Texas loses to Hawaii

[southie]

Do you mean rumors that it wasn't just about her medical situation?

Yes. But, since they are nothing but rumors, better to just keep quiet as what's done is done.

 

[southie]

Should Texas be searching for a new head coach after this season, I think many Texas fans who overvalue the history of our women's hoops program are in for a shock as to candidates who would truly be interested in the job, and who would actually accept it.

Yes, Texas won a national title in 1986, and had enormous fan attendance in the 80's and 90's. Texas was one of the few athletic programs back then who had made a commitment to women's athletics. But, despite all the advantages we had, just one Final Four in 1987 and 2003 after that. Coach Conradt was regarded as a "pioneer" in women's basketball, but she didn't really produce at an elite level the last 20 years of her time at Texas; there was no reason why she couldn't have had half the success Pat Summitt did. Obviously, they weren't cut from the same cloth.

So, when we pursued Gail from Duke with all her success, some questioned why she would even be interested in Texas. She told her players that she had to listen, as "It's Texas". That to me was her perception of Texas as she observed the growth of college women's basketball over the decades. And, of course, there were issues with her AD at Duke and the money being offered that were the ultimate factors in her accepting the Texas job.

For the majority of coaches Texas might pursue from Top 10 programs, I believe all are compensated extremely well, have great fan attendance (some due to their hard work and success), and are competing for a national title and will be for the immediate future. Some Texas fans are throwing out names like Jeff Waltz and Vic Schaeffer; they just don't realize those coaches are earning twice as much as Aston, and they have zero reasons to be interested in the Texas job (other than to get their AD's to increase their salaries to keep them).

So, that leaves coaches from the PAC who really are not paid very well (in most women's sports); forget if Graves is being compensated like Waltz and Schaeffer. Texas was able to lure Oregon's very successful softball head coach 18 months ago because their AD wouldn't pay him what Texas was offering him. Not sure that would be the case if Texas made overtures to Graves.

UCLA is notorious for not paying their women's head coaches well at all. So, Cori Close would be the most attainable coach out there, IMO. But, UCLA is her alma mater, and doubling her salary might not be enough motivation for her to leave the West coach. She is a great recruiter, including getting kids from Texas and Australia. While she hasn't gotten to the Final Four yet, I think she's really "close" ;-)

The other dynamic at Texas is that up until just 2 years ago, the men's and women's athletic departments were separate and headed by two different ADs (one male and one female). The female AD, Chris Plonsky, seems to have had an aversion to hiring male head coaches for the women's athletic programs. She recently did hire male coaches to lead our rowing, tennis, and golf programs; low and behold, all are doing great.

With a combined athletic program now being led by one male AD, the hiring of a male head coach for the softball program and the Track & Field program under his leadership now has Texas with only 3 female head coaches (Swimming, Basketball and soccer, the latter two which are not doing well). I don't know how this number compares to other programs across the country, but hiring the most qualified candidate should be the objective regardless of gender; still, there are many who are upset that women head coaches across the board are decreasing in numbers in favor of male head coaches.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Should Texas be searching for a new head coach after this season, I think many Texas fans who overvalue the history of our women's hoops program are in for a shock as to candidates who would truly be interested in the job, and who would actually accept it.

Yes, Texas won a national title in 1986, and had enormous fan attendance in the 80's and 90's. Texas was one of the few athletic programs back then who had made a commitment to women's athletics. But, despite all the advantages we had, just one Final Four in 1987 and 2003 after that. Coach Conradt was regarded as a "pioneer" in women's basketball, but she didn't really produce at an elite level the last 20 years of her time at Texas; there was no reason why she couldn't have had half the success Pat Summitt did. Obviously, they weren't cut from the same cloth.

So, when we pursued Gail from Duke with all her success, some questioned why she would even be interested in Texas. She told her players that she had to listen, as "It's Texas". That to me was her perception of Texas as she observed the growth of college women's basketball over the decades. And, of course, there were issues with her AD at Duke and the money being offered that were the ultimate factors in her accepting the Texas job.

