Thamel : Big East Could Grow To 14 Team Fb And 18 Team Bb

[upstater]

Thank you Whaler, that was what I was getting at.

Err, yeah, but you were responding to a post that was discussing whether Boise had better football than WV.

 

[whaler11]

Err, yeah, but you were responding to a post that was discussing whether Boise had better football than WV.

And that is where my confusion lied. If you mean next week would Boise beat West Virginia, then yes.. of course they would be a huge favorite. Is the Big East better off with Boise over the next 20 years than WVU? I'm with you, I'd rather have WVU.

 

[upstater]

And that is where my confusion lied. If you mean next week would Boise beat West Virginia, then yes.. of course they would be a huge favorite. Is the Big East better off with Boise over the next 20 years than WVU? I'm with you, I'd rather have WVU.

Or 10 years or even 5. I'd take WV. But yes, that's what I was responding to. Those who see Boise as a football improvement over WV, not just for this year but the near future).

 

[Druken Friar]

Boise beat Georgia easily this year. They also won the Fiesta Bowl in 2009. They would finish in first place if they were in the Big East.

There is never any guarantee that a school will continue to be successful. However, they have a good head coach so I like their chances. Utah was great under Urban Meyer, things started to slide after he left. Again head coach is very important. WVU has seen their program slide since their coach left for Michigan. He failed there but had a great record with WVU.

 

[NutmegState]

Or 10 years or even 5. I'd take WV. But yes, that's what I was responding to. Those who see Boise as a football improvement over WV, not just for this year but the near future).

Okay, I see what you are saying. I think Boise is more important to the Big East than WVU right now, though. Boise in all likelihood allows the Big East to retain it's BCS bid.
WVU staying, and us adding afa,usna,ucf,smu,temple etc, would probably not...

 

[upstater]

Okay, I see what you are saying. I think Boise is more important to the Big East than WVU right now, though. Boise in all likelihood allows the Big East to retain it's BCS bid.
WVU staying, and us adding afa,usna,ucf,smu,temple etc, would probably not...

What people don't realize, and I hope the BE is taking into account, is that the whole BCS contract and requirements get re-written with every extension. Don't be surprised if things change. The big leagues are serious about grabbing extra BCS bids. Sure, they may give the BE an AQ, but don't expect the criteria to stay the same.

 

[nycscooby]

What people don't realize, and I hope the BE is taking into account, is that the whole BCS contract and requirements get re-written with every extension. Don't be surprised if things change. The big leagues are serious about grabbing extra BCS bids. Sure, they may give the BE an AQ, but don't expect the criteria to stay the same.

That's exactly right. I don't think it's guaranteed and maybe not even likely that the above hodge lodge conference gets an AQ status. Boise ain't going to carry it otherwise they would have joined the MWC and that league would have gotten one. Look at the list above and tell me which school is an old line football power such that it couldn't be left without a seat at the table? This is why WVU is much more important than Boise. Boise is like us, no tradition and that's what sells in college FB. If this new league doesnt get AQ status,id take my chances as Indy. I see no logical reason why any of our old conference mates and non traditional bcs football powers (like a UVA or wake or northwestern or vandy) and maybe the next tier up too wouldn't give us home and homes straight away. We could easily have a better home schedule than this season. Show me the AQ and a TV deal fo this new conference and we'll have to take it but I hope our admin is at least thinking Indy so it doesn't get caught napping again.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

That's exactly right. I don't think it's guaranteed and maybe not even likely that the above hodge lodge conference gets an AQ status. Boise ain't going to carry it otherwise they would have joined the MWC and that league would have gotten one. Look at the list above and tell me which school is an old line football power such that it couldn't be left without a seat at the table? This is why WVU is much more important than Boise. Boise is like us, no tradition and that's what sells in college FB. If this new league doesnt get AQ status,id take my chances as Indy. I see no logical reason why any of our old conference mates and non traditional bcs football powers (like a UVA or wake or northwestern or vandy) and maybe the next tier up too wouldn't give us home and homes straight away. We could easily have a better home schedule than this season. Show me the AQ and a TV deal fo this new conference and we'll have to take it but I hope our admin is at least thinking Indy so it doesn't get caught napping again.

