talent in every other season.

All in all Ollie has been good
But I agree with you he can be better....we NEED him to be better. But I just think it's unfair to subtract his 2 best years and judge him solely on the other 3

 

[Marty Jackson]

He gave AB quick hooks throughout the game. He's settled on keeping AB at the end of games to minimize opposing guards from driving into the lane and scoring. If you watch Steve, he plants himself in the post, seldom moving his feet to block shots. The result is either a foul or an easy layup by opposing quick players.

This was arguably Amida's worse game this season and that includes those games in which he fouled out quickly. It's a shame because this was a winnable game. But he wasn't alone. Pretty much everyone outside of Steve played below their average game particularly on offense. They had a lot of decent looks that they missed. Part of it is the pressure they put on themselves. This was an important game. Part of it is they have the type of personalities that tend to struggle when things start going wrong (except Vital imo) and a good part of it is fatigue both mental and physical.

I don't care what age we are, stress applied to our bodies impacts the bodies ability to perform and it's cumulative. It just the older we get the quicker the impact. But there is a threshold for everyone. Look at Nadal or Tiger. They were young when the stress caught up with them. These kids have played a lot of minutes. They've had to travel a lot. The argument regarding SMU having only six players is valid only if you conveniently overlook that those six players are above average for the positions they play. The primary six KO has to utilize are not of equal caliber. As good as Christian and Vance have been, and as good as the experience both are getting to help them in the future, I believe that if those two had season ending injuries instead of Terry and Alterique, the results would have turned out better this season because they are better players.

I strongly believe Jalen would not be as tired at this point of the season if Alterique was available as opposed to Christian. I'm obviously conjecturing and I want to make it clear that I love a player like Christian who is the epitome of gritty and plucky, but he is a back up type player and Alterique came in with star quality.

very fair...
I think that had you switched Kemba or even Shabazz with Jalen, the outcome may have been different.
I'm not making this a comparison of ability other than to say, Kemba and Shabazz had an ability to take the team on their back and carry them. They refused to lose. Whether it was making those on the floor better, or taking the ball into their own hands, there was a confidence in them that they were not going to lose. I think Gray on Houston showed that last night. Tough first half, kept his team close, started to feel it, and then boom!

We've seen flashes of that from Jalen, but a game like last night is where we didn't see it (for what ever reason)... Jalen needs to be that player every night. I think he'll get there, but last night should be an example of him not being that leader.
Until he does, we're going to see these stretches of pure listlessness.

 

[tjc1888]

You missed the whole point. The season you called a "masterpiece" wasn't as good (with mostly the same players) as one by Calhoun I said was among his five worst.

I am not in the "fire Ollie" camp, and anyone who is should have their head examined. But holy crap people, he isn't setting the world on fire. Not having this team, preseason top 20 (and justifiably so) ready to play two cupcakes to start the season is simply unforgivable. I'm glad he finally got them to play better, but why is it always so short lived? Why can't they be consistently good under Ollie? My view at this point is that 2014 is the outlier, it's the aberration. He's gotten less than he should have out of his talent in every other season.

Same players???? LOL. They lost Drummond, AO, Jeremy Lamb and Roscoe Smith.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

So you're saying they weren't tired for the first 20 minutes, had 15 minutes of rest at halftime, and then were suddenly tired?

UConn played great from minutes 1-20, and then Houston erased a 10-point deficit in 6 minutes. Being tired doesn't add up here.

Wouldn't it make sense for fatigue to kick in the deeper the game goes? More energy in the first 20 minutes, less in the last 20 minutes makes sense to me.

This team is short-handed and it is catching up to them. Mental mistakes and shots that fall just short are often signs of fatigue.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

very fair...
I think that had you switched Kemba or even Shabazz with Jalen, the outcome may have been different.
I'm not making this a comparison of ability other than to say, Kemba and Shabazz had an ability to take the team on their back and carry them. They refused to lose. Whether it was making those on the floor better, or taking the ball into their own hands, there was a confidence in them that they were not going to lose. I think Gray on Houston showed that last night. Tough first half, kept his team close, started to feel it, and then boom!

