Tennessee basketball, 2023 part I | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Tennessee basketball, 2023 part I

Ladeeeeda said:
I think Tenn is going to continue to struggle with recruitsunless they increase NIL deals. If other SEC schools (LSU, SC) offer more money, what is the draw for going to UT? Coach Harper isn't involved with USA, she hasn't had a huge amount of success in coaching (and she has been at it for 20 yrs), and UT isn't an elite academic school. UT has lost out because other schools have one or more of these advantages.
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How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.
 
visitingcock said:
How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.
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The post didn't say they offered more money. They said IF the other SEC schools offer more money, Tennessee is at a disadvantage. They also said they are at a disadvantage to LSU and Carolina have a huge advantage in coaching experience and reputation and academics. The only advantage Tennessee can offer is more NIL money.


I still think Kara Lawson is a perfect fit for Tennessee and no doubt in my mind she would bring them back into the National conversation again and quickly.
 
VA Huskie said:
Anyone have an opinion on Kellie’s problems? Why can’t she recruit (particularly when coaching such a storied program)? Is she a poor game coach? Do players not work hard for her? What’s up??
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Great question. I think in terms of recruiting, it was tough for the 2023 year because of the remaining players. I believe I read somewhere that Tennessee scaled back their recruiting because of the status of Horston, Jackson, and Key (WNBA draft or stay for the Covid year). They had roughly eight players that they were looking at and made the calculated move of only looking at four players. If those three ladies decide to move on to the WNBA, Coach Harper and her coaching staff still have a slim option with recruits, or they will go into the transfer portal. I am sure her coaching staff has several candidates in mind. As for the other stuff, who knows.
 
visitingcock said:
How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.
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I know that "LSU" (in quotes bc technically it isn't LSU, it's a collective) offered way more to recruits than Tenn did. Both LSU and SC can help an athlete get more deals bc they provide better exposure through either the coaches name and/or the schools recent success. Jolly doesn't bring any of those things to the table and if you don't have anything going for you, then the only thing you have left to fall back on is money.
 
I think its a mistake to fire Coach Harper. Wen you guys got rid of Coach Fulmer-it resulted in about 20yrs of futility until coach Heupel this year. Just stick to the plan and give her the support she needs. You guys are mad at recruiting. Well in WBB -its all abut the relationships. I believe your staff is focused on forging relationships in 2024 & 2025 because the bad plan in recruiting ids ineffective for 2022 & 2023. So she has adjusted your plan.
 
Ladeeeeda said:
I know that "LSU" (in quotes bc technically it isn't LSU, it's a collective) offered way more to recruits than Tenn did. Both LSU and SC can help an athlete get more deals bc they provide better exposure through either the coaches name and/or the schools recent success. Jolly doesn't bring any of those things to the table and if you don't have anything going for you, then the only thing you have left to fall back on is money.
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"Harper" Jolly is not her legal name anymore..
 
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Ladeeeeda said:
I think Tenn is going to continue to struggle with recruitsunless they increase NIL deals. If other SEC schools (LSU, SC) offer more money, what is the draw for going to UT? Coach Harper isn't involved with USA, she hasn't had a huge amount of success in coaching (and she has been at it for 20 yrs), and UT isn't an elite academic school. UT has lost out because other schools have one or more of these advantages.
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Not the problem. In my opinion. Coach Harper is adjusting your recruiting strategy on the fly-focusing on future years to develop that relationship with players much earlier. Under Coach summit/Warlick-you guys use to offer late like UConn does. Around a players junior year. Now she is offering kids that are rising freshmen.
 
Ladeeeeda said:
I know that "LSU" (in quotes bc technically it isn't LSU, it's a collective) offered way more to recruits than Tenn did. Both LSU and SC can help an athlete get more deals bc they provide better exposure through either the coaches name and/or the schools recent success. Jolly doesn't bring any of those things to the table and if you don't have anything going for you, then the only thing you have left to fall back on is money.
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Surprising a school and program like TN doesn’t have organizations locally that can participate in that.

