Tevin Mack (Committed to Texas)
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Come on.
Fishy
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All right then, it's a good thing.
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It seems awfully negative especially when the kid hasn't committed anywhere yet. Even when we miss out on a recruit it almost always works in our favor. VCU fans will be distraught if they don't get Mack, UConn's response should always be "Next."
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No, but a thing with an explanation. KO is still in the process of developing contacts and networks of the type that could put him onto a talent like Mack or Larrier early in the game. He's just at the start of his third year as a head coach, and - much as we all love St. Jim - it's not like UConn was a recruiting juggernaut before the coaching change. This wasn't Roy Williams inheriting UNC.
So it's going to take time. We'll miss more than we hit on these late recruitments, but here's the thing: KO already appears to be ahead of the game in New England. And with all the talent coming out of this region, that will be more than enough to float us along for the next two or three years while our recruiting apparatus gets up and running.
Will it suck to lose guys like Mack to schools like VCU? Absolutely. But at the same time, Smart is a fantastic recruiter who knows how to identify the guys he wants early and close late. That's what the Mack recruitment is for them - we're trying to steal their goodies, not the other way around.
Also bear in mind that this current recruiting class (Adams & Enoch) is already more highly regarded than the one we brought in last year, and that one was good enough to produce two freshmen capable of high-level contributions to a national championship. We may have to drop into the 100s or even off the boards entirely (Lubin) again this year, but... well, I'm ok with that. It's probably not ideal, but we've won 4 titles with that strategy before, and I suspect there's a few more out there for us.
Fishy
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I don't really need a primer on recruiting - thanks for your thoughts, though.
The idea that we've dipped "off the boards" to win championships isn't accurate - we've won championships by winning recruiting battles, not losing them.
The idea that we've dipped "off the boards" to win championships isn't accurate - we've won championships by winning recruiting battles, not losing them.
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You're right - it was awesome when Wayne Turner finally got us that first title.
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This isn't really accurate at all. Okafor was a consolation prize after we missed on Isaiah Fox, we got Gordon because Duke never offered, we got Kemba when we whiffed on Jennings, we got Shabazz to reclassify after we missed out on Knight, Joseph and Selby, Daniels committed after never visiting campus I guess you could say we beat out Kansas for him, Villanueva committed after Self left Illinois for Kansas, El-Amin verballed to Minnesota but Calhoun convinced him to come visit, Boatright picked us after giving a verbal to West Virginia and being recruited over the next day. We've lost so many recruiting battles and settled for guys that turned out much better than the guys we missed out on. Pretty much our entire huge 2006 class is guys we got after all of our first options chose North Carolina.
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No we're going to lose some recruiting battles. Almost all of those guys you named were top 50 guys, some of them even top 20. That's not exactly "off the boards".
Fishy
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I have no idea why Wayne Turner* or another of the subsequent all-americans presented as evidence of UConn dipping down into the talent pool is even remotely relevant to the current UConn staff.
Mack and Clarke are the kind of kids that Calhoun would typically nail. Make a run at the elite group and then grab one from the very-good group if that didn't work out - that's where we're at now. We'll see if it becomes that automatic for Kevin - he's spent a hell of a lot of time on Mack and if it doesn't work out, it's a bad beat. Plan C is a tougher run against Dave Rice and Bruce Pearlman and potentially Bill Self for Derrick Jones.
Long-story made short - don't make a habit of losing players to mid-majors.
(* It's meaningless, but holy crap, you could not come up with a worse example than Wayne Turner. He went to three straight title games and won two championships while the kid we got instead, Dion Carson, kinda played well in an NIT game against Nebraska once.)
Mack and Clarke are the kind of kids that Calhoun would typically nail. Make a run at the elite group and then grab one from the very-good group if that didn't work out - that's where we're at now. We'll see if it becomes that automatic for Kevin - he's spent a hell of a lot of time on Mack and if it doesn't work out, it's a bad beat. Plan C is a tougher run against Dave Rice and Bruce Pearlman and potentially Bill Self for Derrick Jones.
Long-story made short - don't make a habit of losing players to mid-majors.
(* It's meaningless, but holy crap, you could not come up with a worse example than Wayne Turner. He went to three straight title games and won two championships while the kid we got instead, Dion Carson, kinda played well in an NIT game against Nebraska once.)