We've seen flashes of that from Jalen, but a game like last night is where we didn't see it (for what ever reason)... Jalen needs to be that player every night. I think he'll get there, but last night should be an example of him not being that leader.
Until he does, we're going to see these stretches of pure listlessness.

I think third year Jalen will be even better. Kemba and Bazz were much better in year 3 than they were in years 1 and 2. Bazz lead us to a title as a Senior. I think Jalen is farther along than Bazz at this point of their respective careers. That's not to say Jalen will be better, but he has the time to make that possible. Bazz had that killer-we-aren't-losing ability. Jalen may never quite get to Bazz's level in that regard, but again this is just his second season.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Same players???? LOL. They lost Drummond, AO, Jeremy Lamb and Roscoe Smith.

I didn't mean "same players" exactly, but same level of talent. Napier and Daniels were much improved, as was Boatright. The 11-12 team may have been a little better, but Drummond never really fit.

 

[CTBasketball]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

2012/2013. We had a lot of bounces go our way. Our offense was working the shot clock and having Shabazz jack an isolation jumper or having Boat throw his body at the rim. Having a once-in-a-lifetime college player like Shabazz certainly improves your chances. Boat was fairly inconsistent all year, but dependable to get into the paint. We couldn't rebound for and pretty much grinded out half of our close games. Hence the 20-10 and mid-pack Big East finish. That season was a grind. It wasn't a "happy-lucky" 20 win season. We fought for every game, caught a lot of teams on their toes.

Our offense is still dependent on hitting 3's and a lot of pick and roll isolation situations. You see the downside now of not having Shabazz and a slasher that can finish at the rim. I would argue our rebounding is better now than 2012/2013 by far.

KO has fiddled around with certain set plays this year but nothing has stuck. Having two All-American worthy guards makes wonders for your offense and can mask a lot of coaching inabilities - I don't think KO has worked his way around this.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

@AntG168 you're original quote

Què¿? Remembering history is important here. DeAndre Daniels and Niels Giffey were not viewed as they are viewed now at the start of the 2012 season. Going into that season we expected to have an talented but irratic shabazz who wasn't a leader, and a young athletic yet inconsistent boat. Ollie coached those kids up. That's where your failing to give him credit. Going into the season that team wasn't supposed to be that good in that big East. Ollie had those guys beating top 25 teams knowing they had no hope of the tourney. You undersellimg how big of an accomplishment that was. Calhoun had a loaded squad with tourney aspirations and did slightly better by the numbers, but his team underacheived while Ollie's overachieved

They were 20-12 (10-8) and if not banned for the post season, they would have been an NIT team. It's a very good coaching job for a first year coach in a tough situation.

Yes masterpiece. Calhoun did worse the year before with better talent. And v 20 wins in that big East was a great achievement. Who had them winning 20 games?

Also, this is your original quote, which was proven wrong by Ken Pom and RPI. It wasn't who over/under achieved.

I'm sorry, a tournament team lost a handful of players - like nearly every tournament does - and then went on to win 20 games. Winning an NCAA title is a masterpiece, the first season was a very good job, but the last three have stunk.

I just would like to know why after damn near two decades of ranked squads, deep NCAA runs and 4 national titles, we're accepting close wins vs lousy AAC teams and giving the tired excuse against a team with an actual pulse in Houston.

This is not UConn Basketball and Ollie needs to figure it out and quickly. He's ours for what I deem to be better, than worse, but the last three seasons there has been a lot of talent and extremely underwhelming results. Not for nothing but even the 2014 title team had a pretty poor regular season as well.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

Exactly this. Some seasons you'll win your share of close games, some reasons you'll lose them. It's basketball.

The most startling development is that consistent themes of bad offense, reliant on 3s or a star player in isolation (Napier, Boat, Hamilton, Adams), falling behind early, boxing out, no discipline and not handling adversity.

You mean to tell me that after 3 seasons, Rodney is STILL catching the ball with his foot out of bounds or the fact Brimah still has no idea when he should stay with his man and guard/get a or board or when he should sell out of the block isn't a coaching issue? Stuff like that drives me insane.