Again, in your scenario, the independents in the FBS would be Notre Dame, BYU, Army, Navy and UConn.

Which of these isn't like the others? I just don't understand how you can be so blind.

 

[nycscooby]

Again, in your scenario, the independents in the FBS would be Notre Dame, BYU, Army, Navy and UConn.

Which of these isn't like the others? I just don't understand how you can be so blind.

You'd rather be in that proposed confernce

 

[nycscooby]

Without a bcs seat? Who's blind? without the AQ I'd rather play a schedule with home games aginst Syracuse, WVU, Pitt, UMass, Northwestern, Vandy and road games at ND, Penn State, Ga Tech, Tennessee, Maryland and Michigan. Wouldn't you?

 

[businesslawyer]

Without a bcs seat? Who's blind? without the AQ I'd rather play a schedule with home games aginst Syracuse, WVU, Pitt, UMass, Northwestern, Vandy and road games at ND, Penn State, Ga Tech, Tennessee, Maryland and Michigan. Wouldn't you?

Yes. But if you think that is what our schedule would look like I don't know what to say. You think the former Big East schools aren't going to want schedule wins and home games from their OOC? You think Mihigan and Tenn would continue to play us home and home when we're not an AQ school?

 

[nycscooby]

Okay, I see what you are saying. I think Boise is more important to the Big East than WVU right now, though. Boise in all likelihood allows the Big East to retain it's BCS bid.
WVU staying, and us adding afa,usna,ucf,smu,temple etc, would probably not...

I don't necessarily agree that Boise would do that it couldn't do it for the MWC. Colleg football is not about recent on field success. It's about tradition. That's why 100K would go to watch a sec winless Tennessee team even if it didn't win a conference game for the next three seasons. There nothing we can do to battle the lack of tradition just keep plugging away.

 

[nycscooby]

Yes. But if you think that is what our schedule would look like I don't know what to say. You think the former Big East schools aren't going to want schedule wins and home games from their OOC? You think Mihigan and Tenn would continue to play us home and home when we're not an AQ school?

Yes I do. I think UConn is n attractive OOC opponent. It's not like we don't have assets to leverage.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

You'd rather be in that proposed confernce

No, of course not. I'm not dying to play Houston, SMU, UCF, etc. in football every year. Nobody here is.

Going independent:

1) No TV Contract
2) No AQ BCS bid
3) No Bowl Tie-Ins
4) Scheduling Nightmare
5) At most, 4-5 home games a year vs mainly non-AQs. We have 7 home games this year, 4 BE and 1 AQ. Last year we had 3 BE, and 1 AQ. What makes you think, that on a non-BCS platform, teams from the ACC, Big12, etc. are going to be lining up to play us?
With no TV contract, the game will have no exposure, and their is no recruiting incentive for teams to schedule games in CT either.

To add to this, the only other team in America that is even considering independence (could be just rumors) is University of Texas which is #1 in revenue generated in the entire NCAA.

 

[nycscooby]

All I'm saying is that I hope our admin is considering all options. The AQ status would be safe until the contract expires even with this new merged conference but I don't really see that definitely continuing. Obviously if it does with a decent TV package we'll have to stay in but I disagree with many as to the quality of our schedule as an Indy.

 

[nycscooby]

No, of course not. I'm not dying to play Houston, SMU, UCF, etc. in football every year. Nobody here is.

Going independent:

1) No TV Contract
2) No AQ BCS bid
3) No Bowl Tie-Ins
4) Scheduling Nightmare
5) At most, 4-5 home games a year vs mainly non-AQs. We have 7 home games this year, 4 BE and 1 AQ. Last year we had 3 BE, and 1 AQ. What makes you think, that on a non-BCS platform, teams from the ACC, Big12, etc. are going to be lining up to play us?
With no TV contract, the game will have no exposure, and their is no recruiting
incentive for teams to schedule games in CT either.


Bask, you're not reading my posts closely. I'm assuming no 1 to 3 for the new conference beyond the current contract and I disagree with you as to 4 and 5. Enough said.