For the majority of coaches Texas might pursue from Top 10 programs, I believe all are compensated extremely well, have great fan attendance (some due to their hard work and success), and are competing for a national title and will be for the immediate future. Some Texas fans are throwing out names like Jeff Waltz and Vic Schaeffer; they just don't realize those coaches are earning twice as much as Aston, and they have zero reasons to be interested in the Texas job (other than to get their AD's to increase their salaries to keep them).

So, that leaves coaches from the PAC who really are not paid very well (in most women's sports); forget if Graves is being compensated like Waltz and Schaeffer. Texas was able to lure Oregon's very successful softball head coach 18 months ago because their AD wouldn't pay him what Texas was offering him. Not sure that would be the case if Texas made overtures to Graves.

UCLA is notorious for not paying their women's head coaches well at all. So, Cori Close would be the most attainable coach out there, IMO. But, UCLA is her alma mater, and doubling her salary might not be enough motivation for her to leave the West coach. She is a great recruiter, including getting kids from Texas and Australia. While she hasn't gotten to the Final Four yet, I think she's really "close" ;-)

The other dynamic at Texas is that up until just 2 years ago, the men's and women's athletic departments were separate and headed by two different ADs (one male and one female). The female AD, Chris Plonsky, seems to have had an aversion to hiring male head coaches for the women's athletic programs. She recently did hire male coaches to lead our rowing, tennis, and golf programs; low and behold, all are doing great.

With a combined athletic program now being led by one male AD, the hiring of a male head coach for the softball program and the Track & Field program under his leadership now has Texas with only 3 female head coaches (Swimming, Basketball and soccer, the latter two which are not doing well). I don't know how this number compares to other programs across the country, but hiring the most qualified candidate should be the objective regardless of gender; still, there are many who are upset that women head coaches across the board are decreasing in numbers in favor of male head coaches.

Well they made the right hire in Softball. Stealing Coach White from Oregon. Texas has so much going for it based on location, school spirit, facilities, money, etc. I hope they can nab a good P5 coach.

Heck the Washington State Coach a former UT guard is a better option than Ashton right now.

 

[DefenseBB]

Well a few correction s for you @southie, Gail was there for 5 years and was abysmal so while some try to couch it on burning recruiting in Texas, it’s was a lot more than that. She was terrible in conference play and her teams never developed over the course of the year. As evidenced by her diminishing coaching jobs, she just lost the ability to coach up players and teams. No P5 school should take a chance with her.
Aston’s pedigree as an assistant at Texas and Baylor, the success she had at Charlotte, her recruiting connections all proved she deserved a shot. Which she has so clearly surpassed anything that Gail ever did. Gail’s highest finish was 4th in conference with two 6th place and two 7th place finishes! . Even Jody struggled her last years from 1997-2007, she had 3 years of a phenomenal run of two 1sts and a 2nd sandwiched by 6 years of 4th or lower and 2 years of 7th/8th. Yikes. Karen has finished 7th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd every year since. Even with this deplorable start, Texas should still finish 2nd this year. Of course the Big12 is not strong but still.

My point is Karen has made Texas relevant again after mostly 20 plus years of irrelevance. That isn’t something to ignore.
All that said,the wheels have come off and it might be time to see if you could get an actual “coach” and recruiter, just not sure who that could be as you noted. I wouldn’t go back to the “Texas family tree” as no one has distinguished themselves. It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Figurehead]

Well they made the right hire in Softball. Stealing Coach White from Oregon. Texas has so much going for it based on location, school spirit, facilities, money, etc. I hope they can nab a good P5 coach.

Heck the Washington State Coach a former UT guard is a better option than Ashton right now.

Lol! White's teams had a history of choking in the WCWS. What outsiders did not know it was all about feeding Whites arrogance first,chasing his own money and the actual program after that.

