Stop Attributing The Success Of Women Olympians To Men

[Sargassoc]

It's hard to imagine this happening in the same way with either: a) UConn WBB; or B) the Olympic WBB team, but the Chicago Tribune tweet is especially galling: LINK HERE

 

[Aluminny69]

So, Geno is not responsible for the success of UConn women?

 

[Kibitzer]

So, Geno is not responsible for the success of UConn women?

No.

 

[Sargassoc]

So, Geno is not responsible for the success of UConn women?

I think that's a logical fallacy (False Dilemma). Geno is greatly responsible for the program's current success. The women who play, work hard, and do (in great measure) what he tells them to do are also responsible for its success.

In post-game interviews, it seems that Geno believes that the women themselves are responsible for their successes (and failures).

 

[RockyMTblue2]

There is incredible physical talent and mental fortitude and control in both men and women athletes. Where each individual athlete finds the reserves to push through to world class, well, that is up to each and a personal, private thing. When talking heads speak their own words they mostly get it wrong. The NBC crew is doing an really third class job with these Olympics and the commercialism/ commercials per half hour are through the roof. Time to push both - NBC and the "Modern Era $$ Olympics" off the cliff. This was NBC's desperation move to get back into the sports media stream and it is not going well.

 

[Sargassoc]

The NBC crew is doing an really third class job with these Olympics and the commercialism/ commercials per half hour are through the roof. Time to push both - NBC and the "Modern Era $$ Olympics" off the cliff. This was NBC's desperation move to get back into the sports media stream and it is not going well.

It's actually why I now refuse to watch US coverage. I never knew how awful it was until 1994, when I traveled to London during the winter Olympics. I was amazed (and delighted) to find that their coverage was actual coverage: they showed each event or game without sentimental back-stories ("She's never been the same since her father had a heart attack driving her to practice" or "He almost lost that hand in a fireworks accident when he was 10-- here's the story"). They didn't keep a running commentary on tangential stories and they surely didn't provide constant cut-away coverage. And remember: that was the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan year. I did NOT miss that at all (and yes, I understood that this was an American story, but it was also an international story).

I've heard that with a good VPN, a person could spoof her IP address and watch streaming Canadian or British coverage. Just something I've heard, of course.

 

[EricLA]

There is incredible physical talent and mental fortitude and control in both men and women athletes. Where each individual athlete finds the reserves to push through to world class, well, that is up to each and a personal, private thing. When talking heads speak their own words they mostly get it wrong. The NBC crew is doing an really third class job with these Olympics and the commercialism/ commercials per half hour are through the roof. Time to push both - NBC and the "Modern Era $$ Olympics" off the cliff. This was NBC's desperation move to get back into the sports media stream and it is not going well.

I basically tape the games. I have Time Warner Cable and there are about 6 Olympic channels. I have identified events i want to watch and set my DVR to record them. That way I can avoid commercials.

For the most part, I'm enjoying the games so much I'm not really focusing on all the apparently controversial statements coming out by the announcers. I had no issue with Hozzou (the Hungarian swimmer) because 4 years ago she wasn't even on the map (well she had a very disappointing London Olympics), but since training with her husband, her success has gone thru the roof. There have been some comments about his being abusive, but that's a whole separate issue...

 

[Deadrody]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a Chicago paper, merely stating the local connection to an Olympian (wife of CHICAGO Bears lineman) is not attributing her success to anything.

Good lord. Go find your safe space where you aren't terrorized by such a meek micro aggression. You could have saved yourself the anguish by just looking at the source. Admittedly, it would only have been worse if it were posted at Jezebel.com.

 

[Sargassoc]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a Chicago paper, merely stating the local connection to an Olympian (wife of CHICAGO Bears lineman) is not attributing her success to anything.

Good lord. Go find your safe space where you aren't terrorized by such a meek micro aggression. You could have saved yourself the anguish by just looking at the source. Admittedly, it would only have been worse if it were posted at Jezebel.com.

Bye, Felipe.

 

[Deadrody]

Bye, Felipe.

Quite a witty retort. If you were actually interested, rather than just echoing the clueless outrage du jour, you'd see that the offending tweet includes a link to the full article about her. Then, the Tribune added another tweet, with her name, literally EIGHT tweets later.

The Chicago Tribune, such a vast wasteland of sexism and misogyny. Staffed by evil interns since 1850.

This is exactly why Twitter needs to be destroyed. Now that Gawker is toast, maybe Peter Thiel can turn his attention to this waste of space.

