Taking a look back at the HoopGurlz 2016 Recruiting Class Rankings

[bballnut90]

But my initial question was how are you basing them as better players if it’s not about assists or any other categories? Need I remind you neither Slocum or Sutton has ever been to an EE and neither has a conference championship(unless you count Slocum’s freshman season at Maryland). Ty has multiple including a national championship. Also Sutton doesn’t have better career numbers scoring, defensive, or passing wise. I’m not bashing either player but it’s hard for me to determine either as better players. Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I thought you would bring some facts behind your statement.

SC's success during Harris's tenure is primarily due to having A'ja Wilson on the roster. Wilson leaves and SC drops out of the top 10 and is a 4 seed. Harris is a fine PG but cant put a team on her back and carry her team to victory. Slocum and Sutton can. Theyre better basketball players regardless of team success or not.

If the question was who has had the most well rounded college career, then I'd put Harris above Sutton and maybe Slocum since the championship and career numbers carry merit (and Slocum has only played 2 years), but in terms of who is the best PG headed into next year, Harris is not top 3 in my book.

 

[SCspur]

SC's success during Harris's tenure is primarily due to having A'ja Wilson on the roster. Wilson leaves and SC drops out of the top 10 and is a 4 seed. Harris is a fine PG but cant put a team on her back and carry her team to victory. Slocum and Sutton can. Theyre better basketball players regardless of team success or not.

If the question was who has had the most well rounded college career, then I'd put Harris above Sutton and maybe Slocum since the championship and career numbers carry merit (and Slocum has only played 2 years), but in terms of who is the best PG headed into next year, Harris is not top 3 in my book.

Like I said opinions vary and I’m glad your book isn’t a real on because I highly doubt any PG would be able to have a success rate without any drop off after a player like A’ja Wilson leaves their side. But since you made that argument, Texas went from a 2 seed to a 7 seed after McCarty and Atkins left and a first round exit in the NCAA but Sutton can lead a team better than Harris? If your going to make statements like that just make sure you have some facts to back them up like I’m providing. It’s ok if you can’t except the fact that Harris has had a better career so far (I will give Slocum the benefit of the doubt because she sat a year). Like I said I’m biased but Harris game speaks for itself or she wouldn’t have made the Pan Am team over the same PGs you mentioned.....

 

[CocoHusky]

SC's success during Harris's tenure is primarily due to having A'ja Wilson on the roster. Wilson leaves and SC drops out of the top 10 and is a 4 seed. Harris is a fine PG but cant put a team on her back and carry her team to victory. Slocum and Sutton can. Theyre better basketball players regardless of team success or not.
If the question was who has had the most well rounded college career, then I'd put Harris above Sutton and maybe Slocum since the championship and career numbers carry merit (and Slocum has only played 2 years), but in terms of who is the best PG headed into next year, Harris is not top 3 in my book.

Not sure why A'Ja Wilson's name would come up when discussing the 2016 Hoopgurlz class. Also don't know why people keep sleeping on Ty Harris. She did pretty well for USA basketball playing alongside her HS peers including Crystal Dangerfield.
Ty Harris - All-Star Five - FIBA U19 Women’s Basketball World Cup 2017 - FIBA.basketball

 

[bballnut90]

Like I said opinions vary and I’m glad your book isn’t a real on because I highly doubt any PG would be able to have a success rate without any drop off after a player like A’ja Wilson leaves their side. But since you made that argument, Texas went from a 2 seed to a 7 seed after McCarty and Atkins left and a first round exit in the NCAA but Sutton can lead a team better than Harris? If your going to make statements like that just make sure you have some facts to back them up like I’m providing. It’s ok if you can’t except the fact that Harris has had a better career so far (I will give Slocum the benefit of the doubt because she sat a year). Like I said I’m biased but Harris game speaks for itself or she wouldn’t have made the Pan Am team over the same PGs you mentioned.....

She's had a better career thus far than Sutton but I don't think she's the better player headed into this season. Sutton appears to be a late bloomer since she was seldom used her first 2 years behind McCarty but was a bright spot in an otherwise dark year for Texas. She's a more well rounded player than Harris IMO. Comparing SC's team success last year to Texas's is irrelevant IMO when analyzing Harris vs. Sutton. Feel free to disagree.

 

[bballnut90]

Not sure why A'Ja Wilson's name would come up when discussing the 2016 Hoopgurlz class. Also don't know why people keep sleeping on Ty Harris. She did pretty well for USA basketball playing alongside her HS peers including Crystal Dangerfield.
Ty Harris - All-Star Five - FIBA U19 Women’s Basketball World Cup 2017 - FIBA.basketball

SCSpur was pointing out how Harris has won a championship and a conference championship. I was pointing out that Wilson was the biggest reason for that team success rather than Harris. She was certainly a contributor and an important piece but I don't think her winning a title as a freshman makes her a better player than someone who didnt.

