Sunbelt Conference & C-USA

[pnow15]

The P-5 conferences remind me of the movie "A Wonderful Life" when Jimmy Stewart stated the Potter isn't selling he's buying.
The P-5 gains it power by amateurs running athletic programs. There was never any reason for the Big East to dissolve other than nervous college administrators making poor decisions. The same holds true today. The AAC's worst enemy is itself. It's star member, UConn, has pushed the panic button before the first jump ball or kick off. Despite winning two national championships.
The Big 12 is a one trick pony, Texas. Big Ten has Ohio St. Penn St. and a bunch of slum properties in Michigan. ACC has three colleges jammed into a state that can hardly support its NBA team or pro football team. Everyone of these leagues have very weak sisters.
What they do have is panic on our side.
Orlando, Houston, Tampa, CT, Tulsa, Memphis, Philly etc. are populated wealthy spaces so why is it that we should have to crawl to some two bit Iowa town or West Virginia hovel for validation. We need to take care of our business and win. Then it will be the P-6.

 

[John Greene]

The P-5 conferences remind me of the movie "A Wonderful Life" when Jimmy Stewart stated the Potter isn't selling he's buying.
The P-5 gains it power by amateurs running athletic programs. There was never any reason for the Big East to dissolve other than nervous college administrators making poor decisions. The same holds true today. The AAC's worst enemy is itself. It's star member, UConn, has pushed the panic button before the first jump ball or kick off. Despite winning two national championships.
The Big 12 is a one trick pony, Texas. Big Ten has Ohio St. Penn St. and a bunch of slum properties in Michigan. ACC has three colleges jammed into a state that can hardly support its NBA team or pro football team. Everyone of these leagues have very weak sisters.
What they do have is panic on our side.
Orlando, Houston, Tampa, CT, Tulsa, Memphis, Philly etc. are populated wealthy spaces so why is it that we should have to crawl to some two bit Iowa town or West Virginia hovel for validation. We need to take care of our business and win. Then it will be the P-6.

I know it is still early in the year but non the less, I would like to nominate this as the Pollyanna Post of 2015.

 

[Kevin Caliendo]

Basically the basketball fans see the hoops program falling apart over the coming years in the AAC. It is inevitable, UConn, even with Ollie and a NC, cannot recruit with the P5 teams. Ollie will eventually leave, as well. So, the best case in their opinion is to latch onto the Big East, where the regular season games are still relevant and fun and the opponents are somewhat local and rivals.

Meanwhile, there is little hope that football will ever be good or interesting and at this point just holds back having any interest in athletics in the state school. Keep the program in the 1% chance that a P5 conference decides to invite the school, but reality is if it dies, it dies. Just don't let it kill the equity built up in the hoops programs.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The P-5 conferences remind me of the movie "A Wonderful Life" when Jimmy Stewart stated the Potter isn't selling he's buying.
The P-5 gains it power by amateurs running athletic programs. There was never any reason for the Big East to dissolve other than nervous college administrators making poor decisions. The same holds true today. The AAC's worst enemy is itself. It's star member, UConn, has pushed the panic button before the first jump ball or kick off. Despite winning two national championships.
The Big 12 is a one trick pony, Texas. Big Ten has Ohio St. Penn St. and a bunch of slum properties in Michigan. ACC has three colleges jammed into a state that can hardly support its NBA team or pro football team. Everyone of these leagues have very weak sisters.
What they do have is panic on our side.
Orlando, Houston, Tampa, CT, Tulsa, Memphis, Philly etc. are populated wealthy spaces so why is it that we should have to crawl to some two bit Iowa town or West Virginia hovel for validation. We need to take care of our business and win. Then it will be the P-6.

