Stricklen Injury

[easttexastrash]

Holdsclaw would have been a great pro if not for her issues with depression. She was the anchor for 3 NC's for TN and basically the greatest player of the 90's. IMO a mentally healthy Holdsclaw would today be regarded right alongside Catchings, Bird, Parker and Taurasi as the best of the best in recent times. Maya will be among that group in a few years as well.

I agree. Holdsclaw was spectacular in college. But not having Pat and her grandmother were too much for her to overcome considering she struggled with depression. For those who haven't struggled with clinical depression, it may be hard to relate to the impact it can have.

Holdsclaw was my favorite player ever until Griner hit the court at Baylor. I wish she had had the opportunity to play out her career with the joy that many other of the great players have been able to.

 

[HuskyNan]

They are both seniors and I guess if she were capable of performing at that level then she would.

Surely as educated fans, you guys know that stepping it up a notch against high caliber talent is what defines you, not how you perform against the patsies where you get to bump up your averages.

You're focusing on scoring. Tiff averaged 5.5 assists vs Stanford and Baylor, up from her season average of 3.5, likewise her rebounds vs Stanford were better than her 5.4 rpg
average. Geno is forever saying that when a player is having trouble scoring she needs to find another way to contribute and that's exactly what Tiff did.

 

[easttexastrash]

You're focusing on scoring. Tiff averaged 5.5 assists vs Stanford and Baylor, up from her season average of 3.5, likewise her rebounds vs Stanford were better than her 5.4 rpg
average. Geno is forever saying that when a player is having trouble scoring she needs to find another way to contribute and that's exactly what Tiff did.

The differential between Stricklen's points and Hays' assists still put Stricklen way ahead of Hays in the scoring impact differential (12 against Stanford and 9 against Baylor).

I am not saying that Hays is not a good player, but I just can't put her on the same level as Stricklen. Stricklen is the best player on the Tennesse team and I would say that Hays is the 3rd or 4th best player on the UCONN team.

But, this is probably not the best forum to debate that a UT player is better than a UCONN player. (-;

 

[doggydaddy]

Let's compare the stats vs the two common top 4 teams as top tier talent is really the only way to compare the two. I allow the stats to be analyzed for what they are worth.

Stanford
Stricklen: 27 points, 2 assists, 3 rebounds, 3 TOs
Hayes: 9 points, 6 assists, 13 rebounds, 1 TO

Baylor
Stricklen: 25 points, 12 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 TO
Hayes: 10 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 TO

Hayes is typically good for about 10 points a game against higher quality teams. She had 10 points and 5 rebounds against ND. Stricklen had 22 and 9 against Rutgers, but had Hayes-like numbers against Kentucky, with 11 and 5.

You are cherry picking games, and to tell you the truth, it's a little annnoying.

These two players have had great games against top teams and poor games against top teams. You have to look at the entire body of work to be fair.

 

[easttexastrash]

You are cherry picking games, and to tell you the truth, it's a little annnoying.

These two players have had great games against top teams and poor games against top teams. You have to look at the entire body of work to be fair.

I am talking about how you perform against the top teams. All of the teams I mentioned are top 10 teams.

Stricklen performs better than Hays does against top talent. That is what I am basing my opinion on. It may irritate you, but that is how I judge which player is better. And I highly suspect that the WNBA scouts do the same. They don't give to poops about how well you perform against Farileigh Dickinson and Holy Cross.

 

[doggydaddy]

quote="easttexastrash, post: 134868, member: 1706"]I am talking about how you perform against the top teams. All of the teams I mentioned are top 10 teams.

Stricklen performs better than Hays does against top talent. That is what I am basing my opinion on. It may irritate you, but that is how I judge which player is better. And I highly suspect that the WNBA scouts do the same. They don't give to poops about how well you perform against Farileigh Dickinson and Holy Cross.[/quote]

Last year against #3 Baylor - 34 minutes, 1-9 from the field. 2 points. 6 TO's.
Last year against #12 Gtown - 9 points. 7 TO's.
Two years ago against #2 Stanford - 8 points, 2 rebounds, 4 TO's.
Two years ago against #8 Georgia - 6 points, 2 rebounds, 7 TO's.

You can find bad games against top teams for both players. These were all Stricklens.

I didn't even say who I thought was better, just that your way of determining that is short sighted.

I've seen every game that Hayes has played and probably 30-40 games that Stricklen has played. I like some things about Stricklen and some things about Hayes. It's not so cut and dry who is better.

