Texas AD: "The programs outside the P5 aren't pulling their weight."

[Calamitous]

"We are the ones making the money and carrying the liability. The others don't make any money. Nobody wants to watch them on TV. If they want to make it to the P5, they would have to invest more in their sports programs. Or they could simply step aside [and eliminate sports]"

This is a very broad generalization. I agree that many non-P5 schools fall well short in expenditures, revenue, facilities, etc, but there are about 15 to 20 non-P5 schools that do as well as (or are close to) the many other P5 schools. For example, UNLV and UConn are a part of the $60MM revenue club, right there with the "big boys." And some non-P5 schools are up there in revenue without extra TV revenue supporting them. Some P5 schools like Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas and Alabama are greater than $140MM in revenue. There aren't a lot of P5 schools that can compete with those 4 in any given year. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if Steve Patterson thinks Iowa State should drop down a level because they only generate $62MM.

 

[upstater]

There is no doubt that people watch other teams, just not as much. I have not verified it, but have no reason to doubt what my SEC friends (officials not fans) tell me. They tell me that there is no comparison between the FB TV ratings of P5 and the rest of Div 1. We can argue about the platforms that carry the broadcasts (ABC/ESPN v ESPNU/ESPN3) or the day of the week and time of day all we want but they get the better time slots on the bigger carriers. We can have all the chicken/egg discussions we want but that is not likely to change. As long as we are in the AAC we will be relegated to having most of our games on lesser platforms and/or days and times. It has not happened yet but look for this to be extended to MBB as well over the next two years.

As far as the GT AD's comments go he is just reflecting what the P5 want. They are more than willing to fund the policing required for FB as long the police work for them and enforce their rules.

I am not saying any of this is "fair", just reality of being in the AAC with our nose pressed against the window of the candy shop.

I have no doubt the G5 and all the rest are nowhere near the P5. He was saying there is no individual school out there that draws interest.

 

[itgoeslike]

The comment while pompous and smacks of elitism, otherwise is dead on. The only problem we have is that we don't fit that g5 profile, and here are few of us out here. Quick name any school with more national championships any national championships outside the P5?

We won more NCAA national championships this year than an entire P5 conference. Yah, that would be the home conference of the Texas AD and the Big 12 Commish. It is annoying as hell.

 

[Dooley]

We won more NCAA national championships this year than an entire P5 conference. Yah, that would be the home conference of the Texas AD and the Big 12 Commish. It is annoying as hell.

Yup. His weight pulling B12 Champion lost to UCF (an AAC team...gasp!) and severely underperformed in the NCAA Tourney...again.

Once again, this guy can go suck off an armadillo.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Let's give him what he wants then...a relegation system. The top 64 spending athletic programs are in the P5 and those that drop below fall out. Include some formula for valuing facilities in the calculation as well. I'll take that deal. That's the ridiculous horses_t of this whole thing, that it pretends to be some objective measure, while including many schools on a legacy basis, which should be relegated to the 2nd division on merit.

 

[Sea Goat]

Here's the comeback - if it's all about 'pulling one's weight' and competing at high level then let's revamp the entire P-5 system. No room for sentimental favorites, no teacher's pets, no victims of anal retentive, parochial thinking - let's start fresh and create 4 or 5 16 member conferences of accomplished institutions, with proven product and solid academics to boot. UConn finds a spot easily under that scenario. This process would expose the extensive decay in the current P-5 system and provide glaring examples of P-5 members that in no, way, shape or form "belong" according to the alleged current entry rules.

With all this talk of what we have to do to get there, wouldn't it be fairer and more productive to cull out the existing P-5 dead wood and start fresh? There is a list of schools that would be terrified of such a process, but UConn would welcome it.

 

[Sea Goat]

Pulling weight? UCONN has pulled more weight than 25-35% of the grandfathered P5 schools. Maybe/probably more.

This dude can go suck off an armadillo.