Your observation that the AAC is actually in better market position than other so called P5 conferences is true. But Conferences reflect historically dynamics as well as market and changing the status quo is never easy.
The media has determined that those markets can adequately be reached by existing P5 teams. Why increase their costs. They feel they are over paying now ,which would lends credence to the P4 model not P6.
FSU &U of F, are actually the dominate teams in Central and Northern FLA.
UT,Baylor ,TCU ,and UT do likewise for Texas.
PSU in PA , OSU in Ohio.
Many areas are written off do to small population.
Connecticut is the most populated state lacking a p5 team..
It's actually larger than ,Oklahoma ,Iowa ,Kansas an Mississippi ,each with two P5 teams .
Also Nebraska,West VA, Utah and Arkansas.
One could also claim as a secular public UConn is better capabable of representing New England than a religious private.
For schools not currently in the model administrators have reason for concern as their ability to compete lessens.
You are much more likely to see many more schools dropping football than going to P6 status

 

[CL82]

This is spot on, in my opinion. Yes, our hoops programs are both "struggling" (I put this is quotes because they both just did win national championships, again, last year!) for the sake of going all-in for a P5 invite. It's something that I think is planned by the AD knowing that a P5 invite is truly the only way that UCONN can maintain its elite status in hoops. The money divide is so huge between P5 schools and G5 (including mid-major conferences like the Big East) that the top coaches will only coach in a P5 conference because they'll be able to pay 2x, 3x, 4x or more than any G5/mid-major can pay. Also, the top recruits will only go play at P5 schools because they're able to offer (or will be able to offer soon) them a full cost of attendance package, insurance, and other benefits that the G5/mid-majors simply can't.

In my opinion, the school and state wouldn't have just invested $2B into expanding research if it didn't feel, at the very least, kind of good about its chances for a P5 invite. You just don't invest that kind of money into lost causes and being content with staying at a mid-major Big East level forever. Yes, the research expansion helps the university in other ways not related to CR. But the fact is that it does help our CR profile. Tremendously.

All of this nonsense talk about dropping football or moving it to the C-USA or Sun Belt wouldn't even be mentioned if UCONN had gone to a bowl game(s) in the past few years. If UCONN won 9 games last season and beat BYU in the Miami Bowl, we'd all be talking about how much of a complete package we are for a B1G or ACC invite...not the opposite. But that is my point: look at Memphis. They were God awful in 2013. So awful that our second worst team in program history beat them behind the shed in the last game of '13 by some 30 points or so. In 2014, they won 9 games and beat BYU in an exciting bowl game (except for the hideous brawl afterward). The AAC affords programs the same opportunity. It isn't the SEC. UCONN can turn it around in this conference and, when it does, we will all talk about how much of a complete package UCONN is in CR. We surely won't be talking about dropping football or moving it a level that is below the AAC. And yes, like it or not, the AAC is the best G5 conference to be in to improve our P5 profile.

We're all in this together, taking short-term lumps for long-term gain.

This is why I am hoping that Bobby D. is more than just a talker. We don't have time to rebuild again.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Basically the basketball fans see the hoops program falling apart over the coming years in the AAC. It is inevitable, UConn, even with Ollie and a NC, cannot recruit with the P5 teams. Ollie will eventually leave, as well. So, the best case in their opinion is to latch onto the Big East, where the regular season games are still relevant and fun and the opponents are somewhat local and rivals.

Meanwhile, there is little hope that football will ever be good or interesting and at this point just holds back having any interest in athletics in the state school. Keep the program in the 1% chance that a P5 conference decides to invite the school, but reality is if it dies, it dies. Just don't let it kill the equity built up in the hoops programs.

I think this is wrong on several levels. I think Ollie can still recruit and win in the American. It will be harder. But UConn would have a recruiting advantage over every other non P5 team and most of the P5 teams. Geno will out recruit everyone everywhere as long as he is here.

Meanwhile football can be relevant and competitive very quickly. Probably within the next two seasons. The odds of a P5 invite are probably more like 80% in my opinion, not 1%. But the value of playing a Big East schedule in basketball? That is, as I said, worth maybe 10%. It's not that much better. Temple is back, Memphis is solid, Cinci is solid and Houston has some history to build on. It isn't good, but it isn't much worse than the current Big East.