 

[easttexastrash]

quote="easttexastrash, post: 134868, member: 1706"]I am talking about how you perform against the top teams. All of the teams I mentioned are top 10 teams.

Stricklen performs better than Hays does against top talent. That is what I am basing my opinion on. It may irritate you, but that is how I judge which player is better. And I highly suspect that the WNBA scouts do the same. They don't give to poops about how well you perform against Farileigh Dickinson and Holy Cross.

Last year against #3 Baylor - 34 minutes, 1-9 from the field. 2 points. 6 TO's.
Last year against #12 Gtown - 9 points. 7 TO's.
Two years ago against #2 Stanford - 8 points, 2 rebounds, 4 TO's.
Two years ago against #8 Georgia - 6 points, 2 rebounds, 7 TO's.

You can find bad games against top teams for both players. These were all Stricklens.

I didn't even say who I thought was better, just that your way of determining that is short sighted.

I've seen every game that Hayes has played and probably 30-40 games that Stricklen has played. I like some things about Stricklen and some things about Hayes. It's not so cut and dry who is better.[/quote]

Last year and two years ago? Really? Let's stay current. I am saying that at this point in their careers, Stricklen is better. But, opinions are like holes and bows.

 

[magical2]

Stricklen is not really even close to Nneka. Stricklen and Tiff are very similar in their stats, playing time, etc. aside from Parker, Catch, and to a lesser extent Lawson and Anosike, name a single former Tennessee player who's truly excelled at the next level. Hornbuckle, Jackson, Robinson, Ely, Bjorkland, Moore, and Fuller were all top 5 kids coming out of high school who all had decent to very good careers at Tennessee. for the most part, those who made it to the WNBA, not one is a consistent starter nor putting up big #'s in the W.

i'm not saying Stricklen will end up like most of those kids - role playes on whatever WNBA team takes them, but Strick's numbers are no

To you...to me, it's Kelly Faris :0)

well clearly we disagree. Stricklen has had 4 years to "prove" herself and her numbers are simply not any better than Tiff's. additionally, IIRC, even fans on the Summitt have questioned her heart and effort in some of their losses (i believe it was the last game to Kentucky where several bemoaned that only Glory and Vicki showed up and called out Stricklen). i have only seen a few tennessee games so i don't nearly have the comparison numbers that someone who's watched every game has, but per minute production, Tiff has better numbers in every single category with the exception of rebounds/game where the per 40 minute totals are 7.7 vs. 7.4.

Shekinna averages 33 minutes per game vs. 29 for Tiff. not a huge difference, but once you average in the production per minute, Tiff is better in points, assists, steals, and her assist/TO ratio is much better. so it seems the belief that somehow Shekinna is having a much better year than Tiff is completely false. it's simply a fact. now you can argue that she has more potential or something, but after 3.5 years of college, you'd think she'd somehow be achieving some of that potential. it's simply a myth that some people seem to want to perpetuate and i don't really get the reason for it.

so if you are going to say Stick is "miles" ahead of Tiff, the stats show completely the opposite. i guess you have some super secret knowledge up your sleeve that no one else does. i am constantly amazed at how little credit UCONN fans give Tiff. it's unfortunate she gets so much criticism and so little praise, relatively speaking.

better than Tiff's. she will probably go higher than Tiff in the draft, but there are about 5-6 kids i think will go ahead of her.

having said that, i HATE reading about injuries to players. Williams, Spani and now Stricklen. it remains to be seen how serious it is and how soon she can come back.

 

[doggydaddy]

Last year against #3 Baylor - 34 minutes, 1-9 from the field. 2 points. 6 TO's.
Last year against #12 Gtown - 9 points. 7 TO's.
Two years ago against #2 Stanford - 8 points, 2 rebounds, 4 TO's.
Two years ago against #8 Georgia - 6 points, 2 rebounds, 7 TO's.

You can find bad games against top teams for both players. These were all Stricklens.

I didn't even say who I thought was better, just that your way of determining that is short sighted.

I've seen every game that Hayes has played and probably 30-40 games that Stricklen has played. I like some things about Stricklen and some things about Hayes. It's not so cut and dry who is better.

Last year and two years ago? Really? Let's stay current. I am saying that at this point in their careers, Stricklen is better. But, opinions are like holes and bows.[/quote]

Are you seriously trying to discount games played only one year ago? Wow...ancient history...!

Ok....I guess you missed the Kentucy game. You know, the game Tennessee just lost?

3-12 shooting. 1-4 on 3's. 5 TO's.

