Stick with zone from start of games | The Boneyard

Stick with zone from start of games

Scrappy3

Scrappy3

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We need to keep the intensity in games up from minute 1.
There was a bunch of positives today and I choose to look that way.
We are having huge problems dealing with picks in man to man. Of course u need to sprinkle in man— but I think we can get back on path playing 2/3 of the game in a full court zone. We have the depth and personnel to run it and I think it works well for us.
In the man we just get toasted w the other team going through the 4 man and guards just getting shots that are comfortable
We have energy issues— the full court zone defense ratchets up that energy and we seem to play with more flow on offense as well
Horrible first half but some rainbow sightings past the clouds.
 
Totally agree. If our advantage is depth, then play to it. Our man to man is routinely getting shredded. If we played that D tonight against SH and St J we’d have 2 less losses.
 
Scrappy3 said:
We need to keep the intensity in games up from minute 1.
There was a bunch of positives today and I choose to look that way.
We are having huge problems dealing with picks in man to man. Of course u need to sprinkle in man— but I think we can get back on path playing 2/3 of the game in a full court zone. We have the depth and personnel to run it and I think it works well for us.
In the man we just get toasted w the other team going through the 4 man and guards just getting shots that are comfortable
We have energy issues— the full court zone defense ratchets up that energy and we seem to play with more flow on offense as well
Horrible first half but some rainbow sightings past the clouds.m
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August_West said:
Oh dear lord. So I guess we aren’t tough?
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Where did he say we aren’t tough?? He said our man to man D hasn’t been good. Are you disputing that?? Because if you are, you need to have your eyes checked.
 
Our most glaring weakness when Clingan isn't in the game is a rim protector and our bigs are just not very good on help defense. So, when our perimeter defender gets beaten and/or someone knifes through the lane (which happens a lot) we are totally exposed to easy baskets. I think the zone is a must have until our man to man defense gets better (might not happen this year).
 
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August_West said:
Oh dear lord. So I guess we aren’t tough?
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It’s the way to play for us. Nothi
August_West said:
Oh dear lord. So I guess we aren’t tough?
Expand ...
August_West said:
Oh dear lord. So I guess we aren’t tough?
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Nothing about toughness
We play it well
The only goal is to win—I think we saw the Avenue
We have seen lack of energy we have seen flaw in man to man— let’s stock with what works. Then from time to time go man. Ling time ago JC used the 3/4 press to win
 
I like that we gave them multiple looks. But I do not think we necessarily played the zone that well. Xavier scored 43 points in the second half!
 
So how do you explain being up by 14 at halftime and losing?
 
Xavier is a top 5 offensive team in the country and they made 50% of their 3s against us (and for much of the game it was even higher).

The zone is a band-aid. It's confusing until the team figures it out. We switched the zone at one point to continue confusing them. But again, it's a band-aid. Eventually they will figure it out.
 
auror said:
Xavier is a top 5 offensive team in the country and they made 50% of their 3s against us (and for much of the game it was even higher).

The zone is a band-aid. It's confusing until the team figures it out. We switched the zone at one point to continue confusing them. But again, it's a band-aid. Eventually they will figure it out.
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Its not a band aid but it should be in UConn's repertoire. They actually used it well mixing up the 2-3 and the 1-3-1 with man to man. Any time the other team get on a roll we should be doing it.

Also the full court pressure was another good idea to change the tone of the game.

If we had been doing that in the first half maybe the team wouldn't had dug a 17 point hole.
 
.-.
uconngb said:
Where did he say we aren’t tough?? He said our man to man D hasn’t been good. Are you disputing that?? Because if you are, you need to have your eyes checked.
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No It had nothing to do with the poster. It was kinda sarcastic comment on my behalf because Hurley prefers to not play zone and considers great man to man D a sign of toughness. So by going zone I think he is conceding that we arent tough. It was a throwaway comment. I dont mind switching stuff up when things arent working.
 