 

[SCspur]

Not sure why A'Ja Wilson's name would come up when discussing the 2016 Hoopgurlz class. Also don't know why people keep sleeping on Ty Harris. She did pretty well for USA basketball playing alongside her HS peers including Crystal Dangerfield.
Ty Harris - All-Star Five - FIBA U19 Women’s Basketball World Cup 2017 - FIBA.basketball

Agreed. I was just disputing with @bballnut90 that Harris was underrated out of high school and can be considered a top 3 PG behind Dangerfield and Mangakahia (Ionescu is a SG imo) but in digress the poster believes Sutton and Slocum are better. I usually value his or hers opinions because it always come with facts and details but in this particular moment none was displayed. This season will actually tell who is better I guess. Back to the main topic

 

[SCspur]

She's had a better career thus far than Sutton but I don't think she's the better player headed into this season. Sutton appears to be a late bloomer since she was seldom used her first 2 years behind McCarty but was a bright spot in an otherwise dark year for Texas. She's a more well rounded player than Harris IMO. Comparing SC's team success last year to Texas's is irrelevant IMO when analyzing Harris vs. Sutton. Feel free to disagree.

She was rated top 6 in the class and the second best pg I wouldn’t call her a late bloomer. We can agree to disagree. This season will tell us a lot about all three players. Until then I’ll have fun watching Harris participate in the Pan Am games that Slocum and Sutton didn’t make.

 

[Plebe]

She was rated top 6 in the class and the second best pg I wouldn’t call her a late bloomer. We can agree to disagree. This season will tell us a lot about all three players. Until then I’ll have fun watching Harris participate in the Pan Am games that Slocum and Sutton didn’t make.

2018-19 stats:
Player A: 15.4 ppg, 45.6% FG, 3.4 rpg, 4.5 apg, AP All-American Honorable Mention
Player B: 12.7 ppg, 47.5% FG, 5.4 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1st Team all-conference
Player C: 10.9 ppg, 39.8% FG, 3.5 rpg, 5.3 apg, 2nd Team all-conference

Is this not factual enough for you?

 

[NWHoopFan2]

As we get closer to the 2016 class beginning their senior season, I'll take a stab at 5 overrated prospects and 11 underrated 2016 prospects (Link to the rankings: 2016 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN)

11 Underrated Prospects:
- Sabrina Ionescu
- Ruthy Hebard
- Bella Alarie
- Mikiah Herbert-Harrigan
- Chelsea Dungee
- Aari McDonald
- Amber Smith
- Kathleen Doyle
- Kat Tudor
- Erika Ogwumike
- Brittany Brewer

5 Overrated Prospects:
- Erin Boley
- Sierra Campisano
- Valerie Higgins
- Natalie Chou
- A'Tyanna Gaulden

I left Joyner Holmes off, but she could very easily be added.

The overrated is a little bit harder, all 5 of my selections have transferred, but I just felt they haven't really lived up to their hype. Some of them are solid role players though.

How can someone rated #4 be underrated?

 

[DallasBUFan]

She was rated top 6 in the class and the second best pg I wouldn’t call her a late bloomer. We can agree to disagree. This season will tell us a lot about all three players. Until then I’ll have fun watching Harris participate in the Pan Am games that Slocum and Sutton didn’t make.

Sutton actually had less assist last year and averaged less assist last season. She also had less assist than Sutton, Ionescue, Dangerfield, Goth, Holmes, Cole, and Tiana. So if she isn't a scoring PG and you're selling her on assist and dissing Sutton, but she averaged more ppg and had more total assist. Not saying Ty isn't good, but I don't think a top 3. Top 10 PG yes.

 

[SCspur]

Sutton actually had less assist last year and averaged less assist last season. She also had less assist than Sutton, Ionescue, Dangerfield, Goth, Holmes, Cole, and Tiana. So if she isn't a scoring PG and you're selling her on assist and dissing Sutton, but she averaged more ppg and had more total assist. Not saying Ty isn't good, but I don't think a top 3. Top 10 PG yes.

I can agree on that.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Ionescu is the gem of the class for sure and Cox showed herself to be an outstanding glue player for Baylor. Her basketball IQ is very high. Dangerfield has been a great fit at UConn. Holmes injuries and suspension slowed her down but she showed flashes of excellence during her freshman year. Hopefully she recovers.