UPDATE: So here's some more "information" for peddlers or consumers of the daily outrage. Guess how many tweets TOTAL for US medals from the Tribune twitter feed ? I count 7. Silver ? Zero. Gold ? 6. Bronze ? ONE. Hometown girl.

I bet you'll all feel good about yourself and your virtue signalling when someone at the Tribune gets fired for this idiocy.

 

[Husky pride]

It really interesting how many of us delight in every UCONN Women basketball winning performance, but tend to get defensive when articles, such as this one, decry the lack of appreciation for women's sports achievements. We all know great coaching is essential and our Geno is one great coach. We all, however, have to agree that coaches can't play on the court and that it's up to the athletes, with knowledge gained and with their OWN athleticism, that, in the end, win games.
For those of us who have witnessed the male wackos who post remarks that won't even acknowledge women's basketball as a legitimate sport worth watching or have witnessed ( as Stewie so well stated) the generally inferior media coverage given to women's sports....it comes as little surprise that there is some legitimate, well-founded sensitivity to this issue.

 

[Big Fan]

The men's team is hard to watch. The fouls, no plays - defense and offense based souly on their superior athletic ability. It's just one on one. I don't watch the NBA - now I know why. I can'ttell you how much I'm enjoying seeing Sue and DT play together - maybe for the last time. The USA teams plays O and D like a UConn team - no suprise there. Geno would not have it any other way. They are a delight to watch! BTW I love watching EDD play in his system. I am happy she made her choice and that she is happy. I can't as a fan keep thinking in a fantasy land dream what she would have done on the basketball court playing at UConn. We'll have to get an NCAA WBBall X Box game and find out. Her first Olympics like Stewie - she says she likes coming off the bench because she can watch and learn the international game. Tough call for a coach when she's your 6th or 7th player. I'm sure most coaches would love that problem.

 

[Wally East]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a Chicago paper, merely stating the local connection to an Olympian (wife of CHICAGO Bears lineman) is not attributing her success to anything.

You'll have a point when we see a headline like this:

"Husband of Olympic medalist grabs game-winning interception!"

(Also, if the Chicago Bear is local, that makes his wife local.)

 

[meyers7]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a Chicago paper, merely stating the local connection to an Olympian (wife of CHICAGO Bears lineman) is not attributing her success to anything.

Good lord. Go find your safe space where you aren't terrorized by such a meek micro aggression. You could have saved yourself the anguish by just looking at the source. Admittedly, it would only have been worse if it were posted at Jezebel.com.

 

[UcMiami]

I am a guy, and I have watched some of the Olympics without ever noticing anything along this line. Just as I go through life not noticing that sometimes I get treated differently because I am white. We can all get overly 'PC' or get aggressively anti-PC, but what is happening in our current culture and in most of 'western' culture in the recent past and currently is an attempt to identify ways in which subtle biases creep into our conversations and actions and change that. It is not any single statement or action taken by itself but a preponderance of them that is the problem. Looking at single instances can become 'silly' and create shouts of 'get over yourself', 'too PC', etc. and can bring on quotes when the same 'problem' language or action was used referring to men or people of color or a different religion - but that is not the point, it is the repeated instances over time that create the issue.

So ... while watching the Olympic coverage yesterday after reading this that I began to notice how frequently great female athletes were 'learning' their skill from men. There was no single instance of commentary that was 'out of line', but it was just this preponderance of utterances that I began to notice, culminating in Walsh, a three time Olympic gold medalist, who with a new partner in this Olympics has switched sides of the court and relied on a man to teach her the subtleties. So, yes, I think there is a problem.

It is interesting to note that our laws are beginning to change is a very subtle way as well - harassment of any kind including sexual harassment in the work place and creating a 'hostile work environment' is now being defined more broadly in terms of the 'perception' by the 'victim' rather than by the intent of management or the harasser. It creates a much grayer area in the law, but it is trying to recognize exactly the kinds of issues that are being brought up here. And the issues discussed here are related to a broader discussion of subtleties in classrooms and businesses.

I thought the President published an interesting article that speaks to some of this: Exclusive: President Barack Obama Says, "This Is What a Feminist Looks Like"
(I don't think this is political, so I hope the citation passes muster on the board.)

 

[kat0189]

Breaking: many Olympic broadcasters are terrible at it

 

[CajunHusky]

So, Geno is not responsible for the success of UConn women?

over a 30 year period he has built an extraordinary program..... but it couldn't have done it without CD and his assistant coaches and Rosemary; and the support of the AD and the University president .... or Title IX for that matter.

