Still great, but overrated athletes

[Jaydumo20]

Coop was at least a good defender. Bird said he was the toughest he faced.

Yes. That's true. They all had their thing. Very well constructed team

 

[Huskyforlife]

Surprised nobody said Iverson. Volume chucker that made it to the finals one time in a crap east. If he was a white dude named Brad Smith he’d be remembered as a decent scorer from that era.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Also Jeter is absolutely in the so overrated he’s underrated group now.

 

[Scoe]

I'm inclined to agree. For me it was when he dove for a ball in the stands in a relatively meaningless early season game and came up bloody. I remember thinking to myself I may never like this guy, but I definitely respect him.

That game actually turned into the best thing for the Sox. That was officially the end of Nomar in a Redsox uniform. Nomar never played in that game he never even got up from the bench he looked like he was checked out.

Nomar was a great Redsox but it was time to move on, Orlando Cabrera was a better fit for that 2004 Sox team.

 

[storrsroars]

Has Rudy Gay been mentioned yet?

 

[Scottzer]

Cal jr, Namath, Pete Rose. Not even great but, Anna Kournikova - so much hype over long ago.

Kournikova is only overrated if you thought she was.a 10z.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Cal jr, Namath, Pete Rose. Not even great but, Anna Kournikova - so much hype over long ago.

Well Anna was popular because she was incredibly hot but was a very good doubles player. Everyone wanted to see her play and it wasn’t because of her tennis ability. I don’t know anyone who claimed her to be an all-time great but she did crack the Top 10 in singles at some point I believe.

 

[Scottzer]

Well Anna was popular because she was incredibly hot but was a very good doubles player. Everyone wanted to see her play and it wasn’t because of her tennis ability. I don’t know anyone who claimed her to be an all-time great but she did crack the Top 10 in singles at some point I believe.

Eh, her eyes are too close together, and once you see that, it’s hard to unsee.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Eh, her eyes are too close together, and once you see that, it’s hard to unsee.

The quick and very specific reasoning for your opinion gave me a good laugh.

 

[Mr. French]

If Ray had been on those Lakers teams instead of Kobe they win 5 titles instead of 3. Better teammate, better spacing, better gravity, way more clutch, and he'd have committed defensively in a way he didn't really at that point in his career.

Never would've blown it up b/c of his ego. Just would've won titles.

I agree, I've thought these things for a long time. I know I'm biased, but that Seattle Ray was REALLY good, and Kobe was threatened by him. That version of Ray was very athletic and way better shooter than Kobe.

He would have averaged 21-23 instead of 27 and would have let Shaq be the star, and ultimately that would STILL make Ray underrated because that’s the kind of dude and player he is.

Kobe wanted the attention and credit and couldn’t wait to tell everyone how hard he worked and how good he was. Eventually he needed to be THE guy.

Also, I'm still bitter about 2010. Kobe should have 4 and Ray should have at least 3.

 

[yungdowork]

Has Rudy Gay been mentioned yet?

Rudy had a very good career but I could understand the argument that he never really made the leap.

Still, averaged over 10 a game 15 seasons in a row with a few 20ppg seasons sprinkled in and ended up 77th in career NBA games played.

 

[ColchVEGAS]

One thing I will give Jeter credit for, he played in the heart of the steroid era and he and Chipper Jones are probably the only ones I would absolutely be shocked about if it came out they were on the sauce too.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Brian Wilson, Beach Boys.

Had fan boys going crazy over him two weeks ago.

 

[storrsroars]

Livvy Dunn

At this point, Skenes is more overrated than Livvy. Guy just doesn't understand when your team is giving you one run, you can't give up two.

2.01 ERA, 0.93 WHIP
4-8 record

Loser!

 

[Deepster]

So you only look at statistics, I find that strange but it's your preference as a sports fan. You've brought up Michael Young several times in relation to Jeter. Michael Young was a great player with a lot of achievements. If you take rings, all-star appearances, MVP voting, silver slugger, gold glove, rookie of the year, longevity, memorable plays in baseball history, intangibles etc. out of it Jeter is significantly better than Michael Young statistically.

I asked ChatGPT, a non biased source, to outline what would have happened if Jeter and Young switched teams for their entire career.

This is a fascinating hypothetical: swapping Derek Jeter and Michael Young, two elite shortstops of their era, and imagining how their careers might have unfolded had they played for each other’s teams their entire careers. Let’s look at the comparison based on performance, context (team, media, postseason), and legacy, then analyze how the swap might have changed public and professional perception.

Swap Scenario: Jeter on the Rangers, Young on the Yankees

Michael Young as a Career Yankee

Upside:
• Bigger Stage: Playing in New York, Young’s consistent .300+ batting averages would’ve gained far more national attention.
• Postseason Exposure: With the Yankees’ perennial playoff appearances, Young would likely have appeared in 100+ postseason games.
• Team Success: Likely picks up multiple rings, significantly boosting his legacy.
• Marketing & Fame: Would have benefited from the Yankee spotlight, perhaps turning into a household name and HOF candidate.

Downside:
• Defensive Concerns: Young was a below-average shortstop defensively, worse than Jeter in many metrics. Yankee fans and media may have scrutinized this more heavily.
• No “Captain” Mystique: Even in NY, it’s unclear whether Young would’ve developed the same aura as Jeter without the clutch postseason moments Jeter delivered.

Probable Outcome: Michael Young becomes a beloved, respected Yankee — probably a 3–4× champion, potential Hall of Fame fringe candidate with 2,500+ hits and greater WAR due to team context. Media profile rises dramatically.