As has become the norm there are several transfers in the group. Boley's role at Oregon last year appeared to be pop out 3 point shooter and she did that job well. I hope McCoy's health is restored and she can live a full and productive life. I admit I've not watched Slocum at OSU but know she is a talented player.

I think we can all agree Hebard was underrated, which could be a byproduct of the fact she attended high school in Alaska. Dungee lit up the SEC tournament last year for Arkansas and showed she's a force herself.

We all know recruiting isn't an exact science and there will always be hits and misses. There is truly no way to know what's going on in the lives of 18 to 22 year old kids. Some programs and coaches are great fits for some and not others.

 

[KnuckleBuckle]

Sutton actually had less assist last year and averaged less assist last season. She also had less assist than Sutton, Ionescue, Dangerfield, Goth, Holmes, Cole, and Tiana. So if she isn't a scoring PG and you're selling her on assist and dissing Sutton, but she averaged more ppg and had more total assist. Not saying Ty isn't good, but I don't think a top 3. Top 10 PG yes.

I get that Ty ain't flashy or seek attention but you cant hide her impact as a pg. Outside of Ionescue, Ty impact on her team the past 3 years cant be matched. Has there been a pure pg that has been the focal game plan defensively by opponents. She has been forced off the ball by opposing teams to slow down Gamecocks. You put Ty on any of those other teams, except maybe Cuse & Georgia and they would have rings.

 

[SCspur]

I get that Ty ain't flashy or seek attention but you cant hide her impact as a pg. Outside of Ionescue, Ty impact on her team the past 3 years cant be matched. Has there been a pure pg that has been the focal game plan defensively by opponents. She has been forced off the ball by opposing teams to slow down Gamecocks. You put Ty on any of those other teams, except maybe Cuse & Georgia and they would have rings.

Exactly if you really watch her you know it’s far more than the assists or scoring. She reads plays before they even happen and the only PGs who has that type of IQ are Dangerfield and Ionescu imo. She is the SEC active assists leader for a reason. She’s also on the Pan Am team and made it over many of the PGs listed. She’s going to prove a lot of people wrong this year.

 

[PoppaBear]

I get that Ty ain't flashy or seek attention but you cant hide her impact as a pg. Outside of Ionescue, Ty impact on her team the past 3 years cant be matched. Has there been a pure pg that has been the focal game plan defensively by opponents. She has been forced off the ball by opposing teams to slow down Gamecocks. You put Ty on any of those other teams, except maybe Cuse & Georgia and they would have rings.

Not sure if there is a question there but I would say Chennedy Carter has been the main focus of every defense she has faced.

 

[DaBball]

Not sure if there is a question there but I would say Chennedy Carter has been the main focus of every defense she has faced.

For sure, but Carter isn't exactly a "true PG". I don't really know why a team would make Tyasha the focal point for their defenses -- just because she has always played with players who scored the ball better than her while she happily took on a distributor role.

Another pure PG who probably would garner more attention on an opponent's defensive game plan is Destiny Slocum. She averaged 15.4 PPG and was their leading scorer and led the team in APG. She had to take a little bit more of a scoring-first approach because OSU didn't have a ton of offensive firepower, but she showed she can be a true PG at Maryland as a freshman.

Perhaps the purest PG in WCBB this year was Jazzmun Holmes at Mississippi State. I think she had the best A/TO ratio in the stat's history (which I believe was relatively short), and led the SEC in APG at 5.6. She actually was superior to Tyasha in FG%, 3FG%, FT%, APG, TOPG, A/TOPG, SPG, but she took way less FGs (309 vs. 234).

 

[Reypl21]

SC fans are giving Harris way too much credit. I think she's good at her role, but she's not a top 3 PG. She's not even a top 3 "pure" PG.

 

[bballnut90]

For sure, but Carter isn't exactly a "true PG". I don't really know why a team would make Tyasha the focal point for their defenses -- just because she has always played with players who scored the ball better than her while she happily took on a distributor role.

Another pure PG who probably would garner more attention on an opponent's defensive game plan is Destiny Slocum. She averaged 15.4 PPG and was their leading scorer and led the team in APG. She had to take a little bit more of a scoring-first approach because OSU didn't have a ton of offensive firepower, but she showed she can be a true PG at Maryland as a freshman.

Perhaps the purest PG in WCBB this year was Jazzmun Holmes at Mississippi State. I think she had the best A/TO ratio in the stat's history (which I believe was relatively short), and led the SEC in APG at 5.6. She actually was superior to Tyasha in FG%, 3FG%, FT%, APG, TOPG, A/TOPG, SPG, but she took way less FGs (309 vs. 234).