I was at last nights , what a great experience, the crowd definitely did its part.
Its pretty clear how our half -court defense gets exploited. Quick guards get by our bigger guards with ease. The help that comes or not comes, leads to wide open shots inside or at the three line.
Sanogo is really bad at this. He either doesn't pick up the driver or he gets there late and leaves his man wide open.
The zone with AJ at the top definitely slowed them down, but when they penetrated, Nunje had wide open looks. Clingan, not Sanogo, should be the back of any zone we play.
 
my2cents said:
I was at last nights , what a great experience, the crowd definitely did its part.
Its pretty clear how our half -court defense gets exploited. Quick guards get by our bigger guards with ease. The help that comes or not comes, leads to wide open shots inside or at the three line.
Sanogo is really bad at this. He either doesn't pick up the driver or he gets there late and leaves his man wide open.
The zone with AJ at the top definitely slowed them down, but when they penetrated, Nunje had wide open looks. Clingan, not Sanogo, should be the back of any zone we play.
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A lot of Clingen’s shortcomings were exposed last night.
 
Scrappy3 said:
We need to keep the intensity in games up from minute 1.
There was a bunch of positives today and I choose to look that way.
We are having huge problems dealing with picks in man to man. Of course u need to sprinkle in man— but I think we can get back on path playing 2/3 of the game in a full court zone. We have the depth and personnel to run it and I think it works well for us.
In the man we just get toasted w the other team going through the 4 man and guards just getting shots that are comfortable
We have energy issues— the full court zone defense ratchets up that energy and we seem to play with more flow on offense as well
Horrible first half but some rainbow sightings past the clouds.
Expand ...

That was exactly my takeaway on last night’s game, Scrappy. It was like 2 different teams out there, first and second halves. It’s the team that was out there in the 2nd half that I want to see more of. If they play the rest of the season like they did in the 2nd half, then the sky’s the limit for this team
 
my2cents said:
Sanogo is really bad at this. He either doesn't pick up the driver or he gets there late and leaves his man wide open.
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Yes, excellent recognition, I commented a few days ago about his interior help defense. It is not good. At all. He is a very capable one on one low post defender, but his interior help recognition and reactions really hurt us at times.
 
A lot of people complained about the high hedge earlier in the year. We stopped doing it, and all of a sudden our man to man defense is awful and we can't stop penetration. Wonder if there's any correlation?
 
.-.
August_West said:
No It had nothing to do with the poster. It was kinda sarcastic comment on my behalf because Hurley prefers to not play zone and considers great man to man D a sign of toughness. So by going zone I think he is conceding that we arent tough. It was a throwaway comment. I dont mind switching stuff up when things arent working.
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Aside from the Center position, we are undersized in terms of weight/strength at 2-4. Newton is bigger than most PGs, but I keep looking at the arms and shoulders on everyone we play, and our guys are slight. Alleyne is one of the exceptions. Karaban will fix that by next year most likely. Jackson though, with all his quickness and agility, gets overpowered quite easily. He guards with his hands, gambling for steals. On offense, Jackson avoids contact and doesn't take the ball strong, choosing to either shoot too early (long bank, floater) or pass. Hawk was aggressive going inside on offense for a change and that was welcome, but he still gets run over by some bigger guards.

We've got nobody who really matches up with a guy like Jerome Hunter or Bryce Hopkins. I think Stewart is going to get some run next year at SF.
 
August_West said:
No It had nothing to do with the poster. It was kinda sarcastic comment on my behalf because Hurley prefers to not play zone and considers great man to man D a sign of toughness. So by going zone I think he is conceding that we arent tough. It was a throwaway comment. I dont mind switching stuff up when things arent working.
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I consider great man to man as a sign of toughness too. We don't play great man to man. We don't play good man to man. The players are what we have.....he needs to adapt to what he has vs the other way around. No shame in doing so, you need to do what it takes to win. If we played that zone last night against SH and St J, we won both of those games. I dare say, with ease. Instead, two awful losses.

This late in the season, it should be obvious what we do and don't do well. You would like to think our coach, who actually is getting paid to do this, would recognize it as well.
 
So many questions about that 2nd half offense.

2nd half they played great but was it just because Hawkins got very hot and scored 19 points in 7 minutes? Is that sustainable? Or was it the crowd helped carry them? Can Newton continue to score like that or will he go back to 5 shot games? Will we go back to 4 out and feed Sanogo and watch him not pass out of double teams? Can we get anything from our bench besides 5 points?
 
Giddyup5 said:
I like that we gave them multiple looks. But I do not think we necessarily played the zone that well. Xavier scored 43 points in the second half!
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How many points Xavier scored in the 2nd half has nothing to do with it. Unlike other sports, offense & defense are integrated in basketball. The zones started our offense and completely changed the flow of the game. The zones changed the tempo at which the game was played, so more points were scored by both teams in the 2nd half. It was not the tempo that Xavier wanted to play at.
 