If the ACC said, come bring all sports except football, and football can come when Notre Dame does....I think you take that deal. For that I'd move football to CUSA if necessary, but the American might let us stay anyway. But for the Big East? You mortgage any chance at a really good future for a very minor upgrade.

 

[Sea Goat]

I think this is wrong on several levels. I think Ollie can still recruit and win in the American. It will be harder. But UConn would have a recruiting advantage over every other non P5 team and most of the P5 teams. Geno will out recruit everyone everywhere as long as he is here.

Meanwhile football can be relevant and competitive very quickly. Probably within the next two seasons. The odds of a P5 invite are probably more like 80% in my opinion, not 1%. But the value of playing a Big East schedule in basketball? That is, as I said, worth maybe 10%. It's not that much better. Temple is back, Memphis is solid, Cinci is solid and Houston has some history to build on. It isn't good, but it isn't much worse than the current Big East.

If the ACC said, come bring all sports except football, and football can come when Notre Dame does....I think you take that deal. For that I'd move football to CUSA if necessary, but the American might let us stay anyway. But for the Big East? You mortgage any chance at a really good future for a very minor upgrade.

the ACC - only if they came with an "all in" offer and we had no other reasonable alternatives do you even contemplate saying yes. I know sometimes you have to swallow your pride, but they just ain't that special. The mere fact that they accepted a half- member in ND is proof enough of that.

 

[Kolumbo]

the ACC - only if they came with an "all in" offer and we had no other reasonable alternatives do you even contemplate saying yes. I know sometimes you have to swallow your pride, but they just ain't that special. The mere fact that they accepted a half- member in ND is proof enough of that.

Right on brother. UCONN is much more valuable than many other P5 programs. The only constant is change and the landscape will continue to change. Be true.

 

[Ldandy]

The P-5 conferences remind me of the movie "A Wonderful Life" when Jimmy Stewart stated the Potter isn't selling he's buying.
The P-5 gains it power by amateurs running athletic programs. There was never any reason for the Big East to dissolve other than nervous college administrators making poor decisions. The same holds true today. The AAC's worst enemy is itself. It's star member, UConn, has pushed the panic button before the first jump ball or kick off. Despite winning two national championships.
The Big 12 is a one trick pony, Texas. Big Ten has Ohio St. Penn St. and a bunch of slum properties in Michigan. ACC has three colleges jammed into a state that can hardly support its NBA team or pro football team. Everyone of these leagues have very weak sisters.
What they do have is panic on our side.
Orlando, Houston, Tampa, CT, Tulsa, Memphis, Philly etc. are populated wealthy spaces so why is it that we should have to crawl to some two bit Iowa town or West Virginia hovel for validation. We need to take care of our business and win. Then it will be the P-6.

I understand that you are trying to put a positive spin on circumstances that as a fan are beyond your control, but you can not honestly believe what you wrote. The AAC's worst enemy is not itself, on the contrary it has experienced success in spite of itself. How can you run down the programs and perception of the Big 12, B1G and ACC, but then proceed to make the argument that The AAC's Markets make it an equal competitor regardless of the programs that comprise it?

The Big 12 is a one trick pony? Seriously? Oklahoma and Kansas do nothing for it? Baylor, TCU, KSU, OSU and WVU have all played in BCS Bowls in the last 3-4 years. Not exactly the barren athletic wasteland you portend.

The B1G is OSU, PSU and then a bunch of slum properties in Michigan? Wut? So much is wrong with that statement I can't even address it further without my brain hurting.

While I agree that The ACC is hamstrung by having 4 schools in one medium sized state, we all know that no one is being kicked out of or voluntarily leaving a P5 Conference in the immediate future. What was the point of bringing the Hornets and Panthers into the discussion? North Carolina was a college basketball hotbed long before the NBA or NFL ever considered coming to town. Much of the state's rooting interest revolves around UNC v. Duke, UNC v. NCSU or gasp NASCAR. That won't change anytime soon. Factor in a large number of Northeastern and Midwestern Transplants, with their allegiances to "hometown" pro franchises, and you have a recipe for lukewarm local pro support.