Meh Larrier was UConns third target at SF after Hamilton and Robinson. If there was a loss it was Robinson because UConn was on him much earlier. Larrier was UConn trying to crash the VCU party very late in the recruitment. Much later than UConn got on Mack even. I think UConn would have had a better shot if Hamilton wasn't committed (wait he's transferring to UCLA). Selling Larrier and Robinson as being stretch fours before Daniels really showed the country what Ollie would do with a stretch four was a tough sell.
I would still take Hamilton over either Robinson or Larrier. That's not even taking into account the possibility of Daniels staying (at the time it wasn't clear).
Mack is an interesting case bc UConn has really jumped around when it comes to SG/SFs. Basically Ali fd UConn by decommitting and Ollie seems to be scrambling a bit after thinking the two was locked down. Jones, Clarke, Mack, Briscoe (he fit into the SG/SF recruitment puzzle somewhere at one point). VCU insiders insist UConn hasn't even offered a committable offer. If that were the case one could easily presume Ollie wants final word from Briscoe first before taking Macks commitment and Mack is pushing his announcement because of that...not that I know anything.
I would still take Hamilton over either Robinson or Larrier. That's not even taking into account the possibility of Daniels staying (at the time it wasn't clear).
Mack is an interesting case bc UConn has really jumped around when it comes to SG/SFs. Basically Ali fd UConn by decommitting and Ollie seems to be scrambling a bit after thinking the two was locked down. Jones, Clarke, Mack, Briscoe (he fit into the SG/SF recruitment puzzle somewhere at one point). VCU insiders insist UConn hasn't even offered a committable offer. If that were the case one could easily presume Ollie wants final word from Briscoe first before taking Macks commitment and Mack is pushing his announcement because of that...not that I know anything.
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If it's true that it's between UConn and VCU and that he hadn't made his decision as of last night, I like our chances.
SportsTalk @sportstalksc 12h12 hours ago
#STRecruiting: 6-5 Tevin Mack of Dreher will announce a decision Thursday at noon at his gym. As of tonight he has not made his decision.
Also noted that he's fond of Bible quotes, fwiw. I don't know about Smart, but obviously religion is very important to KO.
SportsTalk @sportstalksc 12h12 hours ago
#STRecruiting: 6-5 Tevin Mack of Dreher will announce a decision Thursday at noon at his gym. As of tonight he has not made his decision.
Also noted that he's fond of Bible quotes, fwiw. I don't know about Smart, but obviously religion is very important to KO.
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I too am absolutely shaking my head at losing kids to VCU.
Come'on!!!! Ridiculous.
Jeremy Lamb had the right idea. Makes no sense for these kids to stack at the position at a midmajor with very little exposure on TV.
It could be cultural for Mack, but Larrier was from NYC.
I have to say, I was much more sold on Larrier as a player than Mack, so I won't be shaking my head on this as much as I did last year with Larrier. I really liked that kid's game. Mack I am not as thrilled about.
And we do have Hamilton and Purvis for maybe 2 more seasons. After that, we'll need a bigtime frosh to step in. Lucky we're recruiting VJ King nd Mario Kegler, both of whom look fantastic.
Come'on!!!! Ridiculous.
Jeremy Lamb had the right idea. Makes no sense for these kids to stack at the position at a midmajor with very little exposure on TV.
It could be cultural for Mack, but Larrier was from NYC.
I have to say, I was much more sold on Larrier as a player than Mack, so I won't be shaking my head on this as much as I did last year with Larrier. I really liked that kid's game. Mack I am not as thrilled about.
And we do have Hamilton and Purvis for maybe 2 more seasons. After that, we'll need a bigtime frosh to step in. Lucky we're recruiting VJ King nd Mario Kegler, both of whom look fantastic.
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Not sure why people have such a hard time realizing that even though we didn't win championships with all top 10 players, the majority of the major players were top 50-60 guys (off the boards?). That's why losing top 50/60 guys (players we won championships with) to mid-major and crappy major programs is an issue. There is this misconception that JC was pulling all this talent out of thin air. There was a whole thing this summer about how Travis Knight, Adrien, and Freeman were not top recruits. All were in the top 40 at one point. Hell Antric Klaiber was a top 50 player.
Also, we all love KO, but he needs to bring in a top, top player (Stone) before we can even remotely consider making comparisons to other "top" recruiters. I think there are two threads here about how KO is the next Cal on the recruiting trail. Getting an in-home with Jabari Parker, having countless players "love him," and being a finalist for others does not equate to being compared to (unfortunately) the best recruiter college basketball has seen since the UCLA days. Adams and Enoch are both excellent prospects, but we need to start locking up those plan B guys. Of course this whole thing becomes moot if Mack and Stone pledge.