Holmes was the best PG in the SEC last year. She never forced the issue and was a great decision maker. Her graduating may be the most difficult piece to replace since Ms St has big bodies to replace McCowan but they dont have an outstanding PG like Holmes waiting in the wings.

 

[SCspur]

SC fans are giving Harris way too much credit. I think she's good at her role, but she's not a top 3 PG. She's not even a top 3 "pure" PG.

Everyone has an opinion they're entitled to....

 

[Reypl21]

Everyone has an opinion they're entitled to....

That's very true. Harris kind of reminds me a little of Lindsey Allen. I understand where you're coming in stating that she has been selected to several USA teams, over other guards. I think her biggest strength is her mental toughness and ability to not get rattled. I remember Allen made a U17 team and started on it, while she beat out other higher ranked PGs.

I think Harris can be a top PG by the end of the season. She has a lot of weapons at her disposal next season. I can see her being a successful pro.

 

[SCspur]

That's very true. Harris kind of reminds me a little of Lindsey Allen. I understand where you're coming in stating that she has been selected to several USA teams, over other guards. I think her biggest strength is her mental toughness and ability to not get rattled. I remember Allen made a U17 team and started on it, while she beat out other higher ranked PGs.

I think Harris can be a top PG by the end of the season. She has a lot of weapons at her disposal next season. I can see her being a successful pro.

She needs to improve her shooting from beyond the arc. That’s the one hole in her game that could hold her back. But other than that I agree with everything you said.

 

[Carnac]

As we get closer to the 2016 class beginning their senior season, I'll take a stab at 5 overrated prospects and 11 underrated 2016 prospects (Link to the rankings: 2016 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN)

11 Underrated Prospects:
- Sabrina Ionescu
- Ruthy Hebard
- Bella Alarie
- Mikiah Herbert-Harrigan
- Chelsea Dungee
- Aari McDonald
- Amber Smith
- Kathleen Doyle
- Kat Tudor
- Erika Ogwumike
- Brittany Brewer

5 Overrated Prospects:
- Erin Boley
- Sierra Campisano
- Valerie Higgins
- Natalie Chou
- A'Tyanna Gaulden

I left Joyner Holmes off, but she could very easily be added.

The overrated is a little bit harder, all 5 of my selections have transferred, but I just felt they haven't really lived up to their hype. Some of them are solid role players though.

DaBall, this is an interesting thread as are the responses you’ve received. I would like to see you do a “look back” on class rankings this time every year. Most of us remember these players and the buzz they created coming out of high school.

I’m sure everyone had a favorite or two. It’s fun to look back at the rankings and see who lived up to their perceived potential; and how close we came in our personal prediction of who would be the brightest stars of the class.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

She needs to improve her shooting from beyond the arc. That’s the one hole in her game that could hold her back. But other than that I agree with everything you said.

She's never quite taken on the scorer role. I think that would be helpful to the team. Hitting threes would be nice whether she did that or not.

I agree that she's one of the best PGs in the country. But her style is a little understated.

 

[mbr33ct]

As we get closer to the 2016 class beginning their senior season, I'll take a stab at 5 overrated prospects and 11 underrated 2016 prospects (Link to the rankings: 2016 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN)

11 Underrated Prospects:
- Sabrina Ionescu
- Ruthy Hebard
- Bella Alarie
- Mikiah Herbert-Harrigan
- Chelsea Dungee
- Aari McDonald
- Amber Smith
- Kathleen Doyle
- Kat Tudor
- Erika Ogwumike
- Brittany Brewer

5 Overrated Prospects:
- Erin Boley
- Sierra Campisano
- Valerie Higgins
- Natalie Chou
- A'Tyanna Gaulden

I left Joyner Holmes off, but she could very easily be added.

The overrated is a little bit harder, all 5 of my selections have transferred, but I just felt they haven't really lived up to their hype. Some of them are solid role players though.

The only comment I would have, not sure if Ionescu was really underrated, according to you? She was ranked #4 in the HoopGurlz behind Dangerfield. Speaking of Dangerfield (at #3) was she placed in the perfect "goldilock zone"...not overrated and not underrated, just right.

 

[mbr33ct]

Lol the SEC was 5th in Massey and we were 6th. SEC had 3 teams in the top 25 and the Big East had 2. Not saying our conference is better, but ummm yours wasn't that great last year.

I would expect the BE to become the #5 RPI conference surpassing the SEC at #6 when UConn joins them in 2020-2021. (I'm nor Carnac but numbers don't lie)