Orlando, Houston, Tampa, etc, etc. might be populous and wealthy markets, but it doesn't benefit The AAC if there is minimal support for the programs located within. People love to joke about "little brother" schools within the various P5 Conferences, but if you remove UCONN from the discussion, the majority of remaining AAC Programs would be more akin to "sickly cousin" programs. They lag hopelessly behind in resources, facilities, alumni/fan support, recruiting and athletic history. Can programs occasionally break through and achieve big things? Obviously yes. Can it be sustained with any consistency? Nothing to date has shown me that it can.

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

ACC has three colleges jammed into a state that can hardly support its NBA team or pro football team. Everyone of these leagues have very weak sisters.

Not sure where you are getting your information from. To say that the Carolina Panthers have no fan support is absurd. Carolina Panthers have averaged over 99% capacity since their stadium opened. I think the low was 98% in 2011.
Cannot speak to the Bobcats/Hornets, they have been dreadful. The old Hornets led the league in attendance many years in the 90's. Not a fan of either team, but I live in the area.

 

[pj]

I understand that you are trying to put a positive spin on circumstances that as a fan are beyond your control, but you can not honestly believe what you wrote. The AAC's worst enemy is not itself, on the contrary it has experienced success in spite of itself. How can you run down the programs and perception of the Big 12, B1G and ACC, but then proceed to make the argument that The AAC's Markets make it an equal competitor regardless of the programs that comprise it?

The Big 12 is a one trick pony? Seriously? Oklahoma and Kansas do nothing for it? Baylor, TCU, KSU, OSU and WVU have all played in BCS Bowls in the last 3-4 years. Not exactly the barren athletic wasteland you portend.

The B1G is OSU, PSU and then a bunch of slum properties in Michigan? Wut? So much is wrong with that statement I can't even address it further without my brain hurting.

While I agree that The ACC is hamstrung by having 4 schools in one medium sized state, we all know that no one is being kicked out of or voluntarily leaving a P5 Conference in the immediate future. What was the point of bringing the Hornets and Panthers into the discussion? North Carolina was a college basketball hotbed long before the NBA or NFL ever considered coming to town. Much of the state's rooting interest revolves around UNC v. Duke, UNC v. NCSU or gasp NASCAR. That won't change anytime soon. Factor in a large number of Northeastern and Midwestern Transplants, with their allegiances to "hometown" pro franchises, and you have a recipe for lukewarm local pro support.

Orlando, Houston, Tampa, etc, etc. might be populous and wealthy markets, but it doesn't benefit The AAC if there is minimal support for the programs located within. People love to joke about "little brother" schools within the various P5 Conferences, but if you remove UCONN from the discussion, the majority of remaining AAC Programs would be more akin to "sickly cousin" programs. They lag hopelessly behind in resources, facilities, alumni/fan support, recruiting and athletic history. Can programs occasionally break through and achieve big things? Obviously yes. Can it be sustained with any consistency? Nothing to date has shown me that it can.

You're talking sense to a crazy man. Admirable ... or a waste of time.

 

[Fishy]

Orlando, Houston, Tampa, CT, Tulsa, Memphis, Philly etc. are populated wealthy spaces so why is it that we should have to crawl to some two bit Iowa town or West Virginia hovel for validation. We need to take care of our business and win. Then it will be the P-6.

No, it won't.

The "P6" fantasy is just that.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Basically the basketball fans see the hoops program falling apart over the coming years in the AAC. It is inevitable, UConn, even with Ollie and a NC, cannot recruit with the P5 teams. Ollie will eventually leave, as well. So, the best case in their opinion is to latch onto the Big East, where the regular season games are still relevant and fun and the opponents are somewhat local and rivals.

Meanwhile, there is little hope that football will ever be good or interesting and at this point just holds back having any interest in athletics in the state school. Keep the program in the 1% chance that a P5 conference decides to invite the school, but reality is if it dies, it dies. Just don't let it kill the equity built up in the hoops programs.