Just to illustrate our championship squads. Not all top 10 guys, but each one rolled with 2 or 3 top 50 guys.
1999:
pg: Khalid (McD AA)
pg/2g: Ricky (top 50)
sf: Rip (McD AA)
pf: KFree (top 50/60)
c: Jake (top 125)
Rash (top 50), Mouring (top 50), Saunders (top 50), Souley (?)
2004:
pg: Taliek (McD AA)
2g: Ben (top 40)
sf: Denham (top 50)
pf: Boone (top 125)
c: Okafor (top 100)
Charlie V (McD AA), Rashad (top 50), Hilton (top 250)
2011:
pg: Kemba (McD AA)
2g: JLamb (top 60)
sf: Roscoe (top 50)
pf: AO (top 20)
c: TO (top 200?)
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel (top 50), Giff (?), Shabazz (top 80)
2014:
pg: Shabazz (top 80)
pg/2g: Boat (top 60)
sf: Giff (?)
pf: DD (top 15)
c: Nolan (top 200)
Amida (?), Samuel (top 150), Kromah (?)
Also, we all love KO, but he needs to bring in a top, top player (Stone) before we can even remotely consider making comparisons to other "top" recruiters. I think there are two threads here about how KO is the next Cal on the recruiting trail. Getting an in-home with Jabari Parker, having countless players "love him," and being a finalist for others does not equate to being compared to (unfortunately) the best recruiter college basketball has seen since the UCLA days. Adams and Enoch are both excellent prospects, but we need to start locking up those plan B guys. Of course this whole thing becomes moot if Mack and Stone pledge.
Just to illustrate our championship squads. Not all top 10 guys, but each one rolled with 2 or 3 top 50 guys.
1999:
pg: Khalid (McD AA)
pg/2g: Ricky (top 50)
sf: Rip (McD AA)
pf: KFree (top 50/60)
c: Jake (top 125)
Rash (top 50), Mouring (top 50), Saunders (top 50), Souley (?)
2004:
pg: Taliek (McD AA)
2g: Ben (top 40)
sf: Denham (top 50)
pf: Boone (top 125)
c: Okafor (top 100)
Charlie V (McD AA), Rashad (top 50), Hilton (top 250)
2011:
pg: Kemba (McD AA)
2g: JLamb (top 60)
sf: Roscoe (top 50)
pf: AO (top 20)
c: TO (top 200?)
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel (top 50), Giff (?), Shabazz (top 80)
2014:
pg: Shabazz (top 80)
pg/2g: Boat (top 60)
sf: Giff (?)
pf: DD (top 15)
c: Nolan (top 200)
Amida (?), Samuel (top 150), Kromah (?)
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Boone was in the 50s, I believe, not top 125. Shabazz was barely in the top 100, not top 80. Lamb was in the 70s, not top 60. I think Boat was top 40, too. I suppose that doesn't change the point, which is that we haven't won big without at least some highly-touted recruits.
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'Bazz was ranked #39 at one point in the class of 2011. Definitely not "barely top 100" even with a reclassification... http://www.newenglandrecruitingrepo.../Scoutcom-Announces-New-National-Rankings.php
With Boone it really depends where you look. One place had him at 54, another at 95, another at 124. Regardless, he was not some nobody.
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Jesus, Olander was top-70 at one point?
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I definitely don't remember seeing him that high. If my memory serves me correctly, he was not ranked in his class.
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Yup. I just don't understand it. Recruiting is a grind every single year at Uconn (lately anyway). But yet we still act surprised by it and we still overreact to it.
I think the old adage is you can't judge a recruiting class until you see what they do in college. Well what's a hundred times worse is calling a recruiting class a "failure" or "underachievement" in November when none of us have any idea who will actually join Adams and Enoch in this class when all is said and done. It would be great to be done with the class in November and it sure would make Ollie's job easier, but you don't get extra points for being done early.
Out of the top seven guys in our rotation last year (Napier, Boatright, Giffey, Daniels, Brimah, Kromah, and Nolan), a whopping one was a November signee for Uconn and even he had to decommit from WVU before ending up with us. The other six guys were a reclassification (Napier), an international guy (Giffey), two guys who committed late completely out of the blue (Daniels and Nolan), a guy who chose us over Florida International (Brimah), and a 5th year transfer (Kromah). We turned that scrap heap into a national championship rotation and we added Sam Cassell and Rodney Purvis in similar, non-traditional fashion. And here we are sitting on at least two top-60 players who are about to sign LOIs, but yet all we can talk about is how "troublesome" our recruiting is.
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