Texas loses to Hawaii

[Plebe]

When Texas hired Coach Goestenkors at $1 million a season, everyone thought we'd hit a homerun. But, she didn't produce the expected results; reasons differ as to what went wrong, but doesn't really matter as she resigned after 4 seasons.

Then, our AD took a 180 degree approach and hired a very inexperienced coach on the cheap -- like $450,000 a year. Some feel that there was pressure on the AD to "recoup" some of that money spent on Coach G by hiring a less expensive replacement. As long as I've followed Texas sports, rarely does a head coach get hired at less than their predecessor (unless it was the replacement for our legendary baseball coach, Augie Garrido).

I wasn't a fan of the hire; she was just too inexperienced in my book. But, she loved Texas when she as an assistant coach under Conradt. and she lobbied hard for the job. She had proven she was a great recruiter while at Texas, and had built relationships with some of the Texas administration.

Based on her inexperience as a head coach, I was shocked that she recruited elite players very early on, even though most were high school underclassmen who wouldn't arrive for a couple of years or more. In year two, she narrowly missed beating Maryland on the road in the second round of the tourney. In year three, she upset #16 Cal on the road in the second round to advance to the Sweet 16. That was followed by and Elite 8, and another Sweet 16. So, she definitely made me eat my words with the success she had; she made Texas relevant again. I had no reason to not wish for her to have continued success.

But, something went wrong. Wish I knew what it was. I never agreed with her staff hirings as it seemed she kept hiring coaches with little to no college coaching experience.

It is what it is. No matter our head coach (in any sport), I want them to be successful. As a fan, I can only hope our new AD makes the right decision, and a good replacement hire when the time comes.

The rapid rise and fall of Aston at Texas has been a baffling case study. You've done an excellent job of documenting the ascent. The early returns were virtually impossible to argue with.

The Aston era basically topped out with the Elite 8 finish in 2016 and the road win at Baylor in 2017. But then the 2017 season closed with a whimper: a Big 12 tournament quarterfinal loss to a suddenly red-hot West Virginia team, a narrow escape over NC State in the 2nd round, and then a meek exit vs. Stanford in the Sweet 16.

But the first time I said "Aston we have a problem" was the horrendous game at Tennessee in Dec. 2017 where she accomplished the near-impossible task of looking even more incompetent than Holly Warlick. That was in the senior year of Atkins and McCarty, and although Texas somewhat recovered to give UConn a very close game in Jan. 2018 and reach another Sweet 16, it was also when we started to notice major problems with what I'll call "player management":

• Joyner Holmes' suspension from school in fall 2017 and subsequent inefficacy
• The departures of Jordan Hosey and Rellah Boothe after the 2018 season
• The departure of Chasity Patterson in Dec. 2018
• The departures of Destiny Littleton and Sedona Prince after the 2019 season

At this point there's little ambiguity to deal with. It's not like Holly's last year at Tennessee, where the recruiting never declined and player departures were relatively few. Higgs, Sutton and Holmes are in their final season, and there's no strong recruiting class to take their place (one recruit and one transfer ranked in the 50s by ESPN, a couple other lowly ranked or unranked).

The fact that the AD hasn't yet renewed her contract already speaks volumes. Perhaps he wanted to see how this season went, or perhaps he'd already made up his mind. But barring a miraculous turnaround, the writing couldn't be more on the wall. The question on Texas fans' minds at this point is not whether she'll be gone but who will replace her.

 

[garddog]

It has to be something at the administrative level at Texas. It is not just WBB. Look how they have taken really good football coaches and they go to Texas and just stink it up. Austin is a lot easier place to get in trouble if you dont have the will to resist the party scene.