To add to this, the only other team in America that is even considering independence (could be just rumors) is University of Texas which is #1 in revenue generated in the entire NCAA.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Scooby,

Please explain how #4 of CHB's list is wrong (and by extension #5).

No BCS school of any substance will consider visiting us and the lower level BCS schools would want a 2-1 or 3-1 arrangement. We won't get anything better than a 1-1 with MAC or CUSA schools and we may need to reciprocate in men's hoops to land many of these. Also, we may not generate sufficient revenue from ticket sales to cover the cost of home games with FCS schools (there will be zero television revenue for these games).

At worst (at extreme worst) the new BE will be slightly above CUSA for items 1 - 3. Is this great? No but there is no way it won't be better than what we would have as an indy.

We may be able to work a deal with ND similar to what Army did (where if we visit South bend a couple of times they'll play us at Yankee Stadium, ND controlling all gates and giving us a visitors payout for our appearance). We will be somewhere between Navy and Army in terms of performance but as we have far less of a history and national following than either service academy, we will have less of an opportunity to schedule than either of those schools.

If we want a highly competitive schedule (to demonstrate that we do belong in a major conference) we will spend eight weeks on the road. If we want six or seven home games a season, we will be scheduling only cupcakes.

 

[SAMCRO]

This is too easy.

2006: Sugar Bowl: (11) West Virginia 38, (7) Georgia 35
2008: Fiesta Bowl: (9) West Virginia 48, (4) Oklahoma 28

What does that have to do w/ Boise? For years you've knocked them, and for years they keep passing every test put in front if them. Their conference schedule sucks, we know this, but they've taken on top programs every year, and have had success. You can continue to be unimpressed, but you're coming at it from a place of emotion, not objectivity. I'm not saying they'd be 12-0 in the SEC, B10, etc... Every year, but I am saying they are better than anyone the BE has had for years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Scooby,

Please explain how #4 of CHB's list is wrong (and by extension #5).

No BCS school of any substance will consider visiting us and the lower level BCS schools would want a 2-1 or 3-1 arrangement. We won't get anything better than a 1-1 with MAC or CUSA schools and we may need to reciprocate in men's hoops to land many of these. Also, we may not generate sufficient revenue from ticket sales to cover the cost of home games with FCS schools (there will be zero television revenue for these games).

At worst (at extreme worst) the new BE will be slightly above CUSA for items 1 - 3. Is this great? No but there is no way it won't be better than what we would have as an indy.

We may be able to work a deal with ND similar to what Army did (where if we visit South bend a couple of times they'll play us at Yankee Stadium, ND controlling all gates and giving us a visitors payout for our appearance). We will be somewhere between Navy and Army in terms of performance but as we have far less of a history and national following than either service academy, we will have less of an opportunity to schedule than either of those schools.

If we want a highly competitive schedule (to demonstrate that we do belong in a major conference) we will spend eight weeks on the road. If we want six or seven home games a season, we will be scheduling only cupcakes.

Stop thinking just about football. I don't think the current BE BB schools will ever participate is some giant conference with far flung schools. I just don't see it happening. So start thinking about this as your all sports conference, minus the BB only schools. Now how does it look? I am not willing to give up a strong BB league for AQ status.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Stop thinking just about football. I don't think the current BE BB schools will ever participate is some giant conference with far flung schools. I just don't see it happening. So start thinking about this as your all sports conference, minus the BB only schools. Now how does it look? I am not willing to give up a strong BB league for AQ status.

You need to stop believing that football does not matter. It would also help if you actually answered the questions posed.

We will have a quality men's basketball program in a conference that still has the football members of the BE plus whatever additions (assuming we will still attempt to have a quality men's basketball program) are required to make it a full conference. We will not have anything resembling an acceptable footbal program if we are an indy. I am not willing to give up on our football program just to remain aligned with the catholic members of the BE.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You need to stop believing that football does not matter. It would also help if you actually answered the questions posed.