Btw, If your looking for a good price to pay for a basketball coach see Rueck at Oregon State. Coach Fortier at Gonzaga's program is another good choice.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Btw, If your looking for a good price to pay for a basketball coach see Rueck at Oregon State. Coach Fortier at Gonzaga's program is another good choice.

No don't take a look at Rueck, he's perfectly happy in Corvallis. Some GU fans are still pretty salty about Graves going to Oregon, if another P5 school scooped up Fortier they would probably go apocalyptic.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Lol! White's teams had a history of choking in the WCWS. What outsiders did not know it was all about feeding Whites arrogance first,chasing his own money and the actual program after that.

Btw, If your looking for a good price to pay for a basketball coach see Rueck at Oregon State. Coach Fortier at Gonzaga's program is another good choice.

Getting to WCWS and winning is the PAC 12 in Softball is a huge feat. I don't think he choked in those world series as some really good teams have played there. He took a crappy Oregon program and put them ahead of two of the winningest softball programs in the nation. I could be wrong but I think UCLA has more national championships than UConn in softball than UConn. I hate to say this, but I disagree with your analysis. Just what he did last year with what Connie had left was actually really surprising. I have a feeling Oklahoma won't be the only powerhouse in softball for the B12 after a few more seasons.

Unlike Basketball most no.1 seeds struggle to win it all in Softball.

 

[biobioprof]

Well a few correction s for you @southie, Gail was there for 5 years and was abysmal so while some try to couch it on burning recruiting in Texas, it’s was a lot more than that. She was terrible in conference play and her teams never developed over the course of the year. As evidenced by her diminishing coaching jobs, she just lost the ability to coach up players and teams. No P5 school should take a chance with her.
Aston’s pedigree as an assistant at Texas and Baylor, the success she had at Charlotte, her recruiting connections all proved she deserved a shot. Which she has so clearly surpassed anything that Gail ever did. Gail’s highest finish was 4th in conference with two 6th place and two 7th place finishes! . Even Jody struggled her last years from 1997-2007, she had 3 years of a phenomenal run of two 1sts and a 2nd sandwiched by 6 years of 4th or lower and 2 years of 7th/8th. Yikes. Karen has finished 7th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd every year since. Even with this deplorable start, Texas should still finish 2nd this year. Of course the Big12 is not strong but still.

My point is Karen has made Texas relevant again after mostly 20 plus years of irrelevance. That isn’t something to ignore.
All that said,the wheels have come off and it might be time to see if you could get an actual “coach” and recruiter, just not sure who that could be as you noted. I wouldn’t go back to the “Texas family tree” as no one has distinguished themselves. It will be interesting to watch.

I think most agree that Gail underachieved. But it should also be pointed out that the B12 as a conference was probably stronger for most of her tenure at UT than what Aston has had to face. The B12 gained W. Virginia and TCU but lost A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou. Of course, it's unknowable what would have happened without conference realignment... can't just assume that teams would be interchangeable in alternative histories. For example, would Mizzou have had their run of strong teams if they were still in the B12?

 

[DallasBUFan]

How much attention will Texas give Ashton's downfall, while Herman (Football Coach) seems to be on his own downward spiral? We know Men's athletics still takes priority, just it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I could be wrong but I think UCLA has more national championships than UConn in softball than UConn.

I had to look that up. 13, but one was vacated so officially 12 NCAA Championships. Plus 1 AIAW Championship prior to softball being a participating sport with the NCAA.

 

[Plebe]

How much attention will Texas give Ashton's downfall, while Herman (Football Coach) seems to be on his own downward spiral? We know Men's athletics still takes priority, just it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Attention? Aston's contract is up this year, so they have to make a decision one way or another. IMO there's almost no way they decide to extend her under current circumstances.

Herman is under contract through 2023. They're not going to cut him off after this one bad season.

Shaka Smart, meanwhile, is probably on his last legs.

