Sue Bird Interview with some Paige tidbits

[Skeets]

There is nobody up there or on the next mountain who did not.

The next mountain? I like the idea. Who is on the next mountain? Oh no, let the posts begin...

 

[BBallF]

The next mountain? I like the idea. Who is on the next mountain? Oh no, let the posts begin...

Bird and Charles to start?

 

[BBallF]

The next mountain? I like the idea. Who is on the next mountain? Oh no, let the posts begin...

Swin? Mo Jeff? Jenn? Nykesha?

 

[oldude]

Sure, Stockton was a great player but we are talking about the greatest. He wasn't. No way he is ahead of Magic. Basketball is a lot different from baseball or football in terms of one player having his or her greatness lead to a title and it depends on the position. In baseball, a fielder and hitter can be very influential but a pitcher with a Gibson/Koufax kind of a year can bring home a title. In football, it can be a quarterback like a Brady or a great running back like a Jim Brown but there are so many more players on the team that have to perform at a high level. In basketball, it is 1 of 5 and that 1 can dominate a game. Take the Maya game against Stanford or DT's last 2 title runs. It is true that you still need a team to do it but if you can't bring your team to the finish line, how great were you? In the end, Paige will be judged by titles and rings in my mind. When you think about the Mt. Rushmore at UCONN you think about players who won championships. There is nobody up there or on the next mountain who did not.

There are a couple different themes on this thread. Since it started with a question to Sue on how she would rank Paige. I agree there’s an element of who’s the greatest Husky guard, or Husky in general. There is also a second theme embedded in Sue’s answer, “the only thing you’re judged on is championships.”

While championships are hopefully a part of a player’s resume, most players never win a championship. If nothing else matters besides championships, we leave out a lot of great players like Bascom, Dangerfield, Walker, Tittle, Stockton, Malone, Trout and many others who had the misfortune of playing on teams that weren’t quite good enough to win a championship.

As I said earlier in this thread, if we judge UConn players only on championships, then Mo is the greatest guard in UConn’s history. Since no one actually appears to be making the case to put Mo on UConn’s Mt Rushmore, I think that means there are other criteria besides championships that come into play.

 

[CL82]

There are a couple different themes on this thread. Since it started with a question to Sue on how she would rank Paige. I agree there’s an element of who’s the greatest Husky guard, or Husky in general. There is also a second theme embedded in Sue’s answer, “the only thing you’re judged on is championships.”

While championships are hopefully a part of a player’s resume, most players never win a championship. If nothing else matters besides championships, we leave out a lot of great players like Bascom, Dangerfield, Walker, Tittle, Stockton, Malone, Trout and many others who had the misfortune of playing on teams that weren’t quite good enough to win a championship.

As I said earlier in this thread, if we judge UConn players only on championships, then Mo is the greatest guard in UConn’s history. Since no one actually appears to be making the case to put Mo on UConn’s Mt Rushmore, I think that means there are other criteria besides championships that come into play.

Did she say that though or did she say that the way you distinguish among you can great point guards is championships?

 

[BBallF]

There are a couple different themes on this thread. Since it started with a question to Sue on how she would rank Paige. I agree there’s an element of who’s the greatest Husky guard, or Husky in general. There is also a second theme embedded in Sue’s answer, “the only thing you’re judged on is championships.”

While championships are hopefully a part of a player’s resume, most players never win a championship. If nothing else matters besides championships, we leave out a lot of great players like Bascom, Dangerfield, Walker, Tittle, Stockton, Malone, Trout and many others who had the misfortune of playing on teams that weren’t quite good enough to win a championship.

As I said earlier in this thread, if we judge UConn players only on championships, then Mo is the greatest guard in UConn’s history. Since no one actually appears to be making the case to put Mo on UConn’s Mt Rushmore, I think that means there are other criteria besides championships that come into play.

Not judging on championships alone but the lack of one in my mind removes that player from that "greatest" title. In other words it is a necessary part of the c.v. to be considered as the greatest at a position. Lobo "only" won one but it was the first and it was a watershed event in the history of WBB. Then you have Stewie, D, Maya, Bird, Tina, Mo Jeff etc. Once you have the title, you then have the other awards to consider like AA, POY, etc. A lot of it is the "eye" test also and what they do to win. Now, if Paige had had a South Carolina type game in the semis or finals and we won it all, it would be a different conversation.