And they couldn't have done it without an extraordinary group of women athletes.

So who is responsible? the university is responsible for the program, that is Geno and CD and staff and AD and admin.

but each individual team and the athletes get the credit for buying in, working hard to be the best they can be, athletically and academically .... and making an impact with their teammates and in their community.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I think that's a logical fallacy (False Dilemma). Geno is greatly responsible for the program's current success. The women who play, work hard, and do (in great measure) what he tells them to do are also responsible for its success.

In post-game interviews, it seems that Geno believes that the women themselves are responsible for their successes (and failures).

GENO as a great coach knows that once his team hits the floor it is they who determine whether the game is won or lost--ALMOST.
It would be naive to think that the Coach has nothing to do with a teams ability to win or lose (Men or Women ). We have seen great coaches whose time outs at the exact right time, with new directions given, that determined the outcome of games. Lou Holtz in football was a wizard of putting in some unexpected play to win. Geno has has similar injections into games. With the number of wins , Championships be they League, NCAA, USA or Olympic any one who thinks his impact on the outcome of game wasn't significant just isn't watching the games.

 

[BroadwayVa]

over a 30 year period he has built an extraordinary program..... but it couldn't have done it without CD and his assistant coaches and Rosemary; and the support of the AD and the University president .... or Title IX for that matter.

And they couldn't have done it without an extraordinary group of women athletes.

So who is responsible? the university is responsible for the program, that is Geno and CD and staff and AD and admin.

but each individual team and the athletes get the credit for buying in, working hard to be the best they can be, athletically and academically .... and making an impact with their teammates and in their community.

I understand your posting, really I do, but while Geno's assistants, associate coaches have certain impact and the AD/Admin must provide financial support --in the end it is Geno's ability to recruit and his ability to mold, cajole his players into greatness that makes the difference.
Does anyone really believe that without Geno Uconn Women's BB would have 11 Ncaa championships and 4 trail truck loads of awards?

 

[BroadwayVa]

I am a guy, and I have watched some of the Olympics without ever noticing anything along this line. Just as I go through life not noticing that sometimes I get treated differently because I am white. We can all get overly 'PC' or get aggressively anti-PC, but what is happening in our current culture and in most of 'western' culture in the recent past and currently is an attempt to identify ways in which subtle biases creep into our conversations and actions and change that. It is not any single statement or action taken by itself but a preponderance of them that is the problem. Looking at single instances can become 'silly' and create shouts of 'get over yourself', 'too PC', etc. and can bring on quotes when the same 'problem' language or action was used referring to men or people of color or a different religion - but that is not the point, it is the repeated instances over time that create the issue.

So ... while watching the Olympic coverage yesterday after reading this that I began to notice how frequently great female athletes were 'learning' their skill from men. There was no single instance of commentary that was 'out of line', but it was just this preponderance of utterances that I began to notice, culminating in Walsh, a three time Olympic gold medalist, who with a new partner in this Olympics has switched sides of the court and relied on a man to teach her the subtleties. So, yes, I think there is a problem.

It is interesting to note that our laws are beginning to change is a very subtle way as well - harassment of any kind including sexual harassment in the work place and creating a 'hostile work environment' is now being defined more broadly in terms of the 'perception' by the 'victim' rather than by the intent of management or the harasser. It creates a much grayer area in the law, but it is trying to recognize exactly the kinds of issues that are being brought up here. And the issues discussed here are related to a broader discussion of subtleties in classrooms and businesses.

I thought the President published an interesting article that speaks to some of this: Exclusive: President Barack Obama Says, "This Is What a Feminist Looks Like"
(I don't think this is political, so I hope the citation passes muster on the board.)

Women, really smart women, use those who can provide the best guidance to success--be they men or women. I have a cadre of successful women and their role models have been of both sexes, depending upon the area of expertise. In WBB Geno is the ultimate but along with him are a number of great women's coaches--Muffet comes easily to mind.

 

[CajunHusky]

I understand your posting, really I do, but while Geno's assistants, associate coaches have certain impact and the AD/Admin must provide financial support --in the end it is Geno's ability to recruit and his ability to mold, cajole his players into greatness that makes the difference.
Does anyone really believe that without Geno Uconn Women's BB would have 11 Ncaa championships and 4 trail truck loads of awards?

Certainly Geno is the face of the program, and provided the leadership, the direction the recruiting, the mentoring (and I certainly don't want to minimize the importance of all that); but so do many others in Geno and CD's organization ..... is there some reason why the credit can't be shared with those who so obviously contributed mountains of effort to make the program work so well?

when it comes down to that team picture at the end of the year, it is the athletes out front that are celebrated.

 

[CajunHusky]

GENO as a great coach knows that once his team hits the floor it is they who determine whether the game is won or lost--ALMOST.
It would be naive to think that the Coach has nothing to do with a teams ability to win or lose (Men or Women ). We have seen great coaches whose time outs at the exact right time, with new directions given, that determined the outcome of games. Lou Holtz in football was a wizard of putting in some unexpected play to win. Geno has has similar injections into games. With the number of wins , Championships be they League, NCAA, USA or Olympic any one who thinks his impact on the outcome of game wasn't significant just isn't watching the games.

I must respectfully disagree, as a game coach he is good .... but not among the best. His strengths are in developing the individual and then molding a team.... he is maybe average in managing close games in the last couple of minutes - the loss to Stanford and the three losses to ND in 2013 come to mind. When it gets down to the end of year tournaments he has narrowed his rotations down to 6 or 7 players and he simply doesn't rotate.

I know some might think this blasphemy but I am simply trying to take a critical look overall.

 

[BigBird]

Funny, that when males athletes talk about their successes flowing from values learned from their mothers, nobody blinks.

But generally, I'd agree that sportswriters and broadcasters need to be a little more aware of the contexts of women's sports. Even the good and interesting story about Stewie's dad encouraging her ball handling practice became a little over-emphasized via repetition. I suspect he might even agree.

I am proud of what both my parents gave me, but those things greatly differed. My male and female teachers, same notion. Maybe it's just a case of finding some balance in what and how we communicate about these otherwise positive experiences.

 

[UcMiami]

Women, really smart women, use those who can provide the best guidance to success--be they men or women. I have a cadre of successful women and their role models have been of both sexes, depending upon the area of expertise. In WBB Geno is the ultimate but along with him are a number of great women's coaches--Muffet comes easily to mind.

I am not doubting that, nor disputing those facts - most of us learn important lessons and skills from both genders. What is at dispute is not this process, or the fact that in athletics there is a preponderance of male coaches and support staff, so when citing the coaching an athlete has received there would obviously be more male coaches than female coaches.
The issue is that it appears there is a significant disparity in the 'story' that the announcers use about female medalists vs. male medalists or just competitors - if it is a male, sometimes they talk about the parents, or the wife taking care of the home fires, or the lonely hours of training by himself, or the inspiration provide by a male teammate or previous competitor in the same sport and sometimes it is about the coaching he has received. If it is a female, the story almost always appears to include the coach, or a comparison to or inspiration of a male athlete, or how the husband helps train, or how the father started pushing her career when she was 10.
Each story is likely true, it is just the balance.

One of the nice things with women's basketball is that we are given stories about the inspiration and example set by players like Lisa Leslie, or Dawn Staley, or another of the legends of the women's game. We are lucky that way, but if you watch enough of the other sports it does begin to come out, this imbalance if the 'human interest' drivel that gets on air. (Women's gymnastics is also more balanced because of the iconic figures of the past.)

FYI - I enjoy some of the WNBA publicity with NBA players talking about studying the women's game because they learn more and pick up more fundamental technique that they can use.

 

[CocoHusky]

It's actually why I now refuse to watch US coverage. I never knew how awful it was until 1994, when I traveled to London during the winter Olympics. I was amazed (and delighted) to find that their coverage was actual coverage: they showed each event or game without sentimental back-stories ("She's never been the same since her father had a heart attack driving her to practice" or "He almost lost that hand in a fireworks accident when he was 10-- here's the story"). They didn't keep a running commentary on tangential stories and they surely didn't provide constant cut-away coverage. And remember: that was the Tonya Harding-Nancy Kerrigan year. I did NOT miss that at all (and yes, I understood that this was an American story, but it was also an international story).

I've heard that with a good VPN, a person could spoof her IP address and watch streaming Canadian or British coverage. Just something I've heard, of course.

I personally enjoy the backstories, and have always advocated the mute button for those that do not. In this thread you fail to consider the intent of the tweet and the backstories. In both cases the intent is make the subject more easy to relate to. In the Chicago Tribune wife of Bear's Lineman establishes an immediate relation to a majority of the audience. All sports have down time and filling that down time with back stories is an attempt to retain the attention of the audience. The backstories rarely get in the way of the real sports action and is hardly the annoyance you are pretending it to be.