Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi open door for Team USA return

[Orangutan]

It's probably worth remembering the words of Geno and Dawn Staley in February of 2016.

Is it? I'm questioning the logic of USAB. Restating that logic isn't all that useful to me because it's the *exact thing I'm questioning*.

If we take the USAB coach's opinion as the last word on the matter, there is no point even discussing national team selection. We should just wait for them to deliver pronouncements.

Besides, their comments were about 2016. Geno's "somebody's going to have to emerge" comment and Dawn's mention that the USAB PGs typically have understudies both speak to what some of us are saying - one or more younger guards should be on the 2018 team, if only in an "understudy" capacity.

 

[UConnCat]

Is it? I'm questioning the logic of USAB. Restating that logic isn't all that useful to me because it's the *exact thing I'm questioning*.

If we take the USAB coach's opinion as the last word on the matter, there is no point even discussing national team selection. We should just wait for them to deliver pronouncements.

Besides, their comments were about 2016. Geno's "somebody's going to have to emerge" comment and Dawn's mention that the USAB PGs typically have understudies both speak to what some of us are saying - one or more younger guards should be on the 2018 team, if only in an "understudy" capacity.

Well it's useful to me which is why I restated it. I agree that one or more younger guards should be on the 2018 team and I believe will be on the team. Part of the discussion here has looked back on why younger guards weren't on the 2016 Olympic team and these quotes tell us why that didn't happen. Of the group of available young guards not one emerged worthy of a spot on the Olympic team and the investment that selection represents. Both Geno and Dawn spoke of USA BB's approach to investing in and grooming young point guards to eventually lead the team. That is the logic and it seems pretty sound to me. The problem lies not with USA BB's logic but rather with the play of the available young guards. USA BB looked and didn't see the future.

It's important to mention that the comments by Geno and Dawn were during the February 2016 training camp, the last camp before selection of the Olympic team. Neither Diggins nor Sims attended that camp. Both were in the US but said to be "rehabbing injuries." If one or both were healthy enough to play a few months later in Rio, they essentially took themselves out of the running by not attending camp to watch, listen and learn. The young guards who did attend were McBride, Loyd, Vandersloot and Danielle Robinson. USA BB didn't seen the future point guard in either Vandersloot or Robinson and that decision seems pretty sound to me.

The next USA BB training camp will probably be late September so we'll get a look then at the pool of young guards who could make the World Cup team.

 

[NOI33]

IIRC Sims wasn't a big time scorer until her Sr. year at Baylor, after Griner graduated. Diggins may have been a scorer throughout her career at Notre Dame but she was a member of some really good teams that had some balanced scoring. Agree w/ above poster, I'm not convinced at this point that either of those players are bad fits for the NT. I keep harping on it, but if not in '20 then definitely in '24 there are going to need to be some new guards playing for the NT. Maybe Jefferson is one of them, but somebody else needs to fill some slots. Who knows, by '24 maybe Ionescu will be the best guard in the U.S...

Maybe women's basketball is totally different in this regard, but I don't really think so. Pass first PG is kind of a thing of the past for the most part. Most of the best PG are scoring threats. They don't have to be the first option, but they definitely aren't the last option. You can facilitate an offense and still have plenty of scoring opportunities yourself.

Exactly. That is why Mo Jeff was so lethal at UCONN in her junior and senior years, and why she was so highly heralded. Being a great facilitator as a PG in the WNBA is not enough anymore (see Sam Prahalis, Niya Johnson, Samantha Logic, Jude Schimmel, etc.). You have to be a scoring threat as well, or you'll be cut. Not sure why people are making it seem like being a great and reliable scorer makes you incapable of leading a National team...

Steph Curry and Kyrie are not exceptions in the NBA, they are becoming the standard. Westbrook, Thomas, Lillard, Wall, Walker...the list goes on and on. All PGs in the NBA can be prolific scorers when called upon, and the WNBA is following suit.

On and btw, doubt Ionescu will be the top guard in the US by 2024. You're forgetting about Asia Durr...(another prolific scorer with an incredibly high BB IQ )

 

[NOI33]

Perhaps those 24-27 year old starting PG's in the WNBA should start searching for another country to possibly represent in the 2020 Olympics




Hmmmmmm .... I dunno about that. you are talking about currently better.... or better in 2020?

Parker is toast. The fact still remains that there are 2 players at her position who are better - EDD & Stew.

Nneka will be a fierce competitor. If the Olympics were 2018, she'd easily make it over Wilson. But since it's 2020 ...

So the consensus is that Stewie is better than Parker now? Are we talking about the same Parker? Candace Parker? I would even argue that EDD has not surpassed Parker either. EDD is a better pure shooter, but that's about it...