 

[oldude]

Not judging on championships alone but the lack of one in my mind removes that player from that "greatest" title. In other words it is a necessary part of the c.v. to be considered as the greatest at a position. Lobo "only" won one but it was the first and it was a watershed event in the history of WBB. Then you have Stewie, D, Maya, Bird, Tina, Mo Jeff etc. Once you have the title, you then have the other awards to consider like AA, POY, etc. A lot of it is the "eye" test also and what they do to win. Now, if Paige had had a South Carolina type game in the semis or finals and we won it all, it would be a different conversation.

Good thing Jim Brown won his one and only championship in 1964.......

 

[oldude]

Did she say that though or did she say that the way you distinguish among you can great point guards is championships?

What Sue is reported to have said is, “The only thing you’re judged on is championships.” As I commented earlier, while that statement has a nice ring to it, it’s a bit of hyperbole.

 

[Bald Husky]

There is simply no way to determine who is the best player in UConn history, and which was the best team. There is no team in the country that has produced the huge number of stars that UConn has. With other schools I'm sure the fans and local media could have a consensus of the top 5 players in their history, but we cannot really agree on a top 10 for UConn.

It is extremely unusual for a single player to win a NC by herself, and in my recollection, it still hasn't been done. Sue was surrounded by great players, Stewie was surrounded by great players, Maya, Tina, the same. You can debate the different great teams, but a star will only "contribute" if surrounded by other excellent players. After the seniors left after 2002, the sophomore Diana Taurasi was left with 3 freshmen and a few bench players. This team had no business making it to the final 4, but at the sacrifice of her own personal stats, Diana taught, mentored, and not only willed this team to the F4, but actually pulled them out of the fire against a excellent and tall Texas team, then beat Tennessee in the final.

As far as best team, most people think the 2002 team was best, and yes, they were great. As far as total talent, 2001 had these same players as 2002, but also Svetlana Abrosimova and Shea Ralph, both first team All Americans.

Because of all the great players that end up playing together, it just is hard to really know. NCs need a great team, not only a great player. That should not be the criteria, so the debate will go on.

PS to Oldude, I agree that MJ was our best PG at this time.

 

[CocoHusky]

Teams win championships. Saniya was on 3 championship teams as a reserve. The one year she became a regular in the starting lineup UConn lost to MS St in the national semifinals.

Individually Paige has accomplished more than any freshman in UConn’s history as well as being the first player in WBB history to be named NPOY as a freshman. I would love to see her be part of multiple national championships at UConn. But whether or not that happens, I have no doubt that Paige Bueckers will be one of UConn’s all-time greats.

Great individual players lead team to championships figuratively and literally dragging them across the finish line when necessary. AKA know as what UCONN has been missing recently. Paige is already in the conversation of UCONN all time greats. Without a championship, which is highly unlikely, that distinction alone will lower Paige in the UCONN WBB GOAT rankings which is Sue's main point.

 

[BBallF]

Great individual players lead team to championships figuratively and literally dragging them across the finish line when necessary. AKA know as what UCONN has been missing recently. Paige is already in the conversation of UCONN all time greats. Without a championship, which is highly unlikely, that distinction alone will lower Paige in the UCONN WBB GOAT rankings which is Sue's main point.

I agree. Sue's point is that there have been so many great players here, unlike almost every other school, that the dividing line becomes NCs. It doesn't mean whoever has the most is the best or the least is the worst, just that great basketball players elevate their teammates, like Diana in 2003 and 2004, and get it done.

 

[oldude]

When we disagree about how we rank players, we are often disagreeing about our respective criteria for ranking players. If we rank UConn players by championships, Stewie, Tuck and Mo are tops. For points scored it’s Maya. For career wins it’s Saniya Chong & Tierney Lawlor (yes that’s correct).

My #1 criteria is something of an intangible. I think the greatest players are the ones who make everyone around them better. That’s why my MBB GOAT is Magic and not MJ.

As far as UConn WBB, I thought I would never see another player like DT whose ability to lead her team, get everyone involved and deliver in the clutch was unparalleled. This past season Paige changed my opinion on that criteria.

Hopefully, Paige will be part of multiple championships at UConn. If that happens, the BY will be arguing about the GOAT for years to come.

 

[BBallF]

Good thing Jim Brown won his one and only championship in 1964.......

That example makes both of our points. If he didn't win in 1964 he would still be in the conversation and probably still thought of as the greatest, meaning the title isn't the important factor. My point is that football isn't basketball, the chances of the great player dominating, unless it's a quarterback is far less and even then that quarterback doesn't play defense. But this is UCONN, not Iowa, and greatness isn't just the eye test or the numbers or the AA awards.

 

[BBallF]

When we disagree about how we rank players, we are often disagreeing about our respective criteria for ranking players. If we rank players by championships, Stewie, Tuck and Mo are tops. For points scored it’s Maya. For career winning percentage it’s Saniya Chong & Tierney Lawlor (yes that’s correct).