And you are also dismissing Hayes excellent game other than shooting percentage against Stanford this year. 13 rebounds, 6 assists and only 1 TO is a very good game.

They both have great games against top teams and bad games against top teams. That is why you have to look at the entire body of work. And more than this year as well.

As I'm sure the scouts do.

 

[magical2]

well clearly we disagree. Stricklen has had 4 years to "prove" herself and her numbers are simply not any better than Tiff's. additionally, IIRC, even fans on the Summitt have questioned her heart and effort in some of their losses (i believe it was the last game to Kentucky where several bemoaned that only Glory and Vicki showed up and called out Stricklen). i have only seen a few tennessee games so i don't nearly have the comparison numbers that someone who's watched every game has, but per minute production, Tiff has better numbers in every single category with the exception of rebounds/game where the per 40 minute totals are 7.7 vs. 7.4.

Shekinna averages 33 minutes per game vs. 29 for Tiff. not a huge difference, but once you average in the production per minute, Tiff is better in points, assists, steals, and her assist/TO ratio is much better. so it seems the belief that somehow Shekinna is having a much better year than Tiff is completely false. it's simply a fact. now you can argue that she has more potential or something, but after 3.5 years of college, you'd think she'd somehow be achieving some of that potential. it's simply a myth that some people seem to want to perpetuate and i don't really get the reason for it.

so if you are going to say Stick is "miles" ahead of Tiff, the stats show completely the opposite. i guess you have some super secret knowledge up your sleeve that no one else does. i am constantly amazed at how little credit UCONN fans give Tiff. it's unfortunate she gets so much criticism and so little praise, relatively speaking.

There is no new news about Stricklen! After the game she was saying that initial reports were not indicating ACL,but tests are being done today so we should know soon. I have seen a # of TN games and also CT games! To be honest it has appeared to me that despite stats Strickin has appeared to be better than Hayes and what I have read she is going to be ist team AA unless this injury is more serious! If that is the case all bets are off. It is a consensus right or wrong that Stricklin is the better prospect! In games I have seen That had appeared to be the case! Different styles of play for the 2 teams is a consideration!
I do hope it is not an ACL if so OH MY for TN They play ND at ND soon and with Stricklin or w/o I would bet on ND. TN moved down to #9 with 4 losses and a loss to ND would be 5! To be honest prior to the KY game which I had post on a while back I thought KY had a great chance to win at home! They blew an 11 point lead in the 2nd half and then KY

 

[jsloanjr]

I pray for a speedy recovery and she is able to come back soon.........

 

[Replicant]

well clearly we disagree. Stricklen has had 4 years to "prove" herself and her numbers are simply not any better than Tiff's. additionally, IIRC, even fans on the Summitt have questioned her heart and effort in some of their losses (i believe it was the last game to Kentucky where several bemoaned that only Glory and Vicki showed up and called out Stricklen). i have only seen a few tennessee games so i don't nearly have the comparison numbers that someone who's watched every game has, but per minute production, Tiff has better numbers in every single category with the exception of rebounds/game where the per 40 minute totals are 7.7 vs. 7.4.

Shekinna averages 33 minutes per game vs. 29 for Tiff. not a huge difference, but once you average in the production per minute, Tiff is better in points, assists, steals, and her assist/TO ratio is much better. so it seems the belief that somehow Shekinna is having a much better year than Tiff is completely false. it's simply a fact. now you can argue that she has more potential or something, but after 3.5 years of college, you'd think she'd somehow be achieving some of that potential. it's simply a myth that some people seem to want to perpetuate and i don't really get the reason for it.

so if you are going to say Stick is "miles" ahead of Tiff, the stats show completely the opposite. i guess you have some super secret knowledge up your sleeve that no one else does. i am constantly amazed at how little credit UCONN fans give Tiff. it's unfortunate she gets so much criticism and so little praise, relatively speaking.

Only metrics you left out, are probably the two most important:

• Tiff's W-L record 128-4, with (2) NCAA Championships.
• Skekinna's W-L record 101-22, with (0) NCAA Championships

Obviously bball is a team sport, but both ladies have played significant minutes beginning with their respective freshmen seasons and started all games from their sophomore seasons to present. They've both been key contributors throughout, regardless of similar up-and-down performances. But Tiff boasts nearly an entire season's more victories with (27)!

 

[magical2]

Any updates on this? Never good to see a player carried into the locker room. This would be devastating for Tennessee if she is out for a long stretch. She is undoubtedly the glue for that team.