 

[KingAG]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

2012/2013. We had a lot of bounces go our way. Our offense was working the shot clock and having Shabazz jack an isolation jumper or having Boat throw his body at the rim. Having a once-in-a-lifetime college player like Shabazz certainly improves your chances. Boat was fairly inconsistent all year, but dependable to get into the paint. We couldn't rebound for Spartacus and pretty much grinded out half of our close games. Hence the 20-10 and mid-pack Big East finish. That season was a grind. It wasn't a "happy-lucky" 20 win season. We fought for every game, caught a lot of teams on their toes.

Our offense is still dependent on hitting 3's and a lot of pick and roll isolation situations. You see the downside now of not having Shabazz and a slasher that can finish at the rim. I would argue our rebounding is better now than 2012/2013 by far.

KO has fiddled around with certain set plays this year but nothing has stuck. Having two All-American worthy guards makes wonders for your offense and can mask a lot of coaching inabilities - I don't think KO has worked his way around this.

"You guys look at W's and Los too much".......That maybe the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Isn't that what matters? That team had a push and pride about them that can be directly attributed to KO. The development of bazz, Boat, Giffey, and Daniels that season can be directly attributed to KO. "Grinding out wins" takes good coaching, good coaches win close games. "Caught teams on their heels" whatever you want to call it we beat GOOD teams that no one had us beating. Just admit KO coached his ass of his first 2 seasons and hasn't been as good the last 3. But even his last 3 have been pretty good OVERALL

 

[KingAG]

I didn't mean "same players" exactly, but same level of talent. Napier and Daniels were much improved, as was Boatright. The 11-12 team may have been a little better, but Drummond never really fit.

They were much improved because of KO. And it wasn't the same level of talent. Maybe the players fit better together, but that 2011 team was one of our most talented teams at UCONN
They're were 3 pros on that team. Along with Boat, Daniels, Giffey, and roscoe. That team was #4 in the preseason. Let's not distort history

 

[Tenspro2002]

You guys look at W's and L's too much.

2012/2013. We had a lot of bounces go our way. Our offense was working the shot clock and having Shabazz jack an isolation jumper or having Boat throw his body at the rim. Having a once-in-a-lifetime college player like Shabazz certainly improves your chances. Boat was fairly inconsistent all year, but dependable to get into the paint. We couldn't rebound for Spartacus and pretty much grinded out half of our close games. Hence the 20-10 and mid-pack Big East finish. That season was a grind. It wasn't a "happy-lucky" 20 win season. We fought for every game, caught a lot of teams on their toes.

Our offense is still dependent on hitting 3's and a lot of pick and roll isolation situations. You see the downside now of not having Shabazz and a slasher that can finish at the rim. I would argue our rebounding is better now than 2012/2013 by far.

KO has fiddled around with certain set plays this year but nothing has stuck. Having two All-American worthy guards makes wonders for your offense and can mask a lot of coaching inabilities - I don't think KO has worked his way around this.

Even in the Tournament in 2014. We won on the basis of: 1) suffocating team defense, 2) impeccable free throw shooting, and 3) Shabazz Napier hero ball.

Seriously, watch the highlights. What fraction of our scoring was Shabazz making a contested 22-footer late in the shot clock? Probably 20%? He was unreal, and there's no way we get nearly as far without him hitting momentum-changing and back-breaking 3's that had zero to do with the flow of our offense.

Credit KO for #1 and #2, but 5 years in he still is a mediocre offensive coach, despite this being one of his supposed strengths coming from the NBA.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Just admit KO coached his ass of his first 2 seasons and hasn't been as good the last 3. But even his last 3 have been pretty good OVERALL

Is anyone here debating he didn't have a good first season and a great second season?

Where we disagree is the last seasons. They haven't been pretty good. Pretty good coaching isn't NIT, 9 seed and first weekend exit, no postseason. That's delusional.

 

[KingAG]

Is anyone here debating he didn't have a good first season and a great second season?

Where we disagree is the last seasons. They haven't been pretty good. Pretty good coaching isn't NIT, 8 seed, no postseason. That's delusional.

On its face it's not. In my opinion last year was "pretty good". Boat and Co. was hard to watch. This year is a lot more about injuries than KO having a bad coaching year

 

[CTBasketball]

"You guys look at W's and Los too much"..That maybe the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Isn't that what matters? That team had a push and pride about them that can be directly attributed to KO. The development of bazz, Boat, Giffey, and Daniels that season can be directly attributed to KO. "Grinding out wins" takes good coaching, good coaches win close games. "Caught teams on their heels" whatever you want to call it we beat GOOD teams that no one had us beating. Just admit KO coached his ass of his first 2 seasons and hasn't been as good the last 3. But even his last 3 have been pretty good OVERALL

Of course wins matter. Wins didn't matter in 2012/2013 = no pressure.

I would attribute "coaching his ass off" to mean "Shabazz played great." The coaching hasn't changed much. Tenspro's comment on Shabazz Hero Ball is 100% spot on. Same with the emergence of DeAndre Daniels. Everyone gives KO credit for Daniels 2014 March run. But he was a wildly mediocre player set for his senior season before that run. So what do we remember more? KO getting the best out of Daniels for 6 games? Or KO not tapping Daniels potential for the rest of his 2-3 seasons?

I'll take the larger sample size.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Is anyone here debating he didn't have a good first season and a great second season?

Where we disagree is the last seasons. They haven't been pretty good. Pretty good coaching isn't NIT, 9 seed and first weekend exit, no postseason. That's delusional.

I thought the first season was "average", they did about what any competent coach would have them do. Second season very good, but I think that team got very lucky, playing great D and winning games with Shabbaz being brilliant. Since then the coaching has been average to below average. Injuries aside, Ollie did a horrible job having this team ready to play going in to the season. Those first games are on him, and they barely scraped out a win over LMU or it would be even worse.

That said, I think his recruiting has been good. I think he's still learning the reality of the modern college game, and developing as a coach. I also think that his personal issues off the court significantly affected him last year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Of course wins matter. Wins didn't matter in 2012/2013 = no pressure.

I would attribute "coaching his ass off" to mean "Shabazz played great." The coaching hasn't changed much. Tenspro's comment on Shabazz Hero Ball is 100% spot on. Same with the emergence of DeAndre Daniels. Everyone gives KO credit for Daniels 2014 March run. But he was a wildly mediocre player set for his senior season before that run. So what do we remember more? KO getting the best out of Daniels for 6 games? Or KO not tapping Daniels potential for the rest of his 2-3 seasons?

I'll take the larger sample size.

And Facey is Daniels 2.0 He had this game all along and Ollie wouldn't let him show it. He did get stronger, and plays better D now, but he had the rebounding and offensive game since he got here.

 

[7774]

And Facey is Daniels 2.0 He had this game all along and Ollie wouldn't let him show it. He did get stronger, and plays better D now, but he had the rebounding and offensive game since he got here.

What on earth?

 

[CTBasketball]

And Facey is Daniels 2.0 He had this game all along and Ollie wouldn't let him show it. He did get stronger, and plays better D now, but he had the rebounding and offensive game since he got here.

Eh I disagree. Facey was pretty one dimensional his freshman year.

But can we get back on track and discuss how tired our Huskies are?

 

[KingAG]

Eh I disagree. Facey was pretty one dimensional his freshman year.

But can we get back on track and discuss how tired our Huskies are?

LOL I think they were mentally fatigued. But I call BS on them being physically fatigued, don't buy it

 

[CTBasketball]

LOL I think they were mentally fatigued. But I call BS on them being physically fatigued, don't buy it

I wouldn't call it physical fatigue at all either. I have a feeling that when things get tough and a team goes on a run late, we just cramp up and collapse. That's mental fatigue.

 

[Pudge]

You are leaving out two things about last night:

1.) Houston playing 6 are a pretty dammn good team. Good solid guards in Robinson and Gray. Davis, Dotson and Chickenman are effective talented wings. And Meyer was a surprise. He out hustled us all over.

2.) Gosh Bob Wenzel. I never liked him. But, he was precisely hitting on our deficiencies and was ahead of the curve on that game and the players. He actually did a good job.