In LSUs case, I know Kim partnered with many local businesses and organizations where the entire team and walk ons get the exact same NIL benefits. It’s for the team collectively and everyone is treated the same. Of course people like Flaujae and Reese get their own deals and opportunities but it’s to be expected your better/more popular players will get those bigger deals

SC does the same. Dawn works hard to get deals for her entire team as well. Obviously with that success comes more opportunities as well
 
Creature said:
I think its a mistake to fire Coach Harper. Wen you guys got rid of Coach Fulmer-it resulted in about 20yrs of futility until coach Heupel this year. Just stick to the plan and give her the support she needs. You guys are mad at recruiting. Well in WBB -its all abut the relationships. I believe your staff is focused on forging relationships in 2024 & 2025 because the bad plan in recruiting ids ineffective for 2022 & 2023. So she has adjusted your plan.
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I don't think Tenn should fire her either unless they find a proven, viable options and I don't think there is one right now.

Creature said:
"Harper" Jolly is not her legal name anymore..
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You mean Harper is the name she prefers/has chosen to use? Legality of the name doesn't matter...
 
hoopsnloops32 said:
The post didn't say they offered more money. They said IF the other SEC schools offer more money, Tennessee is at a disadvantage. They also said they are at a disadvantage to LSU and Carolina have a huge advantage in coaching experience and reputation and academics. The only advantage Tennessee can offer is more NIL money.


I still think Kara Lawson is a perfect fit for Tennessee and no doubt in my mind she would bring them back into the National conversation again and quickly.
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Tennessee had their shot at Lawson and I believe burned bridges with Kara. I recall her making a comment on the lack of diversity in UT's athletic department or something to that effect. I think Tennessee would have to throw a lot of money her way (significantly more than they're paying Harper) to pull her over, and in the past the program hasn't shown a willingness to do so. Kara is doing an incredible job at Duke so far and has the program positioned to become a potential powerhouse with 3 top 30 recruits on board next year, including #3 overall. I don't know who they're involved with for 2024, but there are 3 kids in the top 11 who are from NC.

Duke also offers a unique ability to offer a world class education while not being restricted to the stringent admission requirements that you see at Stanford, and they're first and foremost a basketball school and have the resources/history/facilities to compete with much larger institutions. It's a win all around from a recruiting perspective. Tennessee has the history/resources/fan base, but playing for Tennessee doesn't carry the same allure that it used to. It's been 15 years since they were in the Final Four and over a decade since Summitt was the head coach. It's not the program it was, and as a result it's going to have the same inherent advantages it did during its heyday. I don't see Tennessee as an upgrade for Kara aside from the fact that she played there and loved her time at the university.
 
hoopsnloops32 said:
I still think Kara Lawson is a perfect fit for Tennessee and no doubt in my mind she would bring them back into the National conversation again and quickly.
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To paraphrase the esteemed rapper Blacc Youngsta, Why would she switch out a dime for a penny? Woo woo

Edit.. If you are over the age of 30.. Don't google the lytics or video. :cool:
 
looks like tenn is enjoying first time we have lost 2 consecutive games in 30 yrs glad its program is doing so well over there congrats Huskies on exemplary team , coaching, and class winners leaders and great examples in every way
 
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bballnut90 said:
Duke also offers a unique ability to offer a world class education while not being restricted to the stringent admission requirements that you see at Stanford, and they're first and foremost a basketball school and have the resources/history/facilities to compete with much larger institutions. It's a win all around from a recruiting perspective. Tennessee has the history/resources/fan base, but playing for Tennessee doesn't carry the same allure that it used to. It's been 15 years since they were in the Final Four and over a decade since Summitt was the head coach. It's not the program it was, and as a result it's going to have the same inherent advantages it did during its heyday. I don't see Tennessee as an upgrade for Kara aside from the fact that she played there and loved her time at the university.
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Only obvious superiority would be the fan support. Thanks to @DefenseBB pointing out some glaring numbers in the attendance thread....
 
visitingcock said:
How do you know that LSU and SCar "offer more money?" SCar has been open that they offer $25,000. That's per player and is a minimum and maximum share of team nerchandise sales, etc.. The 13th player on the bench gets the same as Boston through the school's NIL profit sharing. Now, Boston can have as many individual deals as her agent can get her that is not connected to the University. The school has nothing to do with her Nike deal, or Bose deal, etc.