I would also argue that EDD can't play the "same position" as Parker. Parker can play 3-5, so can Stew. EDD has not shown the ability to defend or play the 5.

 

[CocoHusky]

So the consensus is that Stewie is better than Parker now? Are we talking about the same Parker? Candace Parker? I would even argue that EDD has not surpassed Parker either. EDD is a better pure shooter, but that's about it...
I would also argue that EDD can't play the "same position" as Parker. Parker can play 3-5, so can Stew. EDD has not shown the ability to defend or play the 5.

Consensus is that Stewie and EDD were on the last Olympic team and CP was not. Wait that not consensus, is it?

 

[triaddukefan]

So the consensus is that Stewie is better than Parker now? Are we talking about the same Parker? Candace Parker? I would even argue that EDD has not surpassed Parker either. EDD is a better pure shooter, but that's about it...

.

Yes. That is the consensus... On this board at least

 

[Orangutan]

Well it's useful to me which is why I restated it. I agree that one or more younger guards should be on the 2018 team and I believe will be on the team. Part of the discussion here has looked back on why younger guards weren't on the 2016 Olympic team and these quotes tell us why that didn't happen.

Well, then I guess we're on the same page, mostly. There was some talk of Diggins and Sims but that was the 2014 team that Sims made but Diggins didn't after a career year. I agree that neither should have made it in 2016 when they missed that camp.

At the time, I quibbled with the decision not to take a younger guard in 2016, but in retrospect I think that was fine. At some point, though, you do have to just pick the best young PG available rather than waiting for someone to walk in the door wearing a sash that reads "Point Guard of the Future!"

 

[Shades]

USA BB didn't seen the future point guard in either Vandersloot or Robinson and that decision seems pretty sound to me.

Robinson had an Achilles strain during camp (which she eventually surgically corrected). I wouldn't rule her out just yet.

Briann January could be a candidate.

 

[nwhoopfan]

On and btw, doubt Ionescu will be the top guard in the US by 2024. You're forgetting about Asia Durr...(another prolific scorer with an incredibly high BB IQ )

That was sort of tongue in cheek on my part. Ionescu may be equally comfortable playing the 1 or the 2. Hopefully it's not heresy to say I see some similarities between her and Taurasi. Similar size, not exceptional athletes but very smooth and good body control, can get in the lane and get their shots despite not having blazing speed, can be playmakers or scorers. I don't think Ionescu shot a great percentage behind the arc last year but she can certainly hit them. She has a high bball IQ. I keep coming back to the fact she had 3 triple doubles as a freshman. I don't recall anybody ever doing that before. Many players don't have that many during their entire college career. She hit a few game winning shots last year, too. Just a baller. Confident and competitive, too. There will only be one D, but Ionescu will be very interesting to watch as she develops.

 

[UConnCat]

A couple of additional thoughts on Team USA and point guards. The team will be heading in to a World Cup in which the host nation, Spain, has a pretty good team. In addition, Team USA will have a new head coach who is not known for her ability to coach dynamic offense. My guess is that Dawn will not want to head in to her first tournament as head coach without at least one point guard with experience on that stage, which is a whole different level of pressure. Although I agree it's time to identify who the next point guard(s) will be, Dawn will want someone who can steady the ship.

 

[CocoHusky]

A couple of additional thoughts on Team USA and point guards. The team will be heading in to a World Cup in which the host nation, Spain, has a pretty good team. In addition, Team USA will have a new head coach who is not known for her ability to coach dynamic offense. My guess is that Dawn will not want to head in to her first tournament as head coach without at least one point guard with experience on that stage, which is a whole different level of pressure. Although I agree it's time to identify who the next point guard(s) will be, Dawn will want someone who can steady the ship.

Interesting....do you believe that USA basketball would prioritize World Cup over the Olympics? In other words add guard(s) to World Cup team take your lumps and be ready (better) in 2 years.

 

[UConnCat]

Interesting....do you believe that USA basketball would prioritize World Cup over the Olympics? In other words add guard(s) to World Cup team take your lumps and be ready (better) in 2 years.

How would what your suggestion prioritize the World Cup over the Olympics? Your suggestion -- adding guards to the World Cup and taking lumps to be better in 2 years -- would in fact prioritize winning at the Olympics, no?