Clingan needs to play in the paint. Hurley had him above the foul line in the zone. He wasn't in the right position to protect the rim or get rebounds, and Diarra was out of his element on the back line. Sanogo was quick enough to play at the foul line and impact defensively, but was also then in bad position at the boards which might be an acceptable tradeoff at times. With Clingan you are negating all his strengths by playing him the same way. Guys will get by him, then what. Play the guy deep in the post. Play Donovan deep in the post. Play Clingan deep in the post. Geez. I'm begging.

I do agree with certain positive observations. The full court trapping zone in a mix of formats seems like something we should employ. Newton, Jackson, Hawkins, and Karaban, played it well. Diarra and Alleyne fit into that style well. Kudos to our man to man coach for implementing it, and staying for a long stretch with the guys that were doing well rather than make autopilot substitutions. We weren't settling back into a 2/3 zone, the action up top was causing Xavier to initiate offense very high. I thought that was key.

In the second half Jackson hesitated on an open 3 point shot, and gave the ball up to Hawkins who hit it. Where was the staff to reign in Jackson after the first couple of misses early in the game? Why stay with lineups that aren't working and digging a hole? Stick in Joey that needs to be guarded, and suddenly you should be able to get the ball inside. Cold streak or not, I'll take my chances with Joey if they want to let him be open.

We just have to use important guys right. Jackson in full court havoc pressure, Clingan at the rim. Adama in deep post position.

Hurley needs to read the game earlier. If nobody can make a shot, our guards can't stay in front of their men, and we can't get the ball to Sanogo in the right positions, he has to shake things up before we get behind by double digits. He can't just put the first 6 to 8 minutes on autopilot.

Lastly, Samson Johnson must clearly not be ready. Never even given a look.

Thanks for the therapy session. What do I owe you?
 
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CTFAN4LIFE said:
Our most glaring weakness when Clingan isn't in the game is a rim protector and our bigs are just not very good on help defense. So, when our perimeter defender gets beaten and/or someone knifes through the lane (which happens a lot) we are totally exposed to easy baskets. I think the zone is a must have until our man to man defense gets better (might not happen this year).
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Sanogo’s defense has gone downhill. And it’s not about the high hedge or guarding the perimeter…his defense around the basket has been very inconsistent. Sometimes he’s not putting his hands up to contest. He’s petrified of fouling
 
Every team we play has been driving the lane for easy baskets and fouls. Except for Clingan, we seem to have no help-defense, and poor blocking out, resulting in missed rebounds. I think Coach needs to make some changes in his defensive strategy.

Also, we need to be a running and pressing team. Running because our offense isn't good enough in a halfcourt game. It also does no good to half bench depth if you don't try to wear down your opponent. We need to force the pace.
 
Wow. We have reached the point in this panic where our fans want us to be Syracuse. This is officially rock-bottom.
 
uconngb said:
he needs to adapt to what he has vs the other way around. No shame in doing so, you need to do what it takes to win. If we played that zone last night against SH and St J, we won both of those games. I dare say, with ease. Instead, two awful losses.
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THIS!

He needs to get beyond this thought that playing zone is a failure. Losing is a failure. Winning by mixing in a zone is success
 
auror said:
Xavier is a top 5 offensive team in the country and they made 50% of their 3s against us (and for much of the game it was even higher).

The zone is a band-aid. It's confusing until the team figures it out. We switched the zone at one point to continue confusing them. But again, it's a band-aid. Eventually they will figure it out.
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Exactly, zone was effective to change the game up, but a team that can shoot 3s like Xavier and has big men that can rebound effectively would’ve absolutely tore up the zone if we played it all game.
 
Ricker said:
Where was the staff to reign in Jackson after the first couple of misses early in the game?
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Hurley said in post game conference that Jackson took the bait. No way should Jackson take that many shots to start a game. After the first foul by Jone at the 17:50 mark Hurley should have called a timeout or subbed out Jackson. He was already 0-4 and you can see Xavier strategy double Sanogo and make Jackson shoot regardless where he is on the court just let him shoot. A timeout and a counter in-game adjustment needs to be made. It was only 5-0 at that point.

By the 16 under timeout we were down 9-0 and were 0-10 from the field and Jackson took 5 more shots.

I admit this is Monday Morning QBing and 5-0 is till too close to burn a timeout but something needed to be done.
 
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