I bet UT offers about the same $25,000 minimum but they aren't transparent about what they are doing. UT players are getting NIL dollars but nobody knows how much. Do you think Rickea goes there for nothing.
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Rickea posted pics of her ride early in the wbb season and it looked like a sweet ride. I'm sure that is just one of many NIL deals she has.
 
I keep waiting for Tenn is turn it around but it may be too late this year. Harper overscheduled and it hurt the team. LSU underscheduled and received more criticism for this but the over scheduling is no better.
 
VA Huskie said:
Anyone have an opinion on Kellie’s problems? Why can’t she recruit (particularly when coaching such a storied program)? Is she a poor game coach? Do players not work hard for her? What’s up??
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All of the above. My opinion is they recruited (signed) the wrong type of player and don’t have a strong demanding coach. That’s a mix that will never work. The inmate run the asylum. I think a stronger coach would make them just a little better or at least teach them team basketball.
Time to throw the baby out with the bath water and star fresh. Call Megan Duffy and let her build. Get out of the shadow of Pat. Don’t forget Pat but let a new regime start. @amb3096 take this to Volnation for opinions
 
Mdoggie said:
All of the above. My opinion is they recruited (signed) the wrong type of player and don’t have a strong demanding coach. That’s a mix that will never work. The inmate run the asylum. I think a stronger coach would make them just a little better or at least teach them team basketball.
Time to throw the baby out with the bath water and star fresh. Call Megan Duffy and let her build. Get out of the shadow of Pat. Don’t forget Pat but let a new regime start. @amb3096 take this to Volnation for opinions
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Maybe that's kind of the problem in UT hiring new WBB coaches. You identified Megan Duffy as an outside the Summit tree hire. However, if you look at the SEC behind Staley and Mulkey-Coach Yo is the other best coach in the SEC. Why would Vol Nation not target her-Ole Miss is not going to match the salary.
 
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triaddukefan said:
To paraphrase the esteemed rapper Blacc Youngsta, Why would she switch out a dime for a penny? Woo woo

Edit.. If you are over the age of 30.. Don't google the lytics or video. :cool:
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Rat Snitch the whole lot of them
 
Creature said:
Maybe that's kind of the problem in UT hiring new WBB coaches. You identified Megan Duffy as an outside the Summit tree hire. However, if you look at the SEC behind Staley and Mulkey-Coach Yo is the other best coach in the SEC. Why would Vol Nation not target her-Ole Miss is not going to match the salary.
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Ole Miss has really impressed me. Far better than I imagine since they lost Austin. I think it’s more cohesive team this year that really gets after it defensively.
 
Creature said:
Maybe that's kind of the problem in UT hiring new WBB coaches. You identified Megan Duffy as an outside the Summit tree hire. However, if you look at the SEC behind Staley and Mulkey-Coach Yo is the other best coach in the SEC. Why would Vol Nation not target her-Ole Miss is not going to match the salary.
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Coach Yo has some good qualities but I'm honestly not sure if she's a great coach or just a good motivator. Ole Miss isn't a bad team but is far from a good one. I'd say Neighbors is better too.

Harper will be at UT for at least one more year. It may not go beyond that but she will be there next season.
 
Creature said:
Maybe that's kind of the problem in UT hiring new WBB coaches. You identified Megan Duffy as an outside the Summit tree hire. However, if you look at the SEC behind Staley and Mulkey-Coach Yo is the other best coach in the SEC. Why would Vol Nation not target her-Ole Miss is not going to match the salary.
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You think Marquette would match the Salary? Tennessee needs a total fresh start and that could mean a hire not from the SEC. I just really like what I see in Duffy and the way her players play for her. The Tennessee brand and Duffy coaching could start that new regime that is so desperately needed. I doubt Duffy would’ve recruited any of the athletes on Tennessee roster now. Note I said athletes. I don’t see too many team ball players on that roster or high basketball IQs. JMO.
 