 

[southie]

. That was in the senior year of Atkins and McCarty, and although Texas somewhat recovered to give UConn a very close game in Jan. 2018 and reach another Sweet 16, it was also when we started to notice major problems with what I'll call "player management":

• Joyner Holmes' suspension from school in fall 2017 and subsequent inefficacy
• The departures of Jordan Hosey and Rellah Boothe after the 2018 season
• The departure of Chasity Patterson in Dec. 2018
• The departures of Destiny Littleton and Sedona Prince after the 2019 season

Players leave for different reasons. Jordan Hosey has dyslexia (according to an article) and academics were the reason she departed Texas after 3 seasons; she loved Texas and anyone who saw her on the bench supporting her teammates could see that. Boothe arrived out of shape and had a very bad attitude across the board; too bad because she was very talented on the court. Patterson wanted more playing time, felt she should be starting, and basically wanted to play in a streetball offense; she ended up at Kentucky (a school she never considered during the recruiting process). Littleton also arrived out of shape, and injuries took their toll most of the time she spent at Texas; she was one of my favorites, but we'll find out more about her commitment to basketball and fitness as she finishes her career at South Carolina.

As for Sedona Prince, not enough time to address all the rumors. We'll see if Oregon is the right place for her.

 

[Plebe]

As for Sedona Prince, not enough time to address all the rumors. We'll see if Oregon is the right place for her.

Do you mean rumors that it wasn't just about her medical situation?

 

[triaddukefan]

As it turns out, Aston is in the last year of her contract (which was extended by 3 years in September 2016). It kind of snuck up on most of us that it has not been renewed. So, if you combine last season's regression and this season's start, chances are high that Texas will be searching for a new head coach.

Well yall took one WCBB coach outta Durham.... how about another one? I'll help pack

 

[southie]

Do you mean rumors that it wasn't just about her medical situation?

Yes. But, since they are nothing but rumors, better to just keep quiet as what's done is done.

 

[southie]

Should Texas be searching for a new head coach after this season, I think many Texas fans who overvalue the history of our women's hoops program are in for a shock as to candidates who would truly be interested in the job, and who would actually accept it.

Yes, Texas won a national title in 1986, and had enormous fan attendance in the 80's and 90's. Texas was one of the few athletic programs back then who had made a commitment to women's athletics. But, despite all the advantages we had, just one Final Four in 1987 and 2003 after that. Coach Conradt was regarded as a "pioneer" in women's basketball, but she didn't really produce at an elite level the last 20 years of her time at Texas; there was no reason why she couldn't have had half the success Pat Summitt did. Obviously, they weren't cut from the same cloth.

So, when we pursued Gail from Duke with all her success, some questioned why she would even be interested in Texas. She told her players that she had to listen, as "It's Texas". That to me was her perception of Texas as she observed the growth of college women's basketball over the decades. And, of course, there were issues with her AD at Duke and the money being offered that were the ultimate factors in her accepting the Texas job.

For the majority of coaches Texas might pursue from Top 10 programs, I believe all are compensated extremely well, have great fan attendance (some due to their hard work and success), and are competing for a national title and will be for the immediate future. Some Texas fans are throwing out names like Jeff Waltz and Vic Schaeffer; they just don't realize those coaches are earning twice as much as Aston, and they have zero reasons to be interested in the Texas job (other than to get their AD's to increase their salaries to keep them).

So, that leaves coaches from the PAC who really are not paid very well (in most women's sports); forget if Graves is being compensated like Waltz and Schaeffer. Texas was able to lure Oregon's very successful softball head coach 18 months ago because their AD wouldn't pay him what Texas was offering him. Not sure that would be the case if Texas made overtures to Graves.

UCLA is notorious for not paying their women's head coaches well at all. So, Cori Close would be the most attainable coach out there, IMO. But, UCLA is her alma mater, and doubling her salary might not be enough motivation for her to leave the West coach. She is a great recruiter, including getting kids from Texas and Australia. While she hasn't gotten to the Final Four yet, I think she's really "close" ;-)

The other dynamic at Texas is that up until just 2 years ago, the men's and women's athletic departments were separate and headed by two different ADs (one male and one female). The female AD, Chris Plonsky, seems to have had an aversion to hiring male head coaches for the women's athletic programs. She recently did hire male coaches to lead our rowing, tennis, and golf programs; low and behold, all are doing great.