This poor little bast-rd reads the Boneyard blog and saw your comment - he's so damn scared that he fainted at the thought of your command to Patterson!

 

[Dooley]

Here's the comeback - if it's all about 'pulling one's weight' and competing at high level then let's revamp the entire P-5 system. No room for sentimental favorites, no teacher's pets, no victims of anal retentive, parochial thinking - let's start fresh and create 4 or 5 16 member conferences of accomplished institutions, with proven product and solid academics to boot. UConn finds a spot easily under that scenario. This process would expose the extensive decay in the current P-5 system and provide glaring examples of P-5 members that in no, way, shape or form "belong" according to the alleged current entry rules.

With all this talk of what we have to do to get there, wouldn't it be fairer and more productive to cull out the existing P-5 dead wood and start fresh? There is a list of schools that would be terrified of such a process, but UConn would welcome it.

Spot on. I think we've all been saying this since this whole process of CR started. If there was a P5 re-draft based on merit/"pulling weight" (which I deem to be entire Athletic Department success), UCONN would be drafted ahead of roughly 1/3 of the grandfathered schools currently in the P5.

Off the very top of my head, UCONN has pulled more weight than: BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, Wake, NC State, Maryland, Pitt, Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Arkansas, Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona St, Washington, Washington St, Oregon St, UCLA, Cal, and Utah.

As an Athletic Department as a WHOLE, I'd place UCONN above 1/3 of the grandfathered P5 schools who have either won very little or won a very long time ago (and haven't renewed their "weight pulling" membership card in decades). I also think UCONN would be on equivalent level as other schools (Duke, Kentucky, etc). Then there would be debate how we stack up against one-trick ponies (namely, schools with football reputations only): Clemson, VT, Miami, Tennessee, Texas A&M, WVU, etc. Granted, winning a football National Championship is seemingly more difficult than winning a basketball championship simply because you have had to be good AND popular to get votes.

It's an interesting debate for sure. But since '99, UCONN has 4x MBB championships, 9x WBB, 1 BCS football season, Soccer championship, Field Hockey championships, Baseball College World Series appearance, and an upgrade to Hockey East. I'd say that that is some significant "weight pulling" in comparison with the P5.

 

[Dooley]

View attachment 6529


This poor little bast-rd reads the Boneyard blog and saw your comment - he's so damn scared that he fainted at the thought of your command to Patterson!

Poor armadillo. He's probably saying "I've had better".

 

[Stinger92860]

View attachment 6529


This poor little bast-rd reads the Boneyard blog and saw your comment - he's so damn scared that he fainted at the thought of your command to Patterson!

Playing dead or dead?

 

[Pudge]

Texas & a few others are on their way to more arrogance.

65 is too broad. They'll soon get some separation to make it 15-20 solid and the other 45 can tread water.

1. UCF is a good "Brand" for one element of pushback. Many schools are growing at 25% clips every 3-4 years. Like UCF, UMass-Lowell, Rowan & Texas State. Things change. In 15 years, it's hard to believe they just made it impossible for a truly solid Program to rise through merit from Atletic excellence. And Slugs like BC continue.

2. UConn is a good example of a Program that can pull together a great revenue sport run in multiple sports - with a fan base - and get excluded by the Swoffords. By Steve Patterson. We'll out play 45 of these schools in most sports. And win NCs.

3. TV money? Our viewing habits & fan bases will change. That's the way the world works.

4. When you think College ... The American mindset always includes New England. And we are the best Athletic Department in this core traditional region. Excluding us & others really fires me up. I don't freaking care about the Mississippi Statrs, Vandys etc. this P5 is rotten.

 

[UConn Dan]

Fishy...sure...I don't think he was talking about any one school...only a generic finger pointing at the "have nots". $70 million is a pretty healthy figure....Uconn's revenue was reported as $63 million in 2012-13...pretty decent. Would be ranked #55 in athletic revenue....about the same as GT, and more then Pitt and Wake.

Now give UConn the same TV money as those schools and see how far UConn shoots up the revenue ladder.