I am shocked this post has been up for 10 hours without getting shredded by the "football is the only sport that matters" fans.

I agree with you that staying in the AAC is a terrible decision.

 

[Durks07]

No, it won't.

The "P6" fantasy is just that.

Its too ludicrous a concept to be considered a fantasy.

 

[pnow15]

I saw an interesting thing on television Lions vs Cowboys. During the broadcast CBS was constantly promoting the Big East conference games. AAC signed with ESPN to be ugly step sister for the P-5. AAC needs to sign with Fox sports or CBS Sports. This P-5 is promoted by ESPN and television money. There are a lot of fans who are not in P-5 fans. There has to be a network that has the programming to destroy this ESPN monster. ACC has to find that network and offer a good product. ESPN is owned by Disney and ABC news.

 

[Fishy]

Fox is really doing wonders for the Big East in terms of exposure.

They routinely draw ratings of zero.

Please stop posting.

Please.

You're not good at it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Fox is really doing wonders for the Big East in terms of exposure.

They routinely draw ratings of zero.

Please stop posting.

Please.

You're not good at it.

Can we stop making the argument that less money is better than more money? It hurts my head.

 

[Fishy]

Can we stop making the argument that less money is better than more money? It hurts my head.

I realize that you are really dense and basically a one-trick pony.

Everyone would love more money.

But money doesn't equal exposure and the lack of exposure Fox offers would kill us dead.

So shut the ever-loving f--- up.

 

[Gfunk]

UCF and Houston played a thrilling OT game, hoops, and the arena is barely filled in the 4th largest city in the US. Sure it may be winter break, but that was so sad to see. A once proud and even mighty program Houston was - I loved the Drexler & Akeem years.

As for UConn, so damn unfortunate to see one of the most successful programs in the 64 plus team era left in this conference. I'm finally watching college sports with a passion now that basketball and hockey season are in play, how nice UConn would be in the BIG.

CB is just not important enough on the expansion radar & it makes me sad.

They can save this sport if the dump the one and done rule and make the kids stay at least 2 years, I'd prefer 3 with a special draft for hs players and those declaring after their sophomore year. That is each year the top hs kid can declare for the draft, while the top 5 sophomores may leave as well.

 

[Fishy]

Houston is our cautionary tale.

They got into Conference USA the same way we got into the American.

The Southwest Conference evaporated and they ended up in a newly formed conference.

 

[TRest]

Houston is our cautionary tale.

They got into Conference USA the same way we got into the American.

The Southwest Conference evaporated and they ended up in a newly formed conference.

TCU wandered in the desert also, but was saved by football. Winning football, which is more of a challenge, but our Tiffany basketball programs have gotten us nowhere at this point.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

TCU wandered in the desert also, but was saved by football. Winning football, which is more of a challenge, but our Tiffany basketball programs have gotten us nowhere at this point.

Good point. Let's do something that is guaranteed to turn them into New Hampshire's basketball programs.

 

[noeynox]

You'd figure that once you saw Buzz Williams run from Marquette to VA Tech for less money, and start talking about a P5 breakaway in the not too distant future it would have registered the Big East is not panacea for UConn athletics. The money for now is about even when exit fees and the like are tallied, so the only thing that I can come too is Nelson was serious about dropping football. Even the extra 2 million or so minus exit fees aren't worth the headaches it would cost to football, with scheduling and the like. UConn should follow the RU model. Start cutting non revenue sports left and right and invest those savings in football. I bet we see that in the not too distant future.

 

[noeynox]

Houston is our cautionary tale.

They got into Conference USA the same way we got into the American.

The Southwest Conference evaporated and they ended up in a newly formed conference.

What's scary about this thought is that Houston also had some GREAT FB teams under Jack Pardee in the SWC. It totally crippled their athletic teams to end up in Conf USA.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You'd figure that once you saw Buzz Williams run from Marquette to VA Tech for less money, and start talking about a P5 breakaway in the not too distant future it would have registered the Big East panacea for UConn athletics. The money for now is about even when exit fees and the like are tallied, so the only thing that I can come too is Nelson was serious about dropping football. Even the extra 2 million or so minus exit fees aren't worth the headaches it would cost to football, with scheduling and the like. UConn should follow the RU model. Start cutting non revenue sports left and right and invest those savings in football. I bet we see that in the not too distant future.