My #1 criteria is something of an intangible. I think the greatest players are the ones who make everyone around them better. That’s why my MBB GOAT is Magic and not MJ.

As far as UConn WBB, I thought I would never see another player like DT whose ability to lead her team, get everyone involved and deliver in the clutch was unparalleled. This past season Paige changed my opinion on that criteria.

Hopefully, Paige will be part of multiple championships at UConn. If that happens, the BY will be arguing about the GOAT for years to come.

Well, Paige was only a freshman but her last game was not DT like. I take MJ. Magic had Worthy and Kareem and others. They were great already. MJ had Pippen true but if the Last Dance was about anything it was about him making everyone better. You knew who John Paxson and Steve Kerr were a long time ago. His will to win was imbued in everyone around him.

 

[CocoHusky]

When we disagree about how we rank players, we are often disagreeing about our respective criteria for ranking players. If we rank players by championships, Stewie, Tuck and Mo are tops. For points scored it’s Maya. For career winning percentage it’s Saniya Chong & Tierney Lawlor (yes that’s correct).

My #1 criteria is something of an intangible. I think the greatest players are the ones who make everyone around them better. That’s why my MBB GOAT is Magic and not MJ.

As far as UConn WBB, I thought I would never see another player like DT whose ability to lead her team, get everyone involved and deliver in the clutch was unparalleled. This past season Paige changed my opinion on that criteria.

Hopefully, Paige will be part of multiple championships at UConn. If that happens, the BY will be arguing about the GOAT for years to come.

That's not how I rank them or even start a GOAT conversation. When I rank UCONN WBB GOAT Morgan Tuck (as much as I love her) is never in the conversation. Tierney Lawlor? Really? The UCONN GOAT conversation has a very simple filter. If you were not NPOY you you don't belong in the conversation!

 

[Bald Husky]

Throughout our history, great players and teams have adorned this university continuously. We can debate players, debate teams, but the bottom line as far the rest of the country is concerned, there is no debate. One greatness stands out, and maybe we have lost our perspective. It's right in front of us. One greatness that will never be debated. That my friends, is UCONN!!!

 

[oldude]

Well, Paige was only a freshman but her last game was not DT like. I take MJ. Magic had Worthy and Kareem and others. They were great already. MJ had Pippen true but if the Last Dance was about anything it was about him making everyone better. You knew who John Paxson and Steve Kerr were a long time ago. His will to win was imbued in everyone around him.

Let’s compare apples to apples. In DT’s freshman season in the national semifinals vs ND, she had possibly the worst game of her college career during a 90-75 loss to the Irish. DT was 1-15 from the floor.

 

[meyers7]

I agree that how many rings you have is a bit of a dodge. By that metric, Mo is the best guard that ever played at UConn. But I will credit Sue for being smart enough not to jump into the middle of that endless argument with no clear answer.

There are plenty of other metrics to make that argument with.

 

[oldude]

That's not how I rank them or even start a GOAT conversation. When I rank UCONN WBB GOAT Morgan Tuck (as much as I love her) is never in the conversation. Tierney Lawlor? Really? The UCONN GOAT conversation has a very simple filter. If you were not NPOY you you don't belong in the conversation!

That’s a reasonable starting point. My intent in bringing up Tuck & Tierney Lawlor is not to suggest that they are all time UConn greats, but merely to suggest that championships and total wins may not be the best place to start the conversation.

 

[oldude]

There are plenty of other metrics to make that argument with.

That’s exactly my point.

 

[meyers7]

That’s exactly my point.

Didn't sound like it. The way you put it, it sounded like you didn't think Jefferson was the best PG that ever played at UCONN.

 

[oldude]

Didn't sound like it. The way you put it, it sounded like you didn't think Jefferson was the best PG that ever played at UCONN.

I think when all is said and done, it’ll be Paige. But if you exclude DT from the pg conversation as a “combo” guard, I actually rank Mo as #1 and Sue as #2.

 

[fan4eva]

I think Paige has already gotten past the "just another top recruit" category.

so you're lowering the bar for her from championships to stats? the point Uconn you're measured by Championships which is why people place Stewie over Maya and D even tho both were better players than Stewie hopefully Paige can win some Championships to further complicated the debate as to who's the best but if she doesn't win anything she's just another top recruit with amazing stats

 

[darkstar1]

When we disagree about how we rank players, we are often disagreeing about our respective criteria for ranking players. If we rank UConn players by championships, Stewie, Tuck and Mo are tops. For points scored it’s Maya. For career wins it’s Saniya Chong & Tierney Lawlor (yes that’s correct).