 

[JayRU09]

If I was the UCONN AD I would be swinging for the fences in response to this quote. I'd be calling ESPN, WFAN, Fox, anyone, to get out the word on how wrong this is.

Get that publicity.

 

[ZooCougar]

Now give UConn the same TV money as those schools and see how far UConn shoots up the revenue ladder.

The P5 is a self appointed, self licking ice cream cone.

 

[primus74]

I'd argue that Texas isn't "pulling their weight". The fact that they aren't in the top-5 of every major college sport is mind-blowing. They have every advantage over 99.5% of colleges from athletic revenues to expenditures to fertile recruiting grounds in every sport to being located in a cool, hip city. Maybe it's time for their AD to focus on what's going wrong in his athletic department and stop trying to exclude everyone else to make it easier for his teams to win.

 

[btstimpy]

"We are the ones making the money and carrying the liability. The others don't make any money. Nobody wants to watch them on TV. If they want to make it to the P5, they would have to invest more in their sports programs. Or they could simply step aside [and eliminate sports]"

This is a NY Times article titled "NCAA's vote on New Rules Creating New Divisions Among Conferences."

Don't know why I'm having difficulty with the link.

UConn has spent over $200m on facilities in the last decade, and it isn't finished yet.

His statement is rather pompous. I'm surprised he's saying stuff like this. Texas does make a lot of money and has the largest budget in college athletics. I'm not sure Texas is pulling its weight only sponsoring 20 sports. There is no excuse for Texas not to have a men's soccer, wrestling, or women's rowing team. Not with their budget anyway. I can understand not having lacrosse, field hockey, or ice hockey as they are somewhat regional. But soccer? Come on!

 

[itgoeslike]

Of course, CR is not about creating a system that defines the best. In fact, it's the very opposite. It's designed to preserve a perception of the best and reinforce it through a system of exclusive benefits and exclusionary tactics to achieve the ultimate goal, which is to increase the windfall for each of the individual schools and conferences. It has little to do with supporting the student athlete. The CR process will result in a net decrease of scholarships for student athletes from football to rowing.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Of course, CR is not about creating a system that defines the best. In fact, it's the very opposite. It's designed to preserve a perception of the best and reinforce it through a system of exclusive benefits and exclusionary tactics to achieve the ultimate goal, which is to increase the windfall for each of the individual schools and conferences. It has little to do with supporting the student athlete. The CR process will result in a net decrease of scholarships for student athletes from football to rowing.

Yep. The system is built upon self-preservation. God forbid any newcomers rock the boat or try to get into the club. Instead it's a weird mix of top athletic departments and old money type schools that have no business being part of the most competitive collegiate athletic conferences.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Of course, CR is not about creating a system that defines the best. In fact, it's the very opposite. It's designed to preserve a perception of the best and reinforce it through a system of exclusive benefits and exclusionary tactics to achieve the ultimate goal, which is to increase the windfall for each of the individual schools and conferences. It has little to do with supporting the student athlete. The CR process will result in a net decrease of scholarships for student athletes from football to rowing.

That's the truth. No one is fighting for the guys and gals that are on rowing scholarship at a G5 school. All this does is hurt those student athletes while make life easier for FB and BB players at P5 schools. At end of the day, there will be many student athletes hurt by this that don't play FB or BB and are at G5 or lower division schools. The system is designed to enrich the schools that are already in P5 conferences and screw everyone else.

 

[Samoo]

Now give UConn the same TV money as those schools and see how far UConn shoots up the revenue ladder.

Don't have the time or inclination, but it would be interesting to see where UCONN's revenues would be if they the same TV payout as each of the P5 conferences and where that would rank us.

 

[upstater]

Don't have the time or inclination, but it would be interesting to see where UCONN's revenues would be if they the same TV payout as each of the P5 conferences and where that would rank us.

Add $20m to $70m in the ACC and B12...
Add $35m to $70m in the SEC and B1G...