Did Buzz say that the AAC was getting taken with the P5? I missed that. GO AAC!!!!!!!!

The money is a freaking catastrophe, it is not about even. The women's program alone was making more from SNY than all 3 programs are making from ESPN now.

 

[noeynox]

Did Buzz say that the AAC was getting taken with the P5? I missed that. GO AAC!!!!!!!!

The money is a freaking catastrophe, it is not about even. The women's program alone was making more from SNY than all 3 programs are making from ESPN now.

Will the windfall from the Big East be worth the headaches for the FB program? The scheduling nightmare, the diminished exposure, the fact that the games will have no shot of ever again drawing anything resembling our past attendance?

The women was still allowed to keep their deal with SNY, so I don't know what your point is there.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Basically the basketball fans see the hoops program falling apart over the coming years in the AAC. It is inevitable, UConn, even with Ollie and a NC, cannot recruit with the P5 teams. Ollie will eventually leave, as well. So, the best case in their opinion is to latch onto the Big East, where the regular season games are still relevant and fun and the opponents are somewhat local and rivals.

Meanwhile, there is little hope that football will ever be good or interesting and at this point just holds back having any interest in athletics in the state school. Keep the program in the 1% chance that a P5 conference decides to invite the school, but reality is if it dies, it dies. Just don't let it kill the equity built up in the hoops programs.

I've stated the facts before. Since the inception of the NCAA Men's Championship in 1939, there have been 76 titles earned. Of those 76 championships, 18 have been won by prorgams that are not currently a P5 member, which is 24%. Within those 18 titles, 9 have been won by programs that do not have D-1/FBS, which is 12%. Since 2000, no titles have been won by programs without a D-1/FBS football program and 3 titles have been won by non P5 programs, all of which belong to UConn. Thus, UConn must keep it's D-1/FBS football program, make the changes it needs to be successful, and work/hope for a P5 promotion (50/50 within the next decade?) because without a football team, UConn's basketball future is bleak.

 

[pnow15]

The question is really simple. Why should two hundred college football programs allow themselves to be put permanently into a second class status by a handful of elite programs trying to monopolize television money? And in the process destroy NCAA basketball. If a handful of colleges want to establish a semi-pro league using the guise of college footbal, then they should quit pretending that this is college football.
This is caused by the gutlessness of the current leadership of the NCAA, who should start enforcing its eligibility criteria instead genuflecting to these conferences. The perfect example of this is North Carolina and its fake degrees. The NCAA should hit this school with a five year death sentence. And when the P-5 pros object, at least, the pretense of these schools being interested in providing students athletes with an education will now be utterly exposed for the lie is has always been.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The question is really simple. Why should two hundred college football programs allow themselves to be put permanently into a second class status by a handful of elite programs trying to monopolize television money? And in the process destroy NCAA basketball. If a handful of colleges want to establish a semi-pro league using the guise of college footbal, then they should quit pretending that this is college football.
This is caused by the gutlessness of the current leadership of the NCAA, who should start enforcing its eligibility criteria instead genuflecting to these conferences. The perfect example of this is North Carolina and its fake degrees. The NCAA should hit this school with a five year death sentence. And when the P-5 pros object, at least, the pretense of these schools being interested in providing students athletes with an education will now be utterly exposed for the lie is has always been.

The NCAA has no power, other than to punish UConn.

Your initial question is the right one, but it appears that the "have nots" are just sheep content to be led to slaughter.

 

[noeynox]

The NCAA has no power, other than to punish UConn.

Your initial question is the right one, but it appears that the "have nots" are just sheep content to be led to slaughter.

On this we are in agreement. Worse they are led by Mark Emmert for whom there are no words for how bad he is.