My #1 criteria is something of an intangible. I think the greatest players are the ones who make everyone around them better. That’s why my MBB GOAT is Magic and not MJ.

As far as UConn WBB, I thought I would never see another player like DT whose ability to lead her team, get everyone involved and deliver in the clutch was unparalleled. This past season Paige changed my opinion on that criteria.

Hopefully, Paige will be part of multiple championships at UConn. If that happens, the BY will be arguing about the GOAT for years to come.

I agree with the theme of this posting. Intangibles are huge to team success. That is why I don’t understand why Napheesa is not generally mentioned in the same breath as other players when discussing top 5 or 10 UConn players. Stats + intangibles. 1 NC and 3 other final fours. Maybe if y’all replaced NC’s with final fours as the key criteria , you could more effectively evaluate the greatness of past Huskies.

 

[Stymie]

My interpretation of Sue’s comments is adding to the National Championship Tradition.
Does not mean needing to win 3 or 4 straight, or even multiple (which would be a major plus) but to add to the history of UCONN excellence by leading the program to at least one championship title to even be considered.
IMHO- if Paige wins POY for four consecutive years (won’t happen) and fails to be a member of at least one National Championship winner, I would argue that the POY award is conveyed under false criteria.

 

[GoingPostal]

so you're lowering the bar for her from championships to stats? the point Uconn you're measured by Championships which is why people place Stewie over Maya and D even tho both were better players than Stewie hopefully Paige can win some Championships to further complicated the debate as to who's the best but if she doesn't win anything she's just another top recruit with amazing stats

I'm not lowering anything. The plain fact is, Paige is not "just another top recruit".

 

[BobbyJ]

Sue specifically said: "But, when you go to Connecticut, the only thing you’re judged on is championships."
Is anyone seriously debating this statement?

A lot of people like Bird who have a public platform like to think they speak for a lot of people. They should realize that in fact, it’s just their opinion.

 

[BBallF]

Let’s compare apples to apples. In DT’s freshman season in the national semifinals vs ND, she had possibly the worst game of her college career during a 90-75 loss to the Irish. DT was 1-15 from the floor.

Absolutely true but ironically it may have been the best thing to happen to her. She often referred to that game as a prime motivator. The next year in the Finals, Geno called a time out and cleared the left side of the court for her as a sophomore. She backed down her defender, spun, double pumped and Stacey Dales, who had come over to double, fouled her and fouled out. D made the bucket and foul shot. Game, set, match. My point wasn't that D was better than Paige as a freshman, it was that on the National Semi stage Paige was outplayed. Perhaps that loss to Arizona will have the same motivating effect on her and hopefully the whole team.

 

[oldude]

Absolutely true but ironically it may have been the best thing to happen to her. She often referred to that game as a prime motivator. The next year in the Finals, Geno called a time out and cleared the left side of the court for her as a sophomore. She backed down her defender, spun, double pumped and Stacey Dales, who had come over to double, fouled her and fouled out. D made the bucket and foul shot. Game, set, match. My point wasn't that D was better than Paige as a freshman, it was that on the National Semi stage Paige was outplayed. Perhaps that loss to Arizona will have the same motivating effect on her and hopefully the whole team.

I expect the entire team to be motivated by the AZ loss. The picture that E posted when she announced her intention to return next season, of Liv, Christyn and herself walking off the court with looks of both dissatisfaction and determination, with the caption, “Unfinished Business” pretty much confirms the team’s motivation for the upcoming season.

 

[CL82]

What Sue is reported to have said is, “The only thing you’re judged on is championships.” As I commented earlier, while that statement has a nice ring to it, it’s a bit of hyperbole.

Sort of. Here is the full quote from the OP:

Yeah, listen, the kid is incredibly talented. You can see it not just in her play, but in her personality, in her attitude, she definitely has star qualities. But, when you go to Connecticut, the only thing you’re judged on is championships. So, that obviously — and that’s not to challenge her, she already knows that, (laughs) I’m not trying to talk by any means, I hope she wins the next three years, of course — but usually when it’s all said and done, that’s how you settle this argument. And it’s really because there’s been so many great players.

Would you take Maya (Moore) or D (Diana Taurasi), I don’t know? Would you take Stewie or D or Maya or Rebecca (Lobo) or Tina (Charles) or? It’s like, gosh, how do you pick? So at the end of the day, you just gotta settle it with the ring. We’ll see how she does.

Yes she did say the words “the only thing you’re judged on is championships” but you have to interpret those word within context laid out in the complete quote. She is using that particular criteria as a tie breaker among several talented athletes.