 

[biobioprof]

Attention? Aston's contract is up this year, so they have to make a decision one way or another. IMO there's almost no way they decide to extend her under current circumstances.

Herman is under contract through 2023. They're not going to cut him off after this one bad season.

Shaka Smart, meanwhile, is probably on his last legs.

Shaka should get to 8-1 after Texas plays A&M on Sunday. Year 1 of the Buzz Williams era is starting off very rough.

 

[Plebe]

Shaka should get to 8-1 after Texas plays A&M on Sunday. Year 1 of the Buzz Williams era is starting off very rough.

Not so fast ... you know what @triaddukefan says about those in-state rivalries.

 

[southie]

Attention? Aston's contract is up this year, so they have to make a decision one way or another. IMO there's almost no way they decide to extend her under current circumstances.

Herman is under contract through 2023. They're not going to cut him off after this one bad season.

Shaka Smart, meanwhile, is probably on his last legs.

Texas is one of the few football programs where 7-5 is considered a "bad" season. For the record, the decision has already been made that he is staying for his fourth season. Obviously, firing the OC and DC indicates the last chance opportunity to get it right, IMO.

 

[southie]

I think most agree that Gail underachieved. But it should also be pointed out that the B12 as a conference was probably stronger for most of her tenure at UT than what Aston has had to face. The B12 gained W. Virginia and TCU but lost A&M, Nebraska, Colorado, and Mizzou. Of course, it's unknowable what would have happened without conference realignment... can't just assume that teams would be interchangeable in alternative histories. For example, would Mizzou have had their run of strong teams if they were still in the B12?

Gail came to Texas in Spring 2007 when the Big 12 was pretty strong. Baylor had won a national title in 2005. Oklahoma still had the Paris twins. Gary Blair had A&M on the upswing no doubt as they went on to win a national title in 2011. And, Baylor won again in 2012.

She brought along an assistant coach from Duke in Gale Valley; made sense. And, she hired Mickie DeMoss; seemed like a hiring coup. Her head-scratcher hire was Nebraska's Lakale Malone; while she did have Big 12 conference experience/familiarity, she had no recruiting ties to the state of Texas, and neither did the other hires. As it turned out, those coaching hires who didn't understand the recruiting landscape in the state of Texas resulted in sub-par recruiting. I recall Gail later saying that she didn't know how hard recruiting would be at Texas (compared to Duke).

There were some hurt feelings as Texas assistant coaches, Travis Mays and Clarissa Davis, both Longhorn hoopster legends, were not retained; Davis had barely one season coaching at Texas under Conradt. Stringer hired Clarissa at Rutgers, but only lasted one year. Later we'd find out that Clarissa was bad-mouthing Texas and Gail to all the club and high school coaches; never had I been so ashamed of a former Longhorn player, especially one who had represented Texas so well in her collegiate career.

Gail was good enough her first season a win a game at home against Mulkey's Bears, and won at OU. Even won a first round game in the NCAA tourney against Minnesota before getting throttled by UConn. Everyone was optimistic for the future with her at the helm.

All that to say that the hiring of assistant coaches matters; and, it is also the area where I believe Coach Aston failed the most as she continued to hire coaches with less and less college coaching experience.

 

[Plebe]

Gail came to Texas in Spring 2007 when the Big 12 was pretty strong. Baylor had won a national title in 2005. Oklahoma still had the Paris twins. Gary Blair had A&M on the upswing no doubt as they went on to win a national title in 2011. And, Baylor won again in 2012.

She brought along an assistant coach from Duke in Gale Valley; made sense. And, she hired Mickie DeMoss; seemed like a hiring coup. Her head-scratcher hire was Nebraska's Lakale Malone; while she did have Big 12 conference experience/familiarity, she had no recruiting ties to the state of Texas, and neither did the other hires. As it turned out, those coaching hires who didn't understand the recruiting landscape in the state of Texas resulted in sub-par recruiting. I recall Gail later saying that she didn't know how hard recruiting would be at Texas (compared to Duke).