With a combined athletic program now being led by one male AD, the hiring of a male head coach for the softball program and the Track & Field program under his leadership now has Texas with only 3 female head coaches (Swimming, Basketball and soccer, the latter two which are not doing well). I don't know how this number compares to other programs across the country, but hiring the most qualified candidate should be the objective regardless of gender; still, there are many who are upset that women head coaches across the board are decreasing in numbers in favor of male head coaches.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Should Texas be searching for a new head coach after this season, I think many Texas fans who overvalue the history of our women's hoops program are in for a shock as to candidates who would truly be interested in the job, and who would actually accept it.

Yes, Texas won a national title in 1986, and had enormous fan attendance in the 80's and 90's. Texas was one of the few athletic programs back then who had made a commitment to women's athletics. But, despite all the advantages we had, just one Final Four in 1987 and 2003 after that. Coach Conradt was regarded as a "pioneer" in women's basketball, but she didn't really produce at an elite level the last 20 years of her time at Texas; there was no reason why she couldn't have had half the success Pat Summitt did. Obviously, they weren't cut from the same cloth.

So, when we pursued Gail from Duke with all her success, some questioned why she would even be interested in Texas. She told her players that she had to listen, as "It's Texas". That to me was her perception of Texas as she observed the growth of college women's basketball over the decades. And, of course, there were issues with her AD at Duke and the money being offered that were the ultimate factors in her accepting the Texas job.

For the majority of coaches Texas might pursue from Top 10 programs, I believe all are compensated extremely well, have great fan attendance (some due to their hard work and success), and are competing for a national title and will be for the immediate future. Some Texas fans are throwing out names like Jeff Waltz and Vic Schaeffer; they just don't realize those coaches are earning twice as much as Aston, and they have zero reasons to be interested in the Texas job (other than to get their AD's to increase their salaries to keep them).

So, that leaves coaches from the PAC who really are not paid very well (in most women's sports); forget if Graves is being compensated like Waltz and Schaeffer. Texas was able to lure Oregon's very successful softball head coach 18 months ago because their AD wouldn't pay him what Texas was offering him. Not sure that would be the case if Texas made overtures to Graves.

UCLA is notorious for not paying their women's head coaches well at all. So, Cori Close would be the most attainable coach out there, IMO. But, UCLA is her alma mater, and doubling her salary might not be enough motivation for her to leave the West coach. She is a great recruiter, including getting kids from Texas and Australia. While she hasn't gotten to the Final Four yet, I think she's really "close" ;-)

The other dynamic at Texas is that up until just 2 years ago, the men's and women's athletic departments were separate and headed by two different ADs (one male and one female). The female AD, Chris Plonsky, seems to have had an aversion to hiring male head coaches for the women's athletic programs. She recently did hire male coaches to lead our rowing, tennis, and golf programs; low and behold, all are doing great.

With a combined athletic program now being led by one male AD, the hiring of a male head coach for the softball program and the Track & Field program under his leadership now has Texas with only 3 female head coaches (Swimming, Basketball and soccer, the latter two which are not doing well). I don't know how this number compares to other programs across the country, but hiring the most qualified candidate should be the objective regardless of gender; still, there are many who are upset that women head coaches across the board are decreasing in numbers in favor of male head coaches.

Well they made the right hire in Softball. Stealing Coach White from Oregon. Texas has so much going for it based on location, school spirit, facilities, money, etc. I hope they can nab a good P5 coach.

Heck the Washington State Coach a former UT guard is a better option than Ashton right now.

 

[DefenseBB]

Well a few correction s for you @southie, Gail was there for 5 years and was abysmal so while some try to couch it on burning recruiting in Texas, it’s was a lot more than that. She was terrible in conference play and her teams never developed over the course of the year. As evidenced by her diminishing coaching jobs, she just lost the ability to coach up players and teams. No P5 school should take a chance with her.
Aston’s pedigree as an assistant at Texas and Baylor, the success she had at Charlotte, her recruiting connections all proved she deserved a shot. Which she has so clearly surpassed anything that Gail ever did. Gail’s highest finish was 4th in conference with two 6th place and two 7th place finishes! . Even Jody struggled her last years from 1997-2007, she had 3 years of a phenomenal run of two 1sts and a 2nd sandwiched by 6 years of 4th or lower and 2 years of 7th/8th. Yikes. Karen has finished 7th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd every year since. Even with this deplorable start, Texas should still finish 2nd this year. Of course the Big12 is not strong but still.