I am not sure that I would not take her over Nneka with the first pick in the draft. I think that Stricklen will play better in the WNBA than Nneka because she is almost as tall, can handle the ball, can take it to the hole, has a nice pull-up jumper and can shoot the 3. I think she is the most well-rounded player in college basketball.

 

[magical2]

e games so i don't nearly have the comparison numbers that someone who's watched every game has, but per minute production, Tiff has better numbers in every single category with the exception of rebounds/game where the per 40 minute totals are 7.7 vs. 7.4.

Shekinna averages 33 minutes per game vs. 29 for Tiff. not a huge difference, but once you average in the production per minute, Tiff is better in points, assists, steals, and her assist/TO ratio is much better. so it seems the belief that somehow Shekinna is having a much better year than Tiff is completely false. it's simply a fact. now you can argue that she has more potential or something, but after 3.5 years of college, you'd think she'd somehow be achieving some of that potential. it's simply a myth that some people seem to want to perpetuate and i don't really get the reason for it.

so if you are going to say Stick is "miles" ahead of Tiff, the stats show completely the opposite. i guess you have some super secret knowledge up your sleeve that no one else does. i am constantly amazed at how little credit UCONN fans give Tiff. it's unfortunate she gets so much criticism and so little praise, relatively speaking.[/quote]
There is no new news about Stricklen! After the game she was saying that initial reports were not indicating ACL,but tests are being done today so we should know soon. I have seen a # of TN games and also CT games! To be honest it has appeared to me that despite stats Strickin has appeared to be better than Hayes and what I have read she is going to be ist team AA unless this injury is more serious! If that is the case all bets are off. It is a consensus right or wrong that Stricklin is the better prospect! In games I have seen That had appeared to be the case! Different styles of play for the 2 teams is a consideration!
I do hope it is not an ACL if so OH MY for TN They play ND at ND soon and with Stricklin or w/o I would bet on ND. TN moved down to #9 with 4 losses and a loss to ND would be 5! To be honest prior to the KY game which I had post on a while back I thought KY had a great chance to win at home! They blew an 11 point lead in the 2nd half and then KY did what they had done a cpl of weeks ago against KY and were down by 3 with less then a min to play! KY scored,Tn had the ball and the clock,but got a charging foul and this allowed KY to get th ball and allow the winning basket with 4 seconds left! Amazed me that Kamika got the ball and drove all the way and got a shot off that could have gone in! Props to her for getting back so quickly I had said there is no way she comes back this year,my mistake.
I also saw the games coming up and thought KY and ND would be losses! TN is a team in trouble with injuries. If Taber is out for a month,Stricklin is out,Kamika vunerable with recovering ACL things could get ugly! Id Stricklin,Taber come back and Kamika stays healthy they may still win the Overated SEC!
The on the road games can be tough for any team with 3 losses by TN on the road and the home loss to Baylor. If they do get healthy they remain an enigma with a chance to win the SEC and the SEC tournament and get that 2 seed! The top SEC teams are not great! I do not see IF Strickin,Taber,and Ksmika are healthy and Baugh does not get hurt they could be dangerous or they could implode. They are short players in the guard positions and can have anyone else out! I cannot see them competing with ND at ND,but health of players and play on the road will tell alot. If they have healthy players when they play KY at home We could see a 2o point win bt TN! If injuries cont and Stricklin injury is serious OH MY! A good question on their board was made about the amount of play for Stricklin in the blow outs!
We shall see what happens. It had not occured to me of Hayes being on the same level until your post!
I will be paying more attention to the play of both,if Stricklin is ok! I hate serious injuries and would hate to see Striclin end her career this way! I am always praying for no injuries for us. My earlier post which I rememember in which you were questioning the entire SEC will be trsted and I think you are correct! I think a healthy TN is the best team in the SEC remove Stricklin,Taber and anyone else my statements a # of times of their being in a position where injuries could could destroy them,
There has been the thoughts that this is a troubled team. Commented before.
Wow maybe thrst time I managed to cut and paste w/o my wife Val helping! I tried to edit my earlier post,bit was told I went over the 30 min mark!

 

[alexrgct]

Put Stricklen in Geno's offensive system, and she'd be a monster. Put Tiff in a program where the scoring has centered around individual play rather than team offense, and she'd struggle mightily.

