Sue Bird Interview with some Paige tidbits

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Tim Duncan exited the NBA the same he entered it – as a starter for the San Antonio Spurs with a selfless, team-first commitment to winning and an aversion for the spotlight.

He evolved as a player and person over a remarkable career that lasted nearly two decades, but those core values never wavered as Duncan developed into one of the best power forwards in basketball history.
Exactly. 5 NBA titles. Nicknamed " The Big Fundamental", he played for Pop whose practices Geno attended and emulated. He is easily ahead of Karl Malone in my book in the power forward hierarchy. Why? How many titles did Malone have?
 
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I've never once heard when talking about the greatest Duncan being in the conversation, again Rodgers has 1 sb and when ppl say he is the goat of qb's they have every right to believe it and same with other sports, it's a team sport unless it's tennis or golf you are on your own
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about anything. That's the First Amendment and the Boneyard. However, you also have the right to disagree. Rodgers the GOAT of QBs? Not even close. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, to start. That is exactly why rings matter even in team sports when you try to compare. In the end, how do you do it? Statistics, individual awards, won-loss record? If you are so great, other than very limited exceptions, titles are a dividing line as to greatest. Now, if you specify greatest in a category, rings don't decide it. Greatest hitters of all time? You have to include Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Rod Carew, and Tony Gwynn as potentials on your list with the first 2 certainly in your top 5 candidates. None of the 4 had a ring. Rogers Hornsby, who may top the list, won one title but that is irrelevant to the category. He hit .400 3 times and .424 was his highest. Remember that they counted sacrifice flies as at bats back then. He is also the only player to hit .400 and have 40 homers in a season. The Splinter had 37 in 1941.
 
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I picked specific examples. Koufax in 1963 was 25-5 and the Dodgers won 99 games so Koufax won 25% of them . Their best player was Tommy Davis who hit .326 with 15 homers and 88 RBIs. Who was more valuable? Who had a greater impact? The league thought Koufax, he was MVP and Cy Young. That is a rare phenomenon in baseball in that one player can have such an impact. In basketball, one player can be all the difference. Rewatch the Semis if you don't believe me.
You also mentioned Ted Williams in your post you don’t think he was impactful on an everyday basis
 
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You also mentioned Ted Williams in your post you don’t think he was impactful on an everyday basis
I definitely do. He was impactful on an everyday basis, but not the way Stewie was impactful, or Diana was impactful because in their sport one player can take a game(s) over and win it and win a title. Even in 1941 when Williams hit .406, counting sacrifice flies as at bats( it is calculated by today's rules he really hit .411-. 419) the Sox finished second, 17 games behind the Yankees. Joe D was MVP with his 56 game streak. Since in basketball one player has the power to use their greatness to achieve team greatness, titles are a line of demarcation for me. Paige isn't there yet. She has a long way to go to knock Bird or Mo Jeff off that perch. And if you are talking about greatest women's PG ever, then you have to include the WNBA, Olympic Golds, and probably Europe too so we may need to wait a dozen years or more to make a sound judgment.
 

oldude

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This thread is becoming an exercise in “hair splitting.” While everyone Is entitled to their own criteria on what constitutes a “great” player, imo winning a championship in a “TEAM” sport is not an absolute requirement. Neither are individual honors such as AA or POY. To repurpose a famous line from former Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, “I know it when I see it.”

For me, Bascom, Dangerfield, Walker, Stockton, Malone and many others who never had the great good fortune to play on a championship team all fit the bill of achieving a level of greatness to be praised and admired. If Paige never wins an NCAA championship, she will nonetheless be considered a great player, not just by me, but literally millions of basketball fans.
 
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion about anything. That's the First Amendment and the Boneyard. However, you also have the right to disagree. Rodgers the GOAT of QBs? Not even close. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, to start. That is exactly why rings matter even in team sports when you try to compare. In the end, how do you do it? Statistics, individual awards, won-loss record? If you are so great, other than very limited exceptions, titles are a dividing line as to greatest. Now, if you specify greatest in a category, rings don't decide it. Greatest hitters of all time? You have to include Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Rod Carew, and Tony Gwynn as potentials on your list with the first 2 certainly in your top 5 candidates. None of the 4 had a ring. Rogers Hornsby, who may top the list, won one title but that is irrelevant to the category. He hit .400 3 times and .424 was his highest. Remember that they counted sacrifice flies as at bats back then. He is also the only player to hit .400 and have 40 homers in a season. The Splinter had 37 in 1941.

But according to some here the only measure of a hitter is how he plays in the world series. What he does during the season is irrelevant. Also, did his team win?
 
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I think the disagreement here is because we are talking about two different things. I was talking about "greatest" not "great". To me, "greatest" is easier to define. It means the best ever. "Great" is much more subjective. Stockton and Malone were great to me. Neither was the greatest at their position. I take Magic over Stockton and Duncan over Malone. Walker, not great to me. Effective no show in the 3 biggest games of her All American year.
 
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion about anything. That's the First Amendment and the Boneyard. However, you also have the right to disagree. Rodgers the GOAT of QBs? Not even close. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, to start. That is exactly why rings matter even in team sports when you try to compare. In the end, how do you do it? Statistics, individual awards, won-loss record? If you are so great, other than very limited exceptions, titles are a dividing line as to greatest. Now, if you specify greatest in a category, rings don't decide it. Greatest hitters of all time? You have to include Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Rod Carew, and Tony Gwynn as potentials on your list with the first 2 certainly in your top 5 candidates. None of the 4 had a ring. Rogers Hornsby, who may top the list, won one title but that is irrelevant to the category. He hit .400 3 times and .424 was his highest. Remember that they counted sacrifice flies as at bats back then. He is also the only player to hit .400 and have 40 homers in a season. The Splinter had 37 in 1941.
td to int ratio is a laugher, nobody even comes close to Rodgers. Again what is Rodgers suppose to do? The team is up 8 with 1:50 to go, Russell Wilson makes the most ridiculous 2 I have ever seen, they recover an onside kick, tie win in OT. Rodgers with no name wr's throws 2 straight hail marys vs Arz with 30 seconds to go to force OT, loses cause they lose the coin toss. 1 top 10 defense in his career, they win the SB that year. Again he can only do his part, same with Paige, she can only make the shots, play defense and pass the ball and hope her teammates make it in, she can't do anything if a player goes 0-10 in a final 4 game
 
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I don't think Paige felt that way at all. "Hey, I played great and Liv stunk and she cost us the NC". She was disconsolate. Paige did not have an "I am the POY" game and was outplayed and clearly not the best player on the floor.

You also can't compare football or baseball to basketball. A great basketball player takes over the game, controls the game, wins the game and elevates her teammates. When I see a DT type performance in 2003 or 2004 or a Maya type game against Stanford in the Semis and Finals, that's when I get on the Paige is the greatest bandwagon.

Bird was right I think. At other schools, you can be the greatest there without a ring. At UCONN, if you are the greatest there you are probably the greatest ever. Greatest PG for me is Bird, for some Mo Jeff. For the 2 guard, DT. For the 3 position, Maya. For the 4 position, Stewie. They are also the greatest ever at those positions. Coincidentally, it's not just limited to college but pro also. You can pick the 5, but Tina Charles can start on my best ever team any day. Is she the best ever at that position? Many would say no and choose Lisa Leslie, Anne Donovan, Sylvia Fowles, others. Tina plays basketball the UCONN way, that's why she gets my nod.
 

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