My point is Karen has made Texas relevant again after mostly 20 plus years of irrelevance. That isn’t something to ignore.
All that said,the wheels have come off and it might be time to see if you could get an actual “coach” and recruiter, just not sure who that could be as you noted. I wouldn’t go back to the “Texas family tree” as no one has distinguished themselves. It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Figurehead]

Well they made the right hire in Softball. Stealing Coach White from Oregon. Texas has so much going for it based on location, school spirit, facilities, money, etc. I hope they can nab a good P5 coach.

Heck the Washington State Coach a former UT guard is a better option than Ashton right now.

Lol! White's teams had a history of choking in the WCWS. What outsiders did not know it was all about feeding Whites arrogance first,chasing his own money and the actual program after that.

Btw, If your looking for a good price to pay for a basketball coach see Rueck at Oregon State. Coach Fortier at Gonzaga's program is another good choice.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Btw, If your looking for a good price to pay for a basketball coach see Rueck at Oregon State. Coach Fortier at Gonzaga's program is another good choice.

No don't take a look at Rueck, he's perfectly happy in Corvallis. Some GU fans are still pretty salty about Graves going to Oregon, if another P5 school scooped up Fortier they would probably go apocalyptic.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Lol! White's teams had a history of choking in the WCWS. What outsiders did not know it was all about feeding Whites arrogance first,chasing his own money and the actual program after that.

Btw, If your looking for a good price to pay for a basketball coach see Rueck at Oregon State. Coach Fortier at Gonzaga's program is another good choice.

Getting to WCWS and winning is the PAC 12 in Softball is a huge feat. I don't think he choked in those world series as some really good teams have played there. He took a crappy Oregon program and put them ahead of two of the winningest softball programs in the nation. I could be wrong but I think UCLA has more national championships than UConn in softball than UConn. I hate to say this, but I disagree with your analysis. Just what he did last year with what Connie had left was actually really surprising. I have a feeling Oklahoma won't be the only powerhouse in softball for the B12 after a few more seasons.

Unlike Basketball most no.1 seeds struggle to win it all in Softball.

 

[biobioprof]

Well a few correction s for you @southie, Gail was there for 5 years and was abysmal so while some try to couch it on burning recruiting in Texas, it’s was a lot more than that. She was terrible in conference play and her teams never developed over the course of the year. As evidenced by her diminishing coaching jobs, she just lost the ability to coach up players and teams. No P5 school should take a chance with her.
Aston’s pedigree as an assistant at Texas and Baylor, the success she had at Charlotte, her recruiting connections all proved she deserved a shot. Which she has so clearly surpassed anything that Gail ever did. Gail’s highest finish was 4th in conference with two 6th place and two 7th place finishes! . Even Jody struggled her last years from 1997-2007, she had 3 years of a phenomenal run of two 1sts and a 2nd sandwiched by 6 years of 4th or lower and 2 years of 7th/8th. Yikes. Karen has finished 7th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd every year since. Even with this deplorable start, Texas should still finish 2nd this year. Of course the Big12 is not strong but still.

My point is Karen has made Texas relevant again after mostly 20 plus years of irrelevance. That isn’t something to ignore.
All that said,the wheels have come off and it might be time to see if you could get an actual “coach” and recruiter, just not sure who that could be as you noted. I wouldn’t go back to the “Texas family tree” as no one has distinguished themselves. It will be interesting to watch.

I think most agree that Gail underachieved. But it should also be pointed out that the B12 as a conference was probably stronger for most of her tenure at UT than what Aston has had to face. The B12 gained W. Virginia and TCU but lost A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou. Of course, it's unknowable what would have happened without conference realignment... can't just assume that teams would be interchangeable in alternative histories. For example, would Mizzou have had their run of strong teams if they were still in the B12?

 

[DallasBUFan]

How much attention will Texas give Ashton's downfall, while Herman (Football Coach) seems to be on his own downward spiral? We know Men's athletics still takes priority, just it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I could be wrong but I think UCLA has more national championships than UConn in softball than UConn.

I had to look that up. 13, but one was vacated so officially 12 NCAA Championships. Plus 1 AIAW Championship prior to softball being a participating sport with the NCAA.