We will have a quality men's basketball program in a conference that still has the football members of the BE plus whatever additions (assuming we will still attempt to have a quality men's basketball program) are required to make it a full conference. We will not have anything resembling an acceptable footbal program if we are an indy. I am not willing to give up on our football program just to remain aligned with the catholic members of the BE.

It matters. It is driving realingment. But if you polled UConn fans and alumni and asked: top 2 basketball conference and no AQ status or AQ status and maybe top 6-8 level conference in basketball, which do you prefer? I suspect that the response would be overwhelmingly in favor of the strong hoops conference. I would love both, but only the ACC or B1G offer that right now. So forgive me if I cannot must any excitement for what will be a pretty lousy basketball conference.

 

[upstater]

What does that have to do w/ Boise? For years you've knocked them, and for years they keep passing every test put in front if them. Their conference schedule sucks, we know this, but they've taken on top programs every year, and have had success. You can continue to be unimpressed, but you're coming at it from a place of emotion, not objectivity. I'm not saying they'd be 12-0 in the SEC, B10, etc... Every year, but I am saying they are better than anyone the BE has had for years.

Bizarre post. I haven't knocked Boise for years. I've actually given them very little thought. They are the Kansas st., Utah, Colorado, TCU, flavor of the moment. They come up, then fade into oblivion. It's like clockwork. I think a school like WV has a lot more staying power, they've been competitive over decades, and have accomplished a lot.

What does that have to do with Boise?

What the heck is wrong with people on this thread? Can't you guys read? Someone responds to my comment that BE football will not improve with the loss of WV, another poster shows me the result of the Boise-Oklahoma BCS bowl, I show its relevance by responding with WV's BCS bowls. And then you come to me and ask how it's relevant? Please.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

It matters. It is driving realingment. But if you polled UConn fans and alumni and asked: top 2 basketball conference and no AQ status or AQ status and maybe top 6-8 level conference in basketball, which do you prefer? I suspect that the response would be overwhelmingly in favor of the strong hoops conference. I would love both, but only the ACC or B1G offer that right now. So forgive me if I cannot must any excitement for what will be a pretty lousy basketball conference.

Well, then thank god fans aren't making the decisions.

Basketball is driving realignment? Right. That's why UConn is still in the Big East and why Kansas was going to left out when Texas, Oklahoma and their little brothers were going to the Pac12. What about Louisville? Still stuck in the BE with us.

Colorado, Texas A&M, Nebraska? Powerhouse hoop schools. Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia were raided from the BE because they were the only 3 BE with any historical football cache. The fact they have been good hoops schools is just ancillary benefit.

The fact that you still fail to miss is that a basketball program can be successful nearly anywhere.

A top flight football program can only have sustained success in the BCS. The only team that has been a top flight program from a nothing conference has been Boise State.

Basketball? There are a lot of mid major programs out there that find themselves in the NCAAs every year and are successful in the NCAAs.

If a top flight basketball conference is the price of AQ - it has to be paid.

The fact you want to throw more support to a 3 Time National Champion, then a 10 year old FBS football that needs every ounce of help it can get is bewildering.

 

[SAMCRO]

Bizarre post. I haven't knocked Boise for years. I've actually given them very little thought. They are the Kansas st., Utah, Colorado, TCU, flavor of the moment. They come up, then fade into oblivion. It's like clockwork. I think a school like WV has a lot more staying power, they've been competitive over decades, and have accomplished a lot.

What does that have to do with Boise?

What the heck is wrong with people on this thread? Can't you guys read? Someone responds to my comment that BE football will not improve with the loss of WV, another poster shows me the result of the Boise-Oklahoma BCS bowl, I show its relevance by responding with WV's BCS bowls. And then you come to me and ask how it's relevant? Please.

Please is right. You say you have not knocked Boise for years. I call BS You knock Boise any time someone posts that in their opinion Boise is a viable BCS caliber team. You've done it this year, and you've done it on on TOS last year, year before that, etc... There was a whole thread on TOS with you bashing Boise when posters said they were better than PSU. In this thread you've posted that people shouldn't be too impressed by Boise. Someone posts they are impressed, and references BSU's BCS bowl win over OU. Your response was "this is too easy" and reference WVU's BCS bowl wins. Which has nothing to do w/ Boise. Going back to TOS anytime someone brought up Boise as. BCS caliber team you regularly posted that they weren't.