 

[BoatShow]

Can't wait to pull our weight against their hoops team in Storrs.

 

[chitown76]

UConn don't pull its weight they just beat the hell out of the power 5 every year in basketball and are the most successful program in the last decade in basketball don't worry your time will come UConn hopefully by next summer.

 

[arnie3]

That's the rub.

The haves can point over our heads at the have-nots, but the machinery set in motion will chew us up just the same. Texas Southern, for example, doesn't really have anything to lose in this whole kerfuffle, but the high-revenue/high-expense club outside of the P5 certainly does.

It's not a good spot.

That's pretty much the state of the NCAA Div 1 outside of the P5. The P5 wants to be set up for a non-fail situation. If you're in fine. If you're on the outside not so much. The Big XII had a near disaster when 4 schools left, and they (mostly meaning TX and OK Presidents) have come out swinging. But seriously what have they gotten in return- TCU and WVU? They're defending a losing position. Unfortunately they are doing it from a power position. This is almost like a Seinfeld Bizarro episode. Unfortunately, it's not funny.

 

[tduconn]

Pulling weight I think references football only.

I whole heartedly agree UConn has had success in many of its non revenue sports, thanks to the undivided commitment of its athletes. Unfortunately, many of these do not draw large viewing audiances outside of friends and family........and that's a shame.
And it won't mean much in any conference realignment talk.

A few years ago an antagonistic AD from the northeast institution stated football brings in 85% of the sports revenue.....the advertising dollars flock to most of America's #1 sport at the pro and college level. An the NC in FB will accelerate that income.
UConn definitely does not pull its weight in football. We can toot our horn, deservedly so, at the men's BB success. And despite WBB's successes, there are not many institutions with a large WBB fan base or interest.

We have to be careful who we criticize as "bottom feeders" of P-5 conferences....and who pulls their weight.

I didn't know much about Vanderbilt until my niece (UConn '12) received an academic scholarship to their medical school. Despite their SEC recruiting disadvantages in the "major sports" because of academic requirements, their baseball team has sent many players to the majors, and won the NCAA World Series this year. Franklin turned their football program into being a legitimate competitor in the SEC, and this year their recruited class is "the best ever".

Fans of P-5 programs may read this board, and I wouldn't want our fans "sometimes un-informed" opinions of certain schools in P-5 conferences turn a possible "yes" vote to a "no" vote in a realignment scenario. To some, what may be perceived as an "arrogant attitude" may do as much damage "in the background" as the success or lack of success on a field or court.

 

[businesslawyer]

Good grief. Maybe instead of going to sleep tonight, I should just be complaining that Texas isn't pulling it's weight in men's or women's basketball, and I'm sick and tired of their freeloading on my success.

As younger people text, FOH. Sheesh.

 

[Calamitous]

Pulling weight I think references football only.

I whole heartedly agree UConn has had success in many of its non revenue sports, thanks to the undivided commitment of its athletes. Unfortunately, many of these do not draw large viewing audiances outside of friends and family...and that's a shame.
And it won't mean much in any conference realignment talk.

A few years ago an antagonistic AD from the northeast institution stated football brings in 85% of the sports revenue.....the advertising dollars flock to most of America's #1 sport at the pro and college level. An the NC in FB will accelerate that income.
UConn definitely does not pull its weight in football. We can toot our horn, deservedly so, at the men's BB success. And despite WBB's successes, there are not many institutions with a large WBB fan base or interest.

We have to be careful who we criticize as "bottom feeders" of P-5 conferences....and who pulls their weight.

I didn't know much about Vanderbilt until my niece (UConn '12) received an academic scholarship to their medical school. Despite their SEC recruiting disadvantages in the "major sports" because of academic requirements, their baseball team has sent many players to the majors, and won the NCAA World Series this year. Franklin turned their football program into being a legitimate competitor in the SEC, and this year their recruited class is "the best ever".