USA Basketball, at least on the women's side, treats the World Cup and Olympics equally even though the Olympics is obviously the more glamorous and publicized event and brings added pressure. That's why you rarely see the core, elite female players skip the World Cup (formerly World Championships) without a good reason. I don't believe Bird or Taurasi ever missed a World Championship and Catching missed one in 2014 because of injury. Having said that, I do think the World Cup is probably a better tournament to get a young guard or two acclimated to playing on that International stage. Team USA will add young guards for the 2018 World Cup because it's time, perhaps past time.

Just one final thought on my earlier post, I think Sue Bird will play in 2018 if she's healthy and playing well and USA Basketball asks her to play. That's what Sue said in the ESPN story that started this thread. I can see a scenario in which Dawn asks her to play for the reasons I stated in my previous post. The same could be true for Diana.

 

[Shades]

That was sort of tongue in cheek on my part. Ionescu may be equally comfortable playing the 1 or the 2. Hopefully it's not heresy to say I see some similarities between her and Taurasi. Similar size, not exceptional athletes but very smooth and good body control, can get in the lane and get their shots despite not having blazing speed, can be playmakers or scorers. I don't think Ionescu shot a great percentage behind the arc last year but she can certainly hit them. She has a high bball IQ. I keep coming back to the fact she had 3 triple doubles as a freshman. I don't recall anybody ever doing that before. Many players don't have that many during their entire college career. She hit a few game winning shots last year, too. Just a baller. Confident and competitive, too. There will only be one D, but Ionescu will be very interesting to watch as she develops.

Love Ionescu, and not sure why she's being compared to Durr.
Durr is a straight up SG, while Ionescu is a triple double machine.

 

[MilfordHusky]

A couple of additional thoughts on Team USA and point guards. The team will be heading in to a World Cup in which the host nation, Spain, has a pretty good team. In addition, Team USA will have a new head coach who is not known for her ability to coach dynamic offense. My guess is that Dawn will not want to head in to her first tournament as head coach without at least one point guard with experience on that stage, which is a whole different level of pressure. Although I agree it's time to identify who the next point guard(s) will be, Dawn will want someone who can steady the ship.

As you recall, there were folks on the BY who wrote that the Spanish guards were too good for the U.S. and they would kill our guards in 2014. That didn't pan out, but Spain played a good championship game, with the margin of victory roughly equal to Maya's early scoring spurt. I think they played us even for the last 30 minutes. I wouldn't want to have a replay of that game in Spain. The noise in the arena for the Turkish team was deafening. It would be easy for a young player to get rattled in a situation like that.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Robinson had an Achilles strain during camp (which she eventually surgically corrected). I wouldn't rule her out just yet.

Briann January could be a candidate.

Briann is tough. I like her. She's not Sue Bird, but I think she should get a look.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Love Ionescu, and not sure why she's being compared to Durr.
Durr is a straight up SG, while Ionescu is a triple double machine.

Yes, but Ionescu dominates the ball. That works well with a mid-level Oregon team, but I don't think it's feasible at the highest level.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Yes, but Ionescu dominates the ball. That works well with a mid-level Oregon team, but I don't think it's feasible at the highest level.

I don't see her that way at all. Cazorla had the ball in her hands about as much as Ionescu did. They were basically both PG.

 

[UcMiami]

Robinson had an Achilles strain during camp (which she eventually surgically corrected). I wouldn't rule her out just yet.

Briann January could be a candidate.

One of the things I found very interesting I think in the lead up to the Olympics was an interview with Carol where she talked about the evaluation process of players for the pool and how much USA basketball followed the international play of the USA players - one of the positives she cited for Robinson was how she was leading her Euro team to great success.
Given that interest in not just WNBA production but also foreign play, I think Diggins lack of international play was a serious negative in her effort to make the team - add in then being missing from the camp due to injury ...

 

[Trappa]

One of the things I found very interesting I think in the lead up to the Olympics was an interview with Carol where she talked about the evaluation process of players for the pool and how much USA basketball followed the international play of the USA players - one of the positives she cited for Robinson was how she was leading her Euro team to great success.
Given that interest in not just WNBA production but also foreign play, I think Diggins lack of international play was a serious negative in her effort to make the team - add in then being missing from the camp due to injury ...

That's an interesting tidbit. I'd be interested in just how they use international play as a measure. You really can't compare Euroleague teams to the Chinese league, for example; the talent level is drastically different and the demands on foreign players different as well.

 

[UcMiami]

That's an interesting tidbit. I'd be interested in just how they use international play as a measure. You really can't compare Euroleague teams to the Chinese league, for example; the talent level is drastically different and the demands on foreign players different as well.

Specific to Robinson it was the leadership and success that they were commenting on - she was playing on a pathetic Stars team in the WNBA so it was another window on how she could do with a team that won one of the Euro titles under her stewardship.