⸻

⚾ Derek Jeter as a Career Ranger

Upside:
• Offensive Performance: Jeter’s consistency and leadership still stand out in any uniform. Likely remains a .300 hitter with 2,500–3,000 hits.
• Locker Room Leadership: Helps build a winning culture in Texas earlier; maybe accelerates the Rangers’ 2010–11 rise.

Downside:
• Less Postseason Success: Without the Yankees’ deep playoff runs, Jeter might only reach 1 or 2 postseasons, likely with no championships.
• Reduced Fame: Fewer clutch postseason moments = no “Mr. November,” no “Flip Play,” no 3,000th hit HR in Yankee Stadium.
• Media Profile: The Texas market offers less exposure; Jeter’s brand (and endorsements) would not be nearly as huge.

Probable Outcome: Jeter still becomes a star, probably a 10+ time All-Star, hits 3,000, but never wins a ring. Hall of Fame induction still likely — though not unanimous — and without the mythos.

 

[formerlurker]

Jerry Rogers is the most overrated QB ever. Cheated and still lost.

Had a great head of hair though.

 

[storrsroars]

Jerry Rogers is the most overrated QB ever. Cheated and still lost.

Had a great head of hair though.

Dennis Miller wouldn't even get that reference!

 

[dennismenace]

All athletes.

Yogi Berra has 10 rings and 18 all star appearances. How often do you ever hear about how great he was?
Carl Yazstremski (also one of the most overrated players ever) has 18 all star appearances as well. So what?
Personally? I think the gold glove is flawed, somewhat of a popularity contest in ways and could/should be restructured.
Silver Slugger is voted on by coaches and players. Nothing statistical.
Intangibles? I can go out on a limb and say you have intangibles. It's something used when you can't make a statistical argument.

I'm a numbers guy. I won't sit and nod yes when Joe MessageBoard says "I can just tell he's good".

I do think MVP voting has merit, but I'll throw this one out there and you can comment on it.

Below is Jeter and Michael Young in 2009. Jeter was 3rd in MVP voting, Young was 16th. You see that big a disparity between the two seasons?

Season	Age	Team	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
2009	35	NYY	153	716	634	107	212	27	1	18	66	30	5	72	90	0.334	0.406	0.465	0.871
2009	32	TEX	135	593	541	76	174	36	2	22	68	8	3	47	90	0.322	0.374	0.518	0.892

Also:
Yogi Berra was a three time MVP as a catcher.

Ultimate testimony by a Dodger (can't remember who) " Of all the Yankee greats like Mantle, DiMaggio etc. it wasn't them that we most feared; it was Berra in clutch situations"

 

[dennismenace]

Jerome Bettis, Big Ben, Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith I think Michael Irvin was underrated.

Emmitt Smith overrated?

"What records does Emmett Smith still hold?

• Most career rushing yards: 18,355.
• Most career rushing touchdowns: 164.
• Most career rushing attempts: 4,409.

NFC championship game against NY Giants

I hate the Cowboys but this was the greatest sports performance in one game I ever saw:

10 games that defined Emmitt Smith's Cowboys career, on his birthday

Emmitt Smith celebrates his 51st birthday on Friday. Born in Pensacola, Florida, the son of Mary J. Smith and Emmitt James Smith Jr. attended Escambia High School. A prolific runner from an early a…

cowboyswire.usatoday.com

 

[Husky pride]

Derek Jeter

Derek Jeter over-rated? Let’s take a look. A career .310 hitter with 3,465 hits placing him among the all-time leaders in hits, doubles, walks and runs scored. Totally clutch in the playoffs with a .308 average, 20 home runs and 111 runs scored. Played 20 seasons with the Yankees leading them to five World Series titles and personally earning 14 All-Star selections. Inducted into the baseball Hall of Fame on the first ballot ( unanimously, but for one vote).
Was he the best shortstop of all times—probably not due, in part, to his defensive shortcomings and the fact that he’d be competing with such SS greats as Honus Wagner, Cal Ripken, Jr. and others…but his offensive numbers, clutch performances and leadership qualities certainly ranks him high among them.
Over-rated! You gonna be kidding!!!!

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I’ll throw Tony Gwynn into the mix. Great contact hitter and very good offensive player throughout his career. That said, his value was really depressed by him being a pretty bad defender for a good chunk of his career. Started off okay there (definitely not GG worthy but those were partially due to his hitting prowess) and then fell off quickly. Became a real liability later in his career.

I think he gets talked about as an all-time great and he’s waaay far down that list.

 

[TroyHall98]

Terrell Davis—Benefitted immensely from Mike Shanahan’s offensive line blocking system.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Terrell Davis—Benefitted immensely from Mike Shanahan’s offensive line blocking system.

They had other running backs under that system that all did well, to your point but nowhere near what TD did.
There are about 5 RBs in history who had his combo of power, speed, cutting ability and quickness. Also his lateral change of direction in the open field defied gravity and had nothing to do with the offensive line.

*I'm a Broncos fan so that makes me biased but it also makes me an expert.

 

[Fishy]

Kobe. Carmelo Anthony. Both are considered an orbit better than they actually were.

I’d put Joe Namath up there, but he wasn’t great.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

They had other running backs under that system that all did well, to your point but nowhere near what TD did.
There are about 5 RBs in history who had his combo of power, speed, cutting ability and quickness. Also his lateral change of direction in the open field defied gravity and had nothing to do with the offensive line.

*I'm a Broncos fan so that makes me biased but it also makes me an expert.

A lot like Arian Foster with the Texans, their success wasn’t just because of the system. Their talents aligned with what was needed from that system (a lot like someone of the linemen that played in front of them). For sure they wouldn’t have been as successful elsewhere, but also plenty of other RBs weren’t nearly that successful in those systems either.