Fans of P-5 programs may read this board, and I wouldn't want our fans "sometimes un-informed" opinions of certain schools in P-5 conferences turn a possible "yes" vote to a "no" vote in a realignment scenario. To some, what may be perceived as an "arrogant attitude" may do as much damage "in the background" as the success or lack of success on a field or court.

I agree to some extent, but there are 15 to 20 non-P5 universities that can make a claim that they are as good, or better than mid-level and low-level P5 schools in football. Your Huskies have been to a BCS bowl and won the Big East several times in your relatively short FBS level football status. With the exception of last year, UConn typically has better football than Wake, UVa, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Kansas, ISU, Kentucky, California and Colorado recently. It's not so much arrogance that I see as it is pure frustration on the Husky fans (and Bearcat, BYU Cougar, BSU Bronco fans...) part being left out of the party. I think many have the right to complain, but I do get your point.

I have some good experience knowing what it is like having your school being passed over for others time after time. You get frustrated and start hating particular conferences because of the exclusion. Like Husky fans, I used to loathe the ACC, but they eventually came around after 50+ years and 6 or more rejections and allowed my school in (note my school forced it's way in and it wasn't pretty).

And as for message board talk, I would hope things said on here wouldn't reflect badly on UConn to the B1G or ACC. University Presidents and their BOT make the big decisions with some added input from influential ADs and high-level coaches. This board is mostly civil with a few belligerent ones... but that's every message board.

 

[upstater]

Pulling weight I think references football only.

I whole heartedly agree UConn has had success in many of its non revenue sports, thanks to the undivided commitment of its athletes. Unfortunately, many of these do not draw large viewing audiances outside of friends and family...and that's a shame.
And it won't mean much in any conference realignment talk.

A few years ago an antagonistic AD from the northeast institution stated football brings in 85% of the sports revenue.....the advertising dollars flock to most of America's #1 sport at the pro and college level. An the NC in FB will accelerate that income.
UConn definitely does not pull its weight in football. We can toot our horn, deservedly so, at the men's BB success. And despite WBB's successes, there are not many institutions with a large WBB fan base or interest.

We have to be careful who we criticize as "bottom feeders" of P-5 conferences....and who pulls their weight.

I didn't know much about Vanderbilt until my niece (UConn '12) received an academic scholarship to their medical school. Despite their SEC recruiting disadvantages in the "major sports" because of academic requirements, their baseball team has sent many players to the majors, and won the NCAA World Series this year. Franklin turned their football program into being a legitimate competitor in the SEC, and this year their recruited class is "the best ever".

Fans of P-5 programs may read this board, and I wouldn't want our fans "sometimes un-informed" opinions of certain schools in P-5 conferences turn a possible "yes" vote to a "no" vote in a realignment scenario. To some, what may be perceived as an "arrogant attitude" may do as much damage "in the background" as the success or lack of success on a field or court.

Somehow UConn makes it to $70m athletic budget.

UConn also played Vandy in recent years, twice. Franklin is now gone. I don't think there's much of a difference between UConn and the bottom 50% of any conference, except maybe the SEC. All these schools get 3 star level players and try to develop them.

But let's step outside talking about UConn and consider the teams that have had more success than UConn at football, like BYU, UCF, Cincy, Boise St.

 

[upstater]

He brings socialism into the discussion. Do the P5 share any money with these conferences? The money is all going to the P5.

What the heck is he talking about anyway? How is Texas subsidizing SMU?

 

[Calamitous]

Somehow UConn makes it to $70m athletic budget.

UConn also played Vandy in recent years, twice. Franklin is now gone. I don't think there's much of a difference between UConn and the bottom 50% of any conference, except maybe the SEC. All these schools get 3 star level players and try to develop them.

But let's step outside talking about UConn and consider the teams that have had more success than UConn at football, like BYU, UCF, Cincy, Boise St.

You can almost discard the SEC from any equation in football. They are in a league of their own. The rabid fanbases would never allow for subpar football except for Kentucky and most of the time Vandy.