 

[Plebe]

How much attention will Texas give Ashton's downfall, while Herman (Football Coach) seems to be on his own downward spiral? We know Men's athletics still takes priority, just it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Attention? Aston's contract is up this year, so they have to make a decision one way or another. IMO there's almost no way they decide to extend her under current circumstances.

Herman is under contract through 2023. They're not going to cut him off after this one bad season.

Shaka Smart, meanwhile, is probably on his last legs.

 

[biobioprof]

Attention? Aston's contract is up this year, so they have to make a decision one way or another. IMO there's almost no way they decide to extend her under current circumstances.

Herman is under contract through 2023. They're not going to cut him off after this one bad season.

Shaka Smart, meanwhile, is probably on his last legs.

Shaka should get to 8-1 after Texas plays A&M on Sunday. Year 1 of the Buzz Williams era is starting off very rough.

 

[Plebe]

Shaka should get to 8-1 after Texas plays A&M on Sunday. Year 1 of the Buzz Williams era is starting off very rough.

Not so fast ... you know what @triaddukefan says about those in-state rivalries.

 

[southie]

Attention? Aston's contract is up this year, so they have to make a decision one way or another. IMO there's almost no way they decide to extend her under current circumstances.

Herman is under contract through 2023. They're not going to cut him off after this one bad season.

Shaka Smart, meanwhile, is probably on his last legs.

Texas is one of the few football programs where 7-5 is considered a "bad" season. For the record, the decision has already been made that he is staying for his fourth season. Obviously, firing the OC and DC indicates the last chance opportunity to get it right, IMO.

 

[southie]

I think most agree that Gail underachieved. But it should also be pointed out that the B12 as a conference was probably stronger for most of her tenure at UT than what Aston has had to face. The B12 gained W. Virginia and TCU but lost A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou. Of course, it's unknowable what would have happened without conference realignment... can't just assume that teams would be interchangeable in alternative histories. For example, would Mizzou have had their run of strong teams if they were still in the B12?

Gail came to Texas in Spring 2007 when the Big 12 was pretty strong. Baylor had won a national title in 2005. Oklahoma still had the Paris twins. Gary Blair had A&M on the upswing no doubt as they went on to win a national title in 2011. And, Baylor won again in 2012.

She brought along an assistant coach from Duke in Gale Valley; made sense. And, she hired Mickie DeMoss; seemed like a hiring coup. Her head-scratcher hire was Nebraska's Lakale Malone; while she did have Big 12 conference experience/familiarity, she had no recruiting ties to the state of Texas, and neither did the other hires. As it turned out, those coaching hires who didn't understand the recruiting landscape in the state of Texas resulted in sub-par recruiting. I recall Gail later saying that she didn't know how hard recruiting would be at Texas (compared to Duke).

There were some hurt feelings as Texas assistant coaches, Travis Mays and Clarissa Davis, both Longhorn hoopster legends, were not retained; Davis had barely one season coaching at Texas under Conradt. Stringer hired Clarissa at Rutgers, but only lasted one year. Later we'd find out that Clarissa was bad-mouthing Texas and Gail to all the club and high school coaches; never had I been so ashamed of a former Longhorn player, especially one who had represented Texas so well in her collegiate career.

Gail was good enough her first season a win a game at home against Mulkey's Bears, and won at OU. Even won a first round game in the NCAA tourney against Minnesota before getting throttled by UConn. Everyone was optimistic for the future with her at the helm.

All that to say that the hiring of assistant coaches matters; and, it is also the area where I believe Coach Aston failed the most as she continued to hire coaches with less and less college coaching experience.

 

[Plebe]

Gail came to Texas in Spring 2007 when the Big 12 was pretty strong. Baylor had won a national title in 2005. Oklahoma still had the Paris twins. Gary Blair had A&M on the upswing no doubt as they went on to win a national title in 2011. And, Baylor won again in 2012.

