Still great, but overrated athletes

[Jaydumo20]

A lot like Arian Foster with the Texans, their success wasn’t just because of the system. Their talents aligned with what was needed from that system (a lot like someone of the linemen that played in front of them). For sure they wouldn’t have been as successful elsewhere, but also plenty of other RBs weren’t nearly that successful in those systems either.

Great distinction. I sometimes think about the fate of most of our favorite Huskies had they landed elsewhere. I feel like most NFL legends landed in the right spot, with the exception of Archie Manning and Barry Sanders.

 

[superjohn]

I asked ChatGPT, a non biased source, to outline what would have happened if Jeter and Young switched teams for their entire career.

This is a fascinating hypothetical: swapping Derek Jeter and Michael Young, two elite shortstops of their era, and imagining how their careers might have unfolded had they played for each other’s teams their entire careers. Let’s look at the comparison based on performance, context (team, media, postseason), and legacy, then analyze how the swap might have changed public and professional perception.

Swap Scenario: Jeter on the Rangers, Young on the Yankees

Michael Young as a Career Yankee

Upside:
• Bigger Stage: Playing in New York, Young’s consistent .300+ batting averages would’ve gained far more national attention.
• Postseason Exposure: With the Yankees’ perennial playoff appearances, Young would likely have appeared in 100+ postseason games.
• Team Success: Likely picks up multiple rings, significantly boosting his legacy.
• Marketing & Fame: Would have benefited from the Yankee spotlight, perhaps turning into a household name and HOF candidate.

Downside:
• Defensive Concerns: Young was a below-average shortstop defensively, worse than Jeter in many metrics. Yankee fans and media may have scrutinized this more heavily.
• No “Captain” Mystique: Even in NY, it’s unclear whether Young would’ve developed the same aura as Jeter without the clutch postseason moments Jeter delivered.

Probable Outcome: Michael Young becomes a beloved, respected Yankee — probably a 3–4× champion, potential Hall of Fame fringe candidate with 2,500+ hits and greater WAR due to team context. Media profile rises dramatically.

⸻

⚾ Derek Jeter as a Career Ranger

Upside:
• Offensive Performance: Jeter’s consistency and leadership still stand out in any uniform. Likely remains a .300 hitter with 2,500–3,000 hits.
• Locker Room Leadership: Helps build a winning culture in Texas earlier; maybe accelerates the Rangers’ 2010–11 rise.

Downside:
• Less Postseason Success: Without the Yankees’ deep playoff runs, Jeter might only reach 1 or 2 postseasons, likely with no championships.
• Reduced Fame: Fewer clutch postseason moments = no “Mr. November,” no “Flip Play,” no 3,000th hit HR in Yankee Stadium.
• Media Profile: The Texas market offers less exposure; Jeter’s brand (and endorsements) would not be nearly as huge.

Probable Outcome: Jeter still becomes a star, probably a 10+ time All-Star, hits 3,000, but never wins a ring. Hall of Fame induction still likely — though not unanimous — and without the mythos.

Let me get this straight- Rings, all-star appearances, silver slugger, gold glove, intangibles, MVP voting, rookie of the year, longevity etc. mean nothing to you when evaluating a player. Jeter has all of that over Michael Young. All that matters to you is statistics, Jeter has that over Michael Young as well.

Apparently chat gpt hypothetical AKA fake stats giving Jeter worse stats than he actually had in his career along with less all-star appearances, less rings, less silver sluggers, less gold gloves etc. matters to you.

 

[Scoe]

Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say Travis Kelce is a bit overrated it doesn't mean he isn't an all time great TE btw. Rings and dating Taylor Swift sure helps your fame and kudos to him for that.

I just think Tony Gonzalez was better, if Gonzalez played with Mahomes he gets 1,500 yards a season. You can't really measure a TE by rings.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say Travis Kelce is a bit overrated it doesn't mean he isn't an all time great TE btw. Rings and dating Taylor Swift sure helps your fame and kudos to him for that.

I just think Tony Gonzalez was better, if Gonzalez played with Mahomes he gets 1,500 yards a season. You can't really measure a TE by rings.

Yeah. I agree. I would take Gates, Tony and Shannon over almost any tight end.
There are definitely athletes there on that team but there aren't enough defenders on the field to deal with mahomes and 4-5 other targets.
Kelce perfect example of definitely great but not to the level he gets stroked.

 

[Deepster]

Let me get this straight- Rings, all-star appearances, silver slugger, gold glove, intangibles, MVP voting, rookie of the year, longevity etc. mean nothing to you when evaluating a player. Jeter has all of that over Michael Young. All that matters to you is statistics, Jeter has that over Michael Young as well.

Apparently chat gpt hypothetical AKA fake stats giving Jeter worse stats than he actually had in his career along with less all-star appearances, less rings, less silver sluggers, less gold gloves etc. matters to you.

Hey. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say AI is smarter and less emotional than either of us on the topic. Don’t look at me.

 

[superjohn]

Hey. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say AI is smarter and less emotional than either of us on the topic. Don’t look at me.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and go off of Derek Jeter's actual real stats, rings, MVP voting, all-star appearances, silver slugger, gold gloves, rookie of the year, intangibles etc.

By the way, AI thinks Taurean Prince and Isaiah Whitehead are white basketball players.

 

[Excalibur]

Richard Sherman and Deion Sanders. Both would make some great highlight reel plays but they also seemed to get smoked more often than other top DBs of their times.

Uh, no.

 

[Scottzer]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and go off of Derek Jeter's actual real stats, rings, MVP voting, all-star appearances, silver slugger, gold gloves, rookie of the year, intangibles etc.

By the way, AI thinks Taurean Prince and Isaiah Whitehead are white basketball players.

Not to mention the notion that AI is unbiased. It depends upon how it was written, and the materials it sources from - which came with their own biases. And, there are many articles detailing how AI has learned to lie and deceive.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Uh, no.

Agree

There has never been another cover corner better than Deion. He wasn't a great tackler, or even an average one but his abilities terrified quarterbacks and receivers. I don't think there is a coach alive that would've taken anyone else over him at that position. In my opinion, if you're the first choice then you're the best.

 

[Lafayette]

The issue in this thread is a comparison of someone's stats and achievements of stats (plus some toss in awards, votings, etc) but that is fairly objective. But the comparison is to "how they are perceived" which is super subjective.

I mean there is a firm wall between the Jeter camps of over/under and I suspect we should use some ubiquitous ranking like the NFL has: NFL 100 where you click on position (CB) and see Deion is one of 7.

So to saying "there has never been another cover corner better than Deion..." I mean Haynes is up there for a reason as is Green, and if you don't remember Blount, he was the reason pass interference rules were changed. This all goes to show the public perception of Deion is one of the greatest CBs that ever played, just not the GOAT of CBs.

Get to QB and see Favre as others have said overrated, use the stats to prove that and sure, that's maybe the easiest.

For the NBA they don't do their own top list other than by stats, so this is a good list to base an argument on: 79 greatest NBA players ever: The HoopsHype list

 

[superjohn]

The issue in this thread is a comparison of someone's stats and achievements of stats (plus some toss in awards, votings, etc) but that is fairly objective. But the comparison is to "how they are perceived" which is super subjective.

I mean there is a firm wall between the Jeter camps of over/under and I suspect we should use some ubiquitous ranking like the NFL has: NFL 100 where you click on position (CB) and see Deion is one of 7.

So to saying "there has never been another cover corner better than Deion..." I mean Haynes is up there for a reason as is Green, and if you don't remember Blount, he was the reason pass interference rules were changed. This all goes to show the public perception of Deion is one of the greatest CBs that ever played, just not the GOAT of CBs.

Get to QB and see Favre as others have said overrated, use the stats to prove that and sure, that's maybe the easiest.

For the NBA they don't do their own top list other than by stats, so this is a good list to base an argument on: 79 greatest NBA players ever: The HoopsHype list

Any list that has Lebron over Jordan and Kobe over Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem is idiotic.

 

[Shamon30]

As a Mets fan, David Wright.

 

[Jaydumo20]

The issue in this thread is a comparison of someone's stats and achievements of stats (plus some toss in awards, votings, etc) but that is fairly objective. But the comparison is to "how they are perceived" which is super subjective.

I mean there is a firm wall between the Jeter camps of over/under and I suspect we should use some ubiquitous ranking like the NFL has: NFL 100 where you click on position (CB) and see Deion is one of 7.

So to saying "there has never been another cover corner better than Deion..." I mean Haynes is up there for a reason as is Green, and if you don't remember Blount, he was the reason pass interference rules were changed. This all goes to show the public perception of Deion is one of the greatest CBs that ever played, just not the GOAT of CBs.

Get to QB and see Favre as others have said overrated, use the stats to prove that and sure, that's maybe the easiest.

For the NBA they don't do their own top list other than by stats, so this is a good list to base an argument on: 79 greatest NBA players ever: The HoopsHype list

True. There is never gonna be an objective way to decide the best.
My older brother and I have this conversation a lot and the one thing that we land on, that comes closest, is something akin to the "eye test'"
There are only a handful of athletes where I can say that when watching them it so obvious that they are THE alpha on that field.
I'll use a controversial example:
Peyton vs Brady.
For some of the reasons you state, Id feel guilty saying brady isn't the best ever, but he didnt make my jaw drop like Peyton did. Peyton was undeniably so far above everyone else on the field in his prime. He made full staffs of coaches, and players look like lost little children. Ive never seen Brady display that level of dominance.

Other people I've seen be THAT visibly dominant where it's almost a joke:
JJ Watt, Randy Johnson, Jordan, Tiger, Reggie White, Shaq, and yes...Deion. I rarely, if ever, saw Rod Woodson just own the entire stadium.

Jerry Rice is other worldly but I've never seen him treat the game like his b**ch the way Randy Moss did. For me, that is what separates certain guys in that ratified air that they all inhabit.

 

[Mr. French]

Deion Sanders does not qualify for this. End of story.

 

[Mr. French]

If we include coaches, I'm saying Tom Izzo.

 

[Viet Vet]

Sidd Finch. Never threw a pitch in The Show.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Surprised nobody said Iverson. Volume chucker that made it to the finals one time in a crap east. If he was a white dude named Brad Smith he’d be remembered as a decent scorer from that era.

Yikes. Iverson was a great nba player. Imagine if he played in this era? You think SGA is tough. Iverson may be most unique player in modern era. 6-0, barely, and a dominant player.

 

[RJScootin]

Derek Jeter over-rated? Let’s take a look. A career .310 hitter with 3,465 hits placing him among the all-time leaders in hits, doubles, walks and runs scored. Totally clutch in the playoffs with a .308 average, 20 home runs and 111 runs scored. Played 20 seasons with the Yankees leading them to five World Series titles and personally earning 14 All-Star selections. Inducted into the baseball Hall of Fame on the first ballot ( unanimously, but for one vote).
Was he the best shortstop of all times—probably not due, in part, to his defensive shortcomings and the fact that he’d be competing with such SS greats as Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken, Jr. and others…but his offensive numbers, clutch performances and leadership qualities certainly ranks him high among them.
Over-rated! You gonna be kidding!!!!

Yes I agree he was great. Still think overrated when at times he was the 4th best SS in league when you had in their primes Arod, Nomar, and Tejada.

 

[dvegas]

The 1998-1999 Duke mens basketball team

 

[HooperScooper]

The 1998-1999 Duke mens basketball team

I don't think they were overrated. I think UConn was underrated.

 

[Travelman6]

David Coney
Dave Wells

 

[Scottzer]

I don't think they were overrated. I think UConn was underrated.

Does anybody know the Kenpom numbers for both teams? I don’t get Kenpom premium, but I’ve been really curious of the offensive and defensive efficiency ratings of both teams.

 

[Husky pride]

Yes I agree he was great. Still think overrated when at times he was the 4th best SS in league when you had in their primes Arod, Nomar, and Tejada.

Respect your opinion…but have to again disagree. Over the course of their careers ( a true measurement) Jeter had over a thousand more hits than Tejada and twice as many hits as Nomar. Unfortunately all of Arod’s numbers remain suspect …but I don’t deny he outshined Derek in a number of stats and certainly in offensive power and defense.

 

[storrsroars]

David Coney
Dave Wells

?

That's gotta be from Yankees fans doing the overrating. I don't know anyone who overrated Cone. He was a legit ace - dude had 7 seasons >5 bWAR. If anyone is arguing him for HoF (I'm not), it's because Sabathia got in with almost identical ERA, WHIP and WAR. Only difference is Sabathia got to 3000 Ks.

Wells was a solid 2-3 most of his career.

 

[Lafayette]

?

That's gotta be from Yankees fans doing the overrating. I don't know anyone who overrated Cone. He was a legit ace - dude had 7 seasons >5 bWAR. If anyone is arguing him for HoF (I'm not), it's because Sabathia got in with almost identical ERA, WHIP and WAR. Only difference is Sabathia got to 3000 Ks.

Wells was a solid 2-3 most of his career.

Wells is definitely overrated... his ERA in years with the Yankees clobbering HRs for run support gave inflated wins. There are pitchers with half his ERA and WHIP who could not get those wins on other teams.