There were some hurt feelings as Texas assistant coaches, Travis Mays and Clarissa Davis, both Longhorn hoopster legends, were not retained; Davis had barely one season coaching at Texas under Conradt. Stringer hired Clarissa at Rutgers, but only lasted one year. Later we'd find out that Clarissa was bad-mouthing Texas and Gail to all the club and high school coaches; never had I been so ashamed of a former Longhorn player, especially one who had represented Texas so well in her collegiate career.

Gail was good enough her first season a win a game at home against Mulkey's Bears, and won at OU. Even won a first round game in the NCAA tourney against Minnesota before getting throttled by UConn. Everyone was optimistic for the future with her at the helm.

All that to say that the hiring of assistant coaches matters; and, it is also the area where I believe Coach Aston failed the most as she continued to hire coaches with less and less college coaching experience.

I'm curious about Conradt's continuing role. How influential was she in the hiring of Goestenkors, in the decision not to retain Mays and Davis, and in the hiring of Aston? Does she continue to wield influence?

 

[Txhoopsalot]

I'm curious about Conradt's continuing role. How influential was she in the hiring of Goestenkors, in the decision not to retain Mays and Davis, and in the hiring of Aston? Does she continue to wield influence?

My opinion.

First, this is all just fan talk. The administration is giving football coach Tom Herman another chance so who is to say they won't stick with Coach Aston awhile longer? Not to mention there is still a season to be completed.

I have no first hand knowledge of the inner workings of the Texas administration. Plonsky was the Women's AD at the time both Goestenkors and Coach Aston were hired. Plonsky and Coach Conradt were closely connected. It makes sense that Conradt was in favor of hiring Goestenkors and probably Coach Aston also. With a new AD and no separate women's athletic department, I do not think any fan knows who or what will influence who is hired should Aston be gone.

Coach Conradt publicly said she would be as near or far as wanted. It appeared that Goestenkors chose "very far" which was one of her mistakes. Goestenkors would have done well to emulate Mack Brown who made a great point of honoring Texas tradition and former long-time Coach Royal.

Whether or not Plonsky, as rumored, advised Goestenkors' not to retain any of the previous staff ( Travis Mays is the one most fans wanted to see stay), Goestenkors could have looked for someone with recruiting connections in the state of Texas and someone who understood the University of Texas. Goestenkors made her own mistakes. Plonsky publicly backed her at every (mis)step. In my view, Coach G did not run the program with the grace and dignity of Coach Conradt. Nor did she show much appreciation for the fans. I seemed to be in the minority, but I was not an early fan of Coach G although I had liked her well enough when she was at Duke. Sometime within a year of Coach G's hiring, I posted my thoughts on what I saw as Coach G's missteps and how she needed to change to succeed at Texas. Nothing I said had anything to do with her actual coaching. I received a lot of immediate negative feedback. Unfortunately, I think my post turned out to be pretty accurate. Goestenkors began to make some positive moves but not soon enough.

Coach Aston has done everything right for a Texas coach except have sufficient on court success. This may be a problem for a number of Texas athletic programs right now. Not all great coaches can deal with the University of Texas environment. I agree with Southie's comments about the assistant coaching hires after Travis Mays and Jalie Mitchell. But to be honest, I expected Jamie Carey to be much better. The post coach hire last summer looks good and that involved some luck.

 

[southie]

My opinion.

First, this is all just fan talk. The administration is giving football coach Tom Herman another chance so who is to say they won't stick with Coach Aston awhile longer? Not to mention there is still a season to be completed.

Apples and oranges. Huge difference in that Aston is in the last (seventh) year of her contract (which had been extended once by 3 years back in 2016). Herman is barely in the third year of his initial 5 year contract, and received a 2 year extension after a successful year two; we're talking like $5 million a year guaranteed. for the next 4 years. Texas isn't eating that money after a sub-par 7-5 season.