She brought along an assistant coach from Duke in Gale Valley; made sense. And, she hired Mickie DeMoss; seemed like a hiring coup. Her head-scratcher hire was Nebraska's Lakale Malone; while she did have Big 12 conference experience/familiarity, she had no recruiting ties to the state of Texas, and neither did the other hires. As it turned out, those coaching hires who didn't understand the recruiting landscape in the state of Texas resulted in sub-par recruiting. I recall Gail later saying that she didn't know how hard recruiting would be at Texas (compared to Duke).

There were some hurt feelings as Texas assistant coaches, Travis Mays and Clarissa Davis, both Longhorn hoopster legends, were not retained; Davis had barely one season coaching at Texas under Conradt. Stringer hired Clarissa at Rutgers, but only lasted one year. Later we'd find out that Clarissa was bad-mouthing Texas and Gail to all the club and high school coaches; never had I been so ashamed of a former Longhorn player, especially one who had represented Texas so well in her collegiate career.

Gail was good enough her first season a win a game at home against Mulkey's Bears, and won at OU. Even won a first round game in the NCAA tourney against Minnesota before getting throttled by UConn. Everyone was optimistic for the future with her at the helm.

All that to say that the hiring of assistant coaches matters; and, it is also the area where I believe Coach Aston failed the most as she continued to hire coaches with less and less college coaching experience.

I'm curious about Conradt's continuing role. How influential was she in the hiring of Goestenkors, in the decision not to retain Mays and Davis, and in the hiring of Aston? Does she continue to wield influence?

 

[Txhoopsalot]

I'm curious about Conradt's continuing role. How influential was she in the hiring of Goestenkors, in the decision not to retain Mays and Davis, and in the hiring of Aston? Does she continue to wield influence?

My opinion.

First, this is all just fan talk. The administration is giving football coach Tom Herman another chance so who is to say they won't stick with Coach Aston awhile longer? Not to mention there is still a season to be completed.

I have no first hand knowledge of the inner workings of the Texas administration. Plonsky was the Women's AD at the time both Goestenkors and Coach Aston were hired. Plonsky and Coach Conradt were closely connected. It makes sense that Conradt was in favor of hiring Goestenkors and probably Coach Aston also. With a new AD and no separate women's athletic department, I do not think any fan knows who or what will influence who is hired should Aston be gone.

Coach Conradt publicly said she would be as near or far as wanted. It appeared that Goestenkors chose "very far" which was one of her mistakes. Goestenkors would have done well to emulate Mack Brown who made a great point of honoring Texas tradition and former long-time Coach Royal.

Whether or not Plonsky, as rumored, advised Goestenkors' not to retain any of the previous staff ( Travis Mays is the one most fans wanted to see stay), Goestenkors could have looked for someone with recruiting connections in the state of Texas and someone who understood the University of Texas. Goestenkors made her own mistakes. Plonsky publicly backed her at every (mis)step. In my view, Coach G did not run the program with the grace and dignity of Coach Conradt. Nor did she show much appreciation for the fans. I seemed to be in the minority, but I was not an early fan of Coach G although I had liked her well enough when she was at Duke. Sometime within a year of Coach G's hiring, I posted my thoughts on what I saw as Coach G's missteps and how she needed to change to succeed at Texas. Nothing I said had anything to do with her actual coaching. I received a lot of immediate negative feedback. Unfortunately, I think my post turned out to be pretty accurate. Goestenkors began to make some positive moves but not soon enough.

Coach Aston has done everything right for a Texas coach except have sufficient on court success. This may be a problem for a number of Texas athletic programs right now. Not all great coaches can deal with the University of Texas environment. I agree with Southie's comments about the assistant coaching hires after Travis Mays and Jalie Mitchell. But to be honest, I expected Jamie Carey to be much better. The post coach hire last summer looks good and that involved some luck.

 

[southie]

My opinion.

First, this is all just fan talk. The administration is giving football coach Tom Herman another chance so who is to say they won't stick with Coach Aston awhile longer? Not to mention there is still a season to be completed.

Apples and oranges. Huge difference in that Aston is in the last (seventh) year of her contract (which had been extended once by 3 years back in 2016). Herman is barely in the third year of his initial 5 year contract, and received a 2 year extension after a successful year two; we're talking like $5 million a year guaranteed. for the next 4 years. Texas isn't eating that money after a sub-par 7-5 season.