You're not impressed by Boise. Got it. Boise is the flavor of the month. Got it. Although that's one long friggin month. Boise is the next Kansas St. Got it.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

If the premise that this is still the best men's basketball conference were accurate there may (just may) be some validity in their belief. The thing is, we will be fortunate if we can remain a top three men's basketbsall conference once the membership losses take place.

Additionally, if there were a split and (as some have mentioned) schools like Temple and Memphis are added to the all sports conference (I am not necessarily advocating this, just mentioning it as it is relevant) the likelyhood exists that the conference with UConn, Louisville, Memphis, Temple and Cincinnati (not to mention Houston who you would need to apply the same theory that a relic from the 1980's can regain its national prominence that is applied to many of the catholic schools) would be a better men's hoops conference than the one with Georgetown, Nova, ND, etc.

There is valid reason to believe that the men's basketball program can survive without the catholics. There is little reason to believe that the football program can survive if we prioritize remaining with the catholics for men's basketball.

 

[Section205]

There is valid reason to believe that the men's basketball program can survive without the catholics. There is little reason to believe that the football program can survive if we prioritize remaining with the catholics for men's basketball.

Spot on.

 

[upstater]

Please is right. You say you have not knocked Boise for years. I call BS You knock Boise any time someone posts that in their opinion Boise is a viable BCS caliber team. You've done it this year, and you've done it on on TOS last year, year before that, etc... There was a whole thread on TOS with you bashing Boise when posters said they were better than PSU. In this thread you've posted that people shouldn't be too impressed by Boise. Someone posts they are impressed, and references BSU's BCS bowl win over OU. Your response was "this is too easy" and reference WVU's BCS bowl wins. Which has nothing to do w/ Boise. Going back to TOS anytime someone brought up Boise as. BCS caliber team you regularly posted that they weren't.

You're not impressed by Boise. Got it. Boise is the flavor of the month. Got it. Although that's one long friggin month. Boise is the next Kansas St. Got it.

You made a lot of S*** up in that post. PSU over Boise wha? PSU hasn't competed in like 5 or 6 years. What are you talking about? Go on with your laughable fantasies.

And you have reading comprehension difficulties as well. Someone says that Boise will more than replace WV. I respond to them. It's not my fault if you have poor logic skills.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well, then thank god fans aren't making the decisions.

Basketball is driving realignment? Right. That's why UConn is still in the Big East and why Kansas was going to left out when Texas, Oklahoma and their little brothers were going to the Pac12. What about Louisville? Still stuck in the BE with us....

The fact that you still fail to miss is that a basketball program can be successful nearly anywhere.

A top flight football program can only have sustained success in the BCS. The only team that has been a top flight program from a nothing conference has been Boise State.

Basketball? There are a lot of mid major programs out there that find themselves in the NCAAs every year and are successful in the NCAAs.

If a top flight basketball conference is the price of AQ - it has to be paid.

The fact you want to throw more support to a 3 Time National Champion, then a 10 year old FBS football that needs every ounce of help it can get is bewildering.

If you read what I replied to I said that FB matters and is driving realignment. I disagree entirely that a top hoops team can be successful anywhere. Regardless, I want compelling league basketball games to watch. Other than Louisville, none of the potential basketball games are even interesting. We'd be like Memphis in CUSA, winning every game we play against pathetic competition. Yes, we'd get to the tournament, but interest would drop dramatically. I disagree on paying the price of the one program, two really, that put the school on the map. I don't expect that UConn can or will become a football power in my lifetime. All I can even hope for is a solid team that can get to some bowl games and be competitive.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

If no longer carrying Seton Hall, DePaul or PC is paying a price, how quickly can we pay?

 

[Druken Friar]

The Big East will announce its expansion next week after Tuesday's meeting. 7-9 schools, Boise State, Houston, SMU, UCF, Air Force, Navy, Army or Temple as the seventh school, BYU and Mempis are long shots. Time to start planning for life in the new BE.