MSSportsGuy said:
Coach Yo has some good qualities but I'm honestly not sure if she's a great coach or just a good motivator. Ole Miss isn't a bad team but is far from a good one. I'd say Neighbors is better too.

Harper will be at UT for at least one more year. It may not go beyond that but she will be there next season.
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You’re probably right on Harper and next season will be UGLY for them. But don’t worry they will blame Geno, Dawn, God, Kim, Angela Reese, DT, Sophia Cunningham and the baby. Lol
 
SECbbfan24 said:
Ole Miss has really impressed me. Far better than I imagine since they lost Austin. I think it’s more cohesive team this year that really gets after it defensively.
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The league is just so down. It's hard to judge anyone.
 
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MSSportsGuy said:
Coach Yo has some good qualities but I'm honestly not sure if she's a great coach or just a good motivator. Ole Miss isn't a bad team but is far from a good one. I'd say Neighbors is better too.

Harper will be at UT for at least one more year. It may not go beyond that but she will be there next season.
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Neighbors? As in Arkansas? The guy all but admits that defense is rarely on his mind. Or even something he understands.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
Neighbors? As in Arkansas? The guy all but admits that defense is rarely on his mind. Or even something he understands.
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Neighbors has been to a FF and while his Arkansas team is far from great, I trust that pedigree more than a coach who hasn't won a tournament game before.

Ole Miss basically plays a "in your face" style that relies on turning people over and scoring in the full court game or one on one. They don't execute well in the half court at all. Coach Yo seems like a decent person and seems to have players who like her but I am not ready to call her a good coach.
 
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MSSportsGuy said:
Neighbors has been to a FF and while his Arkansas team is far from great, I trust that pedigree more than a coach who hasn't won a tournament game before.

Ole Miss basically plays a "in your face" style that relies on turing people over and scoring in the full court game or one on one. They don't execute well in the half court at all. Coach Yo seems like a decent person and seems to have players who like her but I am not ready to call her a good coach.
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Neighbors isn't a bad coach. I just don't see him as great. He's very creative offensively and when he was at Washington and now Arkansas that was obvious. His instinct for winning is first and foremost to outscore the opponent and get up a lot of shot attempts with a fast-paced transition game. He's had some great offensive weapons reach the WNBA (Plum, Slocum, Dungee, Osahor) and they all had a common struggle...defense. Plum put in the work and is a star, but her transition wasn't without bumps. But, back to TN. IMO, going back to Holly and up until now, they have had the talent and I thought they would be better. Do they need a coaching change? I have no idea. But, I will say this. If they go that route, they and other schools, need to drop the ridiculous concept that an alum is necessarily the best fit. Not saying that isn't the case in any particular situation, but it just limits the candidates.
 
LwrcasefaN said:
Neighbors isn't a bad coach. I just don't see him as great. He's very creative offensively and when he was at Washington and now Arkansas that was obvious. His instinct for winning is first and foremost to outscore the opponent and get up a lot of shot attempts with a fast-paced transition game. He's had some great offensive weapons reach the WNBA (Plum, Slocum, Dungee, Osahor) and they all had a common struggle...defense. Plum put in the work and is a star, but her transition wasn't without bumps. But, back to TN. IMO, going back to Holly and up until now, they have had the talent and I thought they would be better. Do they need a coaching change? I have no idea. But, I will say this. If they go that route, they and other schools, need to drop the ridiculous concept that an alum is necessarily the best fit. Not saying that isn't the case in any particular situation, but it just limits the candidates.
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I don't think he's great either but my original response to the post was to someone who believed Coach Yo was the next good one in the SEC after Dawn and Kim. I said I believed Neighbors is better than Yo and stand by that.

I too thought Harper would be better than she's shown. I wouldn't say she's been bad but the roster they have should be better than this, just how Holly was her final few years. Holly was the natural successor for Pat given the circumstances. When Holly was removed from the post the university either couldn't or wasn't willing to open their wallet for a big name so Harper was a logical and I will just say "safe" choice.

I'd say the fanbase now, even the old school Pat loyalists, would be accepting of any candidate regardless of gender or prior affiliation. Whether the AD and university agrees is a different story.
 
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