 

[magical2]

To you...to me, it's Kelly Faris :0)

Bruin I love when someone mentions,praises,indicates how good and still to the degree she gets over looked
This kid is so much better than so many give her credit for. Everyone looks at points! Well this year,not only are her points up,but
just off the cuffs she leads in ASSTS,Steals,Assts/TO ratio and she is glue

 

[magical2]

don't necessarily disagree Alex, but i think Stricklen is not in the same league as Nneka any more than Tiff Hayes is. i actually think Johnson has more potential than Stricklen in the WNBA. but time certainly will tell. my point is not to pick on Shekinna, especially since she's injured. it's to stop the crazy assertions that she's in the same league as Nneka, any more than Tiff is.

And yes, Nan, Snow is another one who's had a pretty decent career. as has Zolman (Crossley) when she's not been injured. but how many of those top 5 tennessee players have been consistent all stars or starters for their respective teams?

Johnson is a monster with ehr scoring and rebounding

 

[Husky68]

Not sure where the SS is waaaaaaaaaay better than Tiff comes from or how WNBA success defines how good you are in college. AB and Jessica Moore have/had much longer runs in the WNBA than Ann Strother or Barb Turner but don't think they were necessarily better college players.

Tiff is much faster than SS, at least seems like it both with and withoug the ball. Very important in playing wing/guard. Would argue that SS is better inside than Tiff (meaning as inside offensive player, not necessarily driving to get inside).

Looked at this season and last season stats and surprised how this years stats favor Tiff over SS and how SS stats have decreased vs. last year. Didn't cherry pick games, just overall stats. SS is shooting worse from field (both 2's and 3's), less rebounds per game and last year she had a better than 1/1 assist to turnover ratio and this year it is about .8. Could be that stats get better this year once she gets further into the weak SEC schedule.

Tiff this year is shooting better from field 53% vs. 44%, better from 3 38% to 35%, 1 less rebound per game and has an a/t ration of 1.8 to SS of .8. SS shoots a lot more and averages about a point per game more than Tiff (maybe relied on more for scoring). Tiff has more steals which may be partly a function of more pressing defense. Both play on top 10 teams, both play in BCS conferences, both have all conference level teammates.

My eye test likes SS, gets concerned at her speed and defense (thought she looked like she was going to suck up all the oxygen in the gym during one time out against Kentucky), and a bit of inconsistent play withing games and not stepping up to win big games (Tenn has already lost 4 games, even to Virginia where SS was 0-6 from 3's and 1 assist to 4 to's). Experts are calling SS an All American 1st team type player. Not really sure Tiff is there, but at same time not so sure SS is there either.

As far as intangibles, one of the few things know about SS is that Pat Summit picked her as a team captain last year and after the failures last season specifically picked team captains for this year that excluded her. Not sure what that meant but don't think it was an endorsement of SS as a leader, and leadership is an important aspect of basketball skills.

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Let's just pray that she is ok and can play, after seeing Nykesha, Shea and Svet suffer from career ending injuries I hope she will be ok.

 

[Justavisitor]

It would be interesting to see how the stats compare between SS and Tiff vs. top 10 teams. Has anyone done the math?

 

[magical2]

Any updates on this? Never good to see a player carried into the locker room. This would be devastating for Tennessee if she is out for a long stretch. She is undoubtedly the glue for that team.

I am not sure that I would not take her over Nneka with the first pick in the draft. I think that Stricklen will play better in the WNBA than Nneka because she is almost as tall, can handle the ball, can take it to the hole, has a nice pull-up jumper and can shoot the 3. I think she is the most well-rounded player in college basketball.

I guess the issue of Striclin's health is resolved! Unless my computer is screwed up it says they played Vandibilt and bet them hadily!
Strickin had 2 0 points and again 35 mins! Gloria another double double 16 pts 13 rbs in 33 mins! In a blow out 4 starters 30 or more mins Baugh 16 pts in 22 mins Msnning 19 mins Simmons 30 mins 4-13 10 points junk mins Bass 12 mins Kamika 5 Burdick4 Harrison4

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Magical, the injury occurred near the end of the Vandy game.

 

[magical2]

It would be interesting to see how the stats compare between SS and Tiff vs. top 10 teams. Has anyone done the math?

Stricklin Hayes

 

[magical2]

Magical, the injury occurred near the end of the Vandy game.

CT I realized that as I'm watching our game I had thought she strained knee was against TX Duh I missed yesterday events
Paul It is weird because I thought I heard about it on Sun It may be I just screwed up although these kind of things have happened
as a part of my life since I was a kid! So it is a "normal" event though I do not know whether on this one I just got it wrong
but thanks Ira

 

[Rayvin56]

Love your avatar!

Entitled 